The Things I Hate, Part One: Dragon Age II

Recommended Videos

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
Well, those of that know me (and not a one of you should) know that I absolutely love the Dragon Age series. Yet I have an absolute, undeniable loathing of Dragon Age II. It's a very unusual circumstance for me. There're plenty of games I don?t like, or don?t play, but there isn?t really a game I can say that absolutely hate to this degree.

Now, most pro reviewers have nothing but wonderful things to say about it, and users have reactions ranging from mediocre to great. I think I might actually stand alone when I say that this is one of the worst RPGs I?ve ever picked up, and it?s from Bioware, no less!

In order to properly review the sequel, I have to tell you about my experience with the first. It?s intrinsic to understand why I absolutely loathe the sequel.

Since this is definitely TL;DR, I?ve sectioned it out for ease of reading.

Dragon Age was my first Bioware RPG. I fell in love with it. People criticize it for a number of reasons, but I really have few bad things to say about. Some things could work better than others, but my love for it transforms the entire game into a sacred object deserving of worship and all who disagree should die in a fire, or something.

The story - or rather, the character design - is what really sets Dragon Age apart from the crowd. The fact that the protagonist is completely silent is important to this point, so remember it.

As per Bioware standard, the dialogue options consist of a Good, Neutral, Evil standard, but(!) the fact that there is no voice acting - none at all - leaves every word up for interpretation. I, the player, am immersed so much more thanks to the ability to imagine the delivery, the intent, of each statement. The options themselves are important, because many are constructed in a way to establish the protagonist as a character in the world itself, not just a window through which the player experiences the world.

The protagonist is able to talk about views on life, love, family, his mother, his feelings - essentially making him a person unto himself. Now, if you're like me, you play your character as close to yourself as possible. The moral choices are often your own. The character build is often similar to yourself.

This is also very, very important.

Most important to making the game wonderfully awesome, gift from God, purpose for living, is the relationship with the supporting cast. Because the principle character is such a living being in his own right his interactions with the others make them feel like real people too. I actually grew to like my companions, almost counting them as actual friends and family.

The romances, always the most important of a Bioware game, were also exquisite. Instead of a few words and a quest to jump in bed, these people had actual, realistic reactions to love and sex. Of the four possible love interests, one stood out the most to me. I won?t say who because those that haven?t played will be spoiled for the end.

Now, a certain event occurs with this character making the sweet romance a tragic affair. I was heartbroken. It haunted me for weeks. The game was no longer the tale of a warrior looking to thwart evil, but was the tragedy of a single man.

I awaited with bated breath for the sequel, soaking up every scrap of information, every possible lead in the hopes of finding something - something - that would give me the slightest hint of what was to come. And then I got the sequel.

Imagine my disappointment to discover that my beloved character, the man who I had come to know as a best friend and trusted companion, would not be making an appearance in the sequel. Instead, you would play as some nobody named Hawke, in some city called Kirkwall that gets mentioned one time in the entirety of Dragon Age.

The immediately dangling plot threads go unresolved, and the aftereffects of the first game get ignored.

Hawke is voiced - immediately destroying immersion. Let me tell you, Hawke - whether you play as Nice!Hawke, Snark!Hawke or Mean!Hawke - is a complete asshole. He?s either a pussy goody two-shoes, a sarcastic little prick or a regular doucher. He also has to be a human being. That?s right, folks. Where once you were allowed to be one of three races ? with six distinct Origins - now you get one race and the same introduction every fucking time. And that really jerks my dick. The first was called Dragon Age: Origins. Because of the six Origins. You know, the one truly unique aspect of the game that all reviews agreed set it apart from every other fantasy RPG.

And there's something very blase about playing as this character. I hate him. I don?t care about him, and I don?t care about his ?journey?. I wanted my Warden back, able to adventure and solve all the hanging threads that he didn?t get to tie up. I wanted to see my choices have consequences, as I was promised.

Hawke's not likeable, he?s not cool, and he just sucks to be saddled with throughout the course of a twenty hour game.

And if that number sounds shockingly low to you, especially for a Bioware RPG, don't be alarmed. It's the actual length of time it took me to beat the game. Dragon Age took me eighty or so hours to beat the main game and the expansion.

'Course, the game might be longer. I don't really know. I haven't been able to play it more than once (well, once and a half, noted below) because it's such a God damn chore. Playing that game feels like poking yourself with a butter knife. It doesn't hurt, but who the fuck would want to do that?

As I said, being stuck with such a shitty character sucks, but the game goes to extra lengths to make itself as horrible an experience as it can.

Unlike regular shitty games, Dragon Age II doesn?t have shitty controls or bad graphics. No, that would be too easy! Dragon Age II goes out of its way to be twenty hours of a fucking fetch quest! Seriously.
I?ve always been a huge proponent of story in games, and any game that doesn't have a solid story gets a low grade from me, but Dragon Age is astonishing for being a linear RPG that doesn?t have a story.

Superficially, it's about the shitty Hawke family going to Kirkwall to escape the events of the first game (pussies) and eventually becoming one of the most prominent and influential families in the city-state. However, one might be surprised to hear that, since the game seems to be more about doing fuck-all because a bunch of whiny losers ask you to.

?But wait!? you might say. ?That?s an RPG staple!?

Indeed it is, good man! However, Dragon Age II seems almost self-aware. Like, it might actually be good if they called it a deconstruction of the standard RPG story. But it's not, and it isn't.

The game is done in a three-act structure, with the first act being about getting money. Seriously. You have to get a set amount of money to proceed ahead. And not in a ?bribe the gate guard? kind of way. The quest is literally, actually, to get enough money to proceed.

To do this, the game awkwardly shoves a bunch of story-related quests in your face. I find that previous statement to be disturbingly ironic because Dragon Age II lacks a real story, and these quests really are a red light.

You have to variously handle a few low-key political goings-on in the game, without actually knowing that these are at all important to anything except for the ?Main Quest? tab in the journal. Fuck it.
Without spoiling the game for anyone sadomasochistic enough to play it, the game reaches a climax you don't see coming (not in a good way) with bad guys you won't meet until past the halfway point of the game, and lead to a conclusion that concludes nothing, and the most obnoxious cliffhanger I?ve ever seen. Ever. In the history of mankind.

What's worse, several of your companions appear only in the first section and you can miss them totally because the game doesn't deign to even hint that they are found here and only here (in fact, I played half way through the game before discovering that I?d missed two, and I presume you can miss a third).

Further, the developers promised that your actions in the first game would carry over. You can import your save, or choose one of three pre-defined states. But they really only make a token attempt at it. A few characters make return appearances (though I only ran across one), a few events reference events in the first, and two characters return regardless if they died in the last game.

Now, if this wasn't bullshit enough, there's the characters themselves.

You have your siblings Bethany and Carver. Both of them suck. One dies at the beginning depending on your class and that, I find, is the shittiest thing I've ever seen in a game. Your sibling dies presumably so you don?t have too many of one class or the other, but I could give a fuck.

It comes within ten minutes of starting the game and is so random that I couldn't be bothered to care.
To add, there's not much grieving done over your sibling, but that?s something I'll get to later.

The characters as a whole suck. Their writing, their attitudes, their interactions, all suck. The first was game was so good because each character had a distinct, clear personality that fit into a number of moral archetypes. I suppose Bioware didn't want a copy-paste of those characters, but when you've covered such a broad range of personalities and accompanying moralities, how exactly do write characters for a game that doesn't touch upon any of those? Apparently, you can't.

Each of them is horrible in their own special way, and four of them are bang-able. I?ll break them down for ease of access.

Merrill: An elf that appeared as a brief companion in the first game for the Dalish Origin. She's now completely retooled to fit in with the new elf design Bioware is going for and has a Welsh accent to boot. Fuck her (and that?s even an option). She sucks. She's supposed to be a naive do-good mage that stands apart from other mages by being a dreaded blood mage that thinks no bad end can come of dealing with demons.

Of course, Bioware takes the ?naive young girl? and runs with it to the fucking moon. She actually manages to border on mental retardation as opposed to sweetly daft. There were so many instances where I was begging for her to just shut the fuck up. Having a romantic relationship with her feels like sexually abusing a mentally handicapped girl (Ooh, a rape joke?).

Isabella: The ?bad girl? of this edition. She's a pirate lady you can sleep with in the first game, and the writers at Bioware decided that this should be her dominate trait. Seriously, they figured that ?total whore? would be her default mode. Everything she says is laced with innuendo or some reference to past sexual conquests. You can even stumble into a conversation where she receives magical treatment for an STD. I don't know why you would want to, but you can go ahead and contract syphilis with her.

Anders: This guy was advertized as a returning favorite from Dragon Age: Awakening. I suppose the character's name is the same, but the personality is not at all what it was. He's gone from being a comic-relief type to a noisy little *****. And not in a character development kind of way, but in a whiny punk ass ***** kind of way. You can mount his staff, too, if you're so inclined. Don't know why you would be.

He is part of my list of bullshit-isms. At the end of my Awakenings game, the one I imported, Anders had found a home in the Grey Wardens and was content to be a Warden for the rest of his life. Except, now he apparently said fuck it and decided he hates the Grey Wardens and only cares about bitching and moaning about mages. Do note, he can die at the end of Awakening and still comes back.

Fenris: Another elf, this one a warrior. He was a Tivinter slave so has a gripe against slavers and mages. Emo, whiny and a total douche. You can sleep with him, if you can get around the ?I'm about to cry but I'm trying so hard to be badass? thing he's got.

Aveline: You run into her and her soon-to-be dead husband early in the game. She sticks around with you because? well? why the fuck not? She seems to be the most schizophrenic of all the characters; being a guard she sometimes wants you to make only lawful good decisions. Unless she doesn't. But, fuck her, right?

No, you can't. There's some flirtation, but it flies over her head which I guess was meant to be funny or something.

Varric: A dwarf (one of the only ones in the game) and a rogue. He narrates the story - and that one made me laugh. His ?thing? is that he likes telling stories and is some sort of criminal mastermind. He randomly pops into your life at the game's beginning and you're anchored with him for the rest of the journey. I never was able to care about him, since he's just there for so long during. At least he's inoffensive. The fucker.

Carver/Bethany: Your siblings. A warrior and a mage, respectively, who die if you play as the same class (Carver still dies if you're a rogue). Of course, it doesn't really matter since something will happen at the end of the first act that deprives you of them for the rest of the game.

Carver is a major douche bag who'll resent you for the entire game no matter how you relate to him. Fuck him, anyways.

Bethany is? around. She's not very defined. Her personality is nice enough that she isn't a psycho *****, but her morals are flexible enough to let you be a prick. And you will want to be a prick to your ungrateful fucking siblings.

Unfortunately (for some) you can't bang her.

One will die no matter what, and you can't really say anything about it except for one or two circumstances. Makes the whole ?dying sibling? thing worthless.

Sebastian: He's a DLC only character and sucks. You get a quest or two from him, and he'll lecture you about the local god and why you suck for making shady decisions. If you're a woman, you can have a chaste fling with him, but he's too big a wuss to whip it out like every other man in the game.

The game's major fault is the interaction with the characters. While in the first game you could stop and talk to your companions at any time, and have a variety of conversations and interactions. You can just pause a moment to kiss your lover before delving into the deep dark, have a brief discussion about philosophy, or learn something new and unique about them.

In Dragon Age II, you get a couple conversations stretched over the course of six years. If you try to talk to them when they don't ?feel? like it, you get a canned response. All the characters in Dragon Age were centrally located at the camp and you could explore every conversation branch without ever taking them out (which is good if you have a ?set? party). In the shitty-ass fucking sequel, you have to go to that character's house in the city to talk to them, which is a real hassle if you don?t even in like the prick to begin with. And they don't always have anything worth saying, so you might go way the fuck out of your way to discover, oh shit, they have nothing to say!

Fuck you, game!

The game trades Dragon Age's approval mechanic (wherein you gain ?relationship points? for saying and doing things characters like, or giving them gifts) for a friendship/rivalry mechanic. This, I'll admit, could have been really cool. But of course this game has to fuck that up.

The first game's approval mechanic was only limited in that you had to agree with that character's point of view to gain the points, be able to unlock new conversation branches, and give them a boost to abilities. The friendship/rivalry was supposed to let the player roleplay effectively by giving each character a reaction to the player's actions. This could be in the form of approval (friendship) or disapproval (rivalry). This would lead to a ?climax? with each character as they either reaffirmed their belief in you, or confronted you about your actions.

As I said, the game fucks it up hard.

You have to play the game as something of a one-dimensional character in order to ?max out? friendship or rivalry and get the associated quests and bonuses. This means that if you try to make a complex individual (like, you know, a person) you'll constantly straddle friendship/rivalry with at least a few characters, making some scenarios based entirely upon who you want to like you.

This is a very bad thing because Dragon Age had a silent protagonist, making every statement something ambiguous. The words might be very nice and endearing to a character I like, but I was really lying to their face to manipulate them. Dragon Age II's voice acting throws that all out, but that part comes next.

One cool thing (and I think this is why the characters suck in so many other regards) is that many of your interactions with NPCs elicit responses from your companions, dependent on who's with you. Trying to fool a guard with Merrill causes her to naively reveal your deception. Trying to let a criminal pass gets you a hearty reprimand from Aveline. But then you get rivalry for no fucking reason, so fuck that up its stupid ass.

Now, you can't, cannot, are not allowed to change your companions' armor. That's right. You get to find loads of armor and equipment that are worth fuck-all to you because only you can wear it anyways.

Meaning Mage!Hawke will find himself with a bunch of shitty armor he can't use, because mages get the best use out of robes. Instead, the game upgrades your companions' armor for you based on relationship stats and accompanying quests, meaning you have to play their little psychotic game of Hawke's Many Personalities to get them end-game ready. Fuck you, man!

The romances are desperately hollow.

This comes in clash with the first game's romances, where two were directly involved in the main plot (with the potential to change the entire fucking ending for some of us) and the other two were powerful in their own way.

Four characters can be wooed by either gender (a fifth can be semi-loved by a woman) and all of them play out exactly the same way. You flirt a couple times and two years later knock boots, and then you say that you love them at the end.

Two of the romances are semi-related to the plot, but not in any way that matters.

Possibly the worst aspect of the romance system is its total lack of depth. You can tell your love interest once in the entire game that you love them, and that's at the very end of the game! Meaning that you were something like fuck buddies throughout the entire game. Your partner is supposed to move in with you, too, after you copulate the first time, but they never do.

I just? really have very little to say about that because there's just so little there to speak of. It?s almost like Bioware knew that they had to toss it in somewhere. It's very disappointing when one particular romance in the first game defined the whole experience for me.

I emphasized the dialogue for a very particular reason. As I said, a silent protagonist allows for such ambiguity that in turn allows for such immersion that makes the game a real character-driven story.

Bioware, I guess, said ?fuck you? to that and hired a shitty pair of voice actors. Male!Hawke?s speech sounds as disgustingly uninterested as one could possibly be (and indeed as uninterested I was playing the shitty game) and has a delivery that could only be described as ?standard fantasy British voice?.

Female!Hawke is a little more emotive, but the game sucks so she can fuck off.

You have three choices: Nice, Sarcastic, Mean. Sometimes you have a fourth that allows for questioning or a fifth that?s dependent on your present companions, class, previous actions, whatever. But the fact that each option, in the vein of Mass Effect, is so set-in-stone ruins the entire game. You can't play a deep, thoughtful, character with a variety of motivations and desires anymore.

Whereas in Dragon Age, I could play the game as a good-hearted warrior looking to complete his duty, with some occasional ruthless streaks brought on by the dire situation, Dragon Age II forces you to either play straight as one personality, or seem like a total maniac. You can open a conversation with a sarcastic quip, slide into a promise to provide selfless aid, and tack on a desire to kill all life and no one blinks an eye.

It reminds me of Oblivion's persuade system, where apparently everyone in Cyrodiil communicates via joking, threatening, bragging and complimenting without missing a beat.

I played through as a sarcastic Hawke. And I grew to hate her. She started to come across as juvenile ***** that couldn't take any situation seriously. And while you might think ?that's your fault for clicking sarcastic every time? you have to understand that the only thing ambiguous about this shitty fucking system is the one-word blurb for each statement. The game would have been better off with just using the little symbols.

Consider the phrase ?Okay?. You can say it in a variety of ways, right? Depending on what you want it to mean?

In Hawke's mind, ?okay? apparently means ?You know I'll do it for you?.

To which I reply, ?*****, you don't even know him!?

That continues throughout the entire fucking God damn game! That's what makes Hawke a complete fucking tosser!

I could have just clicked at fucking random and gotten the same fucking experience! This makes interacting with your companions something like a game show. You have to pick what you think they'll respond to and hope you get the desired outcome.

At least the game has the decency to mark the options that begin and end romances, not that the resultant dialogue sounds anything like it.

Some dialogue trees feel like mine fields, littered with vaguely marked options that will give you rivalry and friendship in varying amounts, or (in the case of that fuckwit Anders) try to pressure you into sleeping with your companions. Apparently Anders was the dev's choice for romance.

I have a load more of complaints about this steaming pile of dragon shit, but this review has already gotten away from me. I'm more than willing to discuss further, if anyone feels like, but I truly don't think Dragon Age II has any redeeming qualities, and it's actually soured both Bioware and the Dragon Age Franchise to me such that haven't played either game since finishing this fucknut.
 

Slowpool

New member
Jan 19, 2011
168
0
0
It's a different game, with different priorities. Stop thinking of it as a sequel, and more of a continuation of setting (the main character of the series, according to the devs, is Thedas, not any single person). The only things that I personally thought were bad were the constant waves of enemies, the reused locations, the general size of the areas, the use of the speech wheel, and the pacing of the story. Everything else was at least as good as Origins, and sometimes better. The combat was more frantic, character relationships were slower and more even, and you didn't have to be their best friend to build a rapport with them. Your companions acted more as individuals- they chose to wear what THEY wanted to wear, and knew not to bother trying to wax philosophical with you while on a mission. In short, they had their own lives. Which was, I think, an improvement. Hawke was very well voiced, both with male and female, and the fact that his personality options are rather limited to saint, sinner and trickster do little to change the fact.

Some of the things you said were outright wrong, anyway- You CAN improve people's armor, by buying armor fragments from stores and finding them during specific quests. They also improve with level up- so unless you completely ignore upgrades and rune slotting, they're perfectly ready for endgame.

Basically, all I see is you complaining that it's not exactly like Origins. DA2 isn't perfect, and I would say it isn't quite as good as it's predecessor, either, but it's fun if you don't have a familiarity obsession.

The only thing I can agree with you fully on is the speech wheel. A list of exactly what you're going to say makes so much more sense that this shit; I don't understand how it came to be considered a good idea.
 

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
Slowpool said:
It's a different game, with different priorities. Stop thinking of it as a sequel, and more of a continuation of setting (the main character of the series, according to the devs, is Thedas, not any single person). The only things that I personally thought were bad were the constant waves of enemies, the reused locations, the general size of the areas, the use of the speech wheel, and the pacing of the story. Everything else was at least as good as Origins, and sometimes better. The combat was more frantic, character relationships were slower and more even, and you didn't have to be their best friend to build a rapport with them. Your companions acted more as individuals- they chose to wear what THEY wanted to wear, and knew not to bother trying to wax philosophical with you while on a mission. In short, they had their own lives. Which was, I think, an improvement. Hawke was very well voiced, both with male and female, and the fact that his personality options are rather limited to saint, sinner and trickster do little to change the fact.

Some of the things you said were outright wrong, anyway- You CAN improve people's armor, by buying armor fragments from stores and finding them during specific quests. They also improve with level up- so unless you completely ignore upgrades and rune slotting, they're perfectly ready for endgame.

Basically, all I see is you complaining that it's not exactly like Origins. DA2 isn't perfect, and I would say it isn't quite as good as it's predecessor, either, but it's fun if you don't have a familiarity obsession.

The only thing I can agree with you fully on is the speech wheel. A list of exactly what you're going to say makes so much more sense that this shit; I don't understand how it came to be considered a good idea.
I've already said my piece about those aspects of the game, so I won't continue on about that, but I will say this:

The story was horribly executed. It was shambolic, at best. It was presented, not at a slow pace, but as a series of side quests - and that's what they were! - that were only loosely linked thematically and had no bearing on the ending.

I actually missed out on a lot of the game like the armor fragments and such because I had no idea what they were or what to do with them and the game itself was so tedious that I didn't want to play it any longer.

As for calling it a continuation and not a sequel... The devs said the same thing. But that falls flat on its face. I don't expect it to be exactly like Origins, but I do expect the games to be similar. The fact is, the game's called Dragon Age II, and it's a sequel to a wildly successful RPG that itself was a throwback to old school RPGs. They stripped out all of the core elements from Dragon Age, and replaced them with what I call "Mass Effectisms". Some elements I have no qualms with, but when I buy a sequel I expect it to retain much of what I enjoyed about the predecessor. Imagine if, say, Metal Gear Solid 2 were a first person shooter.

Now, thematically and insofar as the plot is concerned, you can go crazy calling it a continuation or another installment in the series. That's fine. I would argue with the wisdom of making it so, when there were dangling plot threads from the first, but go ahead. However, gameplay-wise the game should have been, and was not, a sequel to Dragon Age. I fail to see how preventing me from setting up the my companions' armor (when I might want to equip them to complement my play style or to utilize the various bits of armor I collect) expands on the universe.
 

Rawne1980

New member
Jul 29, 2011
4,144
0
0
As something to kill an hour or 2 when the alternative is jabbing yourself in the eyball with a knitting needle, DA2 does an okay job. Although some people found it just as painful as doing the riverdance on a carpet made entirely of upturned plugs.

The story. You are expected to take sympathy on mages. Mages who, all the way through the entire game, try and kill you every opportunity they get. And on the other hand you are expected to dislike the oppressive Templars. Templars who, all the way through the entire game, are quite nice to you and give you a few quests and are generally a merry bunch. Even Meridith is quite placid towards you until the last part of the game.

So no Bioware, just no. I can't follow your story because you made Mages so fething irritating I wanted to slaughter all of them my damn self.

Merril, I hated her character. Started off cute but quite rapidly turned to down right annoying. Her own people hate her for being a blood mage, all the way through the game she can see how bad blood mages are but she still remains a blood mage ... why? Because she's simple as fuck and quite possibly one of the most flawed character designs i've ever come across.

Recycled dungeons. Seriously, when you've been in your very first dungeon in DA2 you have then seen them all. Same for the enemies. You know when they are going to spawn and 9 times out of 10 you know WHAT is going to spawn. Predictability isn't always a good thing.

Anders and his "i'm just gonna blow shit up and massacre innocent people because i'm a dick but for some reason no-one will ever be able to explain some people will still love me". Yeah, I beheaded that annoying fethwipe the second they gave me the chance.

I actually quite liked the other characters. Varric made me giggle quite a lot and I can't abuse Isabela for being a bit "loose" as I like my women to know what they are doing so her character model fit with my line of thinking .... except i've never bedded a pirate (makes note to buy wife a pirate outfit).

It all seemed a bit rushed aswell. The first part dragged on nicely at a decent pace. The second part started off at a good pace but got rushed towards the end. The last part seemed to be an afterthought. The final "boss" moments were so predictable i'd seen them coming from 2 chapters ago.

The "moral choice" system was the most flawed. It didn't matter if you were Genghis Khan incarnate or the second coming of Mother Theresa, you got the exact same story. The choices affected nothing. Same with companions. You were a dick in the first game and they left you, act like a dick in this game and they will give you a cross look and thats it. If moral choices aren't going to affect anything .... DON'T PUT THEM IN.

And thats all I can complain about. I did quite enjoy the game besides it's faults.

It looks good and it plays smoothly and that goes a long way in a good gaming experience for me. Gameplay is key and DA2 had pretty decent, responsive gameplay.
 

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
Rawne1980 said:
As something to kill an hour or 2 when the alternative is jabbing yourself in the eyball with a knitting needle, DA2 does an okay job. Although some people found it just as painful as doing the riverdance on a carpet made entirely of upturned plugs.

The story. You are expected to take sympathy on mages. Mages who, all the way through the entire game, try and kill you every opportunity they get. And on the other hand you are expected to dislike the oppressive Templars. Templars who, all the way through the entire game, are quite nice to you and give you a few quests and are generally a merry bunch. Even Meridith is quite placid towards you until the last part of the game.

So no Bioware, just no. I can't follow your story because you made Mages so fething irritating I wanted to slaughter all of them my damn self.

Merril, I hated her character. Started off cute but quite rapidly turned to down right annoying. Her own people hate her for being a blood mage, all the way through the game she can see how bad blood mages are but she still remains a blood mage ... why? Because she's simple as fuck and quite possibly one of the most flawed character designs i've ever come across.

Recycled dungeons. Seriously, when you've been in your very first dungeon in DA2 you have then seen them all. Same for the enemies. You know when they are going to spawn and 9 times out of 10 you know WHAT is going to spawn. Predictability isn't always a good thing.

Anders and his "i'm just gonna blow shit up and massacre innocent people because i'm a dick but for some reason no-one will ever be able to explain some people will still love me". Yeah, I beheaded that annoying fethwipe the second they gave me the chance.

I actually quite liked the other characters. Varric made me giggle quite a lot and I can't abuse Isabela for being a bit "loose" as I like my women to know what they are doing so her character model fit with my line of thinking .... except i've never bedded a pirate (makes note to buy wife a pirate outfit).

It all seemed a bit rushed aswell. The first part dragged on nicely at a decent pace. The second part started off at a good pace but got rushed towards the end. The last part seemed to be an afterthought. The final "boss" moments were so predictable i'd seen them coming from 2 chapters ago.

The "moral choice" system was the most flawed. It didn't matter if you were Genghis Khan incarnate or the second coming of Mother Theresa, you got the exact same story. The choices affected nothing. Same with companions. You were a dick in the first game and they left you, act like a dick in this game and they will give you a cross look and thats it. If moral choices aren't going to affect anything .... DON'T PUT THEM IN.

And thats all I can complain about. I did quite enjoy the game besides it's faults.

It looks good and it plays smoothly and that goes a long way in a good gaming experience for me. Gameplay is key and DA2 had pretty decent, responsive gameplay.
That's something I didn't touch upon; the combat and the dungeons. I was far more concerned with the "core" of the game, but these things bothered me greatly.

The waves of enemies was blatant attempt at patching over a rushed game. The first game had sensible encounters that involved bounty hunters, mercenaries, and assassins sent after you and made sense. This game actually had the balls to put in several quests consisting of fighting off successive waves of bad guys and tracking down their hideout - just to be some sort of magical Batman.

I've heard the combat described as "responsive", and I'm not sure what that means. I thought the first game was "responsive"; I clicked a button and shit happened. I guess it wasn't faster paced to suit modern preferences, but I was quite aware that Origins was a throwback to old RPGs. This game, I thought, needed to just come off its pretenses and allow me some actual hack 'n' slash. Instead of pounding one button and the occasional square, let me just fucking juggle these bastards!

And, I really, really, hate the ending. Was I clear on that? I hate it. The first game felt so involved because literally everything you did was reflected in the end. The epilogues combined to really feel like there was an impact on the world, and that made the ending powerful. This one... has no ending. I literally had no idea what the fuck just happened. And Varric got my girlfriend's name wrong.

As for the mages thing; I've read a number of interesting reflections on the game's themes and the mage philosophies that were really deep and made you say "aha!" about some of the game's events. Just wish the writers had thought to include it.

Addendum: I wanted to say, under the Friendship/Rivalry category, that the actual "climaxes" in the relationships don't really change. Sure, rivalry is more combative, but there's no actual change in the relationship. You still get the exact same bonuses, and the scenes conclude in a very similar manner, and all the other interactions are the exact same. I did a rivalry with Merrill that still had her inexplicably appear at my mansion for hot lesbian mage sex, still had her console me sweetly for a certain death, and was only truly noticeable when she yelled at me once. Just once.
 

Knobody13

New member
Feb 16, 2010
205
0
0
I agree with you in pretty much every regard except for the characters. I liked merril and varric. I thought they were very interesting. You didnt even get into the terribly revamped gameplay and the fact that there was only one real healer in the game. Man fuck those never ending waves of enemies and retarded new enemy aggro system.
 

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
Knobody13 said:
I agree with you in pretty much every regard except for the characters. I liked merril and varric. I thought they were very interesting. You didnt even get into the terribly revamped gameplay and the fact that there was only one real healer in the game. Man fuck those never ending waves of enemies and retarded new enemy aggro system.
The review is already much longer than it should have been. Maybe someday I'll whip those out for cheap jokes.
 

Xanthious

New member
Dec 25, 2008
1,273
0
0
I've said it before so allow me to say it here. A few months ago my neighbor's dog took a big runny shit on my walk way. I ended up using my Dragon Age 2 disc to scrape it off the cement cause what the hell else am I supposed to do with it. Boy was my neighbor pissed! You wouldn't believe how mad he got that I got a Dragon Age 2 disc all over his dog shit. I guess looking back that dog shit did in fact deserve better.
 

Kiardras

New member
Feb 16, 2011
242
0
0
I liked Dragon Age 2. But you're almost spot on with your review. I still like it though as I accept its a different kettle of fish than Origins.

Oddly, after playing through DA2, when I went back and replayed Origins, I realised just how much more of a superior game it was.
 

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
Kiardras said:
I liked Dragon Age 2. But you're almost spot on with your review. I still like it though as I accept its a different kettle of fish than Origins.

Oddly, after playing through DA2, when I went back and replayed Origins, I realised just how much more of a superior game it was.
It is, in many ways, a matter of preference. I don't like the Mass Effect-esque style of RPG, and would much rather play a Bioware Classic type of game. Hopefully (for me) this goes the way of New Coke.
 

Matt King

New member
Mar 15, 2010
551
0
0
well good for you, i personally loved the game,the combat was greatly improved it was much better than the first i think (i did play the xbox version of them both and aparently the first one was much worse on the xbox)
and it's i couldn't give a fuck
 

Apollo45

New member
Jan 30, 2011
534
0
0
The two characters I enjoyed were Varric and Aveline. They were the only two, in my mind, that seemed to have even a semblance of "real" to them. They seemed like characters; Aveline joked around about my flirting but obviously wasn't interested (although maybe I'm putting more faith in her character than I should...) and Varric was a dwarf, which is enough to put him a step above the others in the first place. The rest of them were placeholders, no more.

As far as relationships go, I got it on with Isabella for shits and giggles, then later in the story Merril moved in and we got it on there. Throughout it all they were constantly telling me not to hurt the other one, and that they loved me, but they were friends... Well, essentially I had my own little harem. And at that point I felt like I was playing a Japanese romance game, which completely threw off the feel of all of the relationships.

None of the choices you make matter in the slightest... None of the choice you made in DA:O mattered in the slightest... and so on and so forth. You've pretty much covered it all, and what you didn't cover was so obvious that it doesn't really need to be said again.

Except for the re-used dungeons. Fuck the re-used dungeons. The rest of the game, by itself, could have been considered them trying something "new" and failing. I mean, at least they had tried to expand their horizons, and even if they didn't do amazingly it wasn't the worst game I've ever played. I very well might've been able to look past everything else as a sad mistake if it weren't for those telling me over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and... and over again that Bioware wasn't actually trying to make a good game, they were just being lazy fucks trying to make a quick buck, and there isn't any excuse for that.
 

LiberalSquirrel

Social Justice Squire
Jan 3, 2010
848
0
0
Slowpool said:
It's a different game, with different priorities. Stop thinking of it as a sequel, and more of a continuation of setting (the main character of the series, according to the devs, is Thedas, not any single person). The only things that I personally thought were bad were the constant waves of enemies, the reused locations, the general size of the areas, the use of the speech wheel, and the pacing of the story. Everything else was at least as good as Origins, and sometimes better. The combat was more frantic, character relationships were slower and more even, and you didn't have to be their best friend to build a rapport with them. Your companions acted more as individuals- they chose to wear what THEY wanted to wear, and knew not to bother trying to wax philosophical with you while on a mission. In short, they had their own lives. Which was, I think, an improvement. Hawke was very well voiced, both with male and female, and the fact that his personality options are rather limited to saint, sinner and trickster do little to change the fact.

Some of the things you said were outright wrong, anyway- You CAN improve people's armor, by buying armor fragments from stores and finding them during specific quests. They also improve with level up- so unless you completely ignore upgrades and rune slotting, they're perfectly ready for endgame.

Basically, all I see is you complaining that it's not exactly like Origins. DA2 isn't perfect, and I would say it isn't quite as good as it's predecessor, either, but it's fun if you don't have a familiarity obsession.

The only thing I can agree with you fully on is the speech wheel. A list of exactly what you're going to say makes so much more sense that this shit; I don't understand how it came to be considered a good idea.
Why thank you, sir/madam. This post made all the points I was planning on making. You saved me a bit of time typing this up.

DA2 wasn't perfect- but I can't think of any game that is perfect. DA2 was also not DA: Origins- but, personally, I'd rather Bioware try to do something new and different with their sequels than just rehash the same old ideas, even if the sequel isn't received as well. And I actually think that, despite the fan outcry, DA2 did some things to improve on DA:O.
 

ShadowsofHope

Outsider
Nov 1, 2009
2,623
0
0
While Dragon Age II does have several noticeable flaws to it, both in story, characters, quest design and map (I preferred the fast paced combat of Dragon Age II, but the tactical side of Dragon Age: Origins was the better of the two).. you have to come to the realization at some point that Dragon Age II is a "sequel" in terms that it shares the Dragon Age name, and that part of the game occurs after the Hero of Ferelden from the first game defeats the Darkspawn and the Archdemon. It was never meant to continue the story of the Hero of Ferelden in any way, shape or form, but rather expand upon the universe of Thedas and the characters whom influenced it the most over it's history (albeit granted, exploration and locations could have been a little more spread out over the area).

Dragon Age as a trilogy is not the story of the Hero of Ferelden, but rather the story of Thedas and the characters whom molded it. Not to say that this negates any of the legitimate criticisms of game mechanics and slight story plot holes here and there with the game itself, but judging Dragon Age II for not being a clone of Dragon Age: Origins plus addition plot is rather missing the point.
 

Clive Howlitzer

New member
Jan 27, 2011
2,783
0
0
It definitely had some flaws but I enjoyed it. I even did two playthroughs! Something I could never see myself doing with Dragon Age: Origins. Of course that was partly due to how much shorter the game was and I liked the combat better, despite its flaws.
Anyway, I guess I can't ***** too much about a game with only a year of development time.
 

Terminal Blue

Elite Member
Legacy
Feb 18, 2010
3,933
1,804
118
Country
United Kingdom
StarCecil said:
The story was horribly executed. It was shambolic, at best. It was presented, not at a slow pace, but as a series of side quests - and that's what they were! - that were only loosely linked thematically and had no bearing on the ending.
It sounds me to like you've come to depend on Joseph Campbell's 'heroes journey'

That's no bad thing, it's a compelling narrative tool, but I for one am so bored of it being the generic structure for fantasy and RPG storylines. Partly, I understand that it's due to the way RPGs are set up, a character levels up and becomes stronger and stronger which gives the impression of character development without the need to put any effort into it, but at the same time it's incredibly limited.

Now, what Dragon Age 2 at least attempts to do (I'm not even convinced it wasn't an accident, but closer than most RPGs will ever get) is pretend to be a personal narrative. Not an overarching narrative of 'darkspawn are invading and a placid faced player insertion is the only one who can stop them', but the narrative of a single person and their development over time.

The fault was not that they tried to do that, the fault was that they failed. Unless you carefully arrange it, Hawke has no real character development. The problem is that Bioware didn't seem able to choose whether Hawke is a blank slate or a predetermined character, and would probably have done far better had they simply bit the bullet and restricted player freedom for the sake of telling what is, in essence, the story of one person and their rise to power through the circumstances which made it so.

StarCecil said:
The first was game was so good because each character had a distinct, clear personality that fit into a number of moral archetypes.
Do you seriously want me to do this? Okay..

Morrigan is a stereotype, not an archetype. She consistently advises or approves of the 'evil' decisions in every situation regardless of context and whether they actually benefit her in any way, down to siding with the Templars, of all things, because she inexplicably hates the circle mages for being 'weak' enough to be imprisoned by the Templars. Add to that that she's sexually aggressive and beyond bad character design is clearly meant to be 'the hot one' and she's actually a little offensive.

Wynne is also a stereotype. She's a polar opposite to Morrigan who advocates complete self sacrifice in every situation. We are told constantly that she is dying which might explain why she has retreated to such an unhealthy position, but she never dies, never has a crisis of faith, never even displays fear of her own impending demise. The whole thing is completely whitewashed of any meaning, and then it never actually happens.. she even reappears in Awakening.

Zevran bear in mind that Isabella and Merrill are my least favourite characters in Dragon Age and Zevran is my favourite, but if 'having a casual attitude to sex' is Isabella's crime, Zevran should be on death row. He is a collection of cheesy one liners and sexual bragging attached to a generic Mediterranean accent, the only thing which makes it brilliant (and I'll admit it's something which doesn't come across nearly as well for Isabella) is that it's a complete facade.

Oh, and he also does the random evil from time to time. Great.

..

Actually, now I've started I don't have time, but seriously. Each class has two characters representing it, one will be sweet, innocent and selfless, the other will be evil to the point of stupidity. Except Oghren I suppose, who is just stupid and whose actual personality is virtually unexplored behind a wall of alcohol jokes (which surely can't still be uncritically funny in this day and age). What little we know about him is good, but that's virtually nothing, and in Awakening it gets even worse.
 

StarCecil

New member
Feb 28, 2010
503
0
0
ShadowsofHope said:
While Dragon Age II does have several noticeable flaws to it, both in story, characters, quest design and map (I preferred the fast paced combat of Dragon Age II, but the tactical side of Dragon Age: Origins was the better of the two).. you have to come to the realization at some point that Dragon Age II is a "sequel" in terms that it shares the Dragon Age name, and that part of the game occurs after the Hero of Ferelden from the first game defeats the Darkspawn and the Archdemon. It was never meant to continue the story of the Hero of Ferelden in any way, shape or form, but rather expand upon the universe of Thedas and the characters whom influenced it the most over it's history (albeit granted, exploration and locations could have been a little more spread out over the area).

Dragon Age as a trilogy is not the story of the Hero of Ferelden, but rather the story of Thedas and the characters whom molded it. Not to say that this negates any of the legitimate criticisms of game mechanics and slight story plot holes here and there with the game itself, but judging Dragon Age II for not being a clone of Dragon Age: Origins plus addition plot is rather missing the point.
Oh, I've come to accept that. I find it somehow unwise to go on a different tangent with the sequel when, again, there were very visible sequel hooks and cliffhangers left at the end of the first. However, as a successor, this game fails. The story aside, all the gameplay changes, many frivolous and we can see ineffective - or outright bad - have nothing to do with being a separate tale in the world. Basically, if it ain't broke it don't need fixin'.

Though, I did enjoy the magical combat much more.
 

Ashendarei

New member
Feb 10, 2009
237
0
0
You know, DA:O has a whole lot more investment for me then DA:2 did. I played through Origins once completely and then about 2/3 of the way through as another class and got about 65-70 hours in (still haven't finished 2nd run through, but enjoy it nontheless).

DA:2 I beat once and thought "wow. That was a cool game". That was it. No real replay value, I tried to replay it as a different class type, but didn't find it compelling enough. As things stand now I'm in chapter 2 on DA:2 (2nd runthrough) and I don't think I'm going to go any further with it.

I liked Varric as a character. He played the narrator VERY well, and his in-game banter was enjoyable throughout the entire game. The rest of the characters irritated me off and on, but weren't bad enough to get me to stop playing, just broke immersion here and there.

Hopefully Bioware will scrap the idea of continuing with the DA:2 style and fall back on their Origins (hah).