Yes, you do have a point, we do conform to a lot of things, what you're refering to here is the idea of social norms. These are certain standards that the majority of people view as "normal", so to go against these is to be judged abnormal. In any other situation, these wouldnt be a problem, but the majority has the power to exclude us and impose sanctions. So, we conform.
Apart from the conforming opinions thing you talked about, these arent very good examples. Changing clothes regularly and washing every day could simply be for hygiene reasons.
If you had left it at "wearing clothes, full stop" or "washing in general" (although this still doesnt work so well) then you would have been on to something. Why WOULD we wear clothes? The answer is because it is expected of us, by these un-written social norms. Being naked in a crowd of clothed people is the easiest way to become abnormal in society.
It ALL comes back to wanting to be part of the majority, and we conform because the majority can punish us and apply sanctions.
You are supposed to shower about two/three times a week max. Showering once a day strips off what's known as the 'horny' layer of your skin which protects you from infection, germs, etc. If you shower too much, you aren't allowing your skin enough time to regrow that layer that it needs.
Naturally, this layer of skin strips off by itself (you have a new horny layer about once a month without showering) but showering repeatedly speeds it up. It's bad for your skin.
It's also bad for your hair too. Your hair has natural oils that it needs to keep healthy. Conditioner artificially restores the damage that shampoo does, but those oils are really important for the sustained health of your follicles. Notice how AMAZING your hair looks and feels if you don't shower for a week and then go and clean it? It's because your hair has been given time to restore itself.
In that case... well, my hair's probably OK, only wash it 2-3 times a week (and it's very low maintenance, thankfully). As for my skin... seems to be OK, though I know about the oils that are secreted to protect the skin being washed away by regular showering, though I tend to keep my showers just short enough to wash away the day's (or half-day's) exertion...
*shivers* I just remembered my old undergrad days... I used to wash my hands with acetone. Then, I remembered the days when synthetic chemists (i.e. my ilk) used to wash their hands with benzene (carcinogenic, incidentally). *cringe*
Random thought: question: how long should one shower for?
just one massive issue here... you actually contradict yourself within your own explanation.
Eggsnham said:
Or a Klondike bar. Whichever one.
But yeah, it's occurred to me that we humans do some pretty ridiculous things just for the ability to make friends.
For example:
Shower daily
Wear different clothes daily
Buy new clothes frequently
Take certain views to fit in with certain groups (literally everyone does this, even if you think you don't)
Don't talk about certain things
And the list goes on.
I mean, if you're the type of person who needs to shower daily and can't get by with just deodorant and a quick combing of the hair, then that's necessity.
But wearing the same clothes isn't that big of a deal, yet we make it out to be such a huge thing that I'm feeling a little nervous just defending it. As long as your clothes don't smell like dookie, or have stains all over them, it should be fine to wear them another day.
And we shouldn't feel obligated to buy a new shirt and pair of jeans every week or so, what's wrong with having a semi-predictable wardrobe?
And then there's always the times when we'll take a certain viewpoint just fit in or take a certain side. Even the self proclaimed non-conformists do this, as claiming to be a non-conformist and holding the views of your "non-conformist" lifestyle is conforming to somebodies ideas somewhere, whether you admit it or not.
And then we're not supposed to talk about certain things for fear of being labeled as awkward or weird. For example, sex. Why do we act like the reason for our existence is such a taboo and sacred thing that only the elite and beautiful are allowed to talk about? Literally everyone who is born with an able body and mind will have sex eventually.
If you ask me, we're going through too much just to claim the right to a social life.
Then again, I'm probably just repeating what thousands of other have said before being ripped to shreds by suspicion and paranoia or ignored.
Look at the second unsnipped paragraph, and then compare it to the bolded section of the first.
A person claiming to be non-conformist and sharing the views of someone they've never met is generally not conforming to those views in order to fit in with certain groups. I imagine it happens from time to time, but most often a non-conformist actively avoids fitting it with any group they encounter, even changing how they see themselves for the express purpose of not fitting in with any group.
Personally, though... of those things you listed, I do one of them to make myself seem more socially acceptable. That one thing is not talking about certain things around certain people (which is actually one of the many ways I let people who know me know that I dislike someone. I'm quiet around easily offended people... because I despise them).
I maintain my personal hygiene for health reasons, and because I dislike the smells I excrete when unwashed... but most of my clothing is at least five years old.
I know right!? I much prefer glaring at strangers while having telepathic conversations with the people I consider to be worthwhile.
EDIT: Yeah, there is some social motivations (like showering before a date). But social motivation is really just one kind. I mean, I love showers (I'm a water person ... but not the beach: too salty), I like having clothes that smell nice (I can smell my own B.O., and I don't like it), I try not to fart around people as a courtesy to them, not becuase I want them to like me, I try and eat neatly because I don't like stains on my clothes (or sauce on my face). So yes, there are social motivations for a lot of the things we do, but they aren't always the only motivation.
Personally, I never shower for more than ten minutes. It will always varying depending on your skin type though. Some people are much more sensitive than others. Even so, I wouldn't push past 15 minutes. If you're in the shower and your fingers are pruning, something has gone horribly wrong. XD
Personally, I never shower for more than ten minutes. It will always varying depending on your skin type though. Some people are much more sensitive than others. Even so, I wouldn't push past 15 minutes. If you're in the shower and your fingers are pruning, something has gone horribly wrong. XD
I'm inclined to agree, since a few minutes is all one needs to wash off the miniscule amount of gunk that would have accumulated (for white-collar people, at least...). And I want to feel refreshed... not as though I've gone through some sort of ringer! Of course, some people disagree, decrying 'scabies' *rolls eyes*
And the pruning fingertips always disturbed me... ^_^ (never bothered to find out how/why that happens, though... well, that's the next five minutes occupied...)
People buy new clothes every week. Really.
You know what, sure, why the fuck not. It's not the only pointless waste of money the well-off indulge in, let's just add this to the big, retarded pile.
I think what I think because it's what I fucking think, adopting views to fit in is fucking stupid. I shower for my own comfort. I change clothes after a shower because otherwise it's completely redundant. I buy clothes to replace old clothes that are worn to nothing. I say what I feel like whenever I feel like it.
I don't even want a social life. The only reason I have one is because my friends are a bunch of fucking freaks and won't leave me alone.
I am beginning to think they LIKE being yelled at all the time.
you remind me of Karkat. Your avatar is quite appropriate.
I do know the "being bothered by friends" feeling though. I haven't been able to work on my art portfolio for days because my friends keep bugging me to hang out. Becoming a good artist means hours and hours of work...not chillin' and drinkin'. Glad Im not the only one who feels like you.
I think humans do far too much to fit in. It seems like they are sacrificing their real and true self just to not be disliked and be accepted.
I know the price of not doing so. Loneliness, depression, and isolation. Probably most people I meet shy away, fear, or dislike me because I am not "normal". I tend to talk about weird stuff, often without caring about how people react to it (but I never try or want to say anything hurtful or offensive), I am surprised I even have any friends. But at least I can say whatever I feel among them, without fear or worrying.
I'd rather be like this than put on a mask and pretend to be someone I am not. It is liberating. But for what I lose, it is hard to argue whether it is worth it.
I try to keep my hygiene though (I shower once a day), but I do not use deodorant or wear attractive clothing. The former because it feels like I am faking myself (and a shower seem to be enough), the latter because I dislike showing off as it makes me feel uncomfortable. I wish I could wear something aesthetic though, as I do like elegant non-sexualized outfits.
Same with me. I tend to slowly walk away from my friends when I feel really shy, especially since everyone is always talking to at least three other people besides me...
Edit: as for buying clothes, I can barely buy Magic cards without feeling weird..
This is not only wrong but conceited and offensive. Just because you may do something doesn't mean everyone else does. I won't be hostile towards you for it, but don't try to justify yourself by claiming that it's something "everyone" does, because that excuse just doesn't work.
I shower at least once a day regardless of whether I'm going out or not. My clothes are good for a few wears, so long as they don't smell or have stains on them. Pants can be changed when new pants are available to be worn. None of these are sacrifices to me, they're simply how I live. I rarely make sacrifices to other people.
just one massive issue here... you actually contradict yourself within your own explanation.
Eggsnham said:
Or a Klondike bar. Whichever one.
But yeah, it's occurred to me that we humans do some pretty ridiculous things just for the ability to make friends.
For example:
Shower daily
Wear different clothes daily
Buy new clothes frequently
Take certain views to fit in with certain groups (literally everyone does this, even if you think you don't)
Don't talk about certain things
And the list goes on.
I mean, if you're the type of person who needs to shower daily and can't get by with just deodorant and a quick combing of the hair, then that's necessity.
But wearing the same clothes isn't that big of a deal, yet we make it out to be such a huge thing that I'm feeling a little nervous just defending it. As long as your clothes don't smell like dookie, or have stains all over them, it should be fine to wear them another day.
And we shouldn't feel obligated to buy a new shirt and pair of jeans every week or so, what's wrong with having a semi-predictable wardrobe?
And then there's always the times when we'll take a certain viewpoint just fit in or take a certain side. Even the self proclaimed non-conformists do this, as claiming to be a non-conformist and holding the views of your "non-conformist" lifestyle is conforming to somebodies ideas somewhere, whether you admit it or not.
And then we're not supposed to talk about certain things for fear of being labeled as awkward or weird. For example, sex. Why do we act like the reason for our existence is such a taboo and sacred thing that only the elite and beautiful are allowed to talk about? Literally everyone who is born with an able body and mind will have sex eventually.
If you ask me, we're going through too much just to claim the right to a social life.
Then again, I'm probably just repeating what thousands of other have said before being ripped to shreds by suspicion and paranoia or ignored.
Look at the second unsnipped paragraph, and then compare it to the bolded section of the first.
A person claiming to be non-conformist and sharing the views of someone they've never met is generally not conforming to those views in order to fit in with certain groups. I imagine it happens from time to time, but most often a non-conformist actively avoids fitting it with any group they encounter, even changing how they see themselves for the express purpose of not fitting in with any group.
Not really, most people that I know that would probably describe themselves as "non-conformists" find themselves in a crowd of people with similar views. Punks, goths, people with more radical political ideals, hipsters, for example, have all formed nice, neat little subcultures. They may go against the views of 90% or even 99%, but in a large enough population, that 1% is still a pretty significant group of people. The chances are, no matter how unusual their perspective of life, there is a group of people who agree. They can't choose a viewpoint that will disclude them from all social groups that they encounter.
OP: You try to portray some of these things as if they are somehow ridiculous or irrational. To me, most of them qualify as just being considerate of others, whether you want them in your social group or not. I shower every day for the sake of everyone that meets me; I don't particularly care if the random bloke that sits next to me on the bus is never going to be my friend, but I would hate it if he smelled and I should show him the same courtesy.
Also, I don't know what sort of people you hang around with but I know people that wear the same stuff pretty much every day and people don't bat an eyelid about it. I have 2 pairs of jeans and maybe 5 t-shirts and a couple of shirts that I wear regularly and nobody gives a shit.
And sex is a taboo topic? Really? Ok, there are some people that definitely get a bit awkward around the topic, but most people I know treat it like pretty much any other topic of conversation. I can't think of that many topics that I've not talked about for fear that I would lose friends. I mean, literally today I had a conversation about how we didn't know that many black people and another conversation with a completely different group of people about disgusting sex acts. Both these were with mixed groups and completely sober.
Unless you are referring to just being tactless, but I think that just comes under the bracket of "not being a dick".
I can not shower for 2 weeks without using deodorant and still smell like fresh. I also don't feel dirty at all on those times. I will still shower at least every other day. I stopped shaving daily / every other day too; I found out that no-one bothers if I leave a beard. In fact, i seem to attract woman more often if I didn't shave. But I honestly don't care any more. I do take care of my hair though. I find my hair the best thing about me (physically) so I need it right somehow.
I don't really put forth a strong effort toward making friends. As far as showering and wearing clothe, I do so because I like to feel clean and keep warm. Also I don't want people staring at my junk.
I guess I should also state that I don't really have many friends too...
I dont know.
I do shower when i need and i do make sure that my clothes are
clean. But i dont really care that much about the outward
appearances. So i dont really do colone and all that.
Dont even shave my beard that often.
If they like me then they will like me for my personality.
That is the way i like it and that is the way it is supposed to be.
Trying to maintain a social life is just really boring. I don't mind playing multiplayer games with friends (local or online), but I usually find anything other than that and playing one or two card games to be really boring and a waste of my time that could be spent doing other things (like playing Disgaea 3).
Or maybe it's just because I can't have conversations with other people (I'm a man of few words, unless I'm playing local multiplayer, which for some reason makes me talkative as fuck)
Or because of social networking (I'm looking at you, Facebook)
Or because of people I know constantly trying to make me go out and do stuff I don't want to do (I already said I don't want to go, mom!)
That said, I usually shower every other day, unless I go to the gym/work out/whatever you might happen to call it.
I think that slowly I'm starting to stop caring about the fact that I'm caring about whether or not people care for me. I used to hate on myself every time I suspected I was doing something only to look good to others. So what if I'm a bit of a "second-hand" person, as Ayn Rand would say? Worrying about it just makes it more of a problem. I don't really give a damn anymore. Does this mean I win? PLEASE VALIDATE ME!
I've gone MONTHS with the same pair of jeans, only my mom and brother noticed.
I have to shower pretty much daily though; I have long hair, so it get uncomfortable when it gets greesy.
I like buying clothing too, at least shirts. I have an awesome shirt collection, or a collection of awesome shirt, either way works.
Other then that, I login onto facebook and message people occacionally. That's about it.
A few of my friends do, actually. And they hardly ever wear the same things twice. It's stupid, if they're going to just waste money like that they might as well just donate it or something.
This is not only wrong but conceited and offensive. Just because you may do something doesn't mean everyone else does. I won't be hostile towards you for it, but don't try to justify yourself by claiming that it's something "everyone" does, because that excuse just doesn't work.
You can't tell me that you've never ever said or agreed with something for the express cause of trying to get on someone's good side.
I'd be willing to bet that everybody with the ability to communicate with others has done this before.
The reason is simple, we all want to be liked.
Don't try and tell me that I'm a part of a certain group who is specially flawed because of this, unless you're going to call that group the entire human race.
And also don't try and tell me that you're a part of a special group who doesn't and hasn't done this either.
It's like masturbation, everybody does it, but for some reason a massive amount of people have a huge problem admitting it.
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