The truth about you

[])rStrangelove]

Thing is: ppl are all different (thank god for that). The girl in the comic basically says nothing more like 'thx for showing me your feelings, but you're not how i think my fav type of men should be like'.

The comic shows just 1 extreme side of the whole spectrum. Take it to the other extreme and take a guess how the comic would've turned out if it would feature a muscle macho type of guy trying to get together with a beautiful / well educated / highly intelligent girl studying micro electronics.

 

[Batou667]

GINORMOUS generalizing aside, I find this train of argument particularly bizarre. A nice guy is bad because he does nice things but also hopes for sex. Whereas an asshole is good because he wants sex but doesn't do nice things to get it.

Yes, it's a generalisation, but not an unreasonable one. "Nice Guy Syndrome" is universally recognised - enough to provide no shortage of Google results, including a Wikipedia entry, at any rate.

The reason I kept putting "Nice Guy" in quote marks is because they're not genuinely nice, they display outwardly nice behaviour while actually there's an underlying expectation of being recompensed generally emotionally or sexually. Wikipedia sums it up very succinctly:

[Nice Guy Syndrome describes how] a genuinely nice male is desirable, but that many people purporting to be, or believing themselves to be a "nice guy" are actually clingy, self-abasing, and insecure to such an extent that their attempts to be nice and desire to be loved, make them neither nice nor loveable. They also imply that most men who would refer to themselves as "nice guys" often have ulterior motives, such as only looking for sex as opposed to relationships.

Being shy or geeky or not a beercan-crushing, football-playing, wolf-whistling jock, that's all fine. I firmly place myself in the Geek camp! But the "Nice Guy" is a particularly manipulative, passive-aggressive, emotionally vampiristic subset of Geekdom. He simultaneously pines for and deeply resents the women he pursues, and would readily resort to underhand tactics like taking advantage of a woman who is emotionally fragile or pressuring a woman into a relationship through guilt. The "Nice Guy" has no respect for women, just an over-inflated sense of self-entitlement. There is really nothing genuine or noble about the "Nice Guy".

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

)rStrangelove]Thing is: ppl are all different (thank god for that). The girl in the comic basically says nothing more like 'thx for showing me your feelings, but you're not how i think my fav type of men should be like'.

snip rest

Pretty much. My friend has tried hooking me up with her friend because I've been single for 3 years, not out of hatred or depression, but I couldn't bare to date someone while I was living home and jobless. Finally landed a job, but her friend is the typical "moron" when it comes to dating. She refuses to date anyone who isn't tall, blonde and surfs. Not only was it the most judgemental thing (sure I play games but I still have a social life) but she's not exactly miss perfect herself. soon as I heard that I just told her "fuck it, dont even bother setting me up with someone as shallow as that"

 

[])rStrangelove]

She refuses to date anyone who isn't tall, blonde and surfs. Not only was it the most judgemental thing (sure I play games but I still have a social life) but she's not exactly miss perfect herself. soon as I heard that I just told her "fuck it, dont even bother setting me up with someone as shallow as that"

You should have tried it anyway and discuss exactly this issue of hers. Maybe she could have wised up.

I actually gave up being nice years ago. Today i look ppl in the eyes and tell them what i think ('sorry but i think complaining about having no sparetime because of your little kids and buying a young dog the next week doesnt just fit together').

They can't blame you for telling the truth. Believing in that actually makes me more confident than before. Used to try figuring out what i could possibly answer now that would be halfway true and still not being overly offensive - i just don't do that anymore. If they can't stand hearing the truth then fine by me.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

It may hurt you to ask, but it will hurt you much worse never to know.

 

[Batou667]

generalizing the way you have is no more accurate than claiming all blacks are criminals just because one black guy at your school actually did commit a crime.

Now that is what you call a ridiculously poor analogy. And a gratuitious one at that.

And you in particular have a vested interest in perpetuation the stereotype, as you are defining yourself as an opposite of the stereotype. You stand to gain sexually by tarring every guy who behaves kindly to women they are attracted to with the same brush. So no, not buying it.

Please don't make assumptions, it's embarrasing. First, I'm not single. Second, if I was looking to get lucky, about the last place I'd be angling for women is on an anonymous videogames discussion board. Third, I'm not claiming to be some macho bad-boy who beats up nerds for amusement - did you miss the part of my post where I said I am a geek and proud of it? So I'm hardly the "opposite of the stereotype". The difference is that I've had my eyes opened to the fallacy of the passive, manipulative "nice guy" and I feel that raising awareness of this pitfall is something that could benefit a lot of people - particularly the kind of shy, introverted, emotionally-confused adolescent that I used to be.

 

[Gigano]

Well, obviously not many women will go for the omegas of the pack, and obviously some of these omega guys will display a façade of kindness solely because they hope for sex.

Though as women unsurprising have individual taste - and a hierarchy of their own placing limitations on most of them as well - and one can hardly assume that all omegas are sex-crazed manipulators, it fairly limited what it has to say on the issue in general.

Ultimately, the comic is ranting against intellectual and sensitive nerds, when it should be ranting against unassertive doormats with a victim mentality and a superiority complex. There is certainly not much desire for the latter - in either sex - but there can be plenty of chances for the former: They don't really equate.

As it stands, it narrowly misses a valid point, and becomes simple anti-intellectualism.

 

[artanis_neravar]

snip

While yes there are some "nice guys" that, like in the comic above, feel like they are obligated to receive the love of a girl just because they "are always there for them" and "listen to all of their guy problems" but that doesn't, by any means, mean that every guy who is nice to a girl is like that.

snip

Is right, you made a rather offensive generalization, not every guy looks at a girl and knows that he wants to date her, hell I have no attraction to a girl until I get to know her personality, yes I can appreciate physical beauty, but I'm not going to waste my time but going out with someone that I am not reasonably sure that I can have fun with, and could picture myself in a relationship with.

Well, obviously not many women will go for the omegas of the pack, and obviously some of these omega guys will display a façade of kindness solely because they hope for sex.

The Alpha and Omega Idea doesn't really apply to humans

Though as women unsurprising have individual taste - and a hierarchy of their own placing limitations on most of them as well - and one can hardly assume that all omegas are sex-crazed manipulators, it fairly limited what it has to say on the issue in general.

Ultimately, the comic is ranting against intellectual and sensitive nerds, when it should be ranting against unassertive doormats with a victim mentality and a superiority complex. There is certainly not much desire for the latter - in either sex - but there can be plenty of chances for the former: They don't really equate.

As it stands, it narrowly misses a valid point, and becomes simple anti-intellectualism.

The rest of this I agree with though

 

[Batou667]

You are slandering an entire swath of people because of the negative behavior of a tiny subset of it. It is exactly the same thing.

Either you didn't read my first (and subsequent) posts clearly enough, or you're wilfully misinterpreting what I said. Geeks in general, shy people, pleasant but romantically clumsy introverts? I'm not talking about them, so relax. The ones I was directing my disapproval at ARE the very specific subset displaying the negative behaviour. You'll notice that I wrote "nice guys" in "speech marks" a lot in my first few posts, please read that as "manipulative, passive-aggressive men who display Nice Guy Syndrome". I thought I had made my meaning fairly clear, but maybe not.

It doesn't matter whether or not you consider yourself a geek. The fact is you are attacking a group of people while portraying yourself to be their opposite. This has to be done to differentiate yourself, to portray yourself as better.

Personally I think it's more accurate to say I was condemning their actions. Was the whole point of this to self-aggrandise and boost my ego; to prove my superiority and sexual attractiveness to an online forum full of anonymous posters, none of whom I have any contact with or knowledge of in the real world? Give me a break.

I don't know, I'd say insulting everyone who approaches relationships differently than you while portraying yourself as having "outgrown" that approach is still pretty passive-aggressive and manipulative.

Trying to have a reasonable discussion with you really is like banging my head against a brick wall. Let me repeat myself yet again, just so we're both clear what I'm saying. First, I'm not "insulting people who approach relationships differently from me", that's a gross oversimplification on the order of "pro-choice doctors want to kill babies".

I'm saying that the kind of guy who latches onto a woman, fixates on her to the verge of fetishising her regardless of whether she returns his feelings, and feigns genuine friendliness and caring while actually being emotionally manipulative, and who believes that the woman "owes him" affection or sex in return for his period of favours, is a pretty pathetic and hateful specimen of the male gender.

Would you condemn me for criticising a rapist? After all, he's just taking a "different approach to relationships".

Next: you think I'm passive-aggressive and manipulative? No, I'm not. I've been quite direct in expressing my thoughts on the matter - hardly "passive" at all - and who exactly am I manipulating here? Do you feel manipulated? No, you're just slinging a bewilderingly personal attack my way and trying to insinuate that I exhibit the same traits that I'm denouncing.

For the sake of trying to wrestle this thread back on-topic: what is it you actually take issue with here? Do you not agree that "nice guy syndrome" exists, and if so, why? It seems quite an accepted class of behaviour.

 

[Batou667]

While yes there are some "nice guys" that, like in the comic above, feel like they are obligated to receive the love of a girl just because they "are always there for them" and "listen to all of their guy problems" but that doesn't, by any means, mean that every guy who is nice to a girl is like that.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that EVERY guy who is nice is secretly being underhanded and manipulative. There are a lot of good genuine people out there - a majority even, I'd like to believe.

 

[artanis_neravar]

While yes there are some "nice guys" that, like in the comic above, feel like they are obligated to receive the love of a girl just because they "are always there for them" and "listen to all of their guy problems" but that doesn't, by any means, mean that every guy who is nice to a girl is like that.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that EVERY guy who is nice is secretly being underhanded and manipulative. There are a lot of good genuine people out there - a majority even, I'd like to believe.

Got it, I apologize for misunderstanding.

 

[Batou667]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that EVERY guy who is nice is secretly being underhanded and manipulative. There are a lot of good genuine people out there - a majority even, I'd like to believe.

Got it, I apologize for misunderstanding.

No problem my friend. I should have made myself clearer from the start.

 

[Batou667]

-angry rant-

Forget it, man. You can "not buy it" all you want, and carry on projecting every despicable and hypocritical character trait you want on me; as clearly you have an axe to grind and need a target to vent at. You can choose to believe that I came to this thread for the purpose of "gaining sexually" (whatever the hell you meant by that) and that I conveniently and cowardishly changed my tune the minute you trounced me with your florid rhetoric and impeccable logic.

And, since you've clearly made up your mind on this subject and aren't interested in hearing any differing viewpoints, I'll take this opportunity to declare you the winner and bid you a good night.

 

[gazumped]

As it stands, it narrowly misses a valid point, and becomes simple anti-intellectualism.

I gathered that he wasn't even smart as she called his English 'B-Grade' and when she called him intellectual she put it in quote-marks. I got the impression that he wasn't even smart, he was simply dull, average and had nothing going for him.

I mean, personally, I sort of like guys like this, I hate drama and I despise arguments and I want an easy life. I also keep finding myself coming second to more exciting girls who want to go out and have fun and party, my own nerdy awkward boyfriend spent the first year and a half of our relationship pining over a more outgoing girl (and being the anti-drama person that I am, I forgave him immediately when he admitted that because he said he was over it now).
*shrug* Works both ways I guess.

 

[michiehoward]

Purely from a female POV, the girl in the cartoon is a HUGE *****.

If they were good true friends, she would have tried to draw her friend out to see her side of life, and he would have should her more of things he liked to do. These two conceptualized "people" must of had so common ground along the way.

Secondly women, for whatever reason that we chase Asshole men, is wrong. And women on the main don't chose conflict and strife on the top 5 reasons for dating a guy.

Men play women, women fall for it, time and time again. Conditioning is the key for the archetype asshole boyfriend.

Ex: I'm a bad boy, you can fix me, make me see how valuable you are...I shower you with attention and mystery...Under this cool exterior is a well of rock philosophizer poet and utter excitement and danger.

Then the clincher

DISTANCE or he buggers off for awhile, girl chases asshole and wonders all the while whats wrong with her and what she did wrong.

Women suck at this tactic but we have some classics of our own.

So back to the "friends"

They're both wrong

Him because he pretends to be something he's not, she allows and plays the dumb game with him.

Yes I had a similar thing, except the friend who was my best friend, became (what I thought was a deeper) closer friendship then a physical friendship really loved me, really wanted to be with me. In the end I was discarded. But the next man I met became my husband, so maybe I had to go through one more shitty "relationship" to get the next/last one right.

 

[dimensional]

No it dosent really describe me nowadays I generally view all people with contempt (self included) also I have always viewed people wanting to spend there lives together as a bit weird TBH (yes I understand the feeling.......I think, but still).

I value my freedom and as such have always resented anything which hampers that such as forced education, work, and relationships and as such I try to avoid these things (unless I whimsically desire otherwise) in the words of Oscar wilde I want to live not earn my living. That is not to say there have not been girls I have been attracted to after all I am only human but at the end of the day it has always been tempered by the reasoning of why I am attracted to them what do I want why would they be interested in me and where would it lead in the end it always leads down to a loss of freedom for company which is not a sacrifice I am willing to make as I have rarely felt lonely, its not alien but is still an unusual concept to me.

In short I do not look for company if it is from a good friend (of which I am lucky to have quite a number) I do not spurn it but I am very much my own person I like to keep things simple without having to worry about others `feelings` or some other intangible rubbish.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Meh, the comic kinda seems like a bit of a straw man. Just because a guy doesn't ask a woman out doesn't mean he's a pale, insecure, socially-incompetent nerd.

*Snip snip snippety snip*

I agree.

I feel that this comic is TRYING to address me, but fails at it pretty hard. (for one thing, I have a girlfriend of 9 months, and we're doing great).

The strip is making the nerdy guy your streotypical "nice guy" (IE, the kind that pretends to be nice for sympathy), which is already a generalization, plus that girl is also a total !@#ch.

Yes, I'm a softspoken ubernerd who is also possibly a bit of a "man-child" (if you want to call it that). But leaving aside the fact that those are some of the qualities that my girlfriend actually LIKES about me, I also am not afraid to do other things. I love hiking for example, and when my GF suggested we go together to a school protest against raising tuition, I was all for it, even though it meant we would be marching in s massive crowd of strangers IN THE RAIN. Furthermore, I actually DO have confidence in myself (outside of certain classes I have), even though it took me over 5 years to actually develop it after the hell that was my high school.

So yeah, nice try comic strip. Yes, those fake "nice guys" are bad and need to get shot down, but don't try to make it look like any unconfident(?) nerd is one of them, and don't make it look like most girls want badasses just because. Yes, asshattery is a way of expressing confidence. But it's not the only way, nor is it the best.

I hope there still are girls that would rather have a comforting and caring boyfriend than an arrogant pick-up artist.

There are.

But you DO need to have some self confidence. If you cannot stand yourself, then you'll have a hard time convincing someone else to do so. But Being an ass is totally unneeded.