The Unsolved Mysteries Of 40K: A Good Old Discussion

[Echo42]

Because they're the embodiment of the worst aspects of human/ sentient races brought to extremes.

They're not actually evil, no warhammer race is hard and fast evil, perhaps minus the skaven.

you make a good point, name all the dark forces from the 40k universe and they arent exactly pure evil...

the chaos are just insane (the insane aren't techinically evil)

the dark eldar are warped, but i question this... they seem to be the only race you could easily call evil by what they do...

the Necrons arent really even in control of their actions (isnt that they were double crossed on a deal with a god, now they do what he says?)

the tau arent even that bad, often turning to the worst enemies then to the better, well in theory at least (so taking on the chaos instead of the imperials)

and the Eldar are fighting for survival so they have a cause behind their ways.

the orcs just want war (thats not so evil... right?)

the tyranids are just instinctual, they are doing what they do... (its like being angry at a bee cause it stung you, its a bee, it will sting.)

 

[Neosage]

Also does anyone else think the Tau brainwashed the Vespid?

Edit: To the above poster, it depends what you mean by Chaos, the Daemons and Gods are pure evil. Dark Eldar if they are anything like Druchii are evil in everyway (by human standards).

 

[Supernovajake]

I have some weapon related question for anyone who can answer them:
Why are bolt weapons sometimes depicted as machine guns when they are supposed to fire explosive rounds?
Is a lascannon just a big lasgun?
What does a power sword do differently than a normal sword?

Thanks.

Edit: Ok, I guess these aren't really unsolved mysteries, just questions. Still it would be nice to know.

 

[ward.]

Actually the Druchii are noted as being overall probably the most evil race, and it doesn't say that in sixth edition.

Dark elves are just continuing on the path originally laid out for the elven race by asuryan, skaven are genuinely bastards to everyone else because they want to be.

And yes it does.

So probably the only way to kill them would be to get rid of their food source, which is pure energy.

Vauls anvils can apparently do it as well (huge eldar battleships with a massive beam cannon, like ornate death stars).

 

[mcx]

Is it even remotley possible to defeat a 'nid army as Orks? (tabletop game).

Becuase too me these two races seem very similar to each other but the 'nids are just better.

 

[Spudgun Man]

I have some weapon related question for anyone who can answer them:
Why are bolt weapons sometimes depicted as machine guns when they are supposed to fire explosive rounds?
Is a lascannon just a big lasgun?
What does a power sword do differently than a normal sword?

Thanks

The Bolt weapons are machine guns with HE rounds, think of it as an Mp5 filled with miniture grenades. (kills more people that way)

Yes and more powerful. (runs on Duracell)

Its electrified and so has a larger chance of killing.

Also does anyone else think the Tau brainwashed the Vespid?

Yes i do belive this, The Tau simply needed a race of killers that could fly around shooting things up more efficiently than a big cumbersome crisis suit. why build something to do the job when there are populations of aliens that do this anyway.

 

[Neosage]

Actually the Druchii are noted as being overall probably the most evil race, and it doesn't say that in sixth edition.

Dark elves are just continuing on the path originally laid out for the elven race by asuryan, skaven are genuinely bastards to everyone else because they want to be.

And yes it does.

Druchii are sadistic, they use torture and murder for art and pleasure. Skaven are just scheming little buggers all though I will admit some of them most definatley are evil (infact most races can have good guys and bad guys in.) Also on which page does it say Orcs are from spores?

 

[ward.]

I have some weapon related question for anyone who can answer them:
Why are bolt weapons sometimes depicted as machine guns when they are supposed to fire explosive rounds?
Is a lascannon just a big lasgun?
What does a power sword do differently than a normal sword?

Thanks

1. They're always depicted as machine gun esq, the smaller versions you might have seen would be a bolt pistol or you could have them confused with heavy bolter.
2. Not really, in the same way a bazooka isn't just a big roman candle.
3. It has a powerfield.

Is it even remotely possible to defeat a 'nid army as Orks? (tabletop game).

Because too me these two races seem very similar to each other but the 'nids are just better.

Yes, orks can do some pretty heinous things, for reference look up biker hordes.

 

[ward.]

Druchii are sadistic, they use torture and murder for art and pleasure. Skaven are just scheming little buggers all though I will admit some of them most definatley are evil (infact most races can have good guys and bad guys in.) Also on which page does it say Orcs are from spores?

That doesn't automatically make them evil, for the most part druichi society is pretty relaxed.
Skaven society on the other hand, is a brutal caste system that turns out a far higher body count then every other evil race combined.

I don't have my 6th edition book on hand at the moment (being 7th edition and all) but it's in one of the grey background boxes that was spread throughout the book.

I should be able to get the exact page reference eventually though.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

Why is Chaos so badass? When will GW admit Chaos is the epitome of badass? Why do spikes make one feel more manly? Ah the questions of 40K. Oh yes and Death to the False Emperor...who is pretty much dead anyways so yeah. Take that corpse God.

 

[stickadtroja]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil? ARE they evil or just misunderstood?
i mean the Necrons hate all life and want to stop it but thats only an evil motive if you assume living = good. the Chaos on the other hand doesn't seem to have any motive at all. they just pure evil. which doesn't makes sense.
does GW anywhere explains the purpuse, motives and goals for the Chaos except stating that they are the ultimate evil?

this really interested me too so i read a bit about it a while ago(i havent read too much about the fluff so take this with a grain of salt

I think i read that the warp (and the chaos gods as a consequence) are strongly influenced by the emotions of sentient creatures(not orks and tau). Once when there was no or almost no higher evolved life the warp was calm. But as civilisations grew and populations rose their imprint on the warp increased as well. What menas: emotions(good or bad) fuel the beings of the warp. The more emotions of a certain kind amass in the materium the more "fuel" the beings of the warp connected to it get and the more powerful they become.
The eldar(as psychers with a strong warp presence) started their great fall to decadence and polluted the warp with hatred, sadism and insanity until they created a new god connected to the crazy marquis-de-sade-lifestyle they had led (most of them died and the rest lives an incredibly disciplined live to minimise their impact on the warp...and not to get their souls eaten by said god).
Humans leave a way smaller imprint on the warp but there's trillions of them, living in a totalitarian system full of religious fanatics with suffering, greed and war all around them. OM NOM NOM for chaos.

According to the starting thesis, when humans would try to live lives of discipline and peace controlling their emotions the would no longer fuel the malign energies of the warp. Maybe the warp would even calm a bit, there were less daemons and the 'evil' chaos gods would loose their power. the 4 greater powers could the gods of hope, honour, love and permanence once again.
Well but that is quite impossible I think. the imperium cannot change itself to such extent. It needs to keep that form to survie, what would mean (oh the irony!) the longer it holds out aginst chaos and the more desperatly it fights for survival the more powerful the negative sides of the warp become.
I think the Necron have a simliar approach to this.
Chaos(the polluted immaterium)owered by the emotion of (sentient) life
plan of action:
1) kill all sentient life
2)kill flowers, moss and bacteria, just to be sure
3)the warp is calm again
4)profit!

well this makes sense... the warp is just a big mirror wich reflects the extremes of our emotions. but then doens't that take away a lot of the divinity in the Chaos Gods? i wouldn't call them gods even, just manifistations of the warp. "God" implies a superior, intelligent, self-aware being and i don't see how this could be created by an allnatural-phenomena like the warp? because this isn't about sins and judgement since the tau and orks doesn't affect it.

 

[Steve Dark]

The Lastest fluff puts the Imperium in the time of ending as the Golden Throne is malfuncitoning and unless they find an STC or some similary powerfull artifact from the Dark Age of Tech they will be destroyed.

Woah woah woah, time of ending? Since when and what has the golden throne been malfunctioning? I've completely missed that happening...

 

[Rajin Cajun]

The Lastest fluff puts the Imperium in the time of ending as the Golden Throne is malfuncitoning and unless they find an STC or some similary powerfull artifact from the Dark Age of Tech they will be destroyed.

Woah woah woah, time of ending? Since when and what has the golden throne been malfunctioning? I've completely missed that happening...

It is rather recent addition to the fluff after they retconned the Star Child theory.

 

[MCGT]

Because they're the embodiment of the worst aspects of human/ sentient races brought to extremes.

They're not actually evil, no warhammer race is hard and fast evil, perhaps minus the skaven.

you make a good point, name all the dark forces from the 40k universe and they arent exactly pure evil...

the chaos are just insane (the insane aren't techinically evil)

the dark eldar are warped, but i question this... they seem to be the only race you could easily call evil by what they do...

the Necrons arent really even in control of their actions (isnt that they were double crossed on a deal with a god, now they do what he says?)

the tau arent even that bad, often turning to the worst enemies then to the better, well in theory at least (so taking on the chaos instead of the imperials)

and the Eldar are fighting for survival so they have a cause behind their ways.

the orcs just want war (thats not so evil... right?)

the tyranids are just instinctual, they are doing what they do... (its like being angry at a bee cause it stung you, its a bee, it will sting.)

In another way, you could look at any of the races and call them evil. That's one of the reasons the setting is grimdark.

 

[Rolling Thunder]

The tau are currently getting twitchy due to the Imperial reclaimation of the worlds they conquered. Grinding attrition beats silly technology any day. Most fun. Sending six hundred men to their deaths so that 200 of them can climb over the mountain of bodies and take the hill from the filthy xenos...most fun.

Of course, the hill blew up afterwards, so now we're fighting over a giant crater....

 

[The Medic Who Ubered The World]

well this makes sense... the warp is just a big mirror wich reflects the extremes of our emotions. but then doens't that take away a lot of the divinity in the Chaos Gods? i wouldn't call them gods even, just manifistations of the warp. "God" implies a superior, intelligent, self-aware being and i don't see how this could be created by an allnatural-phenomena like the warp? because this isn't about sins and judgement since the tau and orks doesn't affect it.

It seems a bit anticlimatic at first. Humans, eldar and other species have created them and given them power. But it has the nice touch that people are not killed for their sins but BY their 'sins'(as daemons in physical form who rip them to pieces). It would be cool to see a Space Marine overcome by negative emotions for a short moment while fighting on a world beset by chaos (where the boundaries between materium and immaterium are weak). The power of his negative emotions could create who knows how many 'personal' daemons which could join the fight against him or try to find their 'father' in the warp whenever he travels through it(in some kind of multidimensional oedipus-complex) Whoops, my imagination runs amuk

Back ontopic: I also was quite disappointed when I read more about the chaos gods. The do not really feel like omniscent enigmatic beings from 'beyond' which are not even understood by their minions (in a Lovecraftian way). Of course, they are incredibly powerful and might know anything connected to the emotion they embody and much more, but something's missing... They feel more like moustache twirling baddies :/(what does not help when you face their power)

 

[iain62a]

this could be really basic but i don't know, so; Why are the Chaos gods evil? ARE they evil or just misunderstood?
i mean the Necrons hate all life and want to stop it but thats only an evil motive if you assume living = good. the Chaos on the other hand doesn't seem to have any motive at all. they just pure evil. which doesn't makes sense.
does GW anywhere explains the purpuse, motives and goals for the Chaos except stating that they are the ultimate evil?

this really interested me too so i read a bit about it a while ago(i havent read too much about the fluff so take this with a grain of salt

I think i read that the warp (and the chaos gods as a consequence) are strongly influenced by the emotions of sentient creatures(not orks and tau). Once when there was no or almost no higher evolved life the warp was calm. But as civilisations grew and populations rose their imprint on the warp increased as well. What menas: emotions(good or bad) fuel the beings of the warp. The more emotions of a certain kind amass in the materium the more "fuel" the beings of the warp connected to it get and the more powerful they become.
The eldar(as psychers with a strong warp presence) started their great fall to decadence and polluted the warp with hatred, sadism and insanity until they created a new god connected to the crazy marquis-de-sade-lifestyle they had led (most of them died and the rest lives an incredibly disciplined live to minimise their impact on the warp...and not to get their souls eaten by said god).
Humans leave a way smaller imprint on the warp but there's trillions of them, living in a totalitarian system full of religious fanatics with suffering, greed and war all around them. OM NOM NOM for chaos.

According to the starting thesis, when humans would try to live lives of discipline and peace controlling their emotions the would no longer fuel the malign energies of the warp. Maybe the warp would even calm a bit, there were less daemons and the 'evil' chaos gods would loose their power. the 4 greater powers could the gods of hope, honour, love and permanence once again.
Well but that is quite impossible I think. the imperium cannot change itself to such extent. It needs to keep that form to survie, what would mean (oh the irony!) the longer it holds out aginst chaos and the more desperatly it fights for survival the more powerful the negative sides of the warp become.
I think the Necron have a simliar approach to this.
Chaos(the polluted immaterium)owered by the emotion of (sentient) life
plan of action:
1) kill all sentient life
2)kill flowers, moss and bacteria, just to be sure
3)the warp is calm again
4)profit!

well this makes sense... the warp is just a big mirror wich reflects the extremes of our emotions. but then doens't that take away a lot of the divinity in the Chaos Gods? i wouldn't call them gods even, just manifistations of the warp. "God" implies a superior, intelligent, self-aware being and i don't see how this could be created by an allnatural-phenomena like the warp? because this isn't about sins and judgement since the tau and orks doesn't affect it.

The Chaos Gods are all self-aware. Says so in the fluff.

 

[dekkarax]

Whatever Happened to Malal? Malal was the fifth Chaos god, and represented Chaos' destructive tendencies, even to itself; as such, the followers of Malal would go around attacking other followers of Chaos.
What is the difference between Gork and Mork?
If you gave an Ork a stick, and then convinced it that said stick was in fact a gun, would it fire Bullets?

 

[The Medic Who Ubered The World]

What is the difference between Gork and Mork?

One of them is cunningly brutal while the other is brutally cunning. i.e.:

Mork hits you when you aren't looking and Gork hits you harder when you are.

...or was it the other way round?

 

[Steve Dark]

The Lastest fluff puts the Imperium in the time of ending as the Golden Throne is malfuncitoning and unless they find an STC or some similary powerfull artifact from the Dark Age of Tech they will be destroyed.

Woah woah woah, time of ending? Since when and what has the golden throne been malfunctioning? I've completely missed that happening...

It is rather recent addition to the fluff after they retconned the Star Child theory.

Interesting... and when and in what did they do this?