The Victims of Homosexuality

[Relish in Chaos]

You know, sometimes discriminators should look at themselves in the mirror. EVERYONE is different, and just because you're a minority doesn't make you any more different or socially wrong than the next person.

Also, people in the 21st century should be educated enough to know that sex does not equal having children, because the primary reason throughout history have sex is for pleasure. So don't tell me that homosexuality is wrong because they can't make children, because that's by far not the only reason people have sex, and if you think it is, then you must've been sitting under a rock for your entire life. It makes you an outdated, zealotic homophobe who's probably been listening to bigoted, old-fashioned parents and sexually repressed priests with small minds and big egos who want everyone to conform to preconceived gender stereotypes.

Furthermore, sexuality isn't as black and white as society wants to tell us. Even a guy who claims that he's the most heterosexual man in the world may, somewhere down the line, actually realize that he's bisexual, pansexual or asexual. I don't know how, but it happens. Hormones and stuff. Just like a woman that has sex with other women may not necessarily identify as lesbian or bisexual, or indeed any sexuality in general. Or someone might identify as asexual, yet have a fetish for girls pissing on him or something. Because they're just labels used to restrict a vast, fluid and grey world of sexual preferences and behaviours.

 

[Slayer_2]

I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but my religion is against homosexuality. That being said, I do not agree with all the hate mongering morons who think that just because they think something is wrong, they can persecute and torment them. They cannot. That is not your right. People, no matter their faults, are human beings. And as such I will treat anyone like a person, with compassion and understanding, whether I agree with their lifestyle or not. You can't change my beliefs, so don't even try, but when people try to take away the freedom to do what they want, that makes me angry. So I am fully in favor of bills that give more rights to people, such as gay marriage, because I don't think it's the governments business to oppose peoples immortal right to choose.

Now, before you bombard me with a flurry of "but they don't get to choose" comments, because I know you will, while I do think it's a choice, I obviously don't think people just get out of bed one day and say "well, I'm gonna be gay." It doesn't work like that. It's something they tend to deal with their entire lives, and I am in no way saying it's easy to fight it. But I can tell you multiple stories of people who were gay and changed their lives. Too many people assume that because most people can't or won't do it, that no one can. I've seen incredibly gay men turn around and raise entire families. It's possible no matter how much you deny it. They weren't "brain washed", as most people will be convinced of, they were given options to help them and they chose to do so. Once again, it all comes down to choice, and being given those choices. Anyway, I'll stop here and wait for the inevitable flux of people disagreeing with me.

OK, I'm getting mixed messages here, so I'm going to tread carefully. Let me start by asking you this, just to clarify: Do you think homosexuality is inherently and morally wrong?

Whats to be confused about? Or is the confusing part that he said he doesn't agree with all the hate mongering morons? Is that where the confusion comes in? Cause thats pretty much the only thing I ever see anywhere, including these boards. "I don't like homosexuality" "HOMOPHOBE!" "No, I just think its morally wrong" "YOU BIGOT!" "Look, you can do whatever you want in your own bedroom, just me personally and my religious convictions think its a sin to act upon homosexual tendencies" "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTEEEEEEEEEE MONNNNNNGEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRR!"

Cause thats what it usually boils down to. Anyone who has anything but praise and acceptance for the homosexual lifestyle is labeled a hater no matter what they say.

This made me laugh. If you don't have acceptance for it YOU ARE BY DEFINITION A HATER you fucking moron. Praise? Fair enough, don't have to agree with it but as soon as you refuse to accept it in others You are (and I hope I'm not overstating this point) BY DEFINITION A HATER!
God, If you're homophobic at least admit it, don't try and cover it up with moronic reasons as to why people who aren't homophobes are persecuting you.

Great way to help the cause, bud. You'd think someone who supports the choice to decide what gender you want to bone would understand that not everything is black or white. But, by all means, be an ass, see how well that works for you.

Dude, I'm Bisexual, I know it isn't black or white. But the definition of a homophobe is someone who hates or refuses to accepts gay/Bi people. And he just said he doesn't accept gay people. Can you see where this is going?

Not understanding or liking something doesn't equal hating it. It can lead to it, in small minded people. As long as the person isn't restricting your rights or harming you, they really shouldn't bother you. It's his opinion, if he said he didn't like me based off of the fact that I have brown hair, I really wouldn't care, it's his choice and freedom to say that. If he said he hated me because of my hair, and thought I should die, then I might care.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I hate to just throw this out on the internet, but my father came out of the closet when I was 6. My sexual development was made all the more confusing and I was ridiculed by those who found out.

So thanks for that.

How is that your father's fault? Would you rather he suffer within himself due to loneliness, frustration and repression, perhaps even leading to suicide?

I'm sorry that you were ridiculed, but that can't be helped in such a shitty society like this. The only reason your sexual development was confusing in the first place is because of the collapsed society we live in that tries to brainwash children into believing heterosexuality is the one and only norm with no room for other vibrant sexualities.

If you want to blame someone, blame society and the idiots it spawned who picked on you just because your father happened to be different and couldn't bottle up such a life-impacting secret for much longer. It was better in the long run, because surely you'd want him to be happy and not start self-harming as a result of something that he has no control over.

 

[omega 616]

snip

No, the real victims are the average to intelligent people out there, who is this rather aggressive rant aimed at exactly? I assume people who hate any other sexuality except straight, do you think that rant will show them the right path? Do you think they are going to see the light and become the converted, then hug and be friends with gay/bi people?

No! They have there opinion and nothing some random user name is going to say is going the change that opinion. Even close friends and family of the hater isn't going to change there opinion.

Is this rant aimed at people who are perfectly okay with gay people? I bet not.

Is this rant aimed at gay people? Well the speech says no but at one put you put "homosexuals" like you are addressing them, so who knows.

You might as well walk into a christian church and bible bash christian's into believing in god 'cos anybody who aggressively talks about gays being anything other than okay on this site is either going to be lynched via quotes and/or mod wrathed.

Personally if you like both or the same sex good for you, I couldn't give less of a fuck. What you do to any consenting adult is between you and that person.

 

[Rallus]

You're pretty much preaching to a choir here.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

But wouldn't you agreeing with that make you just as bad as the bigots in the first place?

Hmm.. could you explain that further?

Well, hate is the issue; so you hating on someone for their beliefs makes you, in a way, as much of a problem as them. Sure, in our eyes we are right and have the moral high ground, but ultimately it is all subjective.

So long as we all hate (just like I do, despite my best efforts at times) we can't all be happy together. Two way street and all that.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

I hate to just throw this out on the internet, but my father came out of the closet when I was 6. My sexual development was made all the more confusing and I was ridiculed by those who found out.

So thanks for that.

How is that your father's fault? Would you rather he suffer within himself due to loneliness, frustration and repression, perhaps even leading to suicide?

No.

But did he have to have KIDS beforehand?

I suffered because he couldn't figure out what he wanted beforehand, and because he wasn't man enough to stand up. He waited until my grandmother was in the ground and then he went for the lifestyle he wanted without thinking about anyone else for a second.

And it IS a lifestyle we are talking about here. This wasn't just about sexual preference, this was about the culture that he joined into, alien to me and my friends, yet putting me in awkward spots of explaining myself and broaching a topic I shouldn't have been concerned about at all.

The moral here is that everything, EVERYTHING you do, has consequences, if not for yourself then for others around you. He could've chosen to be a drug addict or a criminal, which would surely have effected my life worse. But to say that homosexuals are completely innocent and free of the consequences of their decisions is wrong.

A) you are talking about one homosexual, not all homosexuals.

B) your father didn't cause the problems. The people who gave you a hard time and who make homosexuality seem like a bad thing, a strange thing or even just a 'different thing' are the problem. If the world saw homosexuality as just as common and acceptable, the better. People still see heterosexuality as the default and any sexuality other than that to be a variation. In reality, every sexual preference is equal.

C) you act as if this was done to you. You speak as if your father's sexuality is an attack against you. You speak entirely about you. All I see in your comments is selfish anger.

 

[rednose1]

Well, I may not get much love for this, but hey, gotta love anonymity. I find being gay to be morally wrong. My views are based off my religious beliefs, and one of those is that it is wrong to be gay.

Now, if you've managed to not call me a hate filled bigot, I thank you, because, I'm not. People have given this so much attention because of all the depression and suicides, particulary among teenagers, resulting in anti gay bullying. I think we are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here. It's not the anti gay part, but the bullying in general. There used to be room for discourse and debate, but now it seems everyone believes, "you are either with us, or against us." I'm not against gay people, I just believe it isn't morally right. When my friends/family make a mistake, I don't belittle/disown them, I understand it is a mistake. If they don't think what they did is a mistake, well, then we have a difference of opinions, not the start of protests and name-calling.

I don't have any easy anwser for homosexuality, but I don't think "just shut up and accept it." is a viable one either. As long as we have hate-filled rants (on both sides) nothing productive can get done, meanwhile kids are killing themselves over the torment they recieve. While the debate continues on, can we at least work to try and take care of bullying in general, not just for gay teens? Regular teenagers are being bullied as well, and responding with suicide (or shooting their tormentors). Granted, it's not the same amount as those singled out for being gay,but it's still lives lost.

I think one of the problems is that your side (the religious side) can't offer up any reason why being gay is actually bad, other than 'my god said so'. Not sure how one can debate against that, lol.

Not that homosexual hatred exists solely in religion, mind.

Well, since this is a discussion that has its roots in a persons moral beliefs, wouldn't "my god says so" be a legitimate reason?

 

[217not237]

Preaching to the choir. The Escapist is almost entirely accepting of homosexuality, so I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve. And, besides, people that are such dicks as to say it's wrong are beyond help. I do agree with what was said, though.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Well, I may not get much love for this, but hey, gotta love anonymity. I find being gay to be morally wrong. My views are based off my religious beliefs, and one of those is that it is wrong to be gay.

Now, if you've managed to not call me a hate filled bigot, I thank you, because, I'm not. People have given this so much attention because of all the depression and suicides, particulary among teenagers, resulting in anti gay bullying. I think we are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here. It's not the anti gay part, but the bullying in general. There used to be room for discourse and debate, but now it seems everyone believes, "you are either with us, or against us." I'm not against gay people, I just believe it isn't morally right. When my friends/family make a mistake, I don't belittle/disown them, I understand it is a mistake. If they don't think what they did is a mistake, well, then we have a difference of opinions, not the start of protests and name-calling.

I don't have any easy anwser for homosexuality, but I don't think "just shut up and accept it." is a viable one either. As long as we have hate-filled rants (on both sides) nothing productive can get done, meanwhile kids are killing themselves over the torment they recieve. While the debate continues on, can we at least work to try and take care of bullying in general, not just for gay teens? Regular teenagers are being bullied as well, and responding with suicide (or shooting their tormentors). Granted, it's not the same amount as those singled out for being gay,but it's still lives lost.

I think one of the problems is that your side (the religious side) can't offer up any reason why being gay is actually bad, other than 'my god said so'. Not sure how one can debate against that, lol.

Not that homosexual hatred exists solely in religion, mind.

Well, since this is a discussion that has its roots in a persons moral beliefs, wouldn't "my god says so" be a legitimate reason?

God no! [/pun] You cannot allow people to palm off responsibility for their beliefs or actions. Excusing your way out of taking personal ownership of your actions is a dangerous path. It also shows a massive lack of intelligence, that someone has nothing at all to support their morality other than a religious source they cannot prove was even written by the people who are claimed to have written it. It's... mind boggling.

Besides, we as a species will get no where if people point to their invisible friends any time someone asks a question; "god" isn't an answer with any worth. Provide demonstrable reason that can be tested, correlated and proven. If you allow people to use worm excuses like that, you allow it for anything.

 

[rednose1]

Well, I may not get much love for this, but hey, gotta love anonymity. I find being gay to be morally wrong. My views are based off my religious beliefs, and one of those is that it is wrong to be gay.

Now, if you've managed to not call me a hate filled bigot, I thank you, because, I'm not. People have given this so much attention because of all the depression and suicides, particulary among teenagers, resulting in anti gay bullying. I think we are focusing on the wrong aspect of the problem here. It's not the anti gay part, but the bullying in general. There used to be room for discourse and debate, but now it seems everyone believes, "you are either with us, or against us." I'm not against gay people, I just believe it isn't morally right. When my friends/family make a mistake, I don't belittle/disown them, I understand it is a mistake. If they don't think what they did is a mistake, well, then we have a difference of opinions, not the start of protests and name-calling.

I don't have any easy anwser for homosexuality, but I don't think "just shut up and accept it." is a viable one either. As long as we have hate-filled rants (on both sides) nothing productive can get done, meanwhile kids are killing themselves over the torment they recieve. While the debate continues on, can we at least work to try and take care of bullying in general, not just for gay teens? Regular teenagers are being bullied as well, and responding with suicide (or shooting their tormentors). Granted, it's not the same amount as those singled out for being gay,but it's still lives lost.

I think one of the problems is that your side (the religious side) can't offer up any reason why being gay is actually bad, other than 'my god said so'. Not sure how one can debate against that, lol.

Not that homosexual hatred exists solely in religion, mind.

Well, since this is a discussion that has its roots in a persons moral beliefs, wouldn't "my god says so" be a legitimate reason?

God no! [/pun] You cannot allow people to palm off responsibility for their beliefs or actions. Excusing your way out of taking personal ownership of your actions is a dangerous path. It also shows a massive lack of intelligence, that someone has nothing at all to support their morality other than a religious source they cannot prove was even written by the people who are claimed to have written it. It's... mind boggling.

Besides, we as a species will get no where if people point to their invisible friends any time someone asks a question; "god" isn't an answer with any worth. Provide demonstrable reason that can be tested, correlated and proven. If you allow people to use worm excuses like that, you allow it for anything.

Well, my actions are to say being gay is morally wrong. I take full responsiblity for that. It is how I was raised, and it is something I believe in. As to the massive lack of intelligence, why? The debate about whether god exists or not isn't the issue here, if you like, we can have that in another thread. My question is, how does having a moral grounding based off religion make me (or anyone else) that much lacking in the brains department? As to not being able to prove who wrote what religious text....would that matter for you? Would that somehow make the goals of my religion of living a peaceful life, doing no harm to others, respecting my parents and adults in general, and helping others who ask for help in achieveing the same for themselves more acceptable for you? Maybe it's the part where I give praise and honor where it is due, or how I try to accomplish these things in ways my God put forth that you have a difficult time with. Thats fine is so. I believe in my religion. You don't have to. The fact that you don't doesn't mean you are "right/smarter" than me, it simply makes you someone with a differing opinion.

 

[MrThisguy978]

this thread is completely homosexual
and thats AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWRIGHTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

 

[Valanthe]

I'd expected something rather different from the title and was expecting to strongly disagree with the OP.

As had I, and I must say, this one of those rare times when I am very glad to have been proven wrong. Though I find it very saddening that this sentiment still needs saying, thank you, OP, for saying it anyway.

 

[Yopaz]

Well put, but The Escapist is mostly a gay friendly community so this might not be the best place to post it. Though posting it on a gay hating website wouldn't do anything good either.

 

[Random Fella]

Oh boy it's this thread again
Seriously, I don't hate homosexuals, so why do you keep bothering me with these "Leave the homosexuals alone!" threads?
It's already been established very much on the escapist that we are tolerant of homosexuals in various polls and threads like these
This is really the only thing I am against of homosexuals, the in your face attitude that they need to have about their homosexuality at times, trying to empower themselves in front of people they don't need to.

Also the title is quite misleading

Also, advertisement Capacha? What?

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Religion comes from the period of human prehistory where nobody--not even the mighty Democritus who concluded that all matter was made from atoms--had the smallest idea what was going on. It comes from the bawling and fearful infancy of our species, and is a babyish attempt to meet our inescapable demand for knowledge (as well as for comfort, reassurance, and other infantile needs). Today the least educated of my children knows much more about the natural order than any of the founders of religion.

- Christopher Hitchens

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.

- Christopher Hitchens

Faith is the surrender of the mind; it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It's our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated.

Christopher Hitchens

Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence what so ever.

- Sam Harris

I believe those quotes nicely sum up why hating, condemning, disliking, rubbishing or otherwise treating homosexuals (or anyone else) differently because you were raised to believe in an invisible, unproveable sky god is absurd. How anyone can use that to defend an opinion as ludicrous as a certain types of harmless sexuality being amoral and wicked is beyond me. People who have committed no actual wrong are seen as sinners and as damned people who need to be saved because you think there's a god and they might dislike it? You're willing to base an opinion on something that has no evidence at all to support it? On something you believe solely because you were raised in a community (or household, or country, etc.) that contains therein that religion? Christ, go back a thousand years and you would have been raised to worship the sun and to pray to one of a dozen gods to make the sea less turbulent. Christianity is a very young religion and it, just like all those before it, will fade away. Is that the kind of think you want to base a deep, important personal belief on? A story you are TOLD is true?

"Oh, I'm sorry, Stacy. You're a lesbian and if you don't change your wicked ways and accept my god, you will go to Hell for eternity. How do I know? My parents told me so and they read a book about it."

That, my friends, is horrid.

Oh boy it's this thread again
Seriously, I don't hate homosexuals, so why do you keep bothering me with these "Leave the homosexuals alone!" threads?
It's already been established very much on the escapist that we are tolerant of homosexuals in various polls and threads like these
This is really the only thing I am against of homosexuals, the in your face attitude that they need to have about their homosexuality at times, trying to empower themselves in front of people they don't need to.

Also the title is quite misleading

Also, advertisement Capacha? What?

If you took a look at some of the forum threads, even this one, you would see people saying homosexuals are bad. I just quoted one of them above--and the Jimquisition video on the new Mass Effect game is also full of people talking about how horrid homosexuality is.

Just because YOU aren't being effected by it doesn't mean it's not here.

 

[Random Fella]

snip

Yeah, a few people, I said the escapist as a whole is tolerant of homosexuals, because people that are against homosexuality are quickly dealt with in response quotes.
Also I was saying these threads happen way too much, I see the same thread about the same topic come up week after week, it's a little ridiculous how many threads need to be made over one matter, even one this big doesn't need to be told to me this much.
As I said, this subject is just repeated, the OT is always the same and the comments are always the same in general.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

snip

Yeah, a few people, I said the escapist as a whole is tolerant of homosexuals, because people that are against homosexuality are quickly dealt with in response quotes.
Also I was saying these threads happen way too much, I see the same thread about the same topic come up week after week, it's a little ridiculous how many threads need to be made over one matter, even one this big doesn't need to be told to me this much.
As I said, this subject is just repeated, the OT is always the same and the comments are always the same in general.

And still the problem persists.

 

[Random Fella]

snip

Yeah, a few people, I said the escapist as a whole is tolerant of homosexuals, because people that are against homosexuality are quickly dealt with in response quotes.
Also I was saying these threads happen way too much, I see the same thread about the same topic come up week after week, it's a little ridiculous how many threads need to be made over one matter, even one this big doesn't need to be told to me this much.
As I said, this subject is just repeated, the OT is always the same and the comments are always the same in general.

And still the problem persists.

What problem?
A few homophobes in a crowd of tolerant others?
Seriously, in the Escapist community, there is hardly a problem, as anyone who even makes a slightly homophobic comment is immediately shot down.
Your argument is extremely vague.