The White Male

[Ariseishirou]

This is a pretty dead-horse topic, but yeah, it's not just "white guys" that are overplayed, it's a very specific _kind_ of white guy (elsewhere called "Steve", I think). He's late 20s-30s, dark-haired, stubbly, grizzled, tall, athletic, straight, American, and with an angsty backstory.

Any white guy younger/older than this? Naawww. He's out. Blonde/red-haired? Out. Clean-shaven? Out. Baby-faced? Out. Scrawny or chubby? Out. Disabled? Out. Bi/gay? Out. Russian or French? Out. Happy, well-adjusted childhood? Out.

It's not "white guys" that are overdone - I'd love to see a blond-haired, scrawny, gay Russian in his teens or early 20s as a video game protagonist (maybe he's a hacker? maybe he's part of a counter-culture revolutionary underground? maybe he's a recent immigrant who fled the country due to discrimination?) - it's That One White Guy, The Video Game Protagonist. It is so boring at this point I could puke.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

All you need is keep the dubbing in other languages from around the world and have separate subtitles. That way you can have your white guy speaking German or Spanish and have English subtitles. Solved.

 

[Thaluikhain]

This is a pretty dead-horse topic, but yeah, it's not just "white guys" that are overplayed, it's a very specific _kind_ of white guy (elsewhere called "Steve", I think). He's late 20s-30s, dark-haired, stubbly, grizzled, tall, athletic, straight, American, and with an angsty backstory.

Any white guy younger/older than this? Naawww. He's out. Blonde/red-haired? Out. Clean-shaven? Out. Baby-faced? Out. Scrawny or chubby? Out. Disabled? Out. Bi/gay? Out. Russian or French? Out. Happy, well-adjusted childhood? Out.

It's not "white guys" that are overdone - I'd love to see a blond-haired, scrawny, gay Russian in his teens or early 20s as a video game protagonist (maybe he's a hacker? maybe he's part of a counter-culture revolutionary underground? maybe he's a recent immigrant who fled the country due to discrimination?) - it's That One White Guy, The Video Game Protagonist. It is so boring at this point I could puke.

Certainly, true, but there's also plenty of room for people who aren't white males at all that we don't tend to see.

 

[Piorn]

I don't need more diversity of any form in movies. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If a character looks like that, the character looks like that.
If you're making a movie, where the race or gender of the character don't factor in the narrative at all, then I don't need it to be a specific race or gender. I literally don't care. Do whatever you want!
Sure, if you make a historical movie about a slave in america, then make him black. If you make a movie about a european knight, then make him male.
But if you're making a movie in our current time, then who the hell cares what the protagonist looks like? Tony Stark never used his white skin to figure something out at the end of the plot. It doesn't matter if Hulk is green or purple, he smashes stuff. It wouldn't matter if Rocket Raccoon was a badger, literally all that'd change would be the name!
It. doesn't. matter.

 

[Ariseishirou]

This is a pretty dead-horse topic, but yeah, it's not just "white guys" that are overplayed, it's a very specific _kind_ of white guy (elsewhere called "Steve", I think). He's late 20s-30s, dark-haired, stubbly, grizzled, tall, athletic, straight, American, and with an angsty backstory.

Any white guy younger/older than this? Naawww. He's out. Blonde/red-haired? Out. Clean-shaven? Out. Baby-faced? Out. Scrawny or chubby? Out. Disabled? Out. Bi/gay? Out. Russian or French? Out. Happy, well-adjusted childhood? Out.

It's not "white guys" that are overdone - I'd love to see a blond-haired, scrawny, gay Russian in his teens or early 20s as a video game protagonist (maybe he's a hacker? maybe he's part of a counter-culture revolutionary underground? maybe he's a recent immigrant who fled the country due to discrimination?) - it's That One White Guy, The Video Game Protagonist. It is so boring at this point I could puke.

Certainly, true, but there's also plenty of room for people who aren't white males at all that we don't tend to see.

Oh yeah I agree completely, but saying you'd like to see more people who aren't white men tends to have people repeat the tired old "well that's the biggest gaming demographic line" at you (sure, maybe for some games, but I personally guarantee you that Steve, The Video Game Protagonist doesn't represent all of them either so that's a moot point) at best, smear you as an "SJW" at worst and I don't feel like getting into that particular shitshow (again).

 

[inmunitas]

This is a pretty dead-horse topic, but yeah, it's not just "white guys" that are overplayed, it's a very specific _kind_ of white guy (elsewhere called "Steve", I think). He's late 20s-30s, dark-haired, stubbly, grizzled, tall, athletic, straight, American, and with an angsty backstory.

Any white guy younger/older than this? Naawww. He's out. Blonde/red-haired? Out. Clean-shaven? Out. Baby-faced? Out. Scrawny or chubby? Out. Disabled? Out. Bi/gay? Out. Russian or French? Out. Happy, well-adjusted childhood? Out.

It's not "white guys" that are overdone - I'd love to see a blond-haired, scrawny, gay Russian in his teens or early 20s as a video game protagonist (maybe he's a hacker? maybe he's part of a counter-culture revolutionary underground? maybe he's a recent immigrant who fled the country due to discrimination?) - it's That One White Guy, The Video Game Protagonist. It is so boring at this point I could puke.

Certainly, true, but there's also plenty of room for people who aren't white males at all that we don't tend to see.

Why don't you watch some films not made in America then? People in other countries and cultures around the world make films also you know? All you need to do is look for them.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't need more diversity of any form in movies. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If a character looks like that, the character looks like that.
If you're making a movie, where the race or gender of the character don't factor in the narrative at all, then I don't need it to be a specific race or gender. I literally don't care. Do whatever you want!
Sure, if you make a historical movie about a slave in america, then make him black. If you make a movie about a european knight, then make him male.
But if you're making a movie in our current time, then who the hell cares what the protagonist looks like? Tony Stark never used his white skin to figure something out at the end of the plot. It doesn't matter if Hulk is green or purple, he smashes stuff. It wouldn't matter if Rocket Raccoon was a badger, literally all that'd change would be the name!
It. doesn't. matter.

So, if movies were to be made exclusively about, say, black women from now on (excepting when/if someone made a movie that couldn't be), you'd have no problem with that?

Oh yeah I agree completely, but saying you'd like to see more people who aren't white men tends to have people repeat the tired old "well that's the biggest gaming demographic line" at you (sure, maybe for some games, but I personally guarantee you that Steve, The Video Game Protagonist doesn't represent all of them either so that's a moot point) at best, smear you as an "SJW" at worst and I don't feel like getting into that particular shitshow (again).

There is that, yes.

 

[Pr0]

So how was Unearthed: Trail of Ibn Battuta? I mean obviously if your criteria for good characters is non-white/non-American protagonists that game should have you covered.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

For people that like the other X-men, it can get kind of annoying that up until Marvel got picked up by Disney and started focusing more on the movies and Avengers, Wolverine was kind of shoved into a lot of story lines, even story lines separate from the X-Men, for a good 15-20 years pretty much every marvel character and team can guarantee that they would team up with Wolverine for at least one storyline, no matter how much they have to stretch the premise to make it happen.

I'm now imagining Disney forcing him into Frozen 2.

"Hey Logan, do you want to build a snowman?"

"RRAAAGGGHH Memory loss! Adamantium clawwwwwws!"

"...I'll take that as a no then."

"I'm the best at what I do, and what I do is not build snowmen." *Manly tortured scream while falling to knees*

 

[Piorn]

I don't need more diversity of any form in movies. Why? Because it doesn't matter. If a character looks like that, the character looks like that.
If you're making a movie, where the race or gender of the character don't factor in the narrative at all, then I don't need it to be a specific race or gender. I literally don't care. Do whatever you want!
Sure, if you make a historical movie about a slave in america, then make him black. If you make a movie about a european knight, then make him male.
But if you're making a movie in our current time, then who the hell cares what the protagonist looks like? Tony Stark never used his white skin to figure something out at the end of the plot. It doesn't matter if Hulk is green or purple, he smashes stuff. It wouldn't matter if Rocket Raccoon was a badger, literally all that'd change would be the name!
It. doesn't. matter.

So, if movies were to be made exclusively about, say, black women from now on (excepting when/if someone made a movie that couldn't be), you'd have no problem with that?

If it's just starring black women, like an Avengers super hero team involving several flavors of Superheroes, then sure, why not? Sounds great!
As long as the genre fits, the gender doesn't matter.

It'd be difficult to pitch though, because marketing would have to decide on an approach, and it would certainly not be gender neutral. As long as they're doing cool super hero things it'd be fine, but you just KNOW they'll either make it a soft-porn movie for teenage boys, with skimpy amazonian outfits and stuff like that, or a superhero theme subversion comedy movie, which both make the race and gender of the characters a focal point.
Or they'd downright market it as "black female Avengers", as if Avengers is the default, and "black" and "female" are important modifiers. Whatever happened to the "female" Ghostbusters, anyways?

I feel like I'm just very cynical about marketing.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If it's just starring black women, like an Avengers super hero team involving several flavors of Superheroes, then sure, why not? Sounds great!
As long as the genre fits, the gender doesn't matter.

It'd be difficult to pitch though, because marketing would have to decide on an approach, and it would certainly not be gender neutral. As long as they're doing cool super hero things it'd be fine, but you just KNOW they'll either make it a soft-porn movie for teenage boys, with skimpy amazonian outfits and stuff like that, or a superhero theme subversion comedy movie, which both make the race and gender of the characters a focal point.
Or they'd downright market it as "black female Avengers", as if Avengers is the default, and "black" and "female" are important modifiers. Whatever happened to the "female" Ghostbusters, anyways?

I feel like I'm just very cynical about marketing.

I don't mean one movie, though, I meant if, hypothetically, all movies from now on were to star black women, and you didn't see white men at all for some reason.

For any individual movie it shouldn't be a problem, but as a whole, the industry would be worse off by limitations like that.

 

[happyninja42]

I know that everyone says they're sick of white male protagonists, but honestly I think you guys really just mean Americans. I mean, people from Germany, France, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Russia, or where ever you can find people with melanin deficiency are hardly well represented in mass media. They're either the bad guys or stereotypes.

And if you don't mean Americans, then isn't having a problem with the color of someone's skin kind of, I don't know, racist?

Well considering that the biggest culprit of this "white male protagonist" trend, is Ubisoft, and the fact that their entire game line involves white males from various places in the Middle East or Europe, I'd say it's not an "American" thing. The only American hero in the entire Assassin's Creed series is Desmond, and most people would say he was a non-character, and was simply a plot device.

So...no I don't think your theory that it's a distaste for American white guys, and it's actually just white guys in general.

 

[Magmarock]

Nope. A Canadian Heterosexual white male is just as safe and boring as an American one. ...In fact...

http://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/2013/11/xmenorigins-wolverine.jpg

Yup, just as boring

Nothing wrong with the archetype inherently , but let's not pretend it isn't a massive safe zone that gets treated as default for arbitrary reasons.

But, Hugh Jackman is Australian Canadian. Also if you want to see more ethnic people in games why haven't you bought any. They're not common but they exist. Have you looked. I'll even hope you. Check out Shadow Warroir (the 2013 remake) it's got awesome gameplay awesome action, a decent story and an Asian protagonist.

 

[Piorn]

I don't mean one movie, though, I meant if, hypothetically, all movies from now on were to star black women, and you didn't see white men at all for some reason.

For any individual movie it shouldn't be a problem, but as a whole, the industry would be worse off by limitations like that.

Oh but it already is at that same position, just with white males instead of black females.
Just because I don't care about race, doesn't mean I don't think a variety in the cast can't enhance movies.
And it certainly would be silly to reject a perfect role for racial reasons, that'd just be shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Dizchu]

When it comes to concerns about diversity I'm always torn. Because on one hand, I'd love to see more non-white and non-straight characters in video games, movies, television etc. (one of the reasons I am so drawn to Orphan Black and Orange is the New Black is because of this diversity, and in the former's case this diversity is portrayed mostly by one actress which is the coolest thing).

Sorry I went on a tangent there...

Ah yes, on one hand I'd love to see more variety in characters, but on the other hand this dismissive attitude towards straight white men is just as tiresome as their overabundance. Look on social media and you'll see that "straight white male" is a shorthand for "everything I hate about the world". Whether it's ironic or not doesn't matter at this point because it's just so prevalent. It seems really counter-productive, to be honest.

I want people to know that straight white men don't necessarily have to be assertive, masculine, stoic, emotionless, with a beefy physique and a jaw like an anchor, which seems to be the "ideal" for many. You can write a straight white male that's just as interesting with characteristics just as under-represented as those an autistic transgender black lesbian with prosthetic limbs can have.

 

[Jack Action]

To be honest, the criticism isn't so much 'Damn these filthy Americans' but more 'Damn these incredibly lazy characters who are white solely because the Dev team couldn't be fucked and treat White like Default'. It's just America tends to produce metric fuck-tonnes of video games with these problems, so a large number of 'Lazy White Bro' characters are American.

It's totally possible to make white characters with some thought, who are Americans though. See BJ from Wolfenstein: The New Order, who is a White American half-jewish man, with his appearance used as an ironic 'take that' at the Nazi's - he's the spitting image of the Aryan 'ideal', yet has a deep hatred of Nazi's and murders 'em wholesale (with the Jewish part just adding extra irony flavour). White, American, Male character - works incredibly well and his race is an actual part of his character.

(Look, I know there's a 90% chance this is a gotcha thread given the tone of the OP, but fuck it, I'll praise W:TNW wherever I want to.)

Wasn't Blazkowicz Polish? I'm pretty sure he was Polish. Then again, it's been a long time since I've played Wolf, and it's been rebooted twice thrice by now.

 

[OldNewNewOld]

snip

Are you aware of the fact that you're saying that literally the only redeeming points of some character is his skin color and sexuality?

 

[Zontar]

To be honest, the criticism isn't so much 'Damn these filthy Americans' but more 'Damn these incredibly lazy characters who are white solely because the Dev team couldn't be fucked and treat White like Default'. It's just America tends to produce metric fuck-tonnes of video games with these problems, so a large number of 'Lazy White Bro' characters are American.

It's totally possible to make white characters with some thought, who are Americans though. See BJ from Wolfenstein: The New Order, who is a White American half-jewish man, with his appearance used as an ironic 'take that' at the Nazi's - he's the spitting image of the Aryan 'ideal', yet has a deep hatred of Nazi's and murders 'em wholesale (with the Jewish part just adding extra irony flavour). White, American, Male character - works incredibly well and his race is an actual part of his character.

(Look, I know there's a 90% chance this is a gotcha thread given the tone of the OP, but fuck it, I'll praise W:TNW wherever I want to.)

Wasn't Blazkowicz Polish? I'm pretty sure he was Polish. Then again, it's been a long time since I've played Wolf, and it's been rebooted twice thrice by now.

For the New Order he is indeed Polish on the half that isn't Jewish. Before that game, though, I have no idea, though it came from a time where it really didn't matter since it was games that where meant to be fun and not meeting some unspoken diversity quota.