the "Why didn't they just shoot Voldemort?" thread

[Treblaine]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

parliment and the ministry of magic have separate jurdistictions over their realms. wands are used for everyday things, like putting a star on a christmas tree or opening up a secret appartment complex, banning wands because people can use them to kill is like taking away fast food restaurants because the food gives a few people heart attacks, it's a matter of necessary discretion.

imagine everyone in the world had a gun, but guns were used as back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!) but no one knew about bullets than go in them, except for a certain bald headed terrorist and his lackeys, who carried many bullets and used them on people. now instead of banning the thing people need every day, the government bans the bullets instead.

like wise, the ministry of magic has made it clear by law that the use of the 3 unforgivable spells (the ones mentioned in the 4th book) are illegal to use. ban the spells, not the spell casting device.

So not only do the Wizards practice apartheid from the muggles who have the "wrong blood" but they have a double standard on the law and ON TOP OF THAT is seem the Ministry of Magic is the highest authority with no apparent democracy. It's a dictatorship. Within the UK! Why would the prime minister submit to these wizards ceeding from the UK - within the UK - unless by threat of brainwashing.

These wizards are utter bastards!

Making wands illegal but USING them to kill is like making pistols legal but merely make it illegal to murder people with it, which is redundant as murder is illegal ANYWAY! Killing curse is clearly legal (by the Wizard's racist apartheid laws) to own or even use on non-humans animals as Alastor Moody used the killing curse on a Spider without arising any investigation or imprisonment.

It's not significantly different from South Africa where whites are allowed to walk around with loaded pistols on their hip but blacks can't so much as have a penknife.

And guns do have use other than killing people, which of course can be reasonable for self defence (especially with military). They are used for accurately firing lead at high velocity that may be for hunting, pest control, target-shooting sport, or just the joy of plinking.

"back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!)"

Wizards are either extraordinarily lazy or incompetent. You mean they can't get a ladder? They can't even screw in a lightbulb?

 

[Treblaine]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

T_T

Price: ghost, do you read me?
ghost: load and clear, soap and i and ready
price: voldemort is the prize. keep low and follow my lead
soap: so what's with these wizards? there's no telling what they can do
ghost: right, we gotta hit 'em quietly and fast
price: aye. HOLD UP, one group up ahead, let them pass
...
price: ok drop 'em

PFT PFT PFFTPFT PFT

soap: tangos down
price: wolcroft, held me hide the bodies. soap, you and ghost get yourselves to the next wing
ghost: next corridor, go go go!
price: place C4 charges under that bridge for when they come out of the forest
soap: aye, the'll never know what hit 'em



as kick ass as it sounds, we're not talking about a full scale bag n' tag sweep like in every kick ass British level of Modern warfare, we're talking about a citizen purchasing a weapon. to send in the SAS (whom i'm assuming are all muggles) would be to break the biggest rules of the magic world;

#1. no muggles can see wizards use magic, that was the whole point of platform 9 3/4 and ron's invisble car, which then snap snapped at them for getting nearly caught.
#2. no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order.

now let me remind you, firearms are not permitted for sale in the UK under law, no one can buy one. there is no rights to bear arms, no army surplus, and probably a very small black market, they're are not tolerated what so ever. MI5 can carry them though, but their super secret spies and stuff. now harry, ron, and hermione are not super secret MI5 spies, they are british citizens...actually, just harry is. hermione erased herself from the real world and ron grew up in the wizardry world. so they cannot buy a gun unless they traveled to america to buy one then traveled all the way back to hogwrats, and voldemort would of killed everyone by then.

Well, I DID point out how the Prime Minister had been informed, so he could send the SAS.

And by the way, UK citizens do (with the right paperwork) have access to some pretty considerable firepower. Most notably high power precision rifles, called hunting rifles they are in fact indistinguishable from hunting rifles, they are designed to instantly and painlessly kill a 200lbs Deer from hundreds of feet away.

Anyway, they've got magic! They could magic their arse into a MoD weapons armoury and make off with any hardware they want. Then combine with magic.

"no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order."

Even if the PM agreed to that without blackmail or brainwashing, I doubt he'd still hold that opinion IF he knew that Voldemort was persecuting and murdering Muggles.

Captcha: umbrella corporation

 

[Atmos Duality]

About regeneration
Could Voldemort regenerate his head after encounter with 50.cal
I don't think so
Some people don't realize how much kinetic power high caliber rounds actually have
Even if bullet misses and goes NEXT to the neck, blastwave will simply rip apart blood vessels (potentially lethal injury)
So with right ammunition and good shooter there will be no head left at all
Regenerate this!

He regenerated from being violently immolated off the back of another man's head.
HE REGENERATED FROM ASHES, mind you. Virtually nothing.

Your .50 cal bullet is no match for his Plot Armor, sorry.
In order to win, you must defeat his Plot Armor.

 

[mega48man]

Another thing I'd like to add is that the wands are effectively pistols with unlimited ammo. Essentially, they are already using guns, with higher level spells being the equivalent of rocket launchers or artillery. For the purposes of killing, guns don't really offer anything they don't already have.

Except sniper rifles. Most of the magic is either close and personal (magic wands), distant and indirect (big firestorms and such), or far away, individual, and slow (curses). A weapon that individually and instantly kills from very far away looks to be outside the realms of magic.

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

Real fridge logic [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FridgeLogic] moment here: This poses an interesting legal dilemma, as in England (and Scotland where Hogwarts is located) not only are all firearms illegal but all "offensive weapons" are illegal. It is illegal to own a knife that is "designed for harm" except for those item of prior historical interest, and of course exceptions for government (military).

But aren't wands offensive weapons?

What would some gun-banning politician think if they knew TWELVE YEAR OLDS were being given devices that with the right magic could absolutely and utterly kill people? You could argue a child isn't capable of that... but if a "muggle" child is capable of learning Pi to a thousand digits, or compose musical symphonies, I don't think we should make assumptions of what none of them are possibly capable of.

But even adults, UK abhors the idea of people wandering around with a weapon. Yet that is precisely what witches and wizards do.

So not only do this unrepresentative group practice apartheid, also scorn muggle ways but feel they are the only ones to be armed. Sounds pretty bad when you put it that way and the only way to make that look good is to distort it by omission of details.

parliment and the ministry of magic have separate jurdistictions over their realms. wands are used for everyday things, like putting a star on a christmas tree or opening up a secret appartment complex, banning wands because people can use them to kill is like taking away fast food restaurants because the food gives a few people heart attacks, it's a matter of necessary discretion.

imagine everyone in the world had a gun, but guns were used as back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!) but no one knew about bullets than go in them, except for a certain bald headed terrorist and his lackeys, who carried many bullets and used them on people. now instead of banning the thing people need every day, the government bans the bullets instead.

like wise, the ministry of magic has made it clear by law that the use of the 3 unforgivable spells (the ones mentioned in the 4th book) are illegal to use. ban the spells, not the spell casting device.

So not only do the Wizards practice apartheid from the muggles who have the "wrong blood" but they have a double standard on the law and ON TOP OF THAT is seem the Ministry of Magic is the highest authority with no apparent democracy. It's a dictatorship. Within the UK! Why would the prime minister submit to these wizards ceeding from the UK - within the UK - unless by threat of brainwashing.

These wizards are utter bastards!

Making wands illegal but USING them to kill is like making pistols legal but merely make it illegal to murder people with it, which is redundant as murder is illegal ANYWAY! Killing curse is clearly legal (by the Wizard's racist apartheid laws) to own or even use on non-humans animals as Alastor Moody used the killing curse on a Spider without arising any investigation or imprisonment.

It's not significantly different from South Africa where whites are allowed to walk around with loaded pistols on their hip but blacks can't so much as have a penknife.

And guns do have use other than killing people, which of course can be reasonable for self defence (especially with military). They are used for accurately firing lead at high velocity that may be for hunting, pest control, target-shooting sport, or just the joy of plinking.

"back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things (it sounds so silly!)"

Wizards are either extraordinarily lazy or incompetent. You mean they can't get a ladder? They can't even screw in a lightbulb?

wizards can use their wands to make a ladder magically float to them for them to use, then get ridiculed by their friends for being impractical

fuck light bulbs, wizards got floating candles, bitches love floating candles. no onto seriousness;

wtf? the ministry of magic doesn't practice apartied! notice how harry had been living under a staircase his entire childhood, or how hermione has muggle parents. Voldemort wants an apartied, or a genocide, or both. in order to get to platform 9 and 3/4, one must go to the muggle train station in the muggle world.

this whole thing about the wands is going over my head now.

and yes of course guns can be used for back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things. use your brain

 

[mega48man]

you know what? i was just about to type a long argument, counter argument, and rebutle as to why harry should have shot volde, and then it hit me;

[HEADING=1]FIREARMS ARE ILLEGAL IN ENGLAND[/HEADING]​

i felt so stupid for not realizing it sooner

Murder is also illegal... somehow that doesn't stop Voldemort

Also, Three letters: S A S

Yes, the Special Air Services, arguably the best special forces organisation in the world. They have guns and they know how to use them. The muggle Prime Minister was informed and Rowling has said over and over again that Hogwarts is in the UK just muggles can somehow never find it, so the UK government has jurisdiction here and they can certainly use guns. Wizard can lead them there and set up a killzone of sniper fire.

T_T

Price: ghost, do you read me?
ghost: load and clear, soap and i and ready
price: voldemort is the prize. keep low and follow my lead
soap: so what's with these wizards? there's no telling what they can do
ghost: right, we gotta hit 'em quietly and fast
price: aye. HOLD UP, one group up ahead, let them pass
...
price: ok drop 'em

PFT PFT PFFTPFT PFT

soap: tangos down
price: wolcroft, held me hide the bodies. soap, you and ghost get yourselves to the next wing
ghost: next corridor, go go go!
price: place C4 charges under that bridge for when they come out of the forest
soap: aye, the'll never know what hit 'em



as kick ass as it sounds, we're not talking about a full scale bag n' tag sweep like in every kick ass British level of Modern warfare, we're talking about a citizen purchasing a weapon. to send in the SAS (whom i'm assuming are all muggles) would be to break the biggest rules of the magic world;

#1. no muggles can see wizards use magic, that was the whole point of platform 9 3/4 and ron's invisble car, which then snap snapped at them for getting nearly caught.
#2. no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order.

now let me remind you, firearms are not permitted for sale in the UK under law, no one can buy one. there is no rights to bear arms, no army surplus, and probably a very small black market, they're are not tolerated what so ever. MI5 can carry them though, but their super secret spies and stuff. now harry, ron, and hermione are not super secret MI5 spies, they are british citizens...actually, just harry is. hermione erased herself from the real world and ron grew up in the wizardry world. so they cannot buy a gun unless they traveled to america to buy one then traveled all the way back to hogwrats, and voldemort would of killed everyone by then.

Well, I DID point out how the Prime Minister had been informed, so he could send the SAS.

And by the way, UK citizens do (with the right paperwork) have access to some pretty considerable firepower. Most notably high power precision rifles, called hunting rifles they are in fact indistinguishable from hunting rifles, they are designed to instantly and painlessly kill a 200lbs Deer from hundreds of feet away.

Anyway, they've got magic! They could magic their arse into a MoD weapons armoury and make off with any hardware they want. Then combine with magic.

"no muggle related interfering with the wizardry world, that's the prime minister's director order."

Even if the PM agreed to that without blackmail or brainwashing, I doubt he'd still hold that opinion IF he knew that Voldemort was persecuting and murdering Muggles.

Captcha: umbrella corporation

lol, umbrella corporation.

well you might be right with the PM sending a task force if he knew voldemort was going on a killing spree, but let's be honest here, if men in black and world news has taught me anything, it's that the world's governments are willing to go to great measures to cover things up if they don't want people to know about them.

either that or the PM will have it handled by certain top men....TOP men...

 

[isometry]

He would just heal the wound after the bullet hit him. Bullets don't kill instantly.

 

[Treblaine]

wizards can use their wands to make a ladder magically float to them for them to use, then get ridiculed by their friends for being impractical

fuck light bulbs, wizards got floating candles, bitches love floating candles. no onto seriousness;

wtf? the ministry of magic doesn't practice apartied! notice how harry had been living under a staircase his entire childhood, or how hermione has muggle parents. Voldemort wants an apartied, or a genocide, or both. in order to get to platform 9 and 3/4, one must go to the muggle train station in the muggle world.

this whole thing about the wands is going over my head now.

and yes of course guns can be used for back scrachers, getting things in high places, cleaning, putting in light bulbs, ordinary things. use your brain

Or they could walk over and pick up the ladder. Why is this ability not being made available for the severely disabled instead of being messed around with by a physically able wizard elite?

I think Harry was PURPOSEFULLY hidden in the muggle world, from Voldemort's more murderous sympathisers and it seems they aren't such a tiny minority of wizards.

The books never adequately explain why Hermione has magical powers yet both muggle parents to spite every other example, it is never clarified if both her parents are also her biological progenitors. And if it is true that all muggles have this capability then it is not racial apartheid, it's extraordinary cultural elitism. As if expecting 12 year olds to spontaneously learn how to read and write before they will be admitted into school.

Why do the wizards selfishly guard this knowledge? This divide is a major problem that the books never adequately address.

Going through a muggle train station is irrelevant. Obviously to leave the muggle world you at some point have to be in the muggle world.

I just gave you a load of important functional and non-murderous uses of firearms and you've only give the most trivial uses for wands. I can go on, far more than the obvious that guns can be used to scratch you back, may sound foolish but considering how dangerous wands are I would be equally reluctant to point the business in my direction as with a gun.

And when Parliament debates the various anti-weapon laws they always throw out the many functional uses of such powerful tools of destruction as VOID by the harm you can do with them. Take for example the knife laws, it is in fact totally illegal to carry a knife on your person regardless of how useful knives are as general utility tools. Only workmen may transport knives like box-cutter knives while going to and from their official business.

 

[mega48man]

Or they could walk over and pick up the ladder. Why is this ability not being made available for the severely disabled instead of being messed around with by a physically able wizard elite?

I think Harry was PURPOSEFULLY hidden in the muggle world, from Voldemort's more murderous sympathisers and it seems they aren't such a tiny minority of wizards.

The books never adequately explain why Hermione has magical powers yet both muggle parents to spite every other example, it is never clarified if both her parents are also her biological progenitors. And if it is true that all muggles have this capability then it is not racial apartheid, it's extraordinary cultural elitism. As if expecting 12 year olds to spontaneously learn how to read and write before they will be admitted into school.

Why do the wizards selfishly guard this knowledge? This divide is a major problem that the books never adequately address.

Going through a muggle train station is irrelevant. Obviously to leave the muggle world you at some point have to be in the muggle world.

I just gave you a load of important functional and non-murderous uses of firearms and you've only give the most trivial uses for wands. I can go on, far more than the obvious that guns can be used to scratch you back, may sound foolish but considering how dangerous wands are I would be equally reluctant to point the business in my direction as with a gun.

And when Parliament debates the various anti-weapon laws they always throw out the many functional uses of such powerful tools of destruction as VOID by the harm you can do with them. Take for example the knife laws, it is in fact totally illegal to carry a knife on your person regardless of how useful knives are as general utility tools. Only workmen may transport knives like box-cutter knives while going to and from their official business.

yes, harry was hidden on purpose, voldemort was so racist against muggles he was all like "nah, harry's a wizard, he's gotta be in the wizard world, put 2 and 2 together" and dumbledore was all like "#best plan ever"

hermione's either adopted or magic is a recessive gene

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

i shouldn't need to give a list of uses for wands, just watch the movies. oculo repairo, expecto pertronum, stupify, expeliruamsussjblehksjdbg, wingardium leviOOOOOOsah not levioSAAAAAAAh, and a ton of other useful shit.

 

[Treblaine]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

 

[mega48man]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

ah, but you see the muggles aren't aware of wizards existence, so everyone's the same to them. in a real de-facto segregation, people would be all like "oh hey, that's persons black, use the back of the bus please"
but for muggles it's like "oh hey, you're wearing a suit just like me, we're not that different"
"indeed...what are the odds"

so if the muggles aren't aware, no hard feelings right? besides, it's not so much of a secret segregation as it is a government contrived cover-up to protect national interests. blacks had a glorius civil rights movement while wizards have a memory removal spell.

 

[Treblaine]

yes, muggle train station, however it wouldn't need to be there if wizards never left the wizardry world in the first place, right? look at the weaslys, they live in the wizardry world yet we first meet them in the muggle world, so the idea of there being a secret apartied between muggles and wizards is right out the window and falls down a million foot drop on to sharp pointy rocks resulting in instant painful death.

You may just have been fortunate never to have experienced racial segregation, or not been fortunate enough to be educated on it, but apartheid/segregation is not that they NEVER come in contact. The segregated groups walk the same streets and may use the same large municipalities, but they are de-facto divided in opportunities and ability to interact. For example in a black-white racially segregated society, Whites would have their own station platform and only whites would be allowed on there, their own train. I think even you must have heard how in the Deep South of Antebellum America black people were forced to sit at the back of the bus. Muggle's can't even get on the platform let alone the train!

ah, but you see the muggles aren't aware of wizards existence, so everyone's the same to them. in a real de-facto segregation, people would be all like "oh hey, that's persons black, use the back of the bus please"
but for muggles it's like "oh hey, you're wearing a suit just like me, we're not that different"
"indeed...what are the odds"

so if the muggles aren't aware, no hard feelings right? besides, it's not so much of a secret segregation as it is a government contrived cover-up to protect national interests. blacks had a glorius civil rights movement while wizards have a memory removal spell.

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

 

[mega48man]

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

 

[Smithburg]

Can't... stop... laughing... at gun weilding harry gif...

 

[Treblaine]

Homer (on being discovered of bringing a gun into the family home): "I swear to god Marge, you have to understand! You were never supposed to find out!"

Deception is no excuse. People are still dying and suffering in the NHS when they could spare millions. Our schools are floundering and billions are being wasted of scientific research that isn't factoring the effect of magic.

UK government spends hundreds of millions of pounds on overseas aid, even in the middle of this crippling financial crisis, even to countries like India where their government is arguably in a better position to provide aid to their citizens. Wizards seem to do NOTHING! They have explicit non-involvement practices and even laws.

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

 

[mega48man]

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

god dammit treblaine, you're turning into rush limbaugh, THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE!!!

by their own selfish benefit i'm sure you mean self protection. mankind over thousands of years have developed and perfected the art of mass and even systematic killing. whether it be through war or genocide, mankind are masters of death. if the world witnessed a magical act of terror, the world would panic and immediately crack down on anything related to magic. thousands of wizards would die b/c one evil wizard terrorist, aka voldemort.

you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit.

the wizarding world is held separate from the muggle world by de jure, nor de facto. there is no hate for muggles except from the death eaters, just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them! they're only kept secret for each other's protection, that's it. you know how when you REALLY want something that everyone else had but your parents say no? no hard feelings, it's just in your best interests despite how much you may disagree.

now if you insist on keeping this argument going, i won't know why. this started out as a playful argument but now i'm at the point where i'm repeating myself which means i'm not getting through. now i've got college stuff to do, SO GOOD DAY SIR!

 

[Treblaine]

did you ever watch men in black? the first one, not the second one.

IMAGINE HOW THE WORLD WILL REACT WHEN THEY DISCOVER AN UNDERGROUND SOCIETY OF MAGIC PEOPLEz

it's just like E.T., if they're found out then the world's governments and militarys will want to abduct them, research on them, test them, exploit them, kill them out of fear, etc.

as K once easily put it;
taken out of context, he could be talking about wizards. wizards could potentially help the world towards world peace, but look at bad eggs like voldemort who believe the two worlds should never coexist. there would be magical acts of terrorism so impacting that the world would see all wizards as a threat and a menace, just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!

Well the popular reaction to our world (that is used as the basis of the Muggle world in Harry Potter books) LOVES the Wizarding world and probably would be excited as crap at interacting with them... till they realise how racist and segregationist they are forbidding any wizards from curing and helping all the sick and poor muggles. We only see the books from Harry Potter's perspective, privileged enough to enter this world, they'll get mad when it's becomes self evident what I have so far described.

Wizards keep their world secret not for the muggle's benefit... but for THEIR OWN SELFISH BENEFIT!

"just look at the wrap muslims got after 9/11!"

Not very bad to be honest. In America there are far less hate crimes against Muslims than there are against Jews and Homosexuals! Everyone but the most racist make the distinction between extremist Islam and Muslim individuals, and those who don't make the distinction are more violent against gays/jews/blacks/etc. There was a net increase in Muslims in New York post-9/11 from s many white Americans willingly converting to Islam.

god dammit treblaine, you're turning into rush limbaugh, THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE!!!

by their own selfish benefit i'm sure you mean self protection. mankind over thousands of years have developed and perfected the art of mass and even systematic killing. whether it be through war or genocide, mankind are masters of death. if the world witnessed a magical act of terror, the world would panic and immediately crack down on anything related to magic. thousands of wizards would die b/c one evil wizard terrorist, aka voldemort.

you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit.

the wizarding world is held separate from the muggle world by de jure, nor de facto. there is no hate for muggles except from the death eaters, just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them! they're only kept secret for each other's protection, that's it. you know how when you REALLY want something that everyone else had but your parents say no? no hard feelings, it's just in your best interests despite how much you may disagree.

now if you insist on keeping this argument going, i won't know why. this started out as a playful argument but now i'm at the point where i'm repeating myself which means i'm not getting through. now i've got college stuff to do, SO GOOD DAY SIR!

You call me Rush Limbaugh then immediately trot out the fallacy of "look at the big picture"... which is a fallacy as it asks to ignore the small and IMPORTANT details!

Magical act of terrorism? Why would all wizards been rounded up for that when we have lived with terrorism for decades now and haven't resorted to that. This is paranoia. Why would we commit genocide against wizards who could cure world hunger... if they could be bloody well bothered to.

"you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit."

I work on proof. Where is your proof that "every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb", how do I know that is not just your personal prejudice? In practice they lost no particular civil liberties, all of use (both sides of atlantic) came under higher security precautions. Where is the proof that they were excessively targeted by random searches? If you mean actual questioning it's not unreasonable to actually investigate someone for terrorist indoctrination from where they have been. It's as bad as some frat guy travelling back from Thailand to being searched for smuggling drugs!
It's pretty obvious they are not thorough enough as with several Muslim bombers who almost succeeded in detonating a bomb on a plane, the Shoe-bomber then the underpants bomber. Now EVERYONE has to have their shoes x-rayed, EVERYONE gets deep frisked. Those bombings were only foiled by the excessive security measures (that everyone endured) that made the bombs so small and impractical that they were too hard to properly detonate.

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

Never once used his awesome magical powers to save the millions of muggles in need. Though he easily could have. He's fascinated by them like exotica animals, not as people, not as equals. He sees them as quaint.

TLR If you insist on ignoring all of my uncomfortable points that every wizard in Harry Potter is a total jerk then I suggest you don't take part in this debate. Because Rowling has through naivete created a horribly unjust world, but tried to present it in a whimsical and extremely one sided way.

I don't think you realise how much I and so many others wish you could just wave a magic wand and make these horrible things of the world end. Only someone who has lived an extremely sheltered life in the west could see muggles as being lazy and exploitative to want wizard magic... and what do you know, the main target market for Harry Potter.

 

[rayen020]

My argument is that it seems to me all wizards/witches are racist motherfuckers who who look at muggles the same way they did 1000 years ago. Simplistic, dumb, and to be protected like children at best(oh i'm sorry you got tortured by wizards, here let me make it better by erasing you're memory of it.) or vermin to be exterminated at worst (Wizard might makes wizards right). Of course they wouldn't think of shooting Voldemort, "muggles don't have anything that could kill the most evil wizard of all time. Plus they aren't destroying the earth and environment through pollution and global climate change, if they were we'd know it and fix it."

This has been my problem with the wizarding world for awhile. They take children with magical talent at a young age, before they can realize or understand any of the real world problems, and indoctrinate them to believe that wizards have the best lives and as long as it doesn't affect wizards it doesn't matter. And in the process they've given science, technology, engineering, education (non-magic education), equality, and progress. And even worse anyone who has any muggle knowledge from they're childhood, or displays even the slightest interest in muggles beyond the casual "oh hey they exist", is labeled badly (mudblood and blood traitor respectively).

No, they wouldn't think of killing voldemort with a gun because god forbid the muggles have something that approaches magic. I kinda played out the HP world as a thought experiment, and came to realize unless wizards start to drop their preconceived notions about muggles and help out in a constructive way, eventually muggles will have technology that outstrips magic and will insulate themselves from wizards. Sad really.

TLR; Wizards are racist so they wouldn't think of using guns.

 

[mega48man]

You call me Rush Limbaugh then immediately trot out the fallacy of "look at the big picture"... which is a fallacy as it asks to ignore the small and IMPORTANT details!

Magical act of terrorism? Why would all wizards been rounded up for that when we have lived with terrorism for decades now and haven't resorted to that. This is paranoia. Why would we commit genocide against wizards who could cure world hunger... if they could be bloody well bothered to.

"you must not live in america. after 9/11, EVERY muslim american was seen as a walking bomb. at the airports when they do "random selective screenings" every name they call is muslim +1 pretty white girl. they got a REALLY bad wrap, you must not live in a diverse area. i'm from metro detroit, HUGE muslim population in detroit."

I work on proof. Where is your proof that "every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb", how do I know that is not just your personal prejudice? In practice they lost no particular civil liberties, all of use (both sides of atlantic) came under higher security precautions. Where is the proof that they were excessively targeted by random searches? If you mean actual questioning it's not unreasonable to actually investigate someone for terrorist indoctrination from where they have been. It's as bad as some frat guy travelling back from Thailand to being searched for smuggling drugs!
It's pretty obvious they are not thorough enough as with several Muslim bombers who almost succeeded in detonating a bomb on a plane, the Shoe-bomber then the underpants bomber. Now EVERYONE has to have their shoes x-rayed, EVERYONE gets deep frisked. Those bombings were only foiled by the excessive security measures (that everyone endured) that made the bombs so small and impractical that they were too hard to properly detonate.

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

Never once used his awesome magical powers to save the millions of muggles in need. Though he easily could have. He's fascinated by them like exotica animals, not as people, not as equals. He sees them as quaint.

TLR If you insist on ignoring all of my uncomfortable points that every wizard in Harry Potter is a total jerk then I suggest you don't take part in this debate. Because Rowling has through naivete created a horribly unjust world, but tried to present it in a whimsical and extremely one sided way.

I don't think you realise how much I and so many others wish you could just wave a magic wand and make these horrible things of the world end. Only someone who has lived an extremely sheltered life in the west could see muggles as being lazy and exploitative to want wizard magic... and what do you know, the main target market for Harry Potter.

oh my fucking GOD

[HEADING=1]REMEMBER DISTRICT 9? DID YOU SEE THAT MOVIE? OK, SAME THING BUT WITH WIZARDS, THAT'S WHY THEY STAY IN HIDING. GOD DAMMIT.[/HEADING]

"just look at mr. weasly! he's fascinated by them (muggles)!"

you stare at animals in a zoo and go "WOW THAT'S AWESOME!" but do you help them by freeing them into the wild? no because that's AGAINST THE FUCKING RULES

you work on proof eh? well you know what? IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME i don't need to pull up an article about it because most people in america have heard about those dumb selective screenings they do on airplanes and in airports that started years ago. and when i said every Muslim was seen as a walking bomb, i didn't mean the government began tracking them (although i bet they do) but i meant that most people starting holding a strong prejudice towards muslims after 9/11.

it's been over 10 years now and we've gotten over it. but back then there was this muslim kid in our social studies class who was talking about the strong prejudices held towards muslims following 9/11, and he felt a little condemed by all of it. as the class clown he said "if you type muslim in google it will say "did you mean bomb?" funny guy.

seriously, if you want to have a discussion about the hypothetical (what would happen if wizards reveal themselves) don't say "i work on proof" because everything is [HEADING=1]fucking hypothetical[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]NOW I AM JUMPING OUT THIS WINDOW[/HEADING]

[HEADING=1]AND INTO A DIFFERENT THREAD[/HEADING]