The X1 has lost Microsoft 400 million

[Maximum Bert]

What how is this news?

Well, to the uninformed with a vauge idea of how buisness works, if Xbox was consistently losing money year on year then MS would have cut it by now.

But they havent cut Xbox, therefore as far as theese people care, nothing is wrong.

No it has consistently been losing money hence why shareholders have wanted to cut it for quite a while. They basically wanted to buy their way in corner the market and then start milking people for the money sort of like they have done with the PC except it hasnt panned out that way for them and with that enormous mess they made of the Xbox One launch it dosent look like it will happen anytime soon basically they tipped their hand to early.

Also MS as a company are making a load of cash so the Xbox losing money consistently can easily be offset by the massive profits on their other divisions hence why Xbox hasnt been cut the are still hoping that they can outlast their competitors and establish a near monopoly on consoles as well as PC. Its just shareholders would see more profits if Xbox was gone hence the increasing push to get rid of it.

Business doesnt always cut things that are losing them money as long as they think it will make them money in the end either directly or indirectly it happens all the time especially if they have money to burn like MS.

 

[fix-the-spade]

In total seriousness, this is nothing, Microsoft will keep the Xbone around for the long haul.

they would be suicidal to do so. It was underpowered when it launched. its lack of power will show even greater with time. Heck, mobile phones are coming out with 120hz displays now, Mobile GPUs have beat last gen consoles last year and are quickly catching up. if they plan to keep XboxDone for 8 years like 360 your going to see mobile phones being faster than consoles and thats not going to end up well for consoles.

No.

Mobile GPUs caught up with some aspects of consoles last year, they still rely on internal batteries and playing a 'real' video game on a touch screen is still horrible and will remain horrible until controller add-ons for tablets become standardised in their layout.

No one is going to play Halo on a touch screen with an expected battery life under an hour, just like consoles didn't kill PC, mobile won't kill consoles. If tablets get standardised layout controls, massively improved batteries and the ability to project an image in real time to the TV and be responsive then yeah, consoles doomed, but we're nowhere near that yet.

Regards the Xbone's processing power, doesn't matter if Microsoft can make the games. PSone was less powerful than the N64, PS2 less than the Xbox and the Cube, but hardware sells on price and the products available on it. Microsoft has sorted the price, now they need some essential games and the Xbone will be fine, it's unlikely to match the PS4, but Microsoft will make money easy.

 

[KazeAizen]

Now, I'm not really into consoles, but are you guys actually encouraging a situation where Sony has the monopoly on Big Console Games?
Do you not know where monopolies lead?
Surely some competition is good to keep the companies on their toes.

And Nintendo will be there for competition. People do realize they aren't dead yet right and also they have a pretty stellar line up from fall to 2015.

 

[KazeAizen]

Now, I'm not really into consoles, but are you guys actually encouraging a situation where Sony has the monopoly on Big Console Games?
Do you not know where monopolies lead?
Surely some competition is good to keep the companies on their toes.

And Nintendo will be there for competition. People do realize they aren't dead yet right and also they have a pretty stellar line up from fall to 2015.

Also This is the first Nintendo console to sell at a loss. Literally Nintendo need to sell 1 game after the console itself and they're in profit on the console.

Which is pretty important as until later in the lifespan most other consoles are money sinks. They cost large amounts to develop and then have to be sold at a considerable loss until parts costs and better sourcing etc bring costs down. Most other companies sell at a quite a big loss per console just to gain the install base initially.

That's the weird thing, from a financial perspective Nintendo won last generation and for all we know is winning this one already because they're not being screwed over hard per console sold.

Nintendo might seem like it's losing but unlike the others it can kick back and rest far more because it doesn't need to compete of the same level as them to turn a profit. It isn't having to make up for such huge running costs as much because it's deliberately letting the other consoles push the curve while it stays neatly behind able to do things far cheaper. It's strange but Nintendo doesn't have the costs to deal with so much as the others and as such it's far more sustainable.

While other companies are spending what 50,Million or so on games Nintendo can sit there and laugh and spend 5 million and their games and need to sell far less to make it back.

Nintendo doesn't need as much money as the others to operate and can do far more with their money because of it.

Also look at the amount of designing and redesigning they've done as of late.
The DS, DS lite, DS XL, 3Ds, 3DS xl, 2DS and the Wii U so Nitendo will be paying a bit out to design all that hardware and don't need to sell much to be in profit on it.

I'm sure people will accuse us of being on the NDF but its not wrong. Since Nintendo is essentially sitting at 7th gen hardware the cost for the tech is considerably cheaper. Not only that with the line of games coming out and their console being the cheapest they can turn their loss around much easier than Microsoft can at this point.

 

[Roxas1359]

I'm sure people will accuse us of being on the NDF but its not wrong. Since Nintendo is essentially sitting at 7th gen hardware the cost for the tech is considerably cheaper. Not only that with the line of games coming out and their console being the cheapest they can turn their loss around much easier than Microsoft can at this point.

The only people being called the NDF are the ones who treat it as if Nintendo has never done any wrong, are always the best at everything, and everyone else makes nothing but crap. Those are the people I can't stand, because it reminds me of the people who told me I had no childhood because I didn't have a Nintendo console when growing up, to which I usually proceed to tell those people to fuck off because it's annoying for that. Nintendo's not going anywhere, and there are more people how shout about "Nintendo haters" then there are actual ones. Hell I get told I hate Nintendo and want them to fail, despite buying a Wii U at launch before the first price drop, and owning every Nintendo home console and handheld (not ever model handheld mind you, just the ones that let me play the games). Has Nintendo made a lot of mistakes on company policies, damn straight, especially with the whole LP thing which is still a problem, their digital prices are terrible at times, and localization for them is still a major problem. Game wise though, they still make quality games.

What's sad is that people want any one of the three console manufacturers to fail, thinking that won't have any bad consequences at all, when in reality it will. To compare it to the automotive industry, it'd be like Chevy, Ford, and Toyota competing, and suddenly Toyota dropped out of the market. It'd have a huge effect on everything. Now when SEGA dropped out, it wasn't as bad for a few reasons, one of them being that Microsoft managed to actually fill in the gap SEGA had left with the original Xbox.

 

[KazeAizen]

The only people being called the NDF are the ones who treat it as if Nintendo has never done any wrong, are always the best at everything, and everyone else makes nothing but crap. Those are the people I can't stand, because it reminds me of the people who told me I had no childhood because I didn't have a Nintendo console when growing up, to which I usually proceed to tell those people to fuck off because it's annoying for that. Nintendo's not going anywhere, and there are more people how shout about "Nintendo haters" then there are actual ones. Hell I get told I hate Nintendo and want them to fail, despite buying a Wii U at launch before the first price drop, and owning every Nintendo home console and handheld (not ever model handheld mind you, just the ones that let me play the games). Has Nintendo made a lot of mistakes on company policies, damn straight, especially with the whole LP thing which is still a problem, their digital prices are terrible at times, and localization for them is still a major problem. Game wise though, they still make quality games.

What's sad is that people want any one of the three console manufacturers to fail, thinking that won't have any bad consequences at all, when in reality it will. To compare it to the automotive industry, it'd be like Chevy, Ford, and Toyota competing, and suddenly Toyota dropped out of the market. It'd have a huge effect on everything. Now when SEGA dropped out, it wasn't as bad for a few reasons, one of them being that Microsoft managed to actually fill in the gap SEGA had left with the original Xbox.

Also to be fair the market wasn't quite as big back then as it is now so while still major the impact wasn't quite what it would be like if one of them went belly up now. Personally Nintendo is my favorite company because while I acknowledge they screw up the good far out weighs the bad. I mean the bad is still pretty bad. Weren't they notorious for region locking stuff, which I never import but I understand the issue, also the LP and Youtube thing but compared to say shipping incomplete games, having subscription fees out the wazoo, and just general money extortionist tactics they are not as bad as most.

Heck they win to me alone for CONSISTENTLY putting out actual finished games and rarely having DLC which when they do it actually is legit. Though the Hyrule Warriors DLC is I think the first time I've seen the bad side of the DLC market rear its ugly head on a first party Nintendo title which considering how long it took for that to happen that's damn impressive. Would be more impressive if its just a one off thing until we get a Super Princess Peach U. expansion for Mario U. Which I would actually buy that.

 

[TaboriHK]

After how MS marketed the X1, I hope it causes them nothing but problems. I loved the 360. I didn't love MS taking a dump in my mouth with all the things they wanted me to accept in the X1. It's like they took all my goodwill out back and shot it in the head.

 

[Roxas1359]

Also to be fair the market wasn't quite as big back then as it is now so while still major the impact wasn't quite what it would be like if one of them went belly up now. Personally Nintendo is my favorite company because while I acknowledge they screw up the good far out weighs the bad. I mean the bad is still pretty bad. Weren't they notorious for region locking stuff, which I never import but I understand the issue, also the LP and Youtube thing but compared to say shipping incomplete games, having subscription fees out the wazoo, and just general money extortionist tactics they are not as bad as most.

Well yeah, some of the competition has done far worse. My main point though was the people who have legitimate criticism with Nintendo, being told that they are wrong because Nintendo has never done anything wrong. Not to mention I hate it when people say that other comapnies haven't made fun games, or that they make complete crap. Connecting this back to when I was a kid, I enjoyed games like Ape Escape, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Klonoa, and many more. But according to some, apparently I had a terrible or had no childhood at all because I didn't play Ocarina of Time or Mario 64 as a kid. Hell, even goes back into the 4th gen days as I got told those sort of things all the time because I had a Genesis/Megadrive and no Super Nintendo. Not to mention, not everything the competition has done has been outright bad, and in fact some things became springboards and standards for others. While subscription based stuff sucks, Microsoft still popularized online play for consoles, which is impressive. Sony popularized CD usage which is an industry standard for consoles nowadays as well. Outright ignoring certain things the competition does can hinder you greatly, as what happened with the constant delays of many Wii U games because Nintendo hadn't really practiced with HD design, despite it becoming
an industry standard and obviously needing to be utilized (I'm referring to 720p, as many TVs these days don't even have composite input to support consoles anymore).

To summarize, the only people who should be called NDF are the ones who honestly believe Nintendo has never done anything wrong at all, despite them clearly doing some bad things, and them defending the bad things. Just because it's not as bad, doesn't excuse it. Best example of it is how many people defend the act of region locking by basically saying things like "barely anyone imports." Now for the home consoles, I can understand it a bit because Nintendo's home consoles have never been region free. But for handhelds, it's completely stupid as every single Nintendo handheld, minus the DSi, have been region free. Suddenly now, the 3DS is region locked and there are many games that will never be localized outside of Japan that you'd have to buy an entire new 3DS for. As someone who's studying abroad in Japan next year, the fact that I'm possibly gonna have to buy a whole new 3DS is not the best thing ever.

Heck they win to me alone for CONSISTENTLY putting out actual finished games and rarely having DLC which when they do it actually is legit. Though the Hyrule Warriors DLC is I think the first time I've seen the bad side of the DLC market rear its ugly head on a first party Nintendo title which considering how long it took for that to happen that's damn impressive. Would be more impressive if its just a one off thing until we get a Super Princess Peach U. expansion for Mario U. Which I would actually buy that.

Honestly there worst DLC I still think is the one for New Super Mario Bros 2, as it's overly expensive for what is. Hyrule Warriors I'm more pissed at for Nintendo going along with Tecmo Koei on the "exclusive at x retailer" DLC. I've always hated that, as it just restricts more content overall.

 

[KazeAizen]

Well yeah, some of the competition has done far worse. My main point though was the people who have legitimate criticism with Nintendo, being told that they are wrong because Nintendo has never done anything wrong. Not to mention I hate it when people say that other comapnies haven't made fun games, or that they make complete crap. Connecting this back to when I was a kid, I enjoyed games like Ape Escape, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, Klonoa, and many more. But according to some, apparently I had a terrible or had no childhood at all because I didn't play Ocarina of Time or Mario 64 as a kid. Hell, even goes back into the 4th gen days as I got told those sort of things all the time because I had a Genesis/Megadrive and no Super Nintendo. Not to mention, not everything the competition has done has been outright bad, and in fact some things became springboards and standards for others. While subscription based stuff sucks, Microsoft still popularized online play for consoles, which is impressive. Sony popularized CD usage which is an industry standard for consoles nowadays as well. Outright ignoring certain things the competition does can hinder you greatly, as what happened with the constant delays of many Wii U games because Nintendo hadn't really practiced with HD design, despite it becoming
an industry standard and obviously needing to be utilized (I'm referring to 720p, as many TVs these days don't even have composite input to support consoles anymore).

To summarize, the only people who should be called NDF are the ones who honestly believe Nintendo has never done anything wrong at all, despite them clearly doing some bad things, and them defending the bad things. Just because it's not as bad, doesn't excuse it. Best example of it is how many people defend the act of region locking by basically saying things like "barely anyone imports." Now for the home consoles, I can understand it a bit because Nintendo's home consoles have never been region free. But for handhelds, it's completely stupid as every single Nintendo handheld, minus the DSi, have been region free. Suddenly now, the 3DS is region locked and there are many games that will never be localized outside of Japan that you'd have to buy an entire new 3DS for. As someone who's studying abroad in Japan next year, the fact that I'm possibly gonna have to buy a whole new 3DS is not the best thing ever.

I can't deny that. Sony brought us discs, Microsoft brought online play to the home console, while I may not like games that lean on that to sell themselves we'd be in a worse place if that never got popular on home consoles. Save for Klonoa(which I have never heard of) those games kicked so much ass. Crash 3 and Spyro 2 remain two of my favorite games of that era period. The "barely anyone imports" thing is bullshit. In the global world we live in with things like Ebay and Amazon its never been easier to do. If Nintendo could at least work that out it would be awesome. Sure people like Angry Joe and Jim may still have a rough time and I'd feel bad for them but I'd rather Nintendo square away its region stuff first instead of the Youtube thing. You gotta take the good with the bad. To my eyes right now Nintendo is the lesser of all evils but I won't deny they've screwed up and I'll acknowledge when other companies do things better than them.

Honestly there worst DLC I still think is the one for New Super Mario Bros 2, as it's overly expensive for what is. Hyrule Warriors I'm more pissed at for Nintendo going along with Tecmo Koei on the "exclusive at x retailer" DLC. I've always hated that, as it just restricts more content overall.

I never downloaded it. Then again it came at a time I was pinching my pennies as it is I wasn't really buying much anyway. Yeah the exclusive at x retailer is bullshit. I've always thought that though. Exclusive preorder DLC I wouldn't mind if the preorder market and DLC market hadn't turned to shit so fast. It should be cool but small stuff for fans. Like the Goku costume in Ultimate Ninja Storm 3. Was preorder DLC and I don't even think retailer exclusive either. Big fan of DBZ all my life, big fan of Naruto, perfect type of preorder DLC if you ask me. Still even though the Hyrule Warriors thing bugs me its the Alien Isolation stuff that really pisses me off and I'm not even a huge Alien fan but just as a fan of nerd stuff that would bring my blood to a boil.

Also may I say its nice to find someone with an actual rational brain on the internet....actually haven't we crossed paths before?

 

[William Fleming]

In all honesty, the 360 wasn't a failure in the slightest from one viewpoint selling many units and outselling its major competitor for the first few years since its launch. The first Xbox was more or less a failure and the Xbone's success is kind of debatable. But for a market that Microsoft has sunk insane financial figures into, then yeah, it simply has not come close to performing to their expectations.

It will feel weird if they bow out of the console race since they have been a major part of the Games industry for a while now and have the financial capability to go on indefinitely if they wanted. I can't help but feel that many people that have been with Xbox all those years would not be too pleased if they do bow out of the console race and Xbox Live gets taken down (which won't be for a looooong time).

 

[Rozalia1]

1. Custom is not the same as standard. PCs are standard and everything is made to be in a uniform shape. What consoles need is custom parts designed for it specifically. And that's where it gets expensive regardless of how cheap or weak it is on PC. You have to design new factories for the parts you want to make.

... The point is not all consoles require X amount of money to develop, Sony dumping X million on their console doesn't mean Nintendo has to. You know that Nintendo haven't put out a "cutting edge" console in a long time so to think their costs will be as high as the other two is odd to say the least.

Never buy one from a store.
Never buy from Ebay.
Never buy from a website.

You must build it yourself because stores price fix. You aren't paying a 30% mark up, you can have up to 100% markup on some of these PCs.

There is very little competition in the prebuilt PC world, so they can charge whatever they want.

Here:
http://www.logicalincrements.com/

and here is GPU and CPU benchmarks.
http://www.passmark.com/
http://www.futuremark.com/

Okay yes you're right on the markup and all that, but... how can you say that yet hold the belief that PC will soon suddenly become all "Mainstream" and the platform everyone games on? Storebought PCs are what the common man is going to buy and those are expensive as you know. That is likely why the conception of PC as overly expensive will likely never go away come to think about it.

In all honesty, the 360 wasn't a failure in the slightest from one viewpoint selling many units and outselling its major competitor for the first few years since its launch. The first Xbox was more or less a failure and the Xbone's success is kind of debatable. But for a market that Microsoft has sunk insane financial figures into, then yeah, it simply has not come close to performing to their expectations.

It will feel weird if they bow out of the console race since they have been a major part of the Games industry for a while now and have the financial capability to go on indefinitely if they wanted. I can't help but feel that many people that have been with Xbox all those years would not be too pleased if they do bow out of the console race and Xbox Live gets taken down (which won't be for a looooong time).

A business keeping around something that does nothing but lose money really only happens in a couple of instances. One for example is if the boss is someone who really believes in the continuation of the product regardless of the loss, take Ted Turner and WCW.
Ballmer if the Xbox goes down this generation will be seen as the Xbox's Ted Turner essentially, and he is gone now so there really isn't anybody to block for the Xbox.

 

[Vykrel]

why does it seem like this is the first generation where people dont realize that consoles are almost always sold at a loss in the beginning?

 

[Atmos Duality]

Wow. How much would they lose if they didn't change all those horrible policies, I wonder.

Well I'm sure the Xbone heartbreaks will eventually crawl out and claim that the changes in policy are the main cause of the loss.

Me? I'm sticking with:
1) The loss of consumer trust caused by the highly dubious and confusing Xbone reveal.
2) The fact that nobody wants a $500 cable box
3) The PS4 is cheaper

But in fairness, also:
4) The Xbone isn't even a year out on the market, and the APU alone cost M$ at least 1.5 BILLION (USD) to develop; and that assumes they split the 3 Billion R&D cost evenly with AMD, which I sincerely doubt since AMD was hurting for money, and Nvidia turned Microsoft's bid down FOR BEING TOO CHEAP)

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20130527231722_Microsoft_Xbox_One_APU_Cost_Over_3_Billion_to_Develop.html

The R&D and added production costs were probably pretty steep. Honestly, 400 million in loss isn't really a big deal for M$.

 

[Vault101]

Although I suppose such an event could have unforeseen consequences. For example, it might adversely affect the PC, since Xbox games tend to get released on PC as a matter of course. Possibly? Eh, I dunno, I'm neither an economist nor even an industry watcher.

which Xbox games would that be? because while I wasn't "around" at the time I do belive there was some bullshit surrounding Halo 3 and Vista....

....well I guess theres Ryse..*snrrrk*