These forums have some serious issues with JRPGs. And it's time to address them.

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TOGSolid

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This thread reeks of butthurt fanboy.

jboking said:
When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?
QFE

More cookies for this guy.

The only jRPG I ever liked was Chrono Trigger, but it actually breaks the mold a bit so that hardly counts. JRPGs as a whole tend to be unoriginal, badly produced affairs that never really try to go above and beyond the basic formula.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Axeli said:
So by your definition JRPGs aren't actually RPGs?
Not by my definition. By the dictionary definition. And Wiki's, surprisingly.

Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behavior to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary defines roleplaying as "the changing of one's behavior to fulfill a social role",[1] the term is used more loosely in three senses:

* To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theater, or educational setting;
* To refer to a wide range of games including computer role-playing games, play-by-mail games and more;
* To refer specifically to role-playing games.[2]
Sorry but the whole gaming industry says otherwise and there's not much you can't do about that.
I can, and do, on a number of areas. Same way that Cadbury's still call their sweets chocolate, when they're legally not.
They made the definition.
They're still wrong. Having a flap about it won't make it more correct. If you really want to call them JRPGs, then railplaying would be a better word. Especially as you can also take umbrage with "Japanese" and "Game".
 

mega48man

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i seriously hate JRPGs, and it's not b/c of the gameplay, here's why: ANIMETARDS.

"cloud from FF7 looks soooo cooool with that sword!" "hey, wouldn't it be cool if cloud, from FF7, was in super smash bros. brawl? lololol"

fuck animetards, they're annoying as hell. they think you care about some 900 episode anime they're going on about that no one's heard about and is even old and stupid in japan. not only that, they're usually ugly people with no friends, i wonder why. at least, that's how it is at my school.

as for JRPGs, still, it's pretty bad. the gameplay is a great concept though. party of adeventurers with stats you level up so you fight evil, just like lord of the rings, which was awesome! except in lord of the rings, Aaragorn=badass Legolas=sick Gimli=f**king awesome! gandalf=pimp (YOU SHALL NOT......wait for itPAAAAASS!!!) Sauron is even described as essential manifested evil, and he looked f**king boss. lord of the rings essentially followed the hero's journey, the basic outline for all good adventure movies and books. star wars is probably the best example of the hero's journey ever b/c we all know star wars so when i say "antagonist" you say "DARTHVADER!!!"

but JRPGs, jesus christ, remember that rant i had about animetards? ok, imagine everyone dressed up like them. now... in a lot of JRPG's, or at leas the one's that get a lot of notoriety b/c the animetards flame about them, the protagonist (or main character) is a sad lonley emo child with some social. NO!!! the protagonist is supposed to be relatable!!! we all understand the hardships frodo and luke skywalker go though b/c at the begining of the series, they were like us! in FF7, it's to my knowledge that cloud is this lonely emo child with no friends who looks too weak and scrony to carry the big-ass sword he has in his swiss army knife. here's the problem, he's like that from the start, CAN ANYONE RELATE TO THAT? (i bet those lonely animetards can, that's why they love this shit) the party is all there, there's even that black guy with a minigun for an arm, but everything else makes no sense! in order to properly understand the back story and eviroment, the reader/viewer/gamer needs to be introduced to the protagonists' world the right way. lord of the rings does this by following frodo the whole time. star wars does this by following luke the whole time (mostly. the intro scene to part IV wasn't a bit off the beaten path, but it kept viewers watching b/c it was fun to watch, come on, ACTION! .....dark helmet-headed figure approaches with all badass in respect!) from what i understand in FF7 it starts out with a boring lengthy cutscene/boring lengthly history lesson. the gamer isn't gonna care about that! so when we get to the protagonist, not only can't we understand him, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHY THE F**K HE'S RIDING what i hear is called A CHOCOBO!!!

i looked up at some earlier comments and saw a girl talking about life and death after having a discussion with her mom about puddles. i instantly said "sounds like eternal sonata". someone else said "if you're skipping the middle of the story, you're missing the 'meat' of it". well well my friend, to that i say "how can it be a good story if it's about A FUCKING EMO LEMMING MISTAKEN FOR A LITTLE GIRL WHO WON'T SHUT-UP GOD DAMN PUDDLES?!?!? IS THIS AN RPG OR A EULOGY!?!!?!?"

anyway, enough with flaming FF7, let's move on to FF12 and the recent 13, which i know nothing about.
in 12, there is vaan, and the plot ins't even related to him, and he sucks as a character. enough said.

in 13, after looking at a preview of the characters in gameinformer magazine, it looks like our protagonist is a sad kid looking for his mother, OH HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH THE USELESS EMO PROTAGONIST. REALLY JAPAN!?!?!? also, the black guy looks kinda cool, he's got (what i hear is called) a baby chocobo living in his 'fro, that's pretty pimp.

in short, all i have to say is this; before japan comes out with another RPG they want america to buy, i'd suggest
1. they make the look of the game appeal to everyone, none of this artsy clothing or armor and weird looking vehicles that don't make any sense what so ever. plus, if they have cool looking tie fighter things, why don't they have motor cycles and cars? why giant chickens? wtf?
2. try not to have another emo or ****** (vaan) as the protagonist. try mixing it up and use a normal person who is the chosen one and doesn't know it until he's saved from bad guys that want to use him as a power source for their evilness! and instead of having superior party members protect him, how about we really mix it up, and he learns to use his new powers fight the bad guys who wanna kidnap him! oh, and here's a REALLY good idea, once he learns his powers, let's make him totally badass fun to play as!
3. INTRODUCTIONS PLEASE. the intro to FF12 was so random. i get there's a war going on, but, and i quote from the unskippable episode of FF12 using the date of a calendar we don't even use isn't very helpful at all" and then all hell breaks loose right after a wedding the showcase dressed up animals for than it did the bride and groom. it was pretty much "unless you understand what's going on in this opening cutscene prior to watching it, this game will not make any sense.
4. plots for bollocks sake, make a good one. revolution and sky pirates sound fine, i dunno how they're related, but maybe some forces of darkness would be as appealing as porn is for teens. seriously, take a moment and think this through. in the hero's journey, the second stage is called "the call to action". in star wars, luke joins ben kenobi, his gay lover, and sets forth to destroy the empire, who is very evil i might add. in lord of the rings, sam and frodo must chuck the the ring (WHICH IS PURE 100% I MIGHT ADD) into the firey pits of the awesome looking mt. doom like micheal jordan can sink a bucket, jordon would dick around with shelob the spider ***** though.
5. and last one, give the characters a meaning. in star wars, c-3p0 and r2-d2 played "the chorus". they keep the audience informed of what's going on. haven't you noticed how redundant 3p0 is? vaan wasn't even a necessary character, he's bantha fodder as they say, except he looks pretty damn gay.

well that's it. google 'the hero's journey' and 'the hero with a thousand faces' if you want a good story. they're not actually stories, they're documentaries about stuff like lord of the rings and star wars.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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BaldursBananaSoap said:
JRPGs..............I'd rather play Morrowind, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, System Shock 2, Baldurs Gate 2, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights etc. Much better and more creative than the drivel stories with drivel gameplay that comes from JRPGs.

For example: Dragon Quest 8. The naughty and evil jester done some very naughty things in the happy town of spikey haired people land, and turned the jolly king into a frog thing. What a naughty boy. LETS CHASE HIM AND MURDER HIM! The game consists of you running ten steps, fighting in turn based battles, then running five steps, fighting a turn based battle, repeating this through a dungeon which is probably a magical airship/robot dinosaur party then fighting a water/fire/zombie/random mish mash of creatures boss battle with 2000000000 health which kills you and means you have to go and grind for 200 hours and try again.

I hate being ambushed by invisible critters. Just because you can't see a 100-foot bone dragon, doesn't mean that there isn't one three steps in front of you, poised to poof into existence and immediately chomp your face off. Random encounters are a feature that date back to when RPGs were written for technologically primitive game systems. Today's consoles and PCs are powerful enough to render enemies while also showing the rest of the world at the same time. To keep up with steadily advancing technology, since its creation, the JRPG random-encounter system has been tweaked and carefully molded in no ways at all.

Plus there are only two types of characters with the emotional stability and time-tested leadership it takes to head a group and confront the challenges in JRPG stories.

1. The dark brooding quiet type with a mysterious past and a penchant for not responding to direct questions.

You'll know you're playing with this type of a hero when the character you're playing isn't blonde.

2. The spunky optimistic kid who wears his heart on his sleeve and really wants to help. And is usually obnoxiously cocky.

You'll know you're playing this type of hero if he's been raised by a kind-hearted grandpa and begins the game by oversleeping. The weirdness of old people will have rubbed off on him causing the kid to jump at any chance to deliver anything to anyone. His eagerness to please is only matched by the emotional intensity of your actual cringe when Gramps tells you to take a bushel of tomatoes to all 25 villagers. Oh yeah, and all young heroes grow up in small isolated villages. Duh.

And nearly everything comes down to stats. The problem with turn-based combat is that when it isn't your turn, your characters don't do anything. Who goes first is mostly likely determined by some obscure statistic buried under tons of relevant but ignorable menus. But what's the point of having a 60" 1080p flatscreen TV if I have to imagine what's happening on it?

Instead of watching a battle, I'm left flipping through menus, while my guys stand in place, caught in a looping four-frame animation that lets me know they're ready for me to hit the attack button. FUCK THAT.

Oh yeah, and the plots suck ass. I don't think I'm alone on this - although I might be the only one mature enough to admit it - but I have no idea what I did at the end of FFVII. Since 1997 my confusion has only grown. Plots have gotten so out of hand that each new game is desperately trying to one-up the pack by adding even more extra twists and extraneous plot devices. There's always an evil puppet master revealed towards the closing act, the main character will discover at least one brother, someone will discover their mother was a robot and their father was a potato. Nothing is surprising, because no one knows what the hell is going on anyway. The plots are a mish mash of pointless crap nobody cares about.

Oh yeah, and man rabbits. JRPGs and tentacle rape hentai videos alike are full of stupid rabbit people. What's worse is that it always seems completely unremarkable to anyone in the game. If I've got all my facts straight, there's only one way to produce a man-rabbit, and frankly, I'm disgusted that it's such a common practice in JRPG worlds.

A big reason I play RPGs is for the chance to pretend to be someone that I'm not. Nothing ruins that faster than when the game actually forces me to stop being that character and watch a short film showing what "I" am doing. As gaming systems evolve, the extra processing power is being used to make longer, prettier cutscenes. Wouldn't it be better to incorporate more things that used to require a cutscene into actual gameplay? Recent games, such as Lost Odyssey and Eternal Sonata, have exactly the wrong idea and it's entirely possible to spend more time watching than actually playing the game. Lost Odyssey nails you to your chair with nonstop movies. Opening a door often earns you an elaborate "door opening" scene. Uncovering the next memory from your mysterious forgotten past earns a screen full of text to read. Apparently Japanese gamers would secretly rather be watching TV or reading, but just play games for, you know, the chicks

Another reason I play is for the choices. You know "ROLE PLAYING GAME." Japanese RPGs have you on rails and give no actual role playing other than saying "yes" or "no" but you usually end up having to say yes anyway.
You really don't know what you're talking about and are actually just going on stereotypes. JRPGs actually have good stories in contrast with some WRPGs like Oblivion for example which had a stereotipic copy paste story. Infact reading some of that I would think you have never even played one as turn based combat allows you to circumvent grinding to an extent by using something that is called strategy.
 

Pimppeter2

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I dislike JRPGS. Like Anime and other things, its just not my cup of tea.

But I agree 100% with the OP
 

Earthmonger

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Does my stance of "not giving a damn that they even exist for the last 10 years or so" constitute a "serious issue"? I've long-since outgrown JRPGs.
 

More Fun To Compute

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jboking said:
More Fun To Compute said:
jboking said:
When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?
When those same people stop stinking up every sodding discussion with their personal feelings about how much they hate every single JRPG ever created despite never playing a single one in their lives.
Yes, because when someone insults JRPG's with a legitimate criticism they are actually issuing you a grievous insult.
I'm not grievously insulted as much as slightly annoyed with how boring and uninsightful the arguments normally are. One person saying something neutral about a JRPG based on having played one for more than ten minutes is more worthwhile than one thousand people chipping in with their view on how they detest them so much that they could never play one.
 

mr Awsome

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Axolotl said:
VioletZer0 said:
On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.
Leveling up is a key part of RPGs because it is part of using character statistics and having character stats over player skill as the prime determinator of victory is integral to what an RPG is.
there was a level up system in fallout and i REALLY dont consider fallout an RPG in any way.... at all...

But RPGs...meh. not the greatest genre ive ever played but i wouldnt mind playing one.
JRPGs......meh.... same thing for some of them. Others id rather not play for lack of interest
 

Captain Ninja

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i do not dislike JRPG in fact KH is one of my favorite games. But i think that the fact they use RPG to describe these titles seem wrong, its not like you have much choice or anything i mean in every western game that proclaims itself an rpg as you level you can choose what abilities you are using maybe even a starting class and while there are different forms of RPGs i find that calling them JRPGs simply cause they may contain 1 or 2 things that makes a game an rpg does not count as an rpg.
 

jboking

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More Fun To Compute said:
jboking said:
More Fun To Compute said:
jboking said:
When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?
When those same people stop stinking up every sodding discussion with their personal feelings about how much they hate every single JRPG ever created despite never playing a single one in their lives.
Yes, because when someone insults JRPG's with a legitimate criticism they are actually issuing you a grievous insult.
I'm not grievously insulted as much as slightly annoyed with how boring and uninsightful the arguments normally are. One person saying something neutral about a JRPG based on having played one for more than ten minutes is more worthwhile than one thousand people chipping in with their view on how they detest them so much that they could never play one.
and of course, you aren't exaggerating at all. I'm sorry, but bothering with people who are willing to come to the "I've never played it but I hate it" or the "I've played one for ten minutes, I'm an expert" conclusion are not worth bothering with and you should work on ignoring their ignorance.

Another point to be made, do you really think you can change someones opinion on JRPGs when they are willing to come to a conclusion in this way? They are likely just following the words of someone else(See: Yahtzee), why do you think they are going to listen to logic? Why do you want there support at all? Just shrug off trolls and move on.
 

Joey245

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Let me make one thing clear: Kingdom Hearts 2 is, to this day, my favorite game of all time.

Other than that, though, I can't really get into a JRPG. I'm not sure why, but I just don't have the patience to sit down and play one.

The girls in them are pretty cute, though. *cough*Yuna*cough* Hey, I'm an adolescent. What can you do?
 

Composer

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i used to hate them for random encounter spam and having to watch the attack animation for every turn(needs fast foward button) but as i got older i got bored with run n gun fps and gravitated towards games with story and character development. basically i like my games how i like my books,mangas,movies,n animes: well done.
ps: what does the J in jrpg stand for o_O(
 

Composer

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jboking said:
Axeli said:
jboking said:
Before I read this thread I didn't really have a feeling towards JRPGs. They were just the eastern version of grinding. Sure, most of their stories were terrible an detracted from the experience, but I didn't hate them. After reading this thread I have found one very good reason to hate JRPGs...

JRPG fans.
...
...
...and the haters aren't at all obnoxious and generalize like hell?
No, haters definitely are annoying, I never said they weren't. However, it's the fans need to justify such stupid comments that bug me. You see, if I just saw the comment "Lulz, jrpgs suck." I could completely disregard it as a troll. However, when you find the need to constantly bring up this one comment that is clearly generalizing to show how wrong it is, you become far more obnoxious than the troll ever was. More so, there is no need for you to defend JRPGs. Especially when your defending quickly turns into preaching.

So, why justify such a stupid comment with a response? It only makes you look equally foolish. Why spend the time arguing about the difference between an RPG and an RPG video game. Why try to tell all of the people who have legitimate reasons to not like JRPGs(meaning they have played a few) that they are just wrong and playing all the wrong JRPGs, which is what most of this thread was wasted doing.

When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?
well ya both haters and fans are pretty annoying. why cant i just play what i wanna play and not be classified. its videogame racism!!!
 

More Fun To Compute

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jboking said:
and of course, you aren't exaggerating at all. I'm sorry, but bothering with people who are willing to come to the "I've never played it but I hate it" or the "I've played one for ten minutes, I'm an expert" conclusion are not worth bothering with and you should work on ignoring their ignorance.

Another point to be made, do you really think you can change someones opinion on JRPGs when they are willing to come to a conclusion in this way? They are likely just following the words of someone else(See: Yahtzee), why do you think they are going to listen to logic? Why do you want there support at all? Just shrug off trolls and move on.
You are getting very philosophical now. Trying to sap my will to act in any way by fostering a spirit of existential ennui in me based on the the futility of trying to communicate with other people. Damn you, this is probably going to work, I'm already feeling a bit bad about the general state of the human condition.

It's probably best for me to avoid RPG discussions anyway since they are mostly a waste of time.
 

shadow skill

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Axeli said:
So by your definition JRPGs aren't actually RPGs?
Not by my definition. By the dictionary definition. And Wiki's, surprisingly.

Role-playing refers to the changing of one's behavior to assume a role, either unconsciously to fill a social role, or consciously to act out an adopted role. While the Oxford English Dictionary defines roleplaying as "the changing of one's behavior to fulfill a social role",[1] the term is used more loosely in three senses:

* To refer to the playing of roles generally such as in a theater, or educational setting;
* To refer to a wide range of games including computer role-playing games, play-by-mail games and more;
* To refer specifically to role-playing games.[2]
Sorry but the whole gaming industry says otherwise and there's not much you can't do about that.
I can, and do, on a number of areas. Same way that Cadbury's still call their sweets chocolate, when they're legally not.
They made the definition.
They're still wrong. Having a flap about it won't make it more correct. If you really want to call them JRPGs, then railplaying would be a better word. Especially as you can also take umbrage with "Japanese" and "Game".
Ironically nothing you posted says that JRPGs are not rpgs. It is in fact possible to argue that the phrase "Role-playing game" is a superordinate term for all games where you have characters, in the same way that science fiction is a superordinate term for anything with a "fantasy" setting. You as the player assume the role of Gordon Freeman, or Marcus Fenix etc. After all you do have to modify one's own behavior in order to even play these games. In that sense computer RPGs are no different from their tabletop counterparts.
 

Escapefromwhatever

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I dislike the blind bashing as well, and while I do enjoy many JRPGS, it does sound to me like you are trying to convert us. Add a conclusion to your post along the lines of, "While you may not agree with the above points, they do show that this genre does have merit and that people who enjoy them do not neccesarily have bad taste in games. So please think before you post, yeah?"
 

Random Argument Man

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I like them. I can remember more JRPG stories than WRPG stories.

I'll admit the grinding is annoying. However, I never had a WRPG that made me cried. At least 6 JRPG made me cried. 5 when I was a kid, 1 a few days ago.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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shadow skill said:
It is in fact possible to argue that the phrase "Role-playing game" is a superordinate term for all games where you have characters, in the same way that science fiction is a superordinate term for anything with a "fantasy" setting.
If you give a superordinate term the same definition as a subordinate term, then you may as well call them Fred.

It's like calling Gridiron and Soccer, Football. You're missing the point of the definition. Like saying PIN number or ATM machine.
 

Axolotl

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mr Awsome said:
there was a level up system in fallout and i REALLY dont consider fallout an RPG in any way.... at all...
You don't conside Fallout an RPG? Are you just trolling or are you really that stupid?
 

HoodedPunhist

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I don't really hate JRPGs I never just had opportunity to try any (I only owned 8-bit nes and pc as a kid and my next console was gamecube. Leaped few generations ahead there now didn't I) so really my frind JRPG was Tales of Symphonia on surpise surprise, gamecube. I liked the game and played it through twice, second time with sidequests.

It's just that first "real" PCRPG I played was Baldur's Gate when I was about 8-10 years old. I really didn't understand much english that time so I read parts every now and not having clue what's going on. I really liked atmosphere though and the way it was played. So really I just grew up with Western RPGs.

I'm going to try Chrono series someday to widen my point of view and maybe rise JRPGs alongside with WRPGs on my top games list. Ok joking aside I'm still going try play them. I promise!