These forums have some serious issues with JRPGs. And it's time to address them.

[RoyMakio]

Don't feel like reading 4-5 pages, so I'll just say what I want to say.

Always have been a JRPG fan. From Final Fantasy Mystic QUest, all the way to Salvating for the new Final Fantasy. Now, you all think JRPGs don't have good stroy, I can name two right now that have one of the best I've seen even with the other games out there. Legend Of Dragoon, and Chrono Trigger/Cross(though Chrono Cross wasn't that good in story, it kept me interested none the less). Now, Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger both gave you choices. They gave you the choice to recruit one person, or another. And all JRPGs give you the choice of sidequests, best weapons(best summons in FF terms). Some people hate Turn Based, which yeah, people who want fast action, headshots and all that, yeah, it gets boring. I love playing FPS, but I also love JRPGs, so its not a stretch at all. If you want to get action, Legend Of Dragoon did something along the lines of Lost Odyssey. When you attacked, it was almost a quick time event, except you had to hit X at the right time a certian amount of times to pull off the move you have equipped. So, for those people who hate just sitting there not doing anything, you actually fight in that JRPG.

Also like to say, Legend Of Dragoon had little to no Cliches. It was an old PS1 game, before people pulled off the Villian is your father thing. But guess what? The game keeps you guessing on who is pulling the strings. And it isn't like, you fight someone who you think it is, then all of the sudden its a big guy behind the curtain for the final fight. You learn the identity of the true villian close to the end, but about at the beginning of the 4th disk.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't hate people who hate JRPGs, I just wish they would look at people who do like we are some kind of disease. You can hate it all you want, or not find it fun, but that doesn't mean you get to push your ideals of Games onto us. If I had my way, i would get rid of half the FPS in the world. I just find them numbing after a while. But that is just me.

 

[Calhoun347]

Not all JRPG's are bad. Infact alot of them are good, but it's easy to make fun of them, and alot of them employ turn-based combat system that people don't like.

JRPG's can be great, have been great and will continue to provide great games. But plenty of them will suck, or be enjoyed my a small minority.

 

[Rayansaki]

On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.

"Several varieties of RPG exist in electronic media, including text-based MUDs and their graphics-based successors, massively multiplayer online role-playing games. The term is also used to describe role-playing video games using character progression mechanics first developed in pen-and-paper RPGs, though these games do not involve role-playing in the term's original sense."

Taken from Wikipedia article "Role Playing game". Yes, that statement is sourced. Quadruple.

simple progression does not constitute a RPG tho. If you have a game where you grind levels and levels give you a fixed ammount of stats and abilities without your interference it is not a RPG. You need to make choices, where to put your stats or what abilities to chose or similar options.

 

[Jim Grim]

4. Not really Role-Playing if you can't make choices

I thought that RPGs were about leveling up, not moral choices.

Example: When they say a game has "RPG elements", that doesn't mean moral choices have been added to the game. That means they've added a leveling system of some sort. Like the stat bars in GTA: San Andreas.

Edit: Some JRPGs do have moral choices, just few and far between, like Chrono Cross and the whole

Spoiler

Save Kid thing, which determines who can join you later on, cutting off about 10 characters depending on your choice.

I think you're confusing interactive storytelling with moral choice systems. In your standard western RPG it's often down to choice what quest you're doing, or in some cases why you're doing it. You have the opportunity to push on with the storyline, or take things in the direction you want them to go. Many JRPGs I've played are fairly linear. It's not something I have against them, but many people dislike this aspect.

 

[jboking]

Before I read this thread I didn't really have a feeling towards JRPGs. They were just the eastern version of grinding. Sure, most of their stories were terrible an detracted from the experience, but I didn't hate them. After reading this thread I have found one very good reason to hate JRPGs...

JRPG fans.

 

[Axeli]

On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.

"Several varieties of RPG exist in electronic media, including text-based MUDs and their graphics-based successors, massively multiplayer online role-playing games. The term is also used to describe role-playing video games using character progression mechanics first developed in pen-and-paper RPGs, though these games do not involve role-playing in the term's original sense."

Taken from Wikipedia article "Role Playing game". Yes, that statement is sourced. Quadruple.

simple progression does not constitute a RPG tho. If you have a game where you grind levels and levels give you a fixed ammount of stats and abilities without your interference it is not a RPG. You need to make choices, where to put your stats or what abilities to chose or similar options.

Stop making up rules.

Yes, some customisation is probably preferable, but there's no reason why it would mean just stat allocating. Equipment and ability management is viable options too, and often much more fun ones rather than deciding with how many STR points you begin.
In fact, too much freedom with the stats can actually break the game by negating any relevance of character classes.

A game that'd have no customisation, but would be based on stats and have numeral damage indication would still probably be classified an RPG though. It has the basic core mechanics of a RPG, it probably is an RPG. Not a very good RPG mechanic, probably, but still an RPG.

 

[Axeli]

Before I read this thread I didn't really have a feeling towards JRPGs. They were just the eastern version of grinding. Sure, most of their stories were terrible an detracted from the experience, but I didn't hate them. After reading this thread I have found one very good reason to hate JRPGs...

JRPG fans.

...
...
...and the haters aren't at all obnoxious and generalize like hell?

 

[BaldursBananaSoap]

JRPGs..............I'd rather play Morrowind, Fallout 1, Fallout 2, System Shock 2, Baldurs Gate 2, Dragon Age, Neverwinter Nights etc. Much better and more creative than the drivel stories with drivel gameplay that come from JRPGs.

For example: Dragon Quest 8. The naughty and evil jester done some very naughty things in the happy town of spikey haired people land, and turned the jolly king into a frog thing. What a naughty boy. LETS CHASE HIM AND MURDER HIM! The game consists of you running ten steps, fighting in turn based battles, then running five steps, fighting a turn based battle, repeating this through a dungeon which is probably a magical airship/robot dinosaur party then fighting a water/fire/zombie/random mish mash of creatures boss battle with 2000000000 health which kills you and means you have to go and grind for 200 hours and trying again.

Weaboos.....

 

[Irridium]

I don't play many JRPG's these days. Not because I don't like them, but because other game have popped up, and I have more choices. I just prefer more western RPG's. Again, I don't hate JRPG's, I have fond memories with Grandia 2, Legend of Dragoon, and many Monster Quest games.

They just don't seem to catch my interest.

But I do agree that all this hate on them needs to stop. Its completely stupid and pointless.

I know plenty of people who hate Halo and Call of Duty, yet they love Half Life and Left 4 Dead.

Each genre has their goods and bads, its the same with JRPG's.

 

[jboking]

Before I read this thread I didn't really have a feeling towards JRPGs. They were just the eastern version of grinding. Sure, most of their stories were terrible an detracted from the experience, but I didn't hate them. After reading this thread I have found one very good reason to hate JRPGs...

JRPG fans.

...
...
...and the haters aren't at all obnoxious and generalize like hell?

No, haters definitely are annoying, I never said they weren't. However, it's the fans need to justify such stupid comments that bug me. You see, if I just saw the comment "Lulz, jrpgs suck." I could completely disregard it as a troll. However, when you find the need to constantly bring up this one comment that is clearly generalizing to show how wrong it is, you become far more obnoxious than the troll ever was. More so, there is no need for you to defend JRPGs. Especially when your defending quickly turns into preaching.

So, why justify such a stupid comment with a response? It only makes you look equally foolish. Why spend the time arguing about the difference between an RPG and an RPG video game. Why try to tell all of the people who have legitimate reasons to not like JRPGs(meaning they have played a few) that they are just wrong and playing all the wrong JRPGs, which is what most of this thread was wasted doing.

When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?

 

[drisky]

They are from japan, hence the j
jrpgs arnt turn based by definition

So jRPGs are any and all games with RPG elements that are from Japan? You're saying that games like Septerra Core and Anachronox aren't jRPGs, while games like Demon's Souls are?

That's it, from now on I'm hating jRPGs out of principle.

Actually yes that is exactly what I'm saying, those games are good examples of games taking from other cultures, rather than just making things that that their country is used to making. If there is a problem Yatzee once used a more correct term for the games he hates as animeRPG. I think its time that a distinction can be made.

Don't you think it's just a little pointless and even insulting to judge games on where they come from rather than what genre they are? To me jRPG is a genre, nothing more. Western companies can make jRPGs and japs can make wRPGs. Sure the J stands for Japan, but that's just because the genre started in Japan (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy) and there it became what it is today.

You wouldn't call Quake a jFPS if it was made in Japan, and you wouldn't call StarCraft a jRTS if it was made in Japan. So why treat RPGs like something different? jRPG is a genre with pretty clearly defined characteristics, so why not just use it as that? If you take jRPG to mean "anything from Japan" then this entire thread becomes rediculous.

But one thing I do agree with: Obviously, the terminology could use some clearing up. A bit less ambiguity would've prevented this little discussion.

I'm just curious when did people start calling them JRPG's and WRPG's? I remember Crono Trigger, just about any Final Fantasy and everything else up through high school was a simple RPG. I've never found them to be much of a grind, if you go point A to point B and random encounters happen and you manage to upgrade your equipment you should be fine for the most part. You may be a little underpowered but it's not impossible. For starters I'd like to mention the Ultima II in Final Fantasy IX. Get to the literal end of the game in under 12 hours, you don't have time for grinding.

This points on definition are part of the problem, but the reason why jrpgs have a bad reputation is because, like i said, the Japanese are not buy western games in general, therefore don't acknowledge improvements that western games make, and this is most prominent in RPG's from japan. So since they diverged so much they made a distinction in what westerners call them, japan does have a universal term for all western games, I read that in an escapist article somewhere when a ceo at square enix said that that definition made Japanese gamers think that western games are worse, and its not something that happens as often in western countries, except in jrpgs because a labels been slapped on it. It has there fore made a misconception that they all have terribly old turn based gameplay, when the combat has evolved significantly in most jrpgs. What has'nt evolved is the story telling that Bioware and Bethesda has improved and for the most part the people that enjoy the story and style are those that already like Japanese story telling in general, and I get that people get turned off in that way. Most people take Final Fantasy an define all jrpgs as games that have a similar style and its simply misinformed. I love the stories in games like the Tales of games, Golden Sun, and World Ends with You and i also love the gameplay, but I like anime in the first place.

My main point is that the combat has evolved in rpgs across the world, but the the stories and style still come down to a matter of preference. Also that taking influences from other culture will improve games.

I hope that clarifies my opinion. But it might not.

 

[Axeli]

Before I read this thread I didn't really have a feeling towards JRPGs. They were just the eastern version of grinding. Sure, most of their stories were terrible an detracted from the experience, but I didn't hate them. After reading this thread I have found one very good reason to hate JRPGs...

JRPG fans.

...
...
...and the haters aren't at all obnoxious and generalize like hell?

No, haters definitely are annoying, I never said they weren't. However, it's the fans need to justify such stupid comments that bug me. You see, if I just saw the comment "Lulz, jrpgs suck." I could completely disregard it as a troll. However, when you find the need to constantly bring up this one comment that is clearly generalizing to show how wrong it is, you become far more obnoxious than the troll ever was. More so, there is no need for you to defend JRPGs. Especially when your defending quickly turns into preaching.

So, why justify such a stupid comment with a response? It only makes you look equally foolish. Why spend the time arguing about the difference between an RPG and an RPG video game. Why try to tell all of the people who have legitimate reasons to not like JRPGs(meaning they have played a few) that they are just wrong and playing all the wrong JRPGs, which is what most of this thread was wasted doing.

When can you step back and accept that some people don't like JRPGs?

Forums are for discussion of opinions, you know. Can't blame people if a couple trolls find their way in to the thread.

And you honestly think fans of other genres wouldn't be annoyed if every second comment in a thread about genre X would be "lol, Xs suck!"?

 

[archvile93]

I dislike them for their Turn Based combt, while that's not all RPGs, It's most of them.

Why don't you dislike turn-based combat in an RPG?

This is what I don't understand about the JRPG hate, people who think turn-based combat is bad for RPGs.

Because it's dull.

 

[jboking]

Meta troll is Meta.

Meta troll...would you like to explain exactly what you mean by that one, cause I'm lost on the term.

 

[Bad Cluster]

4. Not really Role-Playing if you can't make choices

I thought that RPGs were about leveling up, not moral choices.

Example: When they say a game has "RPG elements", that doesn't mean moral choices have been added to the game. That means they've added a leveling system of some sort. Like the stat bars in GTA: San Andreas.

Edit: Some JRPGs do have moral choices, just few and far between, like Chrono Cross and the whole

Spoiler

Save Kid thing, which determines who can join you later on, cutting off about 10 characters depending on your choice.

I got something I need to get out of my chest, and its not all aimed against you, every point you've made except the one I quoted and perhaps the story one are all pretty much true.

With each passing year people get further away in understanding what RPG is.

Role Playing Game, don't you forget that, ever!

Stats are only used as a tool, mostly by a GM. The game itself is all about player made decisions.

This is how it goes(simple version):
1) GM sets an objective and the environment.
2) Players make decisions based on step 1).
3) GM uses stats to determine the success of step 2).
4) GM modifies step 1) based on the results from step 3).
5) Repeat from step 2)

A successful player is always aware of the surroundings and will act according to the role/class/character/stats he picked.

In short, if there is no way to make decisions this is not an RPG game, no matter how many stats you have in your character sheet.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

*snip*

Just roll with it. They are considered RPGs, and unless you want to come up with a new genre title, just called them JRPGs.

I'm off to play Resident Evil 4: DUB Edition. Gotta put some rims on Leon. And tweak his engine.

 

[jboking]

Forums are for discussion of opinions, you know. Can't blame people if a couple trolls find their way in to the thread.

This doesn't counter the fact that justifying an unsupported opinion with a response and then pulling the 'holier than thou' routine the whole time is obnoxious, which was my original point.

And you honestly think fans of other genres wouldn't be annoyed if every second comment in a thread about genre X would be "lol, Xs suck!"?

I'm a fan of Metal Gear Solid. Whenever I waltz into a thread about the MGS story, I am almost guaranteed to see the comment "Lol, mgs story sucks!" However, I just let it roll off. In fact I get a little laugh out of how stupidly unsupported the comment is and I move on. Seriously, if you let comments like that get you riled up then you let that poster do exactly what they wanted to. Troll you.