These forums have some serious issues with JRPGs. And it's time to address them.

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everfreeDragon

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I'm not that into JRPGs but there are games I make exceptions for, Chrono Trigger, enjoyed the story, loved the multiple endings, and the combat system was brilliant compared to the average (J)RPG combat, the whole high enough speed can give you more than one turn before your enemy factor was just brilliant!
 

Klepa

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Assassin Xaero said:
Klepa said:
Just like nobody will watch a movie where there isn't a single person you can relate to.
Where the hell did you get this from? I watch movies all the time and don't relate to any single person in it. Actually, only person in a movie that I feel like I actually related to was the guy from Zombieland, being antisocial, barely any friends, don't get along with family much, etc. Then there is Death Race. A movie with a bunch of convicts, violence, and shit blowing up. Who cares if you related to anyone or not, there is shit blowing up, and it is entertaining.
With "relate" I mean, to respond favorably. It's pretty much storytelling 101, if you want a character to succeed, you need to like him or her. I guess you could say that you like someone in Death Race because they drive cars, punch people, and blow shit up. You find them badass.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Onyx Oblivion said:
hURR dURR dERP said:
I also find it suspect that you mention several turn-based games but no real-time ones.
I was pointing out how few there are, actually. Those were the only pure turn based major JRPG releases in the past few years. That's why I list them as an example. There are a few more, but those are the only major titles.
...and yet, you fail to give any examples of recent jRPGs that have moved past the turn-based battles.
 

DarkSaber

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Klepa said:
With "relate" I mean, to respond favorably. It's pretty much storytelling 101, if you want a character to succeed, you need to like him or her. I guess you could say that you like someone in Death Race because they drive cars, punch people, and blow shit up. You find them badass.
Just like how in Slasher movies you tend to relate to the killer because the meat for the slaughter tends to be written as extremely annoying, so you WANT them to die and are on the killers side.
 

Jaqen Hghar

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Just to inject my opinion into this, even though it will probably just be halfway read and then forgotten by one or two people...

I dislike JRPGs for several reasons. One of the main reasons are the story and how it is presented. Everything in JRPGs are supposed to be so damn epic and important. While I find it to be stupid and boring. I haven't played one JRPG where I liked the story. Haven't played the old ones yet though, like Earthbound (if that even is a JRPG that is), and it seems the stupid stories are a new thing. Maybe it is linked with the graphical style.

Which is my next reason. I hate it. There isn't one thing I like about the graphical style in those games. And when I type this now I realize that the style of the graphics and the story are the usual Anime style. Which explains it even more, since I cannot stand Anime.

I like Blade: The Immortal because it is ultra violent, and it is always fun when some idiot chops of the heroes leg and think he has won... then the hero just gets up and slices away.
And I liked Bleach for a while, but not for long.

But the main reason is this: They are boring. When you don't like the story or the graphics, then gameplay is everything. And I haven't played one JRPG that haven't bored me to death. I have played a few FF games, and some others I don't remember the names for. I have never played more than maybe an hour before I just put it down. JRPGs are so. Damn. Boring!
(I also dislike the MGS series for the same reasons)

My two cents.
 

funguy2121

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A very well thought-out OP. I don't generally play RPGs anyway, but I also am not given to bashing a genre in which I don't indulge myself. Poor taste, you see.

Now, when the games DO feature turn-based combat or effeminate male characters with Dragon Ball hair, you are not going to find me anywhere near them.

If it's a fun and different experience, chances are I'm likely to try it at one point. (can't wait for the responses to that statement)
 

Onyx Oblivion

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hURR dURR dERP said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
hURR dURR dERP said:
I also find it suspect that you mention several turn-based games but no real-time ones.
I was pointing out how few there are, actually. Those were the only pure turn based major JRPG releases in the past few years. That's why I list them as an example. There are a few more, but those are the only major titles.
...and yet, you fail to give any examples of recent jRPGs that have moved past the turn-based battles.
okay...deep breath!

Eternal Sonata (you control directly when turn comes up), Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, V Chronicles (you control directly when turn comes up), The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts 39539854321865916901/21851985 days, Final Fantasy 12, FF12: Revanent Wings, Blue Dragon Plus

funguy2121 said:
If it's a fun and different experience, chances are I'm likely to try it at one point. (can't wait for the responses to that statement)
Lost Odyssey is turn-based, but it is very different than your usual JRPGs.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Onyx Oblivion said:
okay...deep breath!

Eternal Sonata (you control directly when turn comes up), Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, V Chronicles (you control directly when turn comes up), The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts 39539854321865916901/21851985 days, Final Fantasy 12, FF12: Revanent Wings, Blue Dragon Plus
I haven't played all of those, but of the ones I recognise at least half are still turn-based, just slightly different from classic turn-based.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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hURR dURR dERP said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
okay...deep breath!

Eternal Sonata (you control directly when turn comes up), Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, V Chronicles (you control directly when turn comes up), The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts 39539854321865916901/21851985 days, Final Fantasy 12, FF12: Revanent Wings, Blue Dragon Plus
I haven't played all of those, but of the ones I recognise at least half are still turn-based, just slightly different from classic turn-based.
umm. which ones are those?
 

drisky

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All right I've read all the comments but i might not remember everything i want to cover.

"bad stories"
This is of course all opinion. It will have a different effect on different people. Like jrpg stories often coincides with wether or not you like anime, because the stories can be similar to that kind of story telling.

"turn based combat sucks"
It does'nt have to. If the combat choices change every turn there can be a lot of strategy involved. Golden Sun and Baten Kaitos used turn based, but the combat was still fun because it had shifting elements.

"they refuse to evolve"
This is true in some effects, this is because in japan they arnt competing with games like the ones from bioware, since the Japanese don't buy them.

"No choices"
FF 7 and up allowed you to pick between negative, positive, or no response, it only effected the next line but it was letting you somewhat make the character have the outlook you want. Choices in recruitment was the main selling point of Radiata Stories as there is 172 characters to ally with or make an enemy out of. Pokemon has 150 possible requirements

Now another point i want to bring up is that they are not all Final Fantasy. I've always found FF to be sub-par, except the Tactics games. But I've played a lot of jrpgs and the have there differences. Look around and you can probably find one you like.
 

Therumancer

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Well, I prefer turn based combat because that's what an RPG should be like. Stats mattering more than the twitch reflex of the person playing. Once games go real time, it becomes increasingly twitchy. I had this issue going back to games like "Eye Of The Beholder" when they tried real time RPG combat for the very first time I believe, and simply put it made spellcasting a serious pain in the keister, and pretty much demonstrated why you can't really create and carefully control your own party in a real time enviroment.

In general I think JRPGs haven't evolved much becayse they are perfect for what they do. Your either a fan, or your not. For a lot of the "twitch based" FPS generation which outnumbers us RPG fans, the conventions are anethma. Action RPGs are an attempt to create RPGs that will hit more than a niche market, and while decent, most of them don't appeal to me as much as a "true" turn based RPG.

Truthfully though while JRPGs are true to their genere, I vastly prefer the "dead" school of true WRPGs. Wizardry, Might and Magic, Ultima (pre Pagan). The closest I've seen recently has been "Dragon Age", but honestly that missed the fun of creating my own party from scratch. I miss being able to make say a Faerie Ninja, a Lizardman Fighter, or a Fellpurr Samurai. Never mind the good old fashioned "annoyance" of rolling my attributes as opposed to being handed a pool of points which is the best you generally see today.

I also suspect going back in time and assasinating certain members of the Might and Magic 3 design team might do the genere some good. Truthfully I miss the day when each item was hand crafted and assigned stats by a real person. Today you only see that for special items, and typically they wind up lacking compared to the "dial a lewt" tables. I ceased to get much satisfaction from games that rolled a prefix, base, and suffix, especially when some of them get really redundant and silly sounding. Oh gee, I just randomly rolled a Luddite's Laser Bow of The Flies... and the game tells me it's somehow made out of Ebony.

I understand some people enjoy that, but it irks me. It was interesting the first couple of times, in part for the laugh factor, but now it's just become a refuge for lazy programmers with no grounding in classic RPGs (pnp or otherwise).
 

Onyx Oblivion

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drisky said:
"No choices"
Choices in recruitment was the main selling point of Radiata Stories as there is 172 characters to ally with or make an enemy out of.
Holy shit, I completely forgot about that game. It was actually very good, all the more impressive was the freaking 172 characters didn't feel like cut-out variations on one another.
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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See, these arguments would be a lot more convincing if I hadn't seen a ton of different JRPG intro movies (most apparently using in-game rendering) courtesy of Unskippable, because after watching those you couldn't pay me to play the games. And no, it's not that they are making jokes at the game's expense that puts me off, as I've actually went out and purchased games they made fun of after seeing the intro cinematic before on a number of occasions.

And while male characters might not be indistinguishable from girls in games made by somebody other than Square-Enix, they are still typically rather effeminate and pretty much always depicted in a style highly influenced by anime, and I can't stand anime.
 

Abedeus

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Baby Tea said:
I have never seen a good story in a JRPG.
Sorry, maybe I've played the wrong ones, but choice has nothing to do with it. It's just cliche after cliche and always with the bad dialog. The JRPG I liked the most in terms of gameplay, Eternal Sonata, had the worst story. It was so pretentious, and so flat out awful that I skipped every cutscene after watching the first few, hoping it would turn out better.
It didn't.
Play Persona 3/4 on PS2 or Devil Survivor/The World Ends With You on the DS. So many action twists... I was actually shocked when it was revealed that in Devil Survivor, where your protagonist's team is trapped inside of Tokyo's district (and they can see how long a person has to live, any person)
the reason none of the soldiers are to die in 7 days is that they will retreat on the seventh day of the lockdown, and use a neutron bomb to kill everyone inside of Tokyo along with demons

Seriously, it was horrifying.
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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Onyx Oblivion said:
hURR dURR dERP said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
okay...deep breath!

Eternal Sonata (you control directly when turn comes up), Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, V Chronicles (you control directly when turn comes up), The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts 39539854321865916901/21851985 days, Final Fantasy 12, FF12: Revanent Wings, Blue Dragon Plus
I haven't played all of those, but of the ones I recognise at least half are still turn-based, just slightly different from classic turn-based.
umm. which ones are those?
Revenant Wings and Blue Dragon Plus are RTS games, not jRPGS.
TWEWY, Kingdom Hearts and Infinite Undiscovery are action RPGs, not jRPGs.
Eternal Sonata (and apparently V Chronicles, but I haven't tried that one) are turn-based.
 

drisky

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hURR dURR dERP said:
Revenant Wings and Blue Dragon Plus are RTS games, not jRPGS.
TWEWY, Kingdom Hearts and Infinite Undiscovery are action RPGs, not jRPGs.
Eternal Sonata (and apparently V Chronicles, but I haven't tried that one) are turn-based.
They are from japan, hence the j
jrpgs arnt turn based by definition
 

Axeli

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hURR dURR dERP said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
hURR dURR dERP said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
okay...deep breath!

Eternal Sonata (you control directly when turn comes up), Star Ocean: The Last Hope, Infinite Undiscovery, Tales of Vesperia, Tales of Symphonia 2, V Chronicles (you control directly when turn comes up), The World Ends With You, Kingdom Hearts 39539854321865916901/21851985 days, Final Fantasy 12, FF12: Revanent Wings, Blue Dragon Plus
I haven't played all of those, but of the ones I recognise at least half are still turn-based, just slightly different from classic turn-based.
umm. which ones are those?
Revenant Wings and Blue Dragon Plus are RTS games, not jRPGS.
TWEWY, Kingdom Hearts and Infinite Undiscovery are action RPGs, not jRPGs.
Eternal Sonata (and apparently V Chronicles, but I haven't tried that one) are turn-based.
Wait, so the norm of JRPG sucks, but if a game doesn't apply to the norm anymore then it's not a viable example of JRPG evolving because it's not JRPG?

Then I declare Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc. etc. aren't WRPGs but Action/Shooter RPG. WRPGs are dead!
 

Hurr Durr Derp

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drisky said:
They are from japan, hence the j
jrpgs arnt turn based by definition
So jRPGs are any and all games with RPG elements that are from Japan? You're saying that games like Septerra Core and Anachronox aren't jRPGs, while games like Demon's Souls are?

That's it, from now on I'm hating jRPGs out of principle.

Axeli said:
Then I declare Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc. etc. aren't WRPGs but Action/Shooter RPG.
You have my blessing.

Axeli said:
WRPGs are dead!
Not quite. A little game called Dragon Age Origins came out a while ago, you might've heard of it...