These forums have some serious issues with JRPGs. And it's time to address them.

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Bobzer77

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fletch_talon said:
*Checks the RPG section at any and all online or physical game stores, as well as any form of publication that deals with videogames.*

Hmmmm turns out that JRPGs are in fact RPGs and the simple fact that a few of you don't think they should be doesn't mean a damn thing.

Its all in the name folks, regardless of how inaccurate the term "ROLE playing" is for a game like final fantasy is, it is an RPG because that is the genre to which it has been assigned.
In the world of videogames RPG refers to a game in which the primary feature is the creation or choice of a character whom you can customise through the use of leveling and stats.

END OF STORY.
No in your opinion that is what an RPG is but in my opinion every JRPG I have played has been useless. Just because I think every JRPG is useless doesn't mean they are
 

Axeli

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TheDoctor455 said:
Axeli said:
Baby Tea said:
Axeli said:
Please read my post above and get your facts straight. Video game and tabletop RPGs are defined completely differently. The former borrows the gameplay mechanic from the latter, nothing else.
Pardon me if I disagree with Wikipedia.
They are different in how they are presented, certainly, but I think the fundamental ideas are the same: You're given a role, one which you may or may not choose, and are free to play it as you wish. Baldur's Gate, for example, had a pretty linear story. You were a child of Bhaal, no matter what, and the story went one way only, changing cosmetically if you were of good, neutral, or evil alignments. But: You chose your dialog, your quests, your companions! You defined your character. And even though the story was linear in how it played out, and many many of the choices were merely cosmetic, it was your story because you chose how you reacted to everything. You played your role.
That is a role playing game.

And I have yet to see that in a JRPG.
If it's out there, point the way.
Otherwise, these rail-RPGs aren't for me.
That is only your opinion. The wording "role playing" does not stem from there being literally roleplaying in the video games, but from the fact that they use similar gameplay mechanics.

I have sourced my claim, making it the universal one. Yours is just your own idea.

TheDoctor455 said:
VioletZer0 said:
On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.
Exactly.

You see Onyx, the thing about leveling systems and stat tracking is that they are not exclusive to the RPG formula anymore (they used to be), so they can't really be said to define an RPG. And I'm not saying that every choice you make in an RPG as to be a moral quandary, but I do feel that every choice in the game has to have some kind of consequence for the game world or you personally. Which leads me to another problem I have with most JRPGS: the inability to create your own character. Yes, while this does generally mean that the main character would have voice acting, this also means that his/her personality is set in stone, and all your doing is taking over for the combat. For an RPG to truly be called an RPG, and this goes back to DND, it has to allow you to define your character's personality through in-game actions.
No. The fact that genres overlap and hybrids exist doesn't at all invalidate the definition of RPG. And it's still only few games that heavily rely on stat/skill building and leveling in their gameplay. There's a difference between having elements from another genre and having the stat based system at the core of the mechanics.
Genres borrow from each other all the time, that is nothing new, though perhaps more common these days.
Congratulations, you completely missed my point. My main point was that creating your own character and using in-game actions has always been a part of RPGs since Dungeons and Dragons birthed the genre.
Actually I thought those points just weren't at all important. It's already been stated that the tabletop/pen-and-paper RPGs use a different definition of RPG than the video game genre. DnD might be definition of the former, but has little to do with the latter as anything else than inspiration.

Perhaps if you had played a wider variety of RPGs than just the typical DnD rip-offs, you'd see that character creation and player avatar are not rules set in stone.

I don't even know why you people keep insisting that RPGs should be defined so that they do not include JRPGs. WRPG and JRPG are clearly the same genre, only different in style (usually anyway). Two sub-genres. The other is typically closer to the DnD, true, by it's not the definition of RPG. Might be close to the definition of a typical WRPG, but I don't see how that matters when WRPG in itself is just another sub-genre itself.
 

stabnex

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Blame Yahtzee. He's the one who started it. I for one don't play them much anymore because they take over 100 hours each and I work full time. But when I did have the free time I fucking loved them for their epic story telling and non-challenging turn-based combat system. Excellent to play when you've been awake for 40 hours or second-hand stoned.
 

fletch_talon

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Nov 6, 2008
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Bobzer77 said:
fletch_talon said:
*Checks the RPG section at any and all online or physical game stores, as well as any form of publication that deals with videogames.*

Hmmmm turns out that JRPGs are in fact RPGs and the simple fact that a few of you don't think they should be doesn't mean a damn thing.

Its all in the name folks, regardless of how inaccurate the term "ROLE playing" is for a game like final fantasy is, it is an RPG because that is the genre to which it has been assigned.
In the world of videogames RPG refers to a game in which the primary feature is the creation or choice of a character whom you can customise through the use of leveling and stats.

END OF STORY.
No in your opinion that is what an RPG is but in my opinion every JRPG I have played has been useless. Just because I think every JRPG is useless doesn't mean they are
No, if it was a matter of opinion I would have said as much. The industry places Final Fantasy and other games like it into the RPG genre, the defining features of which are the customisation of characters by way of levels/spells/equipment etc.
You don't get a say in what is or isn't an RPG, because the videogames industry has already made that decision hence the reason we see Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Etrian Odyssey, Golden Sun and others filed under RPG wherever you look for them.
 

johnman

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VioletZer0 said:
On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.
Then by your stadards most FPS's are actually RPG's, you play the role of Gordon Freeman in Half life, so its an RPG? when coming to define a genre, role playing is a bad term.
 

Bobzer77

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fletch_talon said:
Bobzer77 said:
fletch_talon said:
*Checks the RPG section at any and all online or physical game stores, as well as any form of publication that deals with videogames.*

Hmmmm turns out that JRPGs are in fact RPGs and the simple fact that a few of you don't think they should be doesn't mean a damn thing.

Its all in the name folks, regardless of how inaccurate the term "ROLE playing" is for a game like final fantasy is, it is an RPG because that is the genre to which it has been assigned.
In the world of videogames RPG refers to a game in which the primary feature is the creation or choice of a character whom you can customise through the use of leveling and stats.

END OF STORY.
No in your opinion that is what an RPG is but in my opinion every JRPG I have played has been useless. Just because I think every JRPG is useless doesn't mean they are
No, if it was a matter of opinion I would have said as much. The industry places Final Fantasy and other games like it into the RPG genre, the defining features of which are the customisation of characters by way of levels/spells/equipment etc.
You don't get a say in what is or isn't an RPG, because the videogames industry has already made that decision hence the reason we see Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Etrian Odyssey, Golden Sun and others filed under RPG wherever you look for them.
Look at Modern Warfare 2, in multiplayer the player levels, chooses what equipment load out he/she wants and chooses perks. If the games industry labeled that as an RPG I could use your argument to ensure that it remained in that category even though we all know it's an FPS.
 

Simriel

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Dec 22, 2008
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I just can't stand the Japanese method of storytelling for the most part. Very few anime series catch me either, and those that do tend to have a more western approach to storytelling.
 

JenXXXJen

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It shouldn't bother me, but I agree, it is irritating to read people complaining about a genre of game they've probably never played, especially if you happen to like that genre.

About the girly men, it's worth pointing out that at least in Final Fantasy, which seems to be the main offender, there's generally only one or two pretty boys in the party (which generally consists of at least six characters), and they almost never look girly enough to actually be mistaken for women. People just like to exaggerate. Not that it's a solid reason to dismiss an entire genre.

And seriously, complaining about the stories is always ridiculous, compared to most other genre's they are better. Instead of WWII guy/Space marine tries to kill Nazi's/Nazi aliens, they actually try to be compelling, use story telling techniques, have actual character developement etc. Well, the good one's do anyway.
 

Bobzer77

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Noelveiga said:
Bobzer77 said:
Noelveiga said:
Bobzer77 said:
t allowed to argue whether jrpg's actually possess the elements that would make them a good j RPG?
-snip-
-snip-
So we are not allowed to argue whether jrpg's actually possess the elements that would make them a good j RPG?
No, you are "allowed" to discuss whether jRPGs should be called j RPGs, and you're certainly "allowed" to discuss whether jRPGs are fun or good games.

What doesn't really work is arguing that jRPGs are not RPGs, hence they are bad games. Surely you see the leap in logic you're taking right there.
Damn it suddenly gets hard to argue when someone says something thats absolutely correct...

Although I don't remember arguing that jRPGs are not RPGs,hence they are bad games, actually I quite clearly remember saying somewhere that although I found them useless that doesn't mean they are...

In that post I think I said that if JRPG's possessed the elements of an RPG other than levels and stats that they could potentially be games I would enjoy...
 

fletch_talon

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Nov 6, 2008
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Bobzer77 said:
fletch_talon said:
Bobzer77 said:
fletch_talon said:
*Checks the RPG section at any and all online or physical game stores, as well as any form of publication that deals with videogames.*

Hmmmm turns out that JRPGs are in fact RPGs and the simple fact that a few of you don't think they should be doesn't mean a damn thing.

Its all in the name folks, regardless of how inaccurate the term "ROLE playing" is for a game like final fantasy is, it is an RPG because that is the genre to which it has been assigned.
In the world of videogames RPG refers to a game in which the primary feature is the creation or choice of a character whom you can customise through the use of leveling and stats.

END OF STORY.
No in your opinion that is what an RPG is but in my opinion every JRPG I have played has been useless. Just because I think every JRPG is useless doesn't mean they are
No, if it was a matter of opinion I would have said as much. The industry places Final Fantasy and other games like it into the RPG genre, the defining features of which are the customisation of characters by way of levels/spells/equipment etc.
You don't get a say in what is or isn't an RPG, because the videogames industry has already made that decision hence the reason we see Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Etrian Odyssey, Golden Sun and others filed under RPG wherever you look for them.
Look at Modern Warfare 2, in multiplayer the player levels, chooses what equipment load out he/she wants and chooses perks. If the games industry labeled that as an RPG I could use your argument to ensure that it remained in that category even though we all know it's an FPS.
No you couldn't. The most you could do is claim that it belongs in both the FPS and RPG categories.
But since they generally seem to stick to placing each game in one main genre, and since the gameplay of Modern Warfare is focussed on the shooting and less on the leveling, its pretty clear that it belongs in FPS.
Pokemon on the other hand revolves entirely around making your creatures stronger. You do so by fighting strategically, but that doesn't make it fighting or strategy. The fighting serves the purpose of gaining experience and thus leveling constantly improving your character('s pokemon). Without this aspect Pokemon would be a completely different (and rather ridiculous) game. Pokemon is defined by its leveling system thus it is an RPG, Modern Warfare is defined by the shooting of people from a first person perspective, making it an FPS.

Long story short, just because other games share the features that define an RPG game, they are not instantly deemed an RPG.
 

JoshGod

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Caimekaze said:
VioletZer0 said:
On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.
But the problem with that is that most people have decided that by "Role Playing" it means "Being whoever you want to be, in this world" rather than "playing a role assigned to you".
but surely playing arole assigned to you can account for every game then?
 

alinos

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Nov 18, 2009
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VioletZer0 said:
On the contrary, RPGs are supposed to be about role playing. Calling a level up system an ''RPG element'' is ignorance. Common ignorance, but ignorance none the less.
yup but as he stated moral choices dont have to occur to roleplay either

the way i see it Role playing game is a misname in every game your playing some role whether its a second liutenant or the doctor RPG is the wrong name for the type of games not saying i have a better one but it encompasses alot and thats when people get pissy cos out of the 100 possible things that could be in an RPG one person wants these 20 while another wants those 20
 

Deofuta

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Damn, although I have not played them in years, I used to love the JRPG series. I haven't played any of the FF series, except for the tactics for the GBA/DS. Does anyone remember such titles as Wild Arms, Legend of Dragoon, and Legend of Legaia? Those were games I grew up on, and if i can find a working copy of LOD again I will most certainly play that for hours upon hours.
 

Klepa

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I haven't played a TON of JRPG's, but I've played a few.

The ones I have played, don't let you customize your own character. This isn't inherently a flaw, it's design. When the developer doesn't let you customize your character, they can give him a voice actor, and they can (hopefully) give the character more depth than you could. Basicly, a bunch of writers get paid to create a character that is cooler than you could've ever think of.

Here's the Catch-22. They have to make the hero, into The Hero [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero]. The developers can't force you to play a fat ugly female dwarf druid, because a lot of people will find it off-putting, and nobody will play an RPG where they don't like their own character. Just like nobody will watch a movie where there isn't a single person you can relate to. Because of this, in all the JRPG's I've come across, your character is always a human, always a man, always with a sword, always young, always thin, always attractive, always "good", always The Hero [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheHero].

Instead of giving people the option to make your character your own, they are often forced to give you a cookie-cutter character that you're likely to not dislike.
 

Nevyrmoore

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Onyx Oblivion said:
I thought that RPGs were about leveling up...
I realise that CRPGs will never be like TRPGs[footnote][small]Unless someone manages to design a true AI[/small][/footnote], and yet I still fucking raged...