These forums have some serious issues with JRPGs. And it's time to address them.

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JoonaspEST

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Nov 25, 2009
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The reasons i don't like JRPG's:

1. I dont have any gaming gear exept PC.
2. Non-realistic character. Just look at them. Either over-happy flowermen,-women or
depressed goth's emos etc. No offence to emod or goths but Im not into it.
3. Combat in first is mostly not in real-time. I like seamless combat and not menues. Secondly the moves that character's or mobs perform are atrocious and epileptic. Sounds most seem to omit are like a cat beign stepped at.
4. Conversations are sometimes atrociously big. I sometimes like big conversations like in Dragon Age. But id like to choose when I should listen to them or not. In JRPG most of the times these conversations are mandatory and you have to listen to at first horrible voice acting and secondly useless text that I don't want to hear. Such conversations should be a choice and not mandatory.
5. I prefer the usual run-of-the-mill fantasy storyline in wRPG's. I understand playing by the same storyline is boring. But in this case story brokes to two part: substance and the way its delivered. For wRPG's the story in substance stays the same but each game has diffrent ways to deliver it. By that way the way how the substance is altered and brought to the audience diffrent games shine or be damned. For JRPG's the story is same but you could not understand the way how they bring the substance to you. Maybe it's culture gap but in general their story's don't appeal to me.


I admit I've never played a JRPG and now maybe theis whole rant is rendered useless but when you constantly encouter news, threads, people who praise JRPG's you eventually get interested and research. But from the pictures, wikipedia articles, the style etc I have formed my oppinion on the genre. I don't go mental over the genre but i don't like it. It's just the way it is. And Onyx please accept that some people don't like just like people don't like diffrent food, music, etc.
 

Ohten

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Onyx Oblivion said:
[HEADING=1]Stop the blind hatred.[/HEADING]
1. Female looking men:

That's only mostly in Square Enix games. I'm sick of people thinking that all JRPGs are Square Enix games.
You're right, but even outside of Squeenix, let's take a look at another popular series of JRPGS: the MegaTen line of games released in the US by Atlas. Feminine men are a dime a dozen, but on the same note so are guys who can bench press an automobile and Average Joes in about the same numbers. Even in Arc the Lad, most of the good guys are a bit more effeminate than their western RPG brethren, or in the Mana/Tales games. Granted, some of the less-popular ones (Ars Arcana and Eternal Poison coming to mind) do shy away from this common factor, but the JRPG producers know what their fans like and lately have tried more and more to play into it.

2. Turn based combat:(snip)
Even so, this remains a hallmark of J-RPGs from when they first got really popular in the US, and many J-RPGs still follow the "Let's stand in groups 5 meters apart and take turns whaling on each other" formula.

3. Story's lame:
I tend to find a lot of J-RPG storylines trite and overly dramatic, often bringing supervillains and Big Bads out of nowhere, and plot twists that make little to no sense, never mind how in most of them (a few exceptions, like the Valkyrie Profile series, excluded) the main character remains a whiny git for most of the game until 2/3 through they get a proverbial kick in the balls and told to man up, only to revert back to whimpering in sequels.

4. Not really Role-Playing if you can't make choices

I thought that RPGs were about leveling up, not moral choices.

Example: When they say a game has "RPG elements", that doesn't mean moral choices have been added to the game. That means they've added a leveling system of some sort. Like the stat bars in GTA: San Andreas.

Edit: Some JRPGs do have moral choices, just few and far between, like Chrono Cross and the whole
Save Kid thing, which determines who can join you later on, cutting off about 10 characters depending on your choice.
RPGs as most Western gamers know them got their kickstart with Dungeons and Dragons, where two to six or more people sat at a table, one of them essentially God and the storyteller. In D&D, every choice you made, even a choice to go to a weapon shop while leaving Hargezz the chaotic evil half-orc fighter alone had ramifications (usually being that Hargezz was going to be hanged for murder and you had to bribe the guards to let him free, no easy feat if you've got a paladin with you).

J-RPGs only loosely follow this in that you assume the role of a main character you often don't get to customize to identify better with (My only issue with Persona 3 was that the main character was a scene kid with a bad-by-JRPG-standards haristyle) in what is almost always a forced, linear storyline, or a game with no genuine storyline beyond a series of cobbled-together side quests where no matter what you do you'll eventually have to fight an obligatory boss in every dungeon rather than being able to fast-talk your way out, or use the environment to your advantage.

I'm not saying J-RPGs are bad. I play a bunch of 'em, mostly Valkyrie Profile 1/2, Persona 3/FES, and the .hack series (and sequels). I'm saying a lot of the criticism leveled against them is deserved because most J-RPG companies these days have played heavily into anime cliches and tired-out archetypes for their cast rather than branch out into something interesting. When's the last time you've played a J-RPG and met a half-elf who wasn't actually the last of some ancient precursor race, and who wasn't stuffed with more magical apocalypse than all of Asgard?
 

Insert Comedy Here

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I think I gave one of the early Final Fantasy games a whack when I was young, and lost hard, but, back then I didn't know about different gaming genres, hadn't formulated my opinions on my gaming preferences, or have the hat that enabled me to do both.

So, I guess I'll have to get out there and play one.
 

Nmil-ek

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Dec 16, 2008
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Personally I enjoy some RPGs I enjoy the ones that perpetuate a good story, that actually take the time to develop the characters I'm going to be stuck playing with for a 40+ hour game, I enjoy the length, challenge and depth that some can go to. Hell I enjoy turn based combat if its done right and tries to add some depth to strategy i.e. Valkyrie Profile, anything Shin Megami Tensei.

And what a load of old bollocks this thread likes to compose is there a massive amount of crap in the genre FUCK YES be it the stilted dialogue of Xenosaga, anime clichés galore in the Tales series or the horrifying levels of ambiguous characters in Eternal Sonata. But show me a genre that is not covered in crap "Oh but WRPGs are the divine gift to the people" the sheeple shall cry, Two Worlds, Hellgate London, Arcanum (this was bad not debating that point) Vampire the Masquerade Redemption, Jason and the Argonauts If we base judgement on a genre from its bad apples these five are enough to blast WRPGS through hell and back.

There?s plenty of original or different stories in the JRPG genre if your willing to look its not always bad guy wants to destroy the world, super powered teenagers stop him (although that is a scary majority of the bad titles). Lets look at say the Suikoden series every title has followed a country or group in a political struggle for one cause or another (minus the absolutely horrid DS game but that?s in no way cannon to the normal series), or Persona 4 which follows a group of high school kids (stop rolling your eyes I know) who travel through TVs into a dimension full of strange themed dungeons that reflect a persons inner thoughts one of which modelled after early games of the 80s like space invaders to solve a murder mystery, yeah clichéd as hell eh?

I love RPGs of both genres and can say that there really are some gems in the rough as with every genre, Sure you may not like turn based combat, but whos to say the story wont absolutely absorb you? Planescape Torment had some of the worst balanced combat ever implemented into a game but was one of the greatest role playing experiences of all time as well. Either way judging an entire genre on its worst apples is flat out moronic, we don?t judge all wrpgs by Jason and the Argonauts do we? The group mentality has to go it's getting real fuckin' boring.
 

The Spectator

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I've also turned off by the turnbased combat, but if you master it and give it time then it can become rather enjoyable.

Games like Chrono Cross was for me rather immersive, storywise. And the combat worked really well. But I would've prefered FFX in japanese, since it's so awkward in english.
 

Axolotl

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swagmanabz said:
okay stop wit the arguing of VATS im sorry i consider it a turn based style but
Not to overly pedantic but whether VATS is turn-based or not isn't an opinion. That VATS is not turn-based is a fact.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Sep 9, 2008
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Nmil-ek said:
Either way judging an entire genre on its worst apples is flat out moronic, we don?t judge all wrpgs by Jason and the Argonauts do we? The group mentality has to go it's getting real fuckin' boring.
That about sums it up. This site LOVES to do that.
 

Axeli

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Nmil-ek said:
Either way judging an entire genre on its worst apples is flat out moronic, we don?t judge all wrpgs by Jason and the Argonauts do we? The group mentality has to go it's getting real fuckin' boring.
I also second this.

Especially true when you consider that RPG is to Japan pretty much what FPS is to the west. Meaning there's a ton of them, which in turn means that there will be many of bad ones.
Ammunition for haters, not so much for people who get how generalization works.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Sep 9, 2008
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swagmanabz said:
Axolotl said:
swagmanabz said:
okay stop wit the arguing of VATS im sorry i consider it a turn based style but
Not to overly pedantic but whether VATS is turn-based or not isn't an opinion. That VATS is not turn-based is a fact.
ITS NOT AN OPINON WE ALL HAVE ARE OWN DEFINITIONS OF TURN BASED COMBAT OKAY, I CONSIDER CHOOSING A SELECTION OF PRESET MOVES THEN WATCHING YOU DO THEM WHILE YOUR ENEMY TAKES A TURN IN BETWEEN YOUR ACTIONS OKAY SO CAN WE GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT AND NOT WHETHER OR NOT A GAME HAS TURN BASED COMBAT AND MORE OF IF JRPGS SUCK OR NOT[(AND THEY DO)
But...they're not taking a turn between your actions. You essentially slowed down time to the point of nearly frozen, giving your opponent no real chance to react with VATS.
 
Jan 23, 2009
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lol, JRPGs. They suck.

Haahaaha I kid, I kid.

JRPGs are cool; but they are a niche genre. Like turn-based rts games.

edit; or like sim games. dont focus on the fact i mentioned turn based in my post lol.
 

matt87_50

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Apr 3, 2009
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Did you SEE the latest Unskippable, they give us photo realistic graphics, with the most non photo realistic game play...
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Sneaklemming said:
Like turn-based rts games.

edit; or like sim games. dont focus on the fact i mentioned turn based in my post lol.
okay. I was confused as hell there for a second.

Turn Based Real Time Strategy...That'd make the world explode.

matt87_50 said:
Did you SEE the latest Unskippable, they give us photo realistic graphics, with the most non photo realistic game play...
Why does it have to be realistic?
 

TJF588

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Kevvers said:
How hard would it be to have a little flavour to some of the optional dialog, to allow the player to have a few conversations which are actually remembered later on and have an effect on what your team-mates think of you? It doesn't have to change the whole story to have a consequence...
Got to this post, and I'd like to point out something in FFCC: Echoes of Time. Usually dialogue just auto-runs, especially since your character isn't characterized, but sometimes, rarely, you're given a choice of response. There's one in particular that you're joining along with some friends, trying to convince another friend to sing her song, and all three choices are the same. Seeing that made me LOL. Another set of responses were different phrases of varying 'niceties' that all equated to "No.".

The game's generic-NPC dialogues are great, and interactions carry over into the next round of dialogue (not sure if it would automatically do so, since I try not to skip anything, but I doubt it, at least in part), even going so far as to change how shopkeepers act. It's fun, to see these typically static roles actually have personalities that stay with them beyond one moment-in-time.
 

Branches

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Oct 30, 2008
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JRPGs are fun for a while, then you move on to bigger things.

Look I'm not going to rehash any early '99 to 2002 memories of playing FF7 and 8 all summers long. But let's get rid of the idea that they contain the end all, be all of games

Onyx Oblivion said:
1. Female looking men:
1. That really isn't a big deal, It's weird to everyone but the Japanese. You could make the case that every player in NBA2k9 looks like he's melting into the court with the sweat. Yes, their games leading men/women who are androgynous enough so that boys and girls can both enjoy the game without the threatening overtones of one or the other. It's acceptable in a sense that the Japanese RPG style after the move from 8-bit has some of its roots in Visual Kei subcultures. And with the move to 3D modeling, it's carried over.

Onyx Oblivion said:
2. Turn based combat
Turn-based combat is good when it involves strategy, not mindless Attack mashing. Now I plead the case that Turn based combat is an antiquated game characteristic. However, the amount of thought that goes into a 'true' encounter is staggering and tactical all at the same time.

But if The game wouldn't wear out it's Turn Based Combat welcome if you didn't have to fight 50 friggin marlboros to fill up on Ultima and Meltdown spells. But you have to lacking alternatives forwarded by game guides
So when it comes time for a boss fight, you realize in the opening seconds that smashing this thing isn't going to do it any good because your so used to playing encounters on Auto-pilot you've forgotten how to play tactically. It's just long and drawn out to keep playing the same battle over and over and over again.

Onyx Oblivion said:
3. Story's lame
Because. They Are. Final Fantasy Seven's storyline revolves around a ragtag group of environmentalists trying to save the world by bringing down a harsh corporation using guerilla tactics, and inadvertently causes what is better known as a Cosmic Clusterfuck by awakening Zardoz's pissed off sword wielding likeness. And the funny thing is that I liked FF7.
Now, Some of the newer games have some of the WORST stories out there. The translation will almost always be off to some degree, and the main concept at the core of the story will be misunderstood by the greater audience. You can't appeal to Captain Jack over there in Tempe, Arizona with a story based around the concept of Japanese-Taiwanese expanded political relations in the form of a Space Opera with subtle markings on each ship, character costume, and weapon that denotes party affiliation from either country.

The stories are BROAD. They are. But their meaning is worthless to Non-Japanese Audiences. Japanese games have suffered from the same psuedo-nationalistic writing that involves subcultures, genre references, historical contexts, all derived from the point of view of the Japanese writer. That's why JRPGs are enjoyed by younger generations. They are naive, and understand that at the core of these stories are the simple story telling they enjoy.

They don't get all the deeper meanings within the stories they just get that Sora and Kairi like each other, Riku's a dick and Oh look, Donald Duck And Goofy.

Protagonist, Love interest, Tragic Antagonist, and Comic Relief. Basic storytelling to its very core.


Onyx Oblivion said:
4. Not really Role-Playing if you can't make choices
That's the single most contradictory statement you could make. The phrase is ROLE-Playing GAME. I am not a ghostbuster, but if I'm playing Ghostbusters I'm fulfilling the role of the nameless, faceless, voiceless 5th man. Fallout 3 had choices, but they were either neutral, Good, Or evil and only steered you to 3 different conclusions that are only differing from each other by a very few degrees.

JRPG choices are more encapsulated choices in relation to the main plot. You can act like a dick in FF8 and get away with it because you're the "lone-wolf" kind of thing. And even then, you'll just piss off a character who may respond with a "......" or a "?!?!?!?!?!" but that doesn't alter the fact that it's strict for a creative reason.

In the end, the game will still steer you toward the ending intended for the overall story. When I write characters in stories, I usually have a plan of where they are going to go in this story. If they will die, if they will go insane. If you were to turn my writings into JRPGs, I'd give you choices in dialogue for different situations but still bring you into the runway I want you to land at.

You'll be playing the Role I'd like you to be in the big picture.

But whatever, I may be wrong.
 
Jan 23, 2009
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Onyx Oblivion said:
Sneaklemming said:
Like turn-based rts games.

edit; or like sim games. dont focus on the fact i mentioned turn based in my post lol.
okay. I was confused as hell there for a second.

Turn Based Real Time Strategy...That'd make the world explode.
The Total War series is Turn Based Real Time Strategy
 

Onyx Oblivion

Borderlands Addict. Again.
Sep 9, 2008
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Sneaklemming said:
Onyx Oblivion said:
Sneaklemming said:
Like turn-based rts games.

edit; or like sim games. dont focus on the fact i mentioned turn based in my post lol.
okay. I was confused as hell there for a second.

Turn Based Real Time Strategy...That'd make the world explode.
The Total War series is Turn Based Real Time Strategy
*world explodes*

HOW THE FUCK DOES THAT WORK?