Things you'd like to see changed in America

[Housebroken Lunatic]

*sigh*

Really? So you would be willing to bear arms and get slaughtered by your military if YOUR government started doing things you didn't agree with? Somehow I doubt that.

Doubt all you like. I would do just that if my government was acting the way the U.S have. Not because I really care about the victims, but because im a registered voter. I just find it to be pretty tasteless for them to assume that im with them in acting like a power hungry and homicidal despot abroad.

Im quite sure that most of you consider yourselves to be way more caring than I am, which makes it all pretty funny when you think about it. I would terrorize my own government over issues of bad taste. XD

The US has probably the largest and most modern military in the world right now. How do you propose the average citizen fight that? I'm sure you think we're all a bunch of gun crazy psychopaths over here with an assault rifle for every man, woman, and child. Not quite the case. I know ONE person who owns a gun. And I'm hardly a hermit. I think I saw in one of the anti-gun threads a stat that said about 21% of our citizens own weapons. So out of that number, you think we'd have a snowball's chance in hell against tanks with air support, not to mention the regular police forces in each city across the nation? Really? I should die in a meaningless slaughter? I don't agree with my country's foreign policy by a long shot, but I'm sure not gonna die for that. Sorry.

So what you're saying is that you and most americans agreeing with you, are perfectly happy with your government aiming it's military machine against OTHER countries, as long as it doesn't aim it towards the american population?

Boy, aren't you lot whipped into obedience? Whatever happened to "the land of the free"? The way you describe how your government would act against you for simply refusing to support their violent ways, you must live under quite the oppressive rule.

Here's a thought-if you think the American government should be taken down for their actions, why don't YOU gather together your anti-American forces and come on over? It's no more my problem than it is yours. In fact, it's more your problem because you're the one bitching about it. So put your ass on the line if you're so infuriated. Or is it easier to just talk loud from half a world away?

Okay, now it's getting scary, what makes you think im infuriated or even "talking loud"?

What is it with people when they confuse you with someone who actually gives a shit?

This is just a discussion for my own amusement, and witnessing a large part of you play out exactly the way I expect you to. It's all fun and games really.

So would you PLEASE stop assuming that im "infuriated" in any way? Im not. Like I said, im as calm as a hindu cow. : )

Now, you want to talk about WW2?

Hey, you opened up that can of worms. I just responded. ; )

Here goes. You are correct, noone knew about the Holocaust until very late in the war, so I apologize for that. But that just means that your country sat back and watched while an obviously evil dictator conquered Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark, France, Yugoslavia, Luxembourg, Norway, and attempted to eradicate the Russians. Sat there like cowards so they wouldn't start eyeing your country. Continued to give them excellent deals on iron ore and allow their troops passage in order to save your own asses. What you call neutrality, I'm willing to bet the rest of the continent considered cowardice. That's admirable...HOW exactly?

Oh that's an easy question to answer: it's pretty admirable because it meant not using the Swedish people as disposable playing pieces in engaging in a conflict that had nothing to do with Sweden.

Also, why should anyone care what the rest of the continent thought? The rest of the continent was more than happy to accept all the humanitarian aid and rebuilding of their bombed to hell cities and factories, weren't they?

As for the "good deals on iron ore": business is business, right?

It is very admirable for a government to consider war to be the absolutely last resort, if you ask me.

So, what's your point?

As for US intervention into WW2 however, the UK practically begged us before Pearl Harbor. So it's preferable to let countries we've been friends with for years get swept under because peace (under a brutal despot)is more important? You do realize that while the Nazis would have been defeated even without the US involvement, most of Europe would have been 'liberated' by the Soviets and at some point they would've taken over Sweden as well? Do you think life under Stalin would have been better?

We can't know that for sure.

And if you're trying to do some sort of trick question about communism here, know that im not as politically indoctrinated as you are into always consider socialist and communist ideals to always be bad and disgusting.

Also, what you seem to tactfully avoid here is the fact that while U.S intervention did help the brits, the U.S made new enemies among the russians during the aftermath of WW2. This led to a cold war, which risked destroying the entire world for several times.

I look forward to your rebuttal. As infuriating as your tone is, you at least have coherent thoughts so you're fun to debate with.

The reason why I have coherent thoughts is BECAUSE im not infuriated at all. Angry people tend to be quite incoherent. Like that guy a little further up who couldn't help himself but to say the word "fuck" for a ridiculous amount of times, just because he dislikes my sentiments in this thread.

But as I've told Zemalac as well: im not angry nor infuriated really. This is all just for my own fun and games and flexing my analysis of the world and people in general. : )

 

[Housebroken Lunatic]

Hmmm...so you write for your own amusement? That sounds like you mean that you delibrately write inflammatory statements to enjoy the reactions provoked. Which sounds like...trolling, no? Especially when you make such emphatic points, then turn around and say you're completely distanced from the subject.

Yes, it might sound like trolling. But there are a few vital differences. For starters I actually add something to the discussion rather than just vomiting incoherent and unintelligent lines for inflammatory purposes only.

As for keeping a distance from the subject, everyone does that, otherwise every thread would just be filled with emotional blabber. I just stay a bit more distanced than others, because im a selfish and arrogant bastard...

 

[Ignotis]

Shut up. Just shut the fuck up you stupid wannabe intellectual.

haha! Im no wannabe intellectual. Intelligence comes with some severe drawbacks. Given a choice I'd rather be stupid, since it would make me less painfully aware of the state of things.

Seriously? What the fuck is your problem man? You're honestly suggesting that in the case of genocide the rest of the world should respect that's countries soverignty and refuse to get involved? "Oh but if their sick of it they can just fight or leave." Bull. Fucking. Shit. I guess you feel like all those Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, communists, etc. were just being lazy and stupid when they didn't fight the Nazi War Machine and stopped themselves from getting slaughtered. Because it's just so fucking easy to fight an army. Sure they have great weapons, viechles, body armor, barracks, an information network, an airforce, propaganda, and lot's of money, but damnit you're sick of it! You can overcome the lack of supplies, training, weapons, allies, and every other disadvantage that comes from being a represed minority. And as for escaping, surely if they just put a little more heart into it they can sneak out of the country and into another countries' borders. Cause after all, it's not like the military is patrolling places, and that these other countries might not want the influx of refugees.

Seriously, fuck you man. You have no fucking clue how the world works. Isolationism doesn't work. Maybe you're familar with the saying "First they came for the Gypsies"; if you don't stop somebodies elses problems then eventually they'll become your problems, and there'll be nobody to help you.

Would you like some cheese with that w(h)ine? : )

Funny, he totally debunks everything you have said and you resort to childs play when faced with the truth.

No doubt U.S. foreign policy has been a joke the past century. But you dont seem to understand the difference between non-interventionism and isolationism. What you suggest is narcisstic and is to the extreme. I understand the the hatred for imperialism, I myself am very liberal and realize the U.S. no doubt has problems with foreign policy, we often like to pretend isolated third world countries some how threaten our way of life and spread democracy with carpet bombing. But to advocate we should never intervene and let genocide and war take its path is stupid. Then to act as if your opinion is absolute only shows how childish you are.

What good came from the Korean war? I dont know, try South Korea. A free, modernized country. Compare it to the north. A majority of the population lives in poverty, people die to common ailments and every house has speakers that cant be turned off that constantly play propaganda. Control is total. When the west put sanctions on it, millions of people died. I bet non-intervention would have secured the South Korean people against the war machine from the north? Oh wait, no

I also liked the contribution that came from Sweden with Darfur and Rwanda

And Somalia

I can go on. And yes, certain in sweden utilized the power of diplomatic immunity to help the jewish. But as a nation? No. And yes, the western powers didn't enter the war under the pretense of saving the jews. But did any power know of these horrific crimes before or even during the intense parts of the war?

You also suggest the U.S. not intervene in the western front against Germany. Smart. If it wasn't for the huge amounts of aid we sent to Britain, the battle of britain would have been all but lost. Civilian loss would be enormous due to the massive casualties contributed to the luftwafa. And the only reason the Russians essentially won Stalingrad was because the presence of U.S. intervention in the west, and the funds that kept Britain the last statemate against total nazi control. If we did not send aid, nor fight in the west Stalingrad would have been a even worse massacre. The Russians would have lost numerous more millions on top of the already staggering casualty list. This not theory-crafting. The death rate between the Russian and German regiments was staggering. The Russians barely won Stalingrad after losing countless millions more then the Germans, and that was only because Hitler was cocky and split up his eastern front in Russia.

In short, WW2 would have been lost. No, im no flag-waving patriotic zombie. This is basic fact. You would be speaking German right now. The neutrality would have been superficial as all superpowers that once posed a threat to Nazi germany would have faded away

 

[Ignotis]

I too, would like the U.S. to embrace the notion of non-intervention where it's needed. I too would like we not fabricate and create false enemies just because a culture exists somewhere in the world that doesn't necessarily agree with ours. I too would the U.S. embrace socialized healthcare like every other western power. But what Housebroken Lunatic advocates does not even correlate with Liberalism. The world is connected, the significance of boundaries are lessened and humanity first is put to higher importance before the nation you reside in. That is part of Liberalism. Extreme isolationism goes hand in hand with right wing nationalism. It is the opposite of muliticulturalism, every thing that makes liberalism. It is narcisstic, and the opposite of civilizations progress towards harmony. With that kind of mindset, the EU or UN would not exist.

A distrust of imperialism =/ isolationism.

 

[PurpleRain]

Hmmm...so you write for your own amusement? That sounds like you mean that you delibrately write inflammatory statements to enjoy the reactions provoked. Which sounds like...trolling, no? Especially when you make such emphatic points, then turn around and say you're completely distanced from the subject.

Yes, it might sound like trolling. But there are a few vital differences. For starters I actually add something to the discussion rather than just vomiting incoherent and unintelligent lines for inflammatory purposes only.

As for keeping a distance from the subject, everyone does that, otherwise every thread would just be filled with emotional blabber. I just stay a bit more distanced than others, because im a selfish and arrogant bastard...

I read your posts and you bring nothing intelligent to the subject. Yes, you do provide that hate-filled patriotic gun loving sod of an American we all like to make fun of (even Americans I've friended hate this so much) but that's about it. A lot of discussion on this thread is good; a lot better then I expected. A lot of it seems the history of America, their economic power and changes in politics, and it is all very interesting. You seem to be complaining is all and acting like a child with a toy gun.

Learn up about politics (global and historical). It's all very interesting and I recommend it. This will give you an amazing look at things such as current politics in America and how thigns could change for the better.

So please, I suggest start acting with some maturity and being to discuss things that are positives steps that the people can have a good mindset to back, or please just stop trolling here lad.

 

[Zemalac]

Oh, im sorry. I seem to have given the impression that im actually trying to change people. And I know it can seem that way, because some people have occasionally considered my writing to be very passionate (which brings in your view of it being "filled with rage", since rage is a sort of passion as well).

But im not. I don't hold the slightest belief that americans, or any one else for that matter will change. A lot more skillful and certainly a lot more diplomatic people have tried to show you the way to improvement over and over again. But most of them were either killed for it, or simply ignored.

I write for my own amusement. I find it funny that even if I smack the truth across the face of someone even in the most aggressive and non-diplomatic fashion, they still won't hear of it. And it's not because I don't make valid points... But because I "alienate" the audience too much! XD

It's quite hilarious when you think about it, which is what makes it funny to do.

I wouldn't do it if it didn't amused me. But rest assured, im completely distanced from the issue at hand. I don't really care if manage to make anyone change or not. It's most likely they won't anyway and even if they did, the net results would still always be the same...

So...you're a troll.

To be honest, I'm not that surprised, though I can't really fathom the level of willful blindness it must take to think that making an idiot of yourself and a mockery of your own beliefs is "funny." It just makes you look like an asshole.

If you aren't willing to actually debate the subject and are just trying to annoy people, stop posting and find something better to do with your life.

EDIT: And, if you do continue talking, use the damn edit button and stop double-posting.

 

[Seldon2639]

I implore you to name one stable democracy (so, Italy doesn't count, what with the "we're completely dismantling the government every three years or so" thing) which has a vibrant third-party. In America, third-parties have always subsumed and replaced existing parties. Japan just recently formed a second party for the reasons I listed.

There is that one place, the United Kingdom I believe it's called, I dunno if you've heard of it.

I've honestly never heard of it. Weird, right? Kind of like how you've apparently never heard of either (a) reading a full post, or (b) reading any of the four other discussions of this issue. For simplicity's sake:

"In order to form a majority government (necessary in a parliamentary form of government to control the executive), I would wager that coalitional governments are frequently formed in the U.K. It wouldn't surprise me if the pattern went like this:

1. A "major" party gains enough power to control the legislature and executive branches
2. A group of the smaller "major" parties, or even of minor parties, forms together in order to topple the current regime.
3. If the new coalition is able to maintain cohesiveness, it will be a new party, if not, it will quickly dissolve and the process begins again.

I'll accept the charge that there's less churn in American democracy, but what we forget is that the Democratic and Republican parties are actually "big tents" which, while unified on some issues, are actually made up of a bunch of smaller groups. The difference seems to be that in America, the parties can change their stances without actually changing their names. Republicans (under Teddy Roosevelt) were the party against corporate corruption, and in favor of conservationism. Sounds pretty different, eh?

So, you're right. In the U.K, there are more "parties". But, I would wager that if we Americans had a proportional representation, rather than a winner-take-all representation, we would have more by way of "third parties". But, given that in any conceivable system, you need a majority, you'd still find the "third" parties aligning with the "first" parties in order to get things done. It would allow people to "vote" third party and have it "count", but it wouldn't change (I assert) the makeup of the legislature itself.

Nader voters would vote for his whacked out party, but those legislators would end up supporting the "Democratic" party anyway. NARAL could be its own party, but those legislators would end up as part of the "Democratic" party itself. That's mostly my issue. I don't find more than a semantic difference between the American system and any "multi-party" system given that the like-minded parties will always congregate together for more power."

 

[Agema]

Not really.

In first past the post, yes, everyone just squeezes into the main two parties, because there's no point doing otherwise. However, you've not understood proportional representation.

Small parties don't just sign up to the senior party's agenda, they get to impose a little of their own. In the example you give, if the Dems needed Nader votes, they would have to implement some policies that were Nader-friendly rather than theirs. Republicans could offer even more Nader-friendly policies to get his alliance instead.

Thus small parties really do get their foot in the door of the political system, because their support ends up needed, and they have politicians to fight their corner. In first past the post, they can be eternally ignored as they never get even a single elected representative to influence anyone.

 

[bilkobob]

Immigration and the prison system.

The US prison system- it's overcrowded. Drop non-violent drug offenders, and instead of jailing them in an already overcrowded system, just fine them (on par with traffic violation fines in most cases), place them in a mandatory drug rehab (not a jail cell)- if you are guilty of traffic violations and have to take mandatory driving or traffic school lessons, why not do the equivalent for drug offenders and rehab programs instead of prison?

Illegal immigrants- Illegals make up nearly 33% of our prison population. I hate to sound like a hardcore right winger, but if you come here illegally and break other laws, then you should be sent back to wherever you come from. Other countries do it, we seem to sit 'em in a jail cell. Go back home law breaker! Now I am excluding those that commit heinous crimes; heinous criminals deserve to sit in a jail cell... or worse. Immigration and our prison problem are intertwined, and there are many other issues and concerns that illegal immigration brings, therefore here are some other thoughts about immigration:

I am all for anyone that wants to come here and build a better life. But let's face it, we have a lot of areas that need improvement. First, I don't blame illegals for our immigration problems, in fact, we need a system that assimilates immigrants much more effectively; but as it stands it's an issue that causes lots of headaches- to name a couple off the top of my head: taxes go up and there is always a threat of not knowing who or what (think diseases and other things like drug and gun running and other violent crap) is coming over the border. Start going after businesses that engage in illegal hiring practices. It's wrong to push tax-paying people out of work and it is certainly wrong to force illegals into slave-wage labor. Businesses, especially corporations like Tyson and other agra businesses, should face billion dollar fines if they are caught and their CEO's are the ones that should face sitting in a jail cell, not poor little Paco from Tijuana, who just wants to work.

Go after corruption in government, especially along the border. Both the US and Mexico need to work together to clamp down on this crap.

End the war on drugs! Period. Decriminalize certain less harmful drugs like marijuana, regulate it, then tax the shit out of it. Marijuana is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th largest cash crops in most the states, so why do we need people crossing the border to get it? As for as the harsher drugs are concerned like cocaine and heroin... change the laws. The simple fact of the matter is that without demand there is no supply. No matter how hard you want to end something, so long as there is a demand, there will always be a supply. Cut off the demand. My only solution to this is education and drug rehab. Certainly seems better than a failed and expensive war on drugs, a butt load of drug-running illegals, and shitload of violence along the border.

Oh, and one last thing. While I am not for building a wall along the border, the logistics of which are stupid, expensive, and wouldn't work anyways, I am for maintaining one with proper security and technological improvements.

Anyways, enough of my rant.

 

[peterwolfe]

My #1 pet peeve in America is people referring to our leaders as Hitler. Clinton, Bush, Obama...it's kinda really annoying.

 

[Anarchy In Detroit]

1. Metric system. No doubt.
2. Adopt a tax code similar to say, Germany's. Straight to the point.
3. Mandatory trade schooling for people not going to college.
4. Reign in "free" trade. You will not fire Americans only to move your business to another country where you abuse workers and pollute. Don't like it? Tough shit, get an army.
5. No tax cuts or subsidies for corporations.
6. Severe punishment of leaders who break laws.
7. Impose quotas on certain foreign products, just like they do to us.
8. The abolishment of lobbying. At this point nobody gets what they vote for because they aren't throwing money at the lawmakers. Ex) Health Insurance
9. Representatives and Senators will NOT get health care if we do not all have it. Not with tax money anyways.
10. Representatives and Senators will be paid the average income of the district they represent. As our fortunes increase so do theirs.
11. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are hung, drawn, and quartered. mAnn Coulter's penis is exposed and she is laughed out of public.
12. Winner take all system. No more of this shit where both parties are deadlocked and don't do diddly squat. The winner leads. If they are not liked by the people they can be voted out next time.
13. More parties. Three, four, five... I don't care. Clearly the Democrats and Republicans aren't on our sides so fuck em both.
14. These Republican Senators having discussions with dictators need to be tried for treason.
15. End immigration except in certain cases.
16. Deport any illegal immigrants. Why not? They do it in other countries.
17. Cut the military down and focus on special forces and the air force.
18. Standard infantry will consist of National Guard units. Thousands of men are no longer needed. It isn't cost effective to occupy foreign countries anymore.
19. Defense contractors caught abusing tax money have their contracts cancelled. Suck it. You're replaceable.
20. Institute a vote of no confidence to eliminate ineffectual leaders and cut our losses. Imagine if Bush Jr. was booted out sooner.
21. Ban the Confederate flag.
22. Schools will no longer pay for sports. Their budget is for school ONLY. Sports will be handled privately. I don't give two shits if you play basketball or not, it furthers no national goals.
23. Physical education will consist of health classes and instruction in proper exercise and diet. Being a country of fat fucks isn't funny or cute, it's just sweaty and gross. In fact, replace school sports teams with a good gym available to all students. Without a needlessly competetive environment everyone will get involved.
24. Mass transportation. All made in America too.
25. Legalize marijuana.
26. In case you couldn't take a hint before, provide health care to all.
27. Anyone shouting down, threatening others with guns, or generally hindering the democratic process at Town Hall meetings will be beaten severely by riot police. You had a chance to be civil and you chose not to. You will be treated accordingly.

 

[PurpleRain]

1)"Racism much less please!"
2)Garfield must die!
3)Make up your minds about Irak please! Are you in or out?

PS: It would also help if 90% of you weren't a bunch of fat, uneducated rednecks with mullets and Paris Hilton.
(Oh hypocritical humor, how I love you.)

1)Hmm? What about many countries in Africa? I'm sure their problems with racism are a bit more intense then America.
2)Then we wouldn't have Garfield Minus Garfield.
3)Irak? Where is that because I don't think it's on this planet. If indeed you were talking about the Middle East and Iraq in general, I think it's a bit more problematic then you might think.

 

[Marbas]

, when it really should have been the americans themselves doing it against their despot government.

I'd really rather not see my country experience it's own version of The Troubles. That would be fucking terrible. You're an idiotic extremist for even suggesting that.

Tough shit. But you know what? I don't see any reason to care about your "feelings" when people are dying because of what your government does and the fact that americans either support it, or just sit idly by condemning it, but not taking any real action against it's abuse of power.

Your same reasoning for not getting involved in another country's conflicts applies just as well to not having to actively involve yourself in the destruction of a system or ideology you don't support.

the prison system.

Yes please. Our prison system is fucking terrible.

 

[Ayrav]

Get rid of their nukes so that they can use that money and feed the world.

Sir I wish not to question your intellect but who on earth might you suggest is gonna buy all these nukes?

A more proper strategy would be, stop spending the yearly budget on the military and take all that money and feed and clothe the poor.

You already have the right to bear arms, no country is going to try invading you because it would be impossible to pacify a population where pretty much everyone is packing heat.

Quite simply, America doesn't really need a military force. All that money being spent on stealth bombers, Nimitz class carriers, nukes, firerarms humvees etc. etc. is money wasted...

You're ignorance of America is astonishing at best.

 

[Rhatar Khurin]

US TV is ok, just the peeps in charge suck

 

[Imat]

The only thing I want to change about America is the bad rap it gets from other countries who can't see the forest for the trees. We're vocal, yes, and we make mistakes, but so does EVERYBODY ELSE. But we're the scrutinized ones because we're big and loud. People can't stand any country being different from their own. Here's an idea: Scrutinize your own political shortcomings and stay away from ours. We don't need every amateur politician on the internet telling us how their country is run or how they would do things differently. In fact, let's all jump over and start attacking England or Germany. Russia has plenty of issues. Japan faces problems everyday. I'm tired of this community acting as though America is the only country in the world with issues.

Things I'd Like to See Changed on the Escapist: Anti-American sentiments.

 

[dalek sec]

Outlaw Fox News. I know this isn't the biggest change we can do but it's a start atleast.

 

[Agema]

The only thing I want to change about America is the bad rap it gets from other countries who can't see the forest for the trees. We're vocal, yes, and we make mistakes, but so does EVERYBODY ELSE. But we're the scrutinized ones because we're big and loud. People can't stand any country being different from their own. Here's an idea: Scrutinize your own political shortcomings and stay away from ours. We don't need every amateur politician on the internet telling us how their country is run or how they would do things differently. In fact, let's all jump over and start attacking England or Germany. Russia has plenty of issues. Japan faces problems everyday. I'm tired of this community acting as though America is the only country in the world with issues.

Things I'd Like to See Changed on the Escapist: Anti-American sentiments.

Non-Americans criticise other countries and their own as well. And perhaps more importantly, when Americans want to go round criticising other nations, they do so as freely and happily as non-Americans do America.

You're right that the USA attracts a lot of attention because it is loud, influential and powerful. And frankly, that's just something Americans just have to suck up the pain on - if you're the biggest, shiniest, most prominent target, you just have to live with the fact a lot the slings and arrows of people's anger will hit you.