This will never fly...wait...WHAT?!

[obliviondoll]

motion controls always ruin a game unless the game was designed around them, and even then it doesn't always work.

Quoting him to support his side, seeing as how nobody seems to actually have read this post (even when replying directly to it).

Note the lines
"UNLESS the game was designed around them"
And
"even then it doesn't ALWAYS work"
(emphasis added on both)

So, in case you still don't get it, he's saying it's possible to make a game work with motion controls, but that they have to be built into the game from the start. Examples have been given already (every game quoted with motion control in the thread so far). Add the PAL version of Lair to the list of games where motion control works.

He's also said that even being built around motion control doesn't guarantee the controls will work, and points to Red Steel as an example of this point in later posts. Add the NTSC version of Lair to this list.

The same can be said for conventional controls (Look at the game of the first Iron Man movie - that had terrible controls), but motion controlled games have more failures than the more familiar control schemes. This is probably at least partly due to the lack of experience with development of motion controlled games. The companies turning out the better motion contorlled games are mostly the ones who have already turned out terrible ones and learned from their mistakes.

 

[Inglonias]

Indie gaming was something that I never thought I'd see catch on and become "cool." Now EVERYONE has played some indie game sometime! Flash games qualify as "indie" by the way.

 

[Skullmaster123]

In my opinion, the right thumbstick became cool when Ape Escape for the PS1 was released.

F*CKING RIGHTS!!!!!!!
*hugs you*

I'll drink to that.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

You think it always looks bad?

Spoiler

 

[Faisal Haji]

Iphone games , damn their taking over the market -_-

 

[tehweave]

After the gamecube, nintendo having the best selling game system? Yeah, right.

What the...

 

[Kyuubi Fanatic]

Dual Analog Sticks. Oh how I love them now ^_^

 

[thahat]

Motion controls, but it turns out if done right they can add a lot to the game.

The Wii is my most used home console because of the really fun games on it.

the wii is the most use home console, because it is friendly, c;ean looking and the cheapest of the consoles. the wii is also the most SOLD console 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand.
because of the lack of fun games on it XD
by fun i mean re-playable. the wii lacks those. oh, yes, and it has less graphical power then MY G-D D-MN GAMECUBE XD *selfcensors*

You sure about that? The Wii has more graphical power than the gamecube as far as I have seen. And lack of fun games on it, amusing.
No More Heroes, No More Heroes 2, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Mario Galaxy 2, New Super Mario Brothers Wii, Lit, Wario Land Shake It, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Tatsunoko versus Capcom, Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess, Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles the Crystal Bearers, Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles, Monster Hunter Tri, Mario Kart Wii, Super Smash Brothers Brawl and don't get me started on virtual console. I have more games for the Wii than any other system I have this generation.

Soooo yeah, it's a pretty kickass console with awesome games.

wii has the same innerds as the gamecube, but has a hard disk, and supports a higher resolution because of said addition. yet, the gamecube already supported 3d games, evne though it was never used, the wii, does not.
il give you super smash and monster hunter tri, maybe even the virtual console but that cant be counted as thats ports from other consoles. metroid, yes, but metroid was already on the GC, same with zelda twilight princess, what was actualy made for the GC ( link is a lefty in the GC version, as in all other zelda's > the wii version is mirrored aftrwards cause most people are righty's )

 

[LeonLethality]

wii has the same innerds as the gamecube, but has a hard disk, and supports a higher resolution because of said addition. yet, the gamecube already supported 3d games, evne though it was never used, the wii, does not.
il give you super smash and monster hunter tri, maybe even the virtual console but that cant be counted as thats ports from other consoles. metroid, yes, but metroid was already on the GC, same with zelda twilight princess, what was actualy made for the GC ( link is a lefty in the GC version, as in all other zelda's > the wii version is mirrored aftrwards cause most people are righty's )

Yes because having different hardware from the Gamecube including but not limited to processor means it MUST have the same parts.
I'm aware of TP being made for the Gamecube, and the third Metroid Prime game was made for the Wii as well as the other two being ported over with Wii controls in the Trilogy release.

 

[thahat]

wii has the same innerds as the gamecube, but has a hard disk, and supports a higher resolution because of said addition. yet, the gamecube already supported 3d games, evne though it was never used, the wii, does not.
il give you super smash and monster hunter tri, maybe even the virtual console but that cant be counted as thats ports from other consoles. metroid, yes, but metroid was already on the GC, same with zelda twilight princess, what was actualy made for the GC ( link is a lefty in the GC version, as in all other zelda's > the wii version is mirrored aftrwards cause most people are righty's )

Yes because having different hardware from the Gamecube including but not limited to processor means it MUST have the same parts.
I'm aware of TP being made for the Gamecube, and the third Metroid Prime game was made for the Wii as well as the other two being ported over with Wii controls in the Trilogy release.

someone wrcked both on the interwebs. most parts were the same, your sarcasm is commendable though ^^ -takes off hat to sarcasm-

 

[manythings]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

Mainly because it's used to make games based off anime look more like the anime. I agree that most of the time it's not well used, but I think in the right situation it can actually present an atmosphere other types of animation cannot. Case in point, LoZ Wind Waker.

I am more than happy to dispute that. I would class Wind Waker as one of the worse examples of it. Okami is the only one I consider a success because it is consistent, it looks like a flowing painting where your powers come from sumi-e style art.

 

[syndicated44]

I remember when the Rumble Paks first came out and I thought that they would never catch on. I was so sure of it, I thought the idea was stupid as all hell.

Now I realized (after the rumble feature was accidentally turned) that shooting just doesn't feel like shooting anymore without it.

Do any of you have any examples of advancements in gaming, or design choices that you thought was doomed, stupid, and pointless at the time but now see everywhere?

Ya know I had that exact conversation with someone the other day. I remember getting that MASSIVE add on to my n64 controller maybe turning it once a week. Yet now I cannot for the life of me imagine gaming without it. It kinda sucks in a way..

 

[General Ken8]

Well, I thought that Medal of Honor was more popular than Call of Duty
And how wrong that would be today. . .

 

[manythings]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

You think it always looks bad?

Spoiler

Well A) That isn't in game, that is concept art so that is funnily enough a 2D image with Cell shading applied in the manner is it meant to be; B) That's sumi-e in stylistically; C) Okami is what I consider the only exception.

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Downloaded games without any hard copies. I am a convert myself(yay Steam).

Motion controls, but it turns out if done right they can add a lot to the game.

The Wii is my most used home console because of the really fun games on it.

Gonna have to vehemently disagree on this one, motion controls always ruin a game unless the game was designed around them, and even then it doesn't always work.

I'm going to have to point you to Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid Prime Trilogy.

But SMG2 was designed around it, and was designed by who I am assuming are Nintendo's best devs. Also, trilogy? Weren't the first two for the Gamecube?

Most games on the Wii are designed around motion controls, and there was a Wii Trilogy release that remade the first two games with the Wii controls.

I will admit the games with the tacked on motion controls are pretty shitty.

And, when one thinks about it, is pretty much every Wii game. Even games designed for the Wii don't even seem to be compatible with motion controls half the time. Aside from the few games you mentioned, which are the Nintendo cash cows and therefore have competent people working on them,
Wii. Games. Suck.

Anyway, one thing that I can't seem to comprehend the existence of is this Project Natal crap. Why is every game review site, magazine, or show so excited about it? It's just another motion sensor. If the Wii is as bad as it is with motion controls that are designed for it, imagine how terrible a console add-on is going to be.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

You think it always looks bad?

Spoiler

Well A) That isn't in game, that is concept art so that is funnily enough a 2D image with Cell shading applied in the manner is it meant to be; B) That's sumi-e in stylistically; C) Okami is what I consider the only exception.

So it can work when done well with the correct atmosphere.

And why did you give an A and B when B (Okami is the only exception) makes A (my image wasn't that of gameplay) a mute point?

 

[manythings]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

You think it always looks bad?

Spoiler

Well A) That isn't in game, that is concept art so that is funnily enough a 2D image with Cell shading applied in the manner is it meant to be; B) That's sumi-e in stylistically; C) Okami is what I consider the only exception.

So it can work when done well with the correct atmosphere.

And why did you give an A and B when B (Okami is the only exception) makes A (my image wasn't that of gameplay) a mute point?

Because you were trying to be Mr. Clever-Dick and when someone acts like Mr. Clever-Dick you treat them like Mr. Clever-Dick.

 

[Generator]

The right thumbstick.

Agreed. I can't think of a single PS1 game that used it, but when the following generation of consoles rolled around, it became an almost necessary part of console gaming.

That's a really good point, the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Ape Escape

And even that wasn't really all that necessary, since everything outside of the RC car could just be controlled with the face buttons.

I also played this weird shooting game demo that used it to shoot your gun; it felt uncomfortable and awkward.

 

[gigastrike]

This is what I thought when I was reading an early article on Borderlands. I could have sworn that it was gonna fly under the radar.

 

[Ciran]

Cell shading, which I consider distinct from illustrative art design. Cell shading is a technique used in comics to give 2D pictures the illusion of depth and so produce a false third dimension. Why is this so consistently applied to the gaming medium which is 99.9% 3D? And why do people love it so much? It always looks awful.

Mainly because it's used to make games based off anime look more like the anime. I agree that most of the time it's not well used, but I think in the right situation it can actually present an atmosphere other types of animation cannot. Case in point, LoZ Wind Waker.

I am more than happy to dispute that. I would class Wind Waker as one of the worse examples of it. Okami is the only one I consider a success because it is consistent, it looks like a flowing painting where your powers come from sumi-e style art.

Actually it accomplished the atmosphere of the game it was trying to, so by the parameters of success I set, it succeeded. For the atmosphere it was going for, any other kind of graphics would have looked awkward. I didn't say whether or not it looked good, that's a subjective viewpoint and not one I would try to argue as a hard fact.