Thomas the tank engine = Tyranny, Sexism and FEAR!

[Matt_LRR]

Not that I'm taking the side that TTTE is harmful to kids, but the negative reactions in this thread are interesting. To what extent is it bad as a parent to be aware of social biases or subtexts in media we present to kids? The ages between four and teen-hood are when the majorty of social development and social learning occurrs, mostly through behavior modelling, and frankly it's worth considering how what we show children influences their socialization.

It's important to note that the article wasn't calling for the banning of TTTE, simply pointing out things like the modeling of a totalitarian heirarchy (which exists) and a massive gender imbalance (which also exists). It's also worth noting that the sensational language was added by the reporter, not by the psychologist.

Is it really appropriate to get so bent out of shape over someone pointing out that a show targeted at kids (specifically boys) under-represents and subordinates women? It seems to me that that warrants consideration.

-m

 

[G-Dragon]

i like it how the researcher basically said that they want kids to question authority. in most cases, you want to respect ones authority until it becomes a problem. people who are constantly fighting authority usually end up as assholes who can't take directions

 

[BaldursBananaSoap]

Sounds very Marxist...

 

[sgtshock]

When I first read this article, I thought it was a satire on political correctness. But apparently it's actually a serious article.

My faith in humanity has been permanently lowered.

 

[MurderousToaster]

This is what's called 'having too much time on your hands' and 'reading into things far too much'.

 

[Red Right Hand]

I'm sorry but i had to mention this

"The engines and other mechanical characters never grow up," Prof. Wilton writes. "They are forever children, powerless and dependent on Sir Topham Hatt's good-will. They do not have the possibility of attaining full citizenship, but children do. ... They need different lessons to prepare them for the roles and responsibilities of full citizenship."

They don't grow up Prof. Wilton, because THEY'RE FUCKING TRAINS!!! I think I can safely say that when I was younger I never ever, thought I was a train. Even when watching Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

[SomeBritishDude]

Spoiler: However, because it makes me laugh - don't watch this at work with the sound on...

I...Umm...Oh...JESUS CHRIST!

 

[Bob_Marley42]

Shauna Wilton presented her findings at a conference of the Canadian Political Science Association in June, and was laughed off the stage.

Fixed?

 

[maninahat]

I once saw a report on how Thomas the Tank Engine would make children fear rail travel as adults, because of all the episodes that featured train accidents of some sort.

This report is terrible! The females are few because this series is clearly aimed at boys. They say the females are subordinate because they are carriages. But let us remember that a train without somekind of carriage or load is useless: freight/carriages serve an equally important role in the rail industry as the things pulling them. Further more, the fact that the female characters are represented by carriages simply serves to point out the physiological characteristics between men and women in real life. Men are often physically stronger - women have breasts. Physical characteristics do not equate sexism.

Fear of heirarchy? Lack of individual determinism? They call the authority the fat controller! He's the boss, but these fucking trains are clearly having a laugh at his expense. Plus Thomas is always going his own way, trying to prove himself superior to other engines (and often failing). The show warns against arrogance, but not individual streaks or courage.

 

[TimbukTurnip]

Im going to say exactly what i said in the previous thread about this (located here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.160485#4063950)

Thats a load of crap. I used to watch Thomas the Tank Engine when i was little, but i'm not sexist to women. Hell, i barely remember it. It's just a fun program for small kids, a bit of harmless fun. They'll forget it when they're older.
Quite frankly, Professor Shauna Wilton sounds like a hardcore feminist with a stick up her arse who needs to get laid.

 

[Matt_LRR]

I once saw a report on how Thomas the Tank Engine would make children fear rail travel as adults, because of all the episodes that featured train accidents of some sort.

This report is terrible! The females are few because this series is clearly aimed at boys. They say the females are subordinate because they are carriages. But let us remember that a train without somekind of carriage or load is useless: freight/carriages serve an equally important role in the rail industry as the things pulling them. Further more, the fact that the female characters are represented by carriages simply serves to point out the physiological characteristics between men and women in real life. Men are often physically stronger - women have breasts. Physical characteristics do not equate sexism.

Fear of heirarchy? Lack of individual determinism? They call the authority the fat controller! He's the boss, but these fucking trains are clearly having a laugh at his expense. Plus Thomas is always going his own way, trying to prove himself superior to other engines (and often failing). The show warns against arrogance, but not individual streaks or courage.

is the (41-8) under-representation of women in a show aimed at boys particularly defensible though? The show perpetuates a social power balance that most would see as unfavorable in the modern workplace. Should we not be socializing children (especially boys) to accept a more balanced ratio of men to women?

I mean, the tone of the article is ridiculous, but I don't think the points raised by the original report are inherrently invalid. Mind you, I'm arguing the benefits of considering the potential social effects in media, rather than actual political correctness.

-m

 

[TailsRodrigez]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaha...hahaha...hahahaha...ha...they cannot be serious

 

[maninahat]

I once saw a report on how Thomas the Tank Engine would make children fear rail travel as adults, because of all the episodes that featured train accidents of some sort.

This report is terrible! The females are few because this series is clearly aimed at boys. They say the females are subordinate because they are carriages. But let us remember that a train without somekind of carriage or load is useless: freight/carriages serve an equally important role in the rail industry as the things pulling them. Further more, the fact that the female characters are represented by carriages simply serves to point out the physiological characteristics between men and women in real life. Men are often physically stronger - women have breasts. Physical characteristics do not equate sexism.

Fear of heirarchy? Lack of individual determinism? They call the authority the fat controller! He's the boss, but these fucking trains are clearly having a laugh at his expense. Plus Thomas is always going his own way, trying to prove himself superior to other engines (and often failing). The show warns against arrogance, but not individual streaks or courage.

is the (41-8) under-representation of women in a show aimed at boys particularly defensible though? The show perpetuates a social power balance that most would see as unfavorable in the modern workplace. Should we not be socializing children (especially boys) to accept a more balanced ratio of men to women?

I mean, the tone of the article is ridiculous, but I don't think the points raised by the original report are inherrently invalid. Mind you, I'm arguing the benefits of considering the potential social effects in media, rather than actual political correctness.

-m

I don't think it perpetuates a social power in the sense that these characters aren't just male - they are boys, who do not have much of a concept of work place. They don't even perceive the characters in TTTE as "workers" as such, despite them obviously performing tasks and taking orders.

Boys also aren't seriously interested in girls, and naturally detest the "over-presence" of girls. If there was a Barbie advert, or a kissing scene or whatever on tv, boys tend to look away in disgust. Likewise, they will not enjoy a show that has any significant number of girl characters in. This adolesence is natural, and is specifically targeted at "girls" rather than women (boys may still enjoy shows with cool grannys. Anyone ever see "Pirates"?)

 

[Daffy F]

Wow. I've never had to read this deeply into Thomas&Friends before. It IS an interesting theory, and I can see how it might make sense, however I do not think this is founded, as it is a CHILDREN's television program. I think that when you think too much about it, then all sorts of nasty hidden agenda's can be hidden in anything. For example, I once saw a guide on the internet on how to fold a $10 bill in order to make a picture of the twin towers... I guess it depends on the individual. I watched this as a child, and I come from England.

 

[Matt_LRR]

I once saw a report on how Thomas the Tank Engine would make children fear rail travel as adults, because of all the episodes that featured train accidents of some sort.

This report is terrible! The females are few because this series is clearly aimed at boys. They say the females are subordinate because they are carriages. But let us remember that a train without somekind of carriage or load is useless: freight/carriages serve an equally important role in the rail industry as the things pulling them. Further more, the fact that the female characters are represented by carriages simply serves to point out the physiological characteristics between men and women in real life. Men are often physically stronger - women have breasts. Physical characteristics do not equate sexism.

Fear of heirarchy? Lack of individual determinism? They call the authority the fat controller! He's the boss, but these fucking trains are clearly having a laugh at his expense. Plus Thomas is always going his own way, trying to prove himself superior to other engines (and often failing). The show warns against arrogance, but not individual streaks or courage.

is the (41-8) under-representation of women in a show aimed at boys particularly defensible though? The show perpetuates a social power balance that most would see as unfavorable in the modern workplace. Should we not be socializing children (especially boys) to accept a more balanced ratio of men to women?

I mean, the tone of the article is ridiculous, but I don't think the points raised by the original report are inherrently invalid. Mind you, I'm arguing the benefits of considering the potential social effects in media, rather than actual political correctness.

-m

I don't think it perpetuates a social power in the sense that these characters aren't just male - they are boys, who do not have much of a concept of work place. They don't even perceive the characters in TTTE as "workers" as such, despite them obviously performing tasks and taking orders.

Boys also aren't seriously interested in girls, and naturally detest the "over-presence" of girls. If there was a Barbie advert, or a kissing scene or whatever on tv, boys tend to look away in disgust. Likewise, they will not enjoy a show that has any significant number of girl characters in. This adolesence is natural, and is specifically targeted at "girls" rather than women (boys may still enjoy shows with cool grannys. Anyone ever see "Pirates"?)

I think the claim that gender representation can't be equal to maintain the interest of boys is fair, but that wasn't really the core of my point. The researcher may have been over-reaching, and the article sensationalist, but why are we so quick to reject considering the possible social effects of the media we consume, and particularly that which we present to kids. That this is a kids show should not be a defence of the failings of a show, and the fact that 'it's a kids show, who cares" is showing up here so often is troubling- yeah, it's a kids show. Doesn't that suggest that it should be subject to more scrutiny, not less?

-m

 

[TheOrangeSocks]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqi5F5MqqTQ

I totally agree, kids should all watch this show instead.

 

[The Kangaroo]

i agree that it's fucked up but use the search bar

My apologies

No worries

 

[Stormz]

OH SHI- My Nephew loves that show. In fact it's one of his favorites.