Tired of being treated as a second class gamer....

[Nihilm]

Seriously, i cannot call myself a PC gamer, without making any opinion I have about anything remotely gaming related being elitist, all you console "peons" do realize that your being elitist against us sometimes, never really crossed your mind?

Have you ever wondered why some PC gamers feel entitled, why they say gaming is dieing because of consoles, it's not because they have the fancier equipment or because they feel superior because they built their system all by themselves, no, it is because they used to be on top and now all the devs have moved to consoles, now there is nothing inherently wrong with consoles, they are cheaper, easier to make games for, but I think why most PC gamers don't just switch is not their sense of entitlement, but the fact that you can't play console games with a mouse and a keyboard, atleast that is the reason why i would not switch.

I'm not going to argue which controller is better(keyboard/mouse obviously ), but that is not the point, the point is that first the devs treat us like we are all criminals(pirates), they start making games which are best-played on consoles, games that are more simple, because they use less buttons, because they are made for controllers, not keyboards. Then some people point that out, their argument is ignored because they are "elitist" what do they know, they get angry and insult the console players, suddenlt all PC gamers are elitists and nothing they ever say is true.

To bring out an analogy from the witcher 2, since that seems to be the hot topic recently, PC gamers are the elves and Console gamers are the humans, even though not all the elves are terrorists, they mostly get treated as such and even though not all the humans are racist assholes, they get treated as such back and you know if you call a elf terrorist long enough, he will actually become one.

I believe that we are all gamers and should be categorized if at all as such, not PC or console, hardcore or casual, but even I can't stand the hipocrisy among console gamers sometimes, ive never heard a console gamer being called elitist when they blatantly are, while I have seen PC gamers called elitist when all they were trying to do was make a point.

If you are of the mind that whenever you see a pro-PCgaming message you automatically think well this guy is a elitist asshole for thinking differently than me(read: thinking he is better than me) and actually daring to think that PCgaming is better than console gaming, then well sir your an Elitist/Racist, welcome to the club. Because that kind of attitude makes me think you are thinking you are better than him.

TL;DR - Don't reply if you didn't read through it.

 

[Durananrananrananran]

Well said sir. On balance, in the wider scheme of things, all this talk of elitism is just words on forums. Bluff and bluster. Some view it has harmless banter, others take it to be serious business.

Publishers have, and always will, follow the money. Consoles aren't immune from this, it killed both the Dreamcast and the Gamecube.

I play on consoles, and don't regard PC gamers as elitists. 99% of them all make valid points, act decently, and have a sense of humour, as do 99% of console gamers. Now watch the other 1% turn this thread into another pointless flame war.

(Come on people now, smile on your brother...)

 

[Toriver]

But a problem arises when you take that thinking the other way. If you make a game that you want to put on a console, you HAVE to have it use less buttons, because a controller only has so many buttons. You can't just keep adding buttons to a controller until the thing becomes some huge behemoth or else people are going to get turned off to it, and I would guarantee you that not many would buy into the idea of having to use a keyboard for a console. People are already getting on the WiiU controller's case a year before release because it looks big to them. But complicated controls do not always a good game make. Sometimes even on a PC simple controls and the requirement of only a few buttons can be refreshing. It can pretty easily save you from pressing the wrong button in a panic when that sudden swarm of enemies spawns out of nowhere!

Does access to more buttons for controls make PC gaming inherently better than console gaming? No way. Does it even make a keyboard/mouse better for games in general? Again, no. But in either case, it's no worse than a controller in general, either. You just have to take into account the type of game you're playing. There are certain types of games that do tend to work better with one or the other. I'm not going to step into the FPS debate on that, but I could probably safely say that the keyboard/mouse is better for RTS and real-time RPGs, while a controller does better for fighting (if you stick to PC vs console on that... ) or action-adventure Zelda/GoW-type games. The platform you prefer may then influence the type of games you prefer, but no one type of game is better than another either. As no game genre is inherently better than another, so it would follow, then, that no gaming platform is better than another. Each platform has limitations and different designs that need to be taken into account when designing a multi-platform game. If something doesn't work well on a PC or a console due to a design flaw, blame the developers for not anticipating that difficulty, not the PC or the console itself. Neither one is holding the industry back; developers just have to put more time and effort into ensuring that they're putting together a quality product that will be enjoyable for as many gamers as possible.

EDITed to flesh out the argument a bit better

 

[Nihilm]

But a problem arises when you take that thinking the other way. If you make a game that you want to put on a console, you HAVE to have it use less buttons, because a controller only has so many buttons. You can't just keep adding buttons to a controller until the thing becomes some huge behemoth or else people are going to get turned off to it, and I would guarantee you that not many would buy into the idea of having to use a keyboard for a console. People are already getting on the WiiU controller's case a year before release because it looks big to them. But complicated controls do not always a good game make. Sometimes even on a PC simple controls and the requirement of only a few buttons can be refreshing. It can pretty easily save you from pressing the wrong button in a panic when that sudden swarm of enemies spawns out of nowhere!

Does access to more buttons for controls make PC gaming inherently better than console gaming? No way. Does it even make a keyboard/mouse better for games in general? Again, no. But in either case, it's no worse than a controller in general, either. You just have to take into account the type of game you're playing. There are certain types of games that do tend to work better with one or the other. I'm not going to step into the FPS debate on that, but I could probably safely say that the keyboard/mouse is better for RTS and real-time RPGs, while a controller does better for fighting (if you stick to PC vs console on that... ) or action-adventure Zelda/GoW-type games. The platform you prefer may then influence the type of games you prefer, but no one type of game is better than another either. As no game genre is inherently better than another, so it would follow, then, that no gaming platform is better than another. Each platform has limitations and different designs that need to be taken into account when designing a multi-platform game. If something doesn't work well on a PC or a console due to a design flaw, blame the developers for not anticipating that difficulty, not the PC or the console itself. Neither one is holding the industry back; developers just have to put more time and effort into ensuring that they're putting together a quality product that will be enjoyable for as many gamers as possible.

EDITed to flesh out the argument a bit better

I can understand this, but I think it would improve the gaming community a whole lot if the consoles all had Keyboard and mouse compatibility, you know like the PC has gamepad compatibility, also you can design games to be somewhere in the middle, have somekind of action wheels, combo button presses for controllers, while making the wheel a choice for the keyboard for example.

I agree that more complexity isn't always good, but making everything as simple as possible is always not the best approach either, I alaso agree taht it depends on the game type as well and what kind of person you are and what game types appeal to you.

 

[Wolfram23]

It's interesting that each paragraph is also each new sentence. Periods are your friend

Anyway, I can agree with your general sentiment. But you should keep in mind that in terms of big titles, America is definitely making console games and Japan has pretty much always made console games, but European countries are actually making a lot of great PC games.

Also, I've played many console-ported games and they really aren't that bad usually. An awkward/sub par menu can be frustrating at times, but generally it's ok. I just played Dead Space 2 a few weeks ago on PC and it was fine with M+K, and it also ran at like 150fps lol but looked decent.

One thing I definitely agree with you about though is that a lot of console players will simply start spouting off "PC Elitist!!!" at anything that resembles praise for PCs... I think those are the real "consoletards", but I like to think most console gamers aren't like that.

Anyway I love my gaming PC but I made it last year and prior to that I had a PS3 Slim, and prior to that I've had NES, SNES, N64, NGC, and Wii so obviously I have console gaming roots and have no ill will towards consoles, even though it's more enjoyable for me to play at 60fps/1080p (PC) instead of 30fps/720p (console).

 

[DaHero]

Consoles are slimlined for quick and easy use. They don't require in-depth knowledge and since there won't be any problems, there's no need to have any knowledge as to how to fix the problem.

Console players don't find any problem with this because they have never experienced what it's like to come across a bug, or a weapon glitch, go into the system, find the engine.ini, and adjust the value to fix the problem. Fixing a small error like that is just one of the few things that make being a PC gamer worthwhile, but console elitists see it as a problem.

Console elitists will never understand because they've never had the experience of what real options are, the ability to adjust damage, edit levels, even the forge from Halo 3 can only do so much.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

GameBoy, Sega Game Gear, GameBoy Pocket, GameBoy Color, GameBoy Advance, Nintendo Entertainment System, Super Nintendo Entertainment System, Sega Genesis, Playstation, Nintendo 64, Playstation 2, GameCube, X-Box, X-Box 360.

Those are the various handhelds and consoles I've owned.

I'm also a PC gamer, currently using a $3000 gaming computer that I built from the ground up.

All I really have to say is: why can't you enjoy both for what they are?

If a whole bunch of my friends come over, we'll hit up the X-Box 360 since my gaming computer really just doesn't cut it for local gaming. But if no one's around and I feel like playing a game, or modding a game, then I'd rather be using my PC. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and I love them both.

Well... let me amend that. I love them both... when my X-Box 360 isn't bricked with a red ring from an official software update.

 

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Our way of doing things kinda forces us to put a rank and class system on everything. We're taught about it and we see it happen all around us, so what made you think the gaming industry would escape it? It's a pity, but as long as competition exists, so will discrimination.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Just want to point out that RRoDs can usually be fixed by replacing the heat transfer compound.

The 360 is just a computer, and made with cheap parts and workmanship.
You can fix it just as easily as any other computer made with cheap parts and workmanship.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

How does less buttons make games simpler exactly? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Truly deep games such as street fighter or blazeblue only need 6 and 4 buttons respectively to be much deeper than any pc rpg. It's all about how the game is designed. Buttons just are how you interact with the depth that's already in place.

 

[Nihilm]

How does less buttons make games simpler exactly? That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. Truly deep games such as street fighter or blazeblue only need 6 and 4 buttons respectively to be much deeper than any pc rpg. It's all about how the game is designed. Buttons just are how you interact with the depth that's already in place.

It doesn't wit ha competent developer and is not the case with all games, but most developers seem to think that controllers = less buttons, less buttons = less features GG.

 

[Zom-B]

[quote="Nihilm" post="9.290646.11532878"
I can understand this, but I think it would improve the gaming community a whole lot if the consoles all had Keyboard and mouse compatibility, you know like the PC has gamepad compatibility, also you can design games to be somewhere in the middle, have somekind of action wheels, combo button presses for controllers, while making the wheel a choice for the keyboard for example.[/quote]

That won't really work though. I mean, it will, but as soon as a game is made for a console that requires a keyboard it either makes the game unplayable for some people, which no publisher wants to do, or it forces people at worst to go out and buy a m&k, or at best hook up ones that they might have laying around already that may not even be wireless.

It's worked for PCs to have controller compatibility because the m&k combo is already the more complex control set up, a game that only requires a controller is easy, but it just doesn't work in reverse for current consoles.

Maybe that's where Sony and MS can go next, taking the PC control scheme and making it a reality on the next generation of gaming console. Regardless of that, consoles and PCs are converging anyway and sooner or later a gaming PC and a gaming console will be, for all intents and purposes, indistinguishable.

 

[Tuesday Night Fever]

priciest hardware isn't always the smartest buy, since hardware gets exponentially pricier. be on the lookout for hardware on the upper part of the "middle-class" stuff, they usually tend to last a little less long then the ultimate top of the range, but cost almost 40% cheaper.

I didn't go for priciest, actually. I went for best efficiency per dollar. So rather than getting top of the line for every part, I went for the "previous year's model", so to speak.

I did spend a little more than I originally wanted to on a new monitor though. But it's sooo pretty. And bigger than the TV I play X-Box on.

 

[Pearwood]

The only time I call elitism is when the word "consoletard" or some variet gets used. Or when people say "dumbed down for consoles", that always annoys me. It's dumbed down because the system before really was overcomplicated or, sometimes, it's dumbed down for dumb people.

 

[4RM3D]

But a problem arises when you take that thinking the other way. If you make a game that you want to put on a console, you HAVE to have it use less buttons, because a controller only has so many buttons. You can't just keep adding buttons to a controller until the thing becomes some huge behemoth or else people are going to get turned off to it, and I would guarantee you that not many would buy into the idea of having to use a keyboard for a console. People are already getting on the WiiU controller's case a year before release because it looks big to them. But complicated controls do not always a good game make. Sometimes even on a PC simple controls and the requirement of only a few buttons can be refreshing. It can pretty easily save you from pressing the wrong button in a panic when that sudden swarm of enemies spawns out of nowhere!

Does access to more buttons for controls make PC gaming inherently better than console gaming? No way. Does it even make a keyboard/mouse better for games in general? Again, no. But in either case, it's no worse than a controller in general, either. You just have to take into account the type of game you're playing. There are certain types of games that do tend to work better with one or the other. I'm not going to step into the FPS debate on that, but I could probably safely say that the keyboard/mouse is better for RTS and real-time RPGs, while a controller does better for fighting (if you stick to PC vs console on that... ) or action-adventure Zelda/GoW-type games. The platform you prefer may then influence the type of games you prefer, but no one type of game is better than another either. As no game genre is inherently better than another, so it would follow, then, that no gaming platform is better than another. Each platform has limitations and different designs that need to be taken into account when designing a multi-platform game. If something doesn't work well on a PC or a console due to a design flaw, blame the developers for not anticipating that difficulty, not the PC or the console itself. Neither one is holding the industry back; developers just have to put more time and effort into ensuring that they're putting together a quality product that will be enjoyable for as many gamers as possible.

EDITed to flesh out the argument a bit better

I can understand this, but I think it would improve the gaming community a whole lot if the consoles all had Keyboard and mouse compatibility, you know like the PC has gamepad compatibility, also you can design games to be somewhere in the middle, have somekind of action wheels, combo button presses for controllers, while making the wheel a choice for the keyboard for example.

I agree that more complexity isn't always good, but making everything as simple as possible is always not the best approach either, I alaso agree taht it depends on the game type as well and what kind of person you are and what game types appeal to you.

But the problem is that if you make a console game you can easily port it to the PC. But if you make a PC game it's more difficult to port it to the console (depending on the genre also). Well, that's not so much the problem. The problem is the result from that... that developers focus on the console first and PC second. And it's starting to piss me off that PC gamers are being placed second all the time.

 

[CleverNickname]

Rivarlies, both between companies and their fans, have always been there.

Nintendo and Sega had a friendly competition, mostly in good fun ("Nintendon't" is hilarious) and Nintendo won in the end.

N64 vs PSX was so interesting, it practically spawned two distinct gaming directions. Everybody, especially the gamers, won.

The PS2 won its generation by the sheer number of great games, even if most of them also came out on GCN or the PC or whathaveyou. Sony won so hard, Nintendo made a waggle-platform next, to avoid the tough fight altogether.

Then the XBox came along, and the Console Wars were born. "My cheap assortment of near-identical hardware running 98% of the same games is much better than yours, you dirty fanboy!" Every gamer lost.

The PC was only dragged into this because for the first time since the Commodore64, their plastic boxes full of fans could compare to some of our mid-range machines, so naturally everybody made sure we would lose some, too. Misery loves company?

It's not very admirable of PC Gamers to let themselves be dragged into these dick-measuring contests (especially since it's kindergartners inviting full-grown men...), but there you go.

And all that just because the guys who make the most money in PCs decided to give everyone cheap and easy access to online trash-talking. Good job, Bill.

 

[bluebomber138]

I don't really see why people should care about stuff like "PC vs Console", because the PC has some great games that you can only get on the PC (Like minecraft, but it appears that thats changing), and some great games that you just are better suited to the controller. I personally play both, and I've never thought that a game would be better on a different platform, unless I'm talking about graphics, which in the long run I don't care about anyways.