Titanic. The day common sense failed everyone

[paintman]

This is a discussion between a few friends and me that I thought was good enough to bring to the forums. We are currently watching Titanic, and are remembering how Rose only survives due to being on the door.

That said isn't it common sense? I know everyone panicked but you would figure a few people might have gone "look at all this stuff on the boat. I bet can make a raft."

So my friends and I started making a list of rafts or raft materials that could have saved hundreds. So far we have:

Bath Tubs
Dining Room Tables
Huge shipping crates (contested since cargo area first part to sink)
Doors (as in the movie)
Benches

So our questions to you is what haven't we thought of? And what do you think of this whole raft plan?

 

[Lukeje]

How would you get such Macguiver-esque rafts down to the water? It's rather a long drop. The actual lifeboats had specific pulley systems for that purpose.

Edit: I'm also aware that this is probably in relation to the film, and as such there could be loopholes introduced in the plot that make this a sensible idea.

 

[dstreet121]

I think maybe mattresses would work. Did the beds in Titanic have mattresses?

 

[RatRace123]

I'm not sure about the buoyancy of things like bath tubs, and add to the rather long drop, and the freezing water that would do you in in a matter of minutes, the panicked crowds would make attempts to create such rafts more difficult, depending on where you are you would have trouble reaching those items.

There's a lot of reasons why I don't think such a plan would be very successful. The lifeboats are the only real safe option.

 

[ultrachicken]

You need extremely buoyant rafts to stay on the surface after the giant fall. I don't think bathtubs or benches would cut it.

 

[Dags90]

It doesn't matter if you have a raft, as explained by Jack. The real dangers were the water and the undercurrent from the sinking boat. Have you ever jumped into sub 40 degree (Fahrenheit) water? It's very disorienting. They also had no idea how long the boat would stay up, so going back into the boat to look for something to float on could've just as easily sealed your death by sinking with the ship.

The raft plan is rather silly, there would've been no way to navigate them. And having been dunked in freezing water (and thus covered in wet clothes) and exposed to winter night's air, they would've succumbed to hypothermia anyway. Remember, only one rescue boat even went back for survivors, so even if you had a bunch of people who lived, they would've been adrift at sea and died anyway.

The common sense fail was in their inadequate preparation for such an event.

 

[Evil Top Hat]

If all you had was a dining table to cling on to you'd still die, either of exhaustion or from the freezing water.

As mentioned by others, the fall would also be a problem.

 

[Macgyvercas]

You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night. Even assuming they could get a raft like object, they would have had to hit the water first, unless they were very lucky, and due to the temperature of the water and the night air, hypothermia would have got them. From the time the Titanic sank at around 2:20 AM to the time the Carpathia arrived at around 4:00AM anyone in the water would have been dead. The only exception was Chief Baker Charles Joughin who had gone to his cabin twice to have a glass of brandy. Other than him, the only survivors were in lifeboats.

 

[Lilani]

This is a discussion between a few friends and me that I thought was good enough to bring to the forums. We are currently watching Titanic, and are remembering how Rose only survives due to being on the door.

That said isn't it common sense? I know everyone panicked but you would figure a few people might have gone "look at all this stuff on the boat. I bet can make a raft."

So my friends and I started making a list of rafts or raft materials that could have saved hundreds. So far we have:

Bath Tubs
Dining Room Tables
Huge shipping crates (contested since cargo area first part to sink)
Doors (as in the movie)
Benches

So our questions to you is what haven't we thought of? And what do you think of this whole raft plan?

Hm. Let's see...

Bath tubs are very heavy, and depending upon the shape very unwieldy. It would have taken a significant amount of time and manpower to hoist them to the top deck, and even then they would have needed some way to hoist them down to the water (the lifeboats were already attached to elaborate pulley systems designed for those boats). Either that, or wait until the water was level with the top deck. But wait, that didn't happen, did it? The Titanic eventually went stern-up, flipping everybody on board 90 degrees, along with any of their improvised flotation devices.

And even if you managed to get enough people to get one up to the top deck and hoist it down to the bottom, it could have held, what one person? Two maybe? Three or more would likely sink it. You'd definitely need more people than that to get one into the water.

Not to mention the bath tub might not have been very seaworthy, given the drain at the bottom. Those drain plugs are strong, but they are supposed to repel water from the top, not the bottom. Don't know how well that would have held up against the tides.

Dining room tables: Sure, but not very seaworthy. The legs would have, made them very unwieldy, and even if they snapped off all the legs any swell higher than 12 inches would have capsized the whole thing.

Crates: Maybe, but again it's a matter of seaworthiness. This is the middle of the ocean we're talking about, not a gentle stream. Sure, they would have served as an...alright raft, but it wouldn't hold together very well, especially with the beating the sea would give it. Plus the leakage of water between the slats would soak everyone aboard, causing them to either freeze to death, drown, or become terminally ill.

Doors: Yes, that would have worked for a time, but they have the same problem as the tables where any significant swell or moment of imbalance would capsize the whole thing, soaking everybody and making them no better than those in the water with no flotation devices.

Benches: Same problem as the crates: leaky slats and very unstable.

Of course, in that sort of desperate situation I'm sure many people thought of all these things, and those who tried were thinking less about seaworthiness and more about survival. But that's the thing: Of course many people tried these things, but they died anyway because none of those things were stable enough to keep them safe and dry. They either sunk, died from exposure, or both.

Remember, the boat didn't sink in the Caribbean. They were in arctic waters, with no sources of heat apart from their lamps and clothes--given they were dry. Just to get a little wet could have meant death sooner or later.

 

[paintman]

How would you get such Macguiver-esque rafts down to the water? It's rather a long drop. The actual lifeboats had specific pulley systems for that purpose.

hundreds of feet of quality rope on board.
Hatches built into almost every ship at right about 10 feet above the water line.
Worst case scenario the boat was sinking, so the water would come up to me pretty quickly.

I think maybe mattresses would work. Did the beds in Titanic have mattresses?

Cloth mattresses don't float very long.

I'm not sure about the buoyancy of things like bath tubs, and add to the rather long drop, and the freezing water that would do you in in a matter of minutes, the panicked crowds would make attempts to create such rafts more difficult, depending on where you are you would have trouble reaching those items.

There's a lot of reasons why I don't think such a plan would be very successful. The lifeboats are the only real safe option.

the tough part of a bath tub would't be the buoyancy (some ballast or outriggers would do it just fine) it would be closing off the drain with a water tight seal. Also safer then the life boat is a moot point since that wasn't an option for 2/3 of the passengers.

If all you had was a dining table to cling on to you'd still die, either of exhaustion or from the freezing water.

Staying out of the water is the point of the raft...

 

[TheSchizoid]

If all you had was a dining table to cling on to you'd still die, either of exhaustion or from the freezing water.

Staying out of the water is the point of the raft...

True, but how do you 100% stay out of the water? Especially trying to avoid being sucked under by the sinking ship? The water is all churned up and probably splashing heavily over the sides of any makeshift raft you can come up with.

 

[paintman]

If all you had was a dining table to cling on to you'd still die, either of exhaustion or from the freezing water.

Staying out of the water is the point of the raft...

True, but how do you 100% stay out of the water? Especially trying to avoid being sucked under by the sinking ship?

paddle off the ship when the bow dips... NOT when it goes down like in the movie?

 

[emeraldrafael]

I'm prety sure a bathtub wont float. They're rather heavy, and to do this water tight seal thing you're talking about is going to take a lot more planning and material then the people on board are thinking. Its not like everyone just calmly strolled off the boat, they were in panic and I doubt any of us would be any less panicked.

you'll still get wet on a table/door/etc. Ever sat on one in water? the wieght of you pushes it down, and water will eventually go over hte side and when that happens, its going ot start going under. besides, how are you going ot paddle to somewhere without getting wet? Too much movement will cause it to slip, so the best you can do is half float in the water and cling, pusbhing it yourself, rather then try and row.

That shipping crate wont be water tight, and again, the question comes up of when you put weight on it, how long it will take for it to push under the water and how you're going to actually get it to move.

So honestly, common sense didnt really fail. People werent trained to survive, and thwere's not a lot that could have saved them except the boat.

 

[The Serpent]

paddle off the ship when the bow dips... NOT when it goes down like in the movie?

I don't think so. Wouldn't that require you to think "The bow is going to dip, that will be our only chance!" when you don't actually know that, and then leave the boat before it sinks on something that might not float?

I don't think anyone could do that exept fictional characters like John McClane and Nathan Drake.

 

[paintman]

Titanic was a floating city. I'm looking at this with a boy scouts perspective (which was only 5 years old when titanic sank). But my scout friends have built sturdy rafts out of ropes and boards in about 3 hours. And that was without the rush of a boat sinking around them.

also keep in mind the one of the reasons they hit the ice berg was because the seas were the calmest the crew had ever seen. So waves may not have been that bad.

 

[Lukeje]

How would you get such Macguiver-esque rafts down to the water? It's rather a long drop. The actual lifeboats had specific pulley systems for that purpose.

hundreds of feet of quality rope on board.
Hatches built into almost every ship at right about 10 feet above the water line.
Worst case scenario the boat was sinking, so the water would come up to me pretty quickly.

And how many people were there (that weren't all ready involved in getting the actual lifeboats off, or trying to keep the boat from sinking for just a little longer) were skilled enough to construct a proper hoist? Especially among all the panic?

 

[Pyramid Head]

Considering most of those rafts aren't stable and that a lot of people were killed by the fall when the Titanic split in half, not to mention the fact that in the end it wouldn't make a difference since people would still get wet and die of hypothermia, you may be a little unrealistic about it.
Besides, think of the people on the lower decks who were trapped in the boat once the flooding started. As far as i'm concerned the rich pricks deserved to drown and freeze simultaneously. Besides, calling a hard to maneuver ship a ship God couldn't sink was like calling a big pile of dry hay the hay God couldn't incinerate.

 

[William MacKay]

by that logic, you could jump onto the iceberg and hold on.
lets just say that you were planning on visiting family in alaska and going hiking so you have winter clothes and ice picks. its feasible and would work... but the fall would break wooden tables, bathtubs would go under, the doors would sink... you'd probably have a higher chance of survival if you shot yourself.

 

[paintman]

How would you get such Macguiver-esque rafts down to the water? It's rather a long drop. The actual lifeboats had specific pulley systems for that purpose.

hundreds of feet of quality rope on board.
Hatches built into almost every ship at right about 10 feet above the water line.
Worst case scenario the boat was sinking, so the water would come up to me pretty quickly.

And how many people were there (that weren't all ready involved in getting the actual lifeboats off, or trying to keep the boat from sinking for just a little longer) were skilled enough to construct a proper hoist? Especially among all the panic?

Ship sank... water level... the bow dropped below it... am I missing something? what is this insistence on throwing the raft over board about?

 

[TerribleAssassin]

Surely tables would be too heavy? And if they're too heavy, the rest of the items mentioned would be...