Titanic. The day common sense failed everyone

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PureChaos

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Aug 16, 2008
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wouldn't a bath sink? most wooden items, sure, they could have been used but most people probably just focused on the boats...that had already left...in a way i see you point but in another way you probably wouldn't be thinking like that if you were in their situation
 

Lukeje

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paintman said:
Lukeje said:
paintman said:
Lukeje said:
How would you get such Macguiver-esque rafts down to the water? It's rather a long drop. The actual lifeboats had specific pulley systems for that purpose.
hundreds of feet of quality rope on board.
Hatches built into almost every ship at right about 10 feet above the water line.
Worst case scenario the boat was sinking, so the water would come up to me pretty quickly.
And how many people were there (that weren't all ready involved in getting the actual lifeboats off, or trying to keep the boat from sinking for just a little longer) were skilled enough to construct a proper hoist? Especially among all the panic?
Ship sank... water level... the bow dropped below it... am I missing something? what is this insistence on throwing the raft over board about?
That wasn't the argument you made. And as regards the bow, how would you know it was going to happen? The ship was supposed to be unsinkable, and as such there would have been no information on exactly how it would sink in this situation.
 

TitanAtlas

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The bath tubs were nailed to the ground, it would be hard to bring a dining table out considering the ship was sinking, and it was too much weight to carry, the shipping crates were in the areas that flooded quickly and even tough it would be impossible for people to drag them out, considering theyre not light-weighted, doors would be hard considering theyre stuck in the walls... you would need an axe or something, and i dont thing theyre handing out axes to every single person... benches would be a good idea.... oh i forgot bolted to the wooden floor... yeah...

You should take in consideration that the ship itself sinking didnt took more than 29 minutes, and it had hundreds and hundreds of people in it... the only chances were those who reached the rescue boats, and those who survived the ship and were able to find some destructed floor or something to float on...

i find it incredible you and youre friends didnt considered the options fully before sharing them...
 

paintman

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Apr 30, 2011
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bathtubs where made of thin cast iron. but they had a large volume. they could likely hold a lot before taking on water.

If by 29 minutes you mean 3 hours then yeah it took that long for it to sink.
 

Evil Top Hat

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paintman said:
Staying out of the water is the point of the raft...
If you had to stay on top of the raft at all times instead of clinging to it you'd be using a hell of a lot more energy, and would almost certainly die from exhaustion.
 

Infernai

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Macgyvercas said:
You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night.
WAIT! Wait wait wait wait...28 degree's!? That's fucking warm! That's...like a typical spring/summer weather where i live. Unless of course you meant it being in the negative numbers then, yeah ok THEN it would be fucking cold.
 

SirDerick

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Infernai said:
Macgyvercas said:
You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night.
WAIT! Wait wait wait wait...28 degree's!? That's fucking warm! That's...like a typical spring/summer weather where i live. Unless of course you meant it being in the negative numbers then, yeah ok THEN it would be fucking cold.
I think he means Fahrenheit, which would make it -2 Celsius.
 

Scabadus

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Plenty of things float, but I'm having trouble thinking of things able to keep somebody (almost) totally out of the water. Wooden objects such as tables and doors sure and a mattres might work if you ripped it open and stuffed ballast inside, on the other hand I'm not sure what you could use for said ballast. Empty jars for soup or the like might work if you screwed the lid on tightly, if they survived the fall into the water there's plenty of air in there.

Barrels lashed together might work too; if they were used to store liquids they'de be watertight, water might seep between them and give everyone wet legs but hey if you're already jumped off the ship anyway, you're probably going to be soaked through to begin with, at least this way your top half can dry off.

Worth a mention too, mythbusters did the whole undercurrent thing with a ship going down; obviously they couldn't afford to sink a luxry cruise liner but the current isn't as powerful as many people expect. I good raft should be able to stay afloat against it.
 

JochemDude

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Hey look a lifeboat, what will I do will I try to squeeze into it or will I go back into the boat and find a table so I can get left behind on a table and/or die of hypothermia.
 

paintman

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Apr 30, 2011
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keep in mind this doesn't need to be a boat to paddle to New York with.

At 3:00am a life boat returned to the sink sight to pick up anyone still alive. Remember 27 people survived on a capsized life boat.

At 4:10 the carpathia picks up first life boat

At 8:50 the last person is boarded from a life boat onto the carpathia.

At longest the raft would have to sustain for 8 hours. But more likely it would only need to last 30 minutes - hour
 

metal mustache

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surviving on the ocean isnt as easy as finding some debris. the cold waves could easily pull you off your shit raft, and it would be difficult to catch it again. Also how is a bath tub a good raft? it could easily fill with water from the waves or the drain and sink!
 

Alphavillain

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Basing viable escape plans on a film is never the best way to assess the chances of surviving a real-life disaster.
 

paintman

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metal mustache said:
surviving on the ocean isnt as easy as finding some debris. the cold waves could easily pull you off your shit raft, and it would be difficult to catch it again. Also how is a bath tub a good raft? it could easily fill with water from the waves or the drain and sink!
again... the seas where the calmest lightoller had ever seen the night of the sinking
 

Hristo Tzonkov

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Apr 5, 2010
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paintman said:
This is a discussion between a few friends and me that I thought was good enough to bring to the forums. We are currently watching Titanic, and are remembering how Rose only survives due to being on the door.

That said isn't it common sense? I know everyone panicked but you would figure a few people might have gone "look at all this stuff on the boat. I bet can make a raft."

So my friends and I started making a list of rafts or raft materials that could have saved hundreds. So far we have:

Bath Tubs
Dining Room Tables
Huge shipping crates (contested since cargo area first part to sink)
Doors (as in the movie)
Benches

So our questions to you is what haven't we thought of? And what do you think of this whole raft plan?
I think you're underestimating the power of panic.Ship is sinking,there's lifeboats.My first reaction and I bet any sane person on earth would run to the proper life saving equipment.I wouldn't even for a moment think about door/table surfing in this situation.Not to mention it's pretty impossible because while they do float you'll likely still be in the water aka death.

The day common sense really failed was when Titanic was being built.With that much money invested they didn't have enough lifeboats to fit the capacity of the ship.That's the real fail.

There's also the movie...that's majorly fail.
 

Macgyvercas

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Feb 19, 2009
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Infernai said:
Macgyvercas said:
You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night.
WAIT! Wait wait wait wait...28 degree's!? That's fucking warm! That's...like a typical spring/summer weather where i live. Unless of course you meant it being in the negative numbers then, yeah ok THEN it would be fucking cold.
Fine, -2 centigrade.

I live in America, so I apologize for the confusion.

Hristo Tzonkov said:
The day common sense really failed was when Titanic was being built.With that much money invested they didn't have enough lifeboats to fit the capacity of the ship.That's the real fail.
Believe it or not, the ship's original plans called for 64 lifeboats, later reduced to 32, then finally 16 because that was all regulations at the time (which had not been updated with the size of ships) required. 4 collapsible boats were added to bring the total to 20. If all the boats had been filled to capacity, there would only be room for about half of the estimated 2200 people on board.
 

archvile93

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Macgyvercas said:
You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night. Even assuming they could get a raft like object, they would have had to hit the water first, unless they were very lucky, and due to the temperature of the water and the night air, hypothermia would have got them. From the time the Titanic sank at around 2:20 AM to the time the Carpathia arrived at around 4:00AM anyone in the water would have been dead. The only exception was Chief Baker Charles Joughin who had gone to his cabin twice to have a glass of brandy. Other than him, the only survivors were in lifeboats.
That's pretty impressive considering the brandy would've made him more likely to die. Alcohol brings blood and heat to the skin, diverting it from vital organs. It'll make you feel warmer, but actually makes you colder where it really matters.

OT: Other than finding an actual life raft, there really wasn't much hope for survival. They really shouldn't of let the whole "unsinkable ship" thing go to their heads and take unecessary risks. It also would have helped to prepare for such an event. The ship was originally designed to hold more life rafts, but they were removed because someone important thought it made the ship look kind of crowded.
 

Macgyvercas

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archvile93 said:
Macgyvercas said:
You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night. Even assuming they could get a raft like object, they would have had to hit the water first, unless they were very lucky, and due to the temperature of the water and the night air, hypothermia would have got them. From the time the Titanic sank at around 2:20 AM to the time the Carpathia arrived at around 4:00AM anyone in the water would have been dead. The only exception was Chief Baker Charles Joughin who had gone to his cabin twice to have a glass of brandy. Other than him, the only survivors were in lifeboats.
That's pretty impressive considering the brandy would've made him more likely to die. Alcohol brings blood and heat to the skin, diverting it from vital organs. It'll make you feel warmer, but actually makes you colder where it really matters.

OT: Other than finding an actual life raft, there really wasn't much hope for survival. They really shouldn't of let the whole "unsinkable ship" thing go to their heads and take unecessary risks. It also would have helped to prepare for such an event. The ship was originally designed to hold more life rafts, but they more removed because someone important thought it made the ship look kind of crowded.
I don't really get how he survived either. But he did, somehow. He also rode the stern down as it was sinking. You know that suction whirlpool they talk about in the moive? Bullshit. The stern section sank so slowly, that Joughin stepped off without even getting his hair wet. He later described it as riding an elevator.

As for the whole "unsinkable" bit, it was never advertised that way, but was more something the rich passengers thought. The Titanic was designed so that it could stay afloat with the first four watertight compartments flooded or any two of the middle compartments. Since it was thought that even the worst collision would damage no more than two compartments, they assumed the ship was "virtually unsinkable". However, as you know, the iceberg let water into the first five compartments (not by slashing the plates but by bending them and popping the rivet heads). Also, the bulkheads only went up to D deck, so the water spilled over the top of them and into the next compartment.

After the Titanic sank, the workers of her sister ship, the Olympic, went on strike until the number of lifeboats was increased, the ships double bottom was raised into a double skin, and the bulkheads were raised to B deck.

Sorry, I started yammering there. I used to be really big into the Titanic.