Titanic. The day common sense failed everyone

[godofallu]

Almost all of the things listed for use as rafts wouldn't even float!

Plus you get a raft, 25 freezing people shove you off it and try to kill you for it.

 

[Jedoro]

People could've just brought their "rafts" up to the deck, then waited til the Titanic was sunk enough to where they could just step into the water. No need to drop off the edge.

But, common sense failed because people tend to lose their shit when things are going wrong, i.e. a fucking boat's sinking into cold-as-balls water.

 

[lacktheknack]

Water forces would drag your raft under with the ship. That's why so many people who could swim died (doubled with the freaking cold water, obviously).

So, no. It wasn't that easy.

 

[LikeDustInTheWind]

Aww I thought this would be about all the ridiculous mistakes made during the real crash of the Titanic. If they had ran straight into the iceberg they probably would have survived but they tried to turn. Slight thread derailment FTW!

 

[Krion_Vark]

If all you had was a dining table to cling on to you'd still die, either of exhaustion or from the freezing water.

Staying out of the water is the point of the raft...

True, but how do you 100% stay out of the water? Especially trying to avoid being sucked under by the sinking ship?

paddle off the ship when the bow dips... NOT when it goes down like in the movie?

Its still sinking and pulling water in and having it move about anywhere within a 40 foot range of the ship would be sucked under as the water is displaced then replaced inside the ship as it sinks. Her floating on top of a door actually wouldn't happen because of what I mentioned. Hell everyone that hits the water is dead in a matter of minutes if not seconds anyway. The body tenses up and sinks due to the cold then you die by drowning. Hell of a way to go if you ask me

 

[paintman]

You're out of luck with cast iron. It isn't a very strong metal, because the act of casting weakens the molecular bonds of the material. I've been able bend a cast iron poker with just my bare hands and a slight application of leverage, and I'm not even that athletic. So what do you think is going to happen when you try to lever up 50 pounds of wood (that's held on with dozen of iron nails), with 100+ pounds of human body? There's a reason why most working tools are steel, and that is reason is because it's simply more resistant to stress.

As for those ropes you mentioned, wouldn't it be more useful to, oh I don't know, use them for hauling down the life boats? And since the only other ropes that a ship usually has are mooring ropes, which are as thick as a person's arm and therefore hard as hell to bend, you don't have really have many options for lashings.

Though this is all rendered moot by the fact that there simply wasn't enough time to gather all the hundreds people spread out on a ship the size of a city block, organize these terrified individuals into effective work teams, gather the thousands of pounds of material need to ferry them, build the rafts (did I mention that most of these people don't know how to?) waterproof/seal them (or they leak and become floating frozen caskets) and somehow get them and their passengers down to the water without breaking either.

Face it man, it simply could not have been done. If they'd had enough time to do all that, they would have had enough time to get onto all the lifeboats (of which the Titanic had more than enough of to carry all the passengers).

First its historical fact that the titanic did not have enough boats for everyone because it was designed to stay afloat for hours before sinking.

Second its also well known the Lt. Murdoch was one of the only officers filling boats to to capacity only about 700 passengers to about 1100 passengers worth of boats.

Finally cast iron makes a terrible prying object. but took an iron poker and broke a pressure treated board with almost no effort. So i think most people could handle a 1912 bench or door.

You can go on thinking their was nothing that could be done. I'll go on hoping tubs are boats. If you go down with the boat and I go down with my tub, was i really any worse off?

 

[captainwalrus]

Common sense? Err..No? Or maybe I just don't have common sense. My first reaction to the ship crashing into an iceberg wouldn't be to build a raft, especially since I don't know how to build a raft. I don't think I'm making a totally erroneous generalization when I say that most people on the Titanic didn't know how to build rafts, either.

I guess you could have gone and pried off a door, but that would require you to either jump off the boat prematurely, risking possible injury and/or making it more likely for you to succumb to hypothermia, or somehow lug an unwieldy door around for an inordinate amount of time on a really tilty ship and not somehow fuck up.

Your best bet would be to pry off as much of the Titanic's doors as possible and throw them all in the water before it sank, so you'd have a variety of floating debris to swim to/climb up on when you decide to finally take the plunge. That way, there's less of a chance someone will jack your door and you wouldn't have to carry a fucking door around everywhere on a sinking ship. So I guess that's what I'm going to do if I'm ever on a ship and it goes and hits an iceberg and sinks. I'm gonna pry off all the doors and chuck them in the water.

 

[The Heik]

You're out of luck with cast iron. It isn't a very strong metal, because the act of casting weakens the molecular bonds of the material. I've been able bend a cast iron poker with just my bare hands and a slight application of leverage, and I'm not even that athletic. So what do you think is going to happen when you try to lever up 50 pounds of wood (that's held on with dozen of iron nails), with 100+ pounds of human body? There's a reason why most working tools are steel, and that is reason is because it's simply more resistant to stress.

As for those ropes you mentioned, wouldn't it be more useful to, oh I don't know, use them for hauling down the life boats? And since the only other ropes that a ship usually has are mooring ropes, which are as thick as a person's arm and therefore hard as hell to bend, you don't have really have many options for lashings.

Though this is all rendered moot by the fact that there simply wasn't enough time to gather all the hundreds people spread out on a ship the size of a city block, organize these terrified individuals into effective work teams, gather the thousands of pounds of material need to ferry them, build the rafts (did I mention that most of these people don't know how to?) waterproof/seal them (or they leak and become floating frozen caskets) and somehow get them and their passengers down to the water without breaking either.

Face it man, it simply could not have been done. If they'd had enough time to do all that, they would have had enough time to get onto all the lifeboats (of which the Titanic had more than enough of to carry all the passengers).

First its historical fact that the titanic did not have enough boats for everyone because it was designed to stay afloat for hours before sinking.

Second its also well known the Lt. Murdoch was one of the only officers filling boats to to capacity only about 700 passengers to about 1100 passengers worth of boats.

Finally cast iron makes a terrible prying object. but took an iron poker and broke a pressure treated board with almost no effort. So i think most people could handle a 1912 bench or door.

You can go on thinking their was nothing that could be done. I'll go on hoping tubs are boats. If you go down with the boat and I go down with my tub, was i really any worse off?

My mistake on the boats to passenger ratio (guess that documentary I saw on history channel a couple years back was incorrect).

On another note however, I would like to point out that if you knew that cast iron was a terrible tool material, then why did you mention it in post #59 as the type of metal tool the passengers would use to get their materials?

And a bathtub? Really?

First of all, it's bolted to the floor (else it would slide all of the place on a ship at sea, and boy wouldn't that be an interesting wash), so you can't move it.

Second of all, your average vintage iron tub can weigh up to 300 pounds, so even if you somehow manage to rip it from the floor, dragging it onto the deck is going to herniate quite a few organs (and I doubt that other passengers would help you drag it if you were the only one to leave on it, since it's only a 1 person fit)

Third, Bathtubs were not meant to be used as boats. They have a high centre of gravity and terrible balance, and once in the water your weight, combined with the weight of the tub, would either sink it or tip it withing seconds. Also since it's metal, even if you were able to find a way to make it float, it would suck away all your heat into the Atlantic, so it would have the same effect as jumping in water, only a little bit longer.

Now you may think I'm being a pessimist. I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that in this past situation there was nothing the people who got stuck on the Titanic could do. Moreso, you weren't on this ill fated ship, so speculating on how you could survive the situation when it never happened to you (and most likely will never happen to you) is simply silly.

All we can do about this tragedy is learn what they did wrong in the situation. I certainly did. I learned to take the plane, because the plane has a very restricted amount of passengers, so all the rafts and other life-preserving materials on-board will never be exceeded by the need for them. Also, it highly unlikely to run into an iceberg at 35,000 feet.

 

[RicoADF]

*snip*
You should take in consideration that the ship itself sinking didnt took more than 29 minutes, and it had hundreds and hundreds of people in it... *snip*

It took 2.5-3hrs to sink, plenty of time. However the boads weren't launched until 2hrs after the ship hit the iceberg. Those 2 hours could have been better used.

 

[Mechanix]

Not that much stuff floats first of all. A bathtub for instance would sink.

Also, people were in the water at night in the middle of the Atlantic ocean. It's hard to fathom just how cold the water was, you couldn't really do much.

 

[RicoADF]

This is a discussion between a few friends and me that I thought was good enough to bring to the forums. We are currently watching Titanic, and are remembering how Rose only survives due to being on the door.

That said isn't it common sense? I know everyone panicked but you would figure a few people might have gone "look at all this stuff on the boat. I bet can make a raft."

So my friends and I started making a list of rafts or raft materials that could have saved hundreds. So far we have:

Bath Tubs
Dining Room Tables
Huge shipping crates (contested since cargo area first part to sink)
Doors (as in the movie)
Benches

So our questions to you is what haven't we thought of? And what do you think of this whole raft plan?

I think you're underestimating the power of panic.Ship is sinking,there's lifeboats.My first reaction and I bet any sane person on earth would run to the proper life saving equipment.I wouldn't even for a moment think about door/table surfing in this situation.Not to mention it's pretty impossible because while they do float you'll likely still be in the water aka death.

The day common sense really failed was when Titanic was being built.With that much money invested they didn't have enough lifeboats to fit the capacity of the ship.That's the real fail.

There's also the movie...that's majorly fail.

The ship was designed with enough lifeboats onboard, however it was decided by the company to remove ones that werent required by law to give a better view for the passengers (remember at the time no huge cruise ship had sunk yet, and they considered the bulkheads would make the ship sinking practically impossible, white star never said unsinkable). They did however grudgedly add 4 life rafts back on after the designers pushed for it. So people on the 4 life rafts have the designers to thank for their lives

 

[Canadamus Prime]

Assuming hauling any of those items around would even be feasible, I imagine nobody is actually going to think of that while in a state of panic, and considering the situation, EVERYONE is going to be in a state of panic. And when in a state of panic rational thinking does not apply.

 

[RicoADF]

You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night. Even assuming they could get a raft like object, they would have had to hit the water first, unless they were very lucky, and due to the temperature of the water and the night air, hypothermia would have got them. From the time the Titanic sank at around 2:20 AM to the time the Carpathia arrived at around 4:00AM anyone in the water would have been dead. The only exception was Chief Baker Charles Joughin who had gone to his cabin twice to have a glass of brandy. Other than him, the only survivors were in lifeboats.

That's pretty impressive considering the brandy would've made him more likely to die. Alcohol brings blood and heat to the skin, diverting it from vital organs. It'll make you feel warmer, but actually makes you colder where it really matters.

OT: Other than finding an actual life raft, there really wasn't much hope for survival. They really shouldn't of let the whole "unsinkable ship" thing go to their heads and take unecessary risks. It also would have helped to prepare for such an event. The ship was originally designed to hold more life rafts, but they more removed because someone important thought it made the ship look kind of crowded.

I don't really get how he survived either. But he did, somehow. He also rode the stern down as it was sinking. You know that suction whirlpool they talk about in the moive? Bullshit. The stern section sank so slowly, that Joughin stepped off without even getting his hair wet. He later described it as riding an elevator.

As for the whole "unsinkable" bit, it was never advertised that way, but was more something the rich passengers thought. The Titanic was designed so that it could stay afloat with the first four watertight compartments flooded or any two of the middle compartments. Since it was thought that even the worst collision would damage no more than two compartments, they assumed the ship was "virtually unsinkable". However, as you know, the iceberg let water into the first five compartments (not by slashing the plates but by bending them and popping the rivet heads). Also, the bulkheads only went up to D deck, so the water spilled over the top of them and into the next compartment.

After the Titanic sank, the workers of her sister ship, the Olympic, went on strike until the number of lifeboats was increased, the ships double bottom was raised into a double skin, and the bulkheads were raised to B deck.

Sorry, I started yammering there. I used to be really big into the Titanic.

Work on the Britannic also halted until the inquirys were done, then she and the Olympic were updated (altho the Olympic received the full load of lifeboats she was designed for before the inquiry was complete.

You forget, the water was 28 degrees that night. Even assuming they could get a raft like object, they would have had to hit the water first, unless they were very lucky, and due to the temperature of the water and the night air, hypothermia would have got them. From the time the Titanic sank at around 2:20 AM to the time the Carpathia arrived at around 4:00AM anyone in the water would have been dead. The only exception was Chief Baker Charles Joughin who had gone to his cabin twice to have a glass of brandy. Other than him, the only survivors were in lifeboats.

That's pretty impressive considering the brandy would've made him more likely to die. Alcohol brings blood and heat to the skin, diverting it from vital organs. It'll make you feel warmer, but actually makes you colder where it really matters.

OT: Other than finding an actual life raft, there really wasn't much hope for survival. They really shouldn't of let the whole "unsinkable ship" thing go to their heads and take unecessary risks. It also would have helped to prepare for such an event. The ship was originally designed to hold more life rafts, but they were removed because someone important thought it made the ship look kind of crowded.

More impressive the guy threw deck chairs into the water for swimmers to hold on to and when the ship did sink, he held on to one of the collapsible boats. Damn you Spice & Wolf, you got me interested and I googled the man.

Yeah, sorry about that. Titanic was one of my obessions as a kid, so I see a thread on it, and I sort go into autopilot.

join the club

 

[fulano]

This is a discussion between a few friends and me that I thought was good enough to bring to the forums. We are currently watching Titanic, and are remembering how Rose only survives due to being on the door.

That said isn't it common sense? I know everyone panicked but you would figure a few people might have gone "look at all this stuff on the boat. I bet can make a raft."

So my friends and I started making a list of rafts or raft materials that could have saved hundreds. So far we have:

Bath Tubs
Dining Room Tables
Huge shipping crates (contested since cargo area first part to sink)
Doors (as in the movie)
Benches

So our questions to you is what haven't we thought of? And what do you think of this whole raft plan?

I dunno whether I should thank you or what...

Why? Dude, I've been hearing that shit for years from my dad. Yes, years. I thought "Well, that's fucking dumb," but my dad repeats that to me everytime that movie gets mentioned down to the whole list thing. I'm sure he'll be delighted when I tell him that someone somewhere else had the exact same though he had about the exact same thing. That'll amuse him.

Cheers, and take care.

 

[mjc0961]

I don't think anyone could do that exept fictional characters like John McClane and Nathan Drake.

McClane could do it. Drake would fail and fall in the cold water and be there for hours, but he'd survive it anyway because he's half Superman. That's what Uncharted 2 taught me anyway.

 

[RicoADF]

*snip*

All we can do about this tragedy is learn what they did wrong in the situation. I certainly did. I learned to take the plane, because the plane has a very restricted amount of passengers, so all the rafts and other life-preserving materials on-board will never be exceeded by the need for them. Also, it highly unlikely to run into an iceberg at 35,000 feet.

Neah, instead you'll nose dive into the water at near mach 1 and cease to exist on impact...... I think I'll take the boat

 

[SillyBear]

snip

I was going to say how silly and downright disrespectful you're being to tens of hundreds who died that night and how hindsight in situations like this only ever comes across as arrogant, but I found this instead:

It doesn't matter if you have a raft, as explained by Jack. The real dangers were the water and the undercurrent from the sinking boat. Have you ever jumped into sub 40 degree (Fahrenheit) water? It's very disorienting. They also had no idea how long the boat would stay up, so going back into the boat to look for something to float on could've just as easily sealed your death by sinking with the ship.

The raft plan is rather silly, there would've been no way to navigate them. And having been dunked in freezing water (and thus covered in wet clothes) and exposed to winter night's air, they would've succumbed to hypothermia anyway. Remember, only one rescue boat even went back for survivors, so even if you had a bunch of people who lived, they would've been adrift at sea and died anyway.

The common sense fail was in their inadequate preparation for such an event.