To all the Americans

[historybuff]

Don't assume that Obama doesn't care about Britain. That's dumb. He wasn't president when that book came out.

I see Britain as a cousin, a father-country. England founded America and gave us our backbone. So, as an entity, I have a great amount of respect for England. The country accomplished a great deal--yes, they were an Empire and acted as such--but they accomplished amazing things. England has stood by us when we were popular (in the WW era) and when we were very unpopular (right now) and I really love you guys for that.

However, it's difficult, at times, to discuss anything to do with war, history or Europe with individuals. Because they all seem to assume that Americans are lazy and ignorant and don't care about anyone but themselves.

And that is so so so far from the truth. It's not even funny. I would love to learn more about what life is like in other places--but I still hesitate to tell people where I'm from because I know they're going to judge me right away...without even getting to know me first. And that's sad. It sucks because I want to know more and I want to see and learn more.

So, i really do respect England. I really love it--I have a couple friends from England online and they are very cool...

But the rest, that judge me and demand to know why I haven't been to Europe--as they seem to forget it's very expensive for the lower-middle class to travel abroad and across an entire ocean--and assume I just only care about America...that's sort of a turn off. It's frustrating.

Yes, I might ask a dumb question sometime---like, do you use 'cookies' or 'biscuits' and when do you use them and what's the difference? What's bonfire night? How is your coin system divided up? The Queen is on your money, right? Do they print new coins/bills when the head of the royal family dies? Does it really rain every day?

But I ask those things because I want to know more--not because I'm stupid.

It'd also be nice if, when I talked to someone from England, they didn't act like I made whatever political decision is pissing them off.

I can't explain everything about our politics. I hated George Bush, Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin just like the rest of the world. Bush lied to us just like he lied to all of you. And it'd be nice if people would remember that sometimes.


So I guess what I mean is that I love England...but man, you frustrate me sometimes.

 

[VaultBoy]

I believe that Britain is one of are most important Allies and are a benefit to us politically.

 

[Skreeee]

His wife is running around with an axe to grind -snip-

What axe? You make it sound like she should stay at the White House and play Ms. Susie Homemaker.

Actually I feel that is exactly what she should be doing, though perhaps not as a home maker. In general she should be staying out of politics entirely as she was not elected, and the official roles first ladies are taking smack of Nepotism . If a president's wife is going to be allowed to effectively wield a portion of the power as directly as her or Mrs. Clinton did then instead of running soley on the President both of them need to be presented together and the first lady has to be seriously subjected to as much scrutiny as the president.

In Mrs Obama's case she was more or less outed as a racist due to some of her writings back in college, but it was glossed over on the excuse that "she's not running for President, her husband is". Plus while it's been relegated to tabloid news the fact that she definatly has a "list" of people and issues she wants to directly deal with has been becoming increasingly public knowlege as she comes more onto the stage.

I frankly don't care if a first lady has a career or whatever, but in general they need to be kept divorced from poilitics as much as possible, limited from being given cabinet positions or direct political appointments (due to the possibility of neoptism) or other things. The First Lady is not a govermental position.

When you have to start putting this much thought into the agenda of The First Lady there is an issue.

Yes, I know many are going to disagree (especially feminists) but again as I pointed out, Mrs. Obama was looked at but no where near under the microscope that should have been there if she was going to effectively run the country as a team with her husband which seems to be becoming the case.

>>>----Therumancer--->

By that logic, Laura Bush should have been banned from starting any initiatives against illiteracy or improving the status os health and education in our country, as well as the ability to represent the United States during foreign trips, particularly those where she focused on HIV/malaria awareness. She also should have been denied the opportunity to make a speech on her husband's behalf at the 2000 Republican National Convention, as she was getting directly involved in her husband's 'business'.

Obviously First Lady is not a position of any actual power, but to say that these women must stay at home and look pretty is a piggish idea at best, and outright hateful and chauvanistic at the worst. How wrong is it that they have issues that they are interested in? These women were/are not out writing new laws and trying to force their husbands to get Congress to pass them, rather trying to raise awareness for things that need fixing.

Besides, it's expected of the First Lady to have her own interests to pursue, as well as help her husband to achieve office. Just because you don't like the party currently in power doesn't mean that the wife of the President is trying to weasel her way into his seat without anyone noticing.

I'm not sure how much more to argue, as you sound like you're just pissed that Obama won more than anything, and you'll find anything to hate about democrats (if the fact that you conveniently forgot to mention any Republican First Ladies is any indication).

I think I'll just hop out of the debate now before it takes over the thread, as this is not the OT and I feel like it would be detracting from that.

 

[hagaya]

I see Britain (all countries in reality) as just another place in the world. We run things differently, we have different cultures, we have different government plans, and we also have different ideals in certain respects. People are people and there's not too much to say. I give Britain two thumbs up.

 

[messy]

SNIP

Britain is one of a few Countries that not very long ago had an empire spanning the world. Britain is reknown for its strong history, develop democratic system and reserved nature in the face of adversity; the stiff upper lip.

Barack Obama was educated in the United States where the system leans heavily to an Americentric view of the world. This quite easily sums up why Britain would not play a huge role in his work.

However, the idea that you can make assumptions about the US society's and Government's point of view of Britain based on one book is nonsense. I personally can't believe the man has the audacity to write a book with the title; The Audacity of Hope.

.

I wasn't basing my whole view on it, but he's a fairly important individual so it got me thinking as I always took it as fact about Britain and America(and judging by the majority of this post's responses the majority of those who reply see it similarly) "special relationship"

 

[Therumancer]

His wife is running around with an axe to grind -snip-

What axe? You make it sound like she should stay at the White House and play Ms. Susie Homemaker.

Actually I feel that is exactly what she should be doing, though perhaps not as a home maker. In general she should be staying out of politics entirely as she was not elected, and the official roles first ladies are taking smack of Nepotism . If a president's wife is going to be allowed to effectively wield a portion of the power as directly as her or Mrs. Clinton did then instead of running soley on the President both of them need to be presented together and the first lady has to be seriously subjected to as much scrutiny as the president.

In Mrs Obama's case she was more or less outed as a racist due to some of her writings back in college, but it was glossed over on the excuse that "she's not running for President, her husband is". Plus while it's been relegated to tabloid news the fact that she definatly has a "list" of people and issues she wants to directly deal with has been becoming increasingly public knowlege as she comes more onto the stage.

I frankly don't care if a first lady has a career or whatever, but in general they need to be kept divorced from poilitics as much as possible, limited from being given cabinet positions or direct political appointments (due to the possibility of neoptism) or other things. The First Lady is not a govermental position.

When you have to start putting this much thought into the agenda of The First Lady there is an issue.

Yes, I know many are going to disagree (especially feminists) but again as I pointed out, Mrs. Obama was looked at but no where near under the microscope that should have been there if she was going to effectively run the country as a team with her husband which seems to be becoming the case.

>>>----Therumancer--->

By that logic, Laura Bush should have been banned from starting any initiatives against illiteracy or improving the status os health and education in our country, as well as the ability to represent the United States during foreign trips, particularly those where she focused on HIV/malaria awareness. She also should have been denied the opportunity to make a speech on her husband's behalf at the 2000 Republican National Convention, as she was getting directly involved in her husband's 'business'.

Obviously First Lady is not a position of any actual power, but to say that these women must stay at home and look pretty is a piggish idea at best, and outright hateful and chauvanistic at the worst. How wrong is it that they have issues that they are interested in? These women were/are not out writing new laws and trying to force their husbands to get Congress to pass them, rather trying to raise awareness for things that need fixing.

Besides, it's expected of the First Lady to have her own interests to pursue, as well as help her husband to achieve office. Just because you don't like the party currently in power doesn't mean that the wife of the President is trying to weasel her way into his seat without anyone noticing.

I'm not sure how much more to argue, as you sound like you're just pissed that Obama won more than anything, and you'll find anything to hate about democrats (if the fact that you conveniently forgot to mention any Republican First Ladies is any indication).

I think I'll just hop out of the debate now before it takes over the thread, as this is not the OT and I feel like it would be detracting from that.

True, this probably isn't the time and place.

All I will say is that while we will probably ultimatly have to agree to disagree, that I am nothing if not faire. My attitude applies equally to people like Laura Bush. I think Hillary Clinton started a bad precedent. While not the first first lady involved in politics she definatly took it to a disturbing new level which has continued.

Basically, I feel that if we're going to let this kind of thing happen then the first lady has to be added to the Ballot as part of the package with both the President and Vice President and subjected to the same level of scrutiny. She has to either be carefully kept out of the equasion as much as possible, or handled with the same standards as anyone else who is going to be able to wield that much power in our system.

I use Mrs. Obama as an example simply because she's current, and in part because during Obama's election some disturbing things came out about her, but were never followed through on because "she isn't the one running for President". However with how she's been acting people should have been looking into those things as much as they were details about Obama and Mccain. I think we're paying a price for that oversight.

>>>----Therumancer--->

 

[Nmil-ek]

Yes, I might ask a dumb question sometime---like, do you use 'cookies' or 'biscuits' and when do you use them and what's the difference? What's bonfire night? How is your coin system divided up? The Queen is on your money, right? Do they print new coins/bills when the head of the royal family dies? Does it really rain every day?

Biscuits for everything normaly, bonfire night is Guy Fawkes night basicly a remmeberence day for his attempt to blow up Parliment originaly a celebration of the English king avoiding assasination I beleive every 5th november, a large bonfire is lit and fireworks sometimes an effigy (youll never see that at a public display mind) thats about it. Uhh not sure hounestly, dont think I have ever seen a coin with princess dianas head atleast its currently Elizabeth II still. Frequently we get ALOT of annual rainfall and the winters are fucking freezing gets worse the further north you go due to the breeze from the atlantic/north seas.

And theres more to the UK than bloody england >_>

 

[Ghostkai]

Me likey the yanks too, /cuddle.

 

[Nerf Ninja]

Lately I'm beginning to think that Britain should just apply to become part of America. It would solve a lot of our problems plus it would mean I get to buy me a gun

 

[fearofthemind]

I wish I was British.

 

[HT_Black]

The same as I see anyhwere else-- except, you guys brought us The Doctor and Martha Jones (woo-hoo!); and to a lesser extent, Yahtzee; hence, a step above the rest, if only by virtue of your television programs.

 

[ElTigreSantiago]

You at least aren't taught to hate Americans in elementary school, I see you as our only ally. I'm just not a fan of your citizens that say all Americans are fat. Some of us are, but there are plenty (like me) that get more exercise in one day than they do in their entire life.

 

[Sindaine]

All I can say is that London is totally fucking awesome. Queen, fish and chips, Judas Priest, Shawn of the Dead, Hot Fuzz, awesome subways, Lucy Pinder, need I say more?

Amsterdam is also cool too because of its... uh Natural Landmarks.

Big, beautiful...tracts of land....

 

[cobra_ky]

I like Britain, and that's not how most Of America thinks of you guys. See during the election liberals like Obama had to put all of the evils on G.W Bush and he cant do that if he plays you guys up as our allies.

What Im saying is he has his head so far up his ass (and the media is helping it stick)that he has no idea how much you guys helped us out in recent past as well as before this war in other wars.

He's pissing on it for political gain

how exactly does pissing on britain help obama?

 

[messy]

I like Britain, and that's not how most Of America thinks of you guys. See during the election liberals like Obama had to put all of the evils on G.W Bush and he cant do that if he plays you guys up as our allies.

What Im saying is he has his head so far up his ass (and the media is helping it stick)that he has no idea how much you guys helped us out in recent past as well as before this war in other wars.

He's pissing on it for political gain

how exactly does pissing on britain help obama?

Well in the actual election to get the vote of liberals/dis-satisfied conservatives it makes sense to distance himself from the Bush adminstration as much as possible. And since Bush and Blair were seen as close allies it follows that he shouldn't seem to keen. Also Blair (and therefore Britain) was a supporter of the war in Iraq and I imagine he was after the vote of those who were anti-war (liberals/dis-satisfied conservatives)

 

[War Penguin]

What do I think of the English? I'LL TELL YOU WHAT I THINK OF THE ENGLISH! They are awesome. They gave so many influences. We Americans couldn't be anywhere without the English.

 

[Samoftherocks]

England is to America as the father in the "I learned it from watching you!" anti-drug commerical is to the his son. Every bad habit, every cultural nuance gone horribly wrong, the degradation of the English language, and all the peoples America oppressed we learned the technique from England.

And we then did it better to the degree where America has almost succeeded in eclipsing England in historical assholery.

That said, Good Omens, Harry Potter, and Simon Pegg are three of the more awesome things I have beheld, and I must thank you for that.

 

[cobra_ky]

Yes, I think he's the kind to snub our closest friends and allies (as sort of mentioned here) in hopes of getting touchy feely with our enemies. He's also the same guy who came into power in an economic crisis and decided to host the most elaborate inaugeration ceremony in history. One of his other first acts was to basically build a new presidential car on the taxpayer's buck since for whatever reason he wasn't satisfied with the old one.

the secret service now rolls out a new presidential limo for every inauguration. bush got a new one each time he was elected.

His wife is running around with an axe to grind, and really all he seems to do in his job is smile a lot and project "oh yeah I'm a minority left wing president".

wait, what's his wife doing?

 

[TriggerUnhappy]

This is how I think of the UK:

Spoiler: Sorry, couldn't help it XD

Really though, I view Britain as being like our brothers across the pond and believe them to be one if, if not our greatest ally. Plan on visiting the country someday as well.