To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

[randomsix]

As for Settlers 7...really? That's your only excuse for buying it, so you can play it offline? If you're on a desktop, why would it not be hooked up to the internet? If you have a laptop, guess what, most Cafes, train stations, airports, hotels and libraries offer free Wi-Fi. The only time you could be without internet is after a recent move (Which is usually back up and running in a couple days), in a car (and that is now changing as well, with newer cars actually having Wi-Fi ) or if it has been turned off (In which case, you should be spending your time finding a second job over gaming)

You falsely assume that all laptops have wi-fi capability. Mine does not, so your premise is incorrect.

In addition, what if he's not going to buy one of those new cars for a few years?

There are a myriad of reasons for wanting to have access to a game while offline.

Then what purpose does that Laptop serve other then to do work, that Laptop obviously isn't meant for gaming.

Wi-fi in cars seems to becoming a standard, most new models will have access to wi-fi in a few given years and even if he doesn't buy one, he doesn't need to game while driving and there are a number of things he can do while in a car. The Radio is right there, talk to the people near ya, take a nap. It's not like gaming is the only way to past the time.

Then why don't you give me some of those reasons then? Give me a reason why you would want to be left out of the loop for updates, not be able to access multiplayer or even speak with friends? You have quantitative amount of excuses that lack quality as far as I can see.

You should disabuse yourself of the notion that one requires an internet connection to play a game. I use my laptop mostly to play Morrowind. Therefor, your first statement is patently false. I would advise you to not make unfounded assumptions in a debate.

To the second paragraph: It's great that wi-fi seems to be becoming a standard (though this is the first I've heard of it), but that doesn't help me unless I'm in a new model car, and have that car's wi-fi key, and am in a place where the car can access wi-fi. I don't plan on buying one such car for many years, and I bet that many others are in the same boat (or car). To your point about not needing to game in a car, I agree. He does not have to. But then, you do not need to game either; there are a number of other things for you to do. The TV is right there, you could talk to people near you or on the phone, or you could take a nap. It's not like gaming is the only way to pass the time.

I hope the sarcasm above has shown you the absurdity of your argument.

As far as updates go, I can do without them. That's not saying that I don't want them, but if it's a choice between being able to play a game without updates and not being able to play an updated game, I believe we would both rather play the game, even if it isn't updated.

Multiplayer is in the same boat as updates. (In case you don't understand, replace all references to updates in the above paragraph with references to multiplayer). In addition, I prefer to play the campaign of most games rather than online multiplayer.

I don't know about you, but as far as friends go, I prefer to socially network IRL. Telephones also work for this purpose.

I would advise you look up the definition of quantitative, because it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Now that I have invalidated your argument, I must point out something important:
I'm not saying that playing games without an internet connection is superior to playing them with one. I'm saying that some people don't always have the option to play with an internet connection and should not be punished for that.

If you have any rebuttals, I would be happy to respond again.

 

[Hairetos]

It only covers 'piracy' in a market economy. I have drawn a little illustration to help you realize the error of limiting infinite resources for profit.

'Free Information'? I hope you don't mean every game/program/script should be free.

Would you spend hundreds of hours learning C then C++/Java or what have you, then working full time to develop an application only to give it out for (to quote Ned Flanders) NOTHING AT ALL! NOTHING AT ALL! ?

You say everyone would benefit, not the designers and developers who would be living in cardboard boxes. And consider the lack of competition that would all of a sudden exist, there would be no motivation to make a better program than your rivals.

Lol there are a ton of people who do that. Go find the linux community or anyone who affiliates with FOSS.

Hundreds of thousands of lines of code developed, released to the public for free. Happens all the time dude, so don't pretend it doesn't.

 

[Zannah]

Let me put it like this. I work in the so called creative industry. As does my significant other. Unfortunately, while neither of us is anywhere near bad at what we do, we work in an industry, that is too busy crying about piracy, and suing eleven year olds for everything they have, to, you know... not rip off anyone working in it, that isn't a mega star or ceo.
The entertainment industry, even though relying on people like me, that is people that produce something creative, cannot be asked to provide me with sufficient funds for my own entertainment, in fact hardly enough for food, so in an act of vigilancy, I bypass the industries rights, to provide myself with fun for free, just as they bypass my rights, providing themselves with my work, for significantly less then it's worth.
In a better world, one might call this 'just' or 'fair'. Unfortunately, in the world I live in, there's law in place, to protect the industry from being ripped off, but now laws in place, to protect me from being ripped off. And apparently that makes me a bad person, and a criminal.
Yeah, right.

 

[Snotnarok]

I pirate games that have no demo so I can actually try them before I buy them. I'm not going to just chance that it works on my PC and that it deserves its metacritic score. If I don't like it I delete it (Why would I keep a game I don't like?) if I like it I buy it.

The devs don't want to let you try the game or see just how well it runs on your PC then I make my own trial, it's only fair since they have millions of dollars and I barely have money now a days.

And before you call me out on it and tell me that I don't buy my games and that I'm just pirating all games

Spoiler

I buy my games thank you

I don't think there is anything wrong with what you are doing. Pirating games to see if you like them and then purchasing the ones you buy is, in my opinion, the best argument for piracy out there right now. While some people take advantage of the ability and don't buy the actual game if it's good, I'm betting most of them would not have bought the game in the first place. It's quite likely that more people buy good games then would have before due to piracy.

It's almost CERTAIN that less people buy bad games then would have because of piracy.

I can't see how that is a bad thing over all.

Many games are released with 1 hour trial versions etc (popcap games does it all the time), and if more companies did that I would then say piracy was not needed anymore and I could side more with people who say it is all together bad.

I commend you for stepping up and explaining why you pirate and showing that you actually purchase games as well.

Well if I just said "I buy the games" I get the goodie two shoe eyeroll and a lecture telling me that I'm lying and murdering families. I'm just trying to make sure I like the game before I buy it, seriously the only burned games you'll find here is a fan game of Sonic that works on the Sega CD (Sonic Megamix, totally worth playing).

Do most people do what I do? No they just pirate it and move on, that's their business. I'm a collector so I like having this stuff ya know?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

seriously? you dont buy dvds because you can't deal with a 30 second delay, jesus christ man i didnt know you had seven jobs and various families keeping you so busy that you have the time left over for a two hour film, your excuse is null. You fail. .

Yes, that's one of the reasons why I don't buy DVD's and that's why I've stopped buying games containing DRM. I'm tired of being labeled as a criminal when I'm not and I'm sure as hell tired of going through hops and lops just to play a DVD when I can just as easily download a copy and be able to watch it right away.

It's annoying, it has no uses on a legal copy of the movie and if that's how companies choose to treat their customers then I see absolutely no reason why I should support them.

It's funny how every measure taking against piracy ends up hurting pr annoying the customer more than the pirate.

 

[RDubayoo]

@Snotnarok

Sorry, you're still part of the problem even if you buy every game that you pirate and like. Why? Because of the nature of torrenting. If you're downloading a pirated game via torrent, that'll help the other torrenters downloading the same game. As the wikipedia article puts it:

As more peers join the swarm, the likelihood of a successful download increases.

See? Even though you do buy the games, by joining in the torrent you're helping all the pirates who don't. Maybe they could still download the game with or without you. But it's kind of like holding the door open for a guy who shoplifted a game as he runs out the store. Maybe he could open the door on his own, but why should you help him even that much?

 

[kickasspeanut]

the pc platform is slowly dieing

developers are showing less and less support for it (patches and content in such)

so why should the pc copy of a game cost more or equal to the price of a console version which will get full dev support (eg. bfbc2,mw2,ect)

when i buy a game i go to the store knowing what i want and knowing it will be good

but it's hard to do that anymore since theres so much shit coming out of activision and ea (its not all shit but you get my point)

and if a game is bad or not to your liking what are you gonna do?, return it? oh wait, you can't.

 

[saruman31]

@RDubayoo
I lol @ your self righteousness.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

A demo ends at the first level on most points. This is usually the first mission following the tutorial and sometimes things will be cut to make the demo shorter. Like the Arkham Asylum demo, half the first building was cut out to speed the demo along. If you play past the point where you would suspect a normal official demo would end, then its not a demo anymore.

Like I said, if the publisher wants to set the limit on a demo then they should release an official one, if they don't then technically there is no demo limit since there is no demo.


Likewise, if a person has to download a 9 GB full game to get a demo (instead of a much smaller official demo), then they get to choose where the demo ends.

So basically what you're saying is that they can decide to play up until the final boss of that 9 GB game before deciding that they dislike it and delete it without ever paying the publisher. Why not? They decided that's where the Demo ends, I think a previous user put it best,

I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html

I started pirating when PC game quality went down. I will no longer buy PC games at full price, simply because they are rushed out, rarely supported after launch, or just awful ports.

If they are so bad, don't play them. Don't deny companies money and then cry like a little ***** when they don't have enough money to make quality products.

Yes it's ok for them to ship broken and terrible products and steal my money, but im not allowed to do anything back? screw that. I've wasted so much money on shitty PC games i dont give a fuck if some faceless millionaire studio cant afford to make their next shit-tastic DLC.

Metro 2033, unplayable for the first 2 months
Empire Total war
Alpha Protocol
Gothic 4

Then assholes behind Kane and Lynch "Oh I know, lets charge 50 dollars for 4 hours of mediocre gameplay"

I know some suckers who will keep throwing money at it, but I ain't one of them.

Why are you spending money on the games that are crappy then? Why not wait a week after the launch and read reviews? Watch gameplay videos, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE BUYING! Ever heard of the phrase "Consumer beware?" it's your money, so use it on the quality games you're interested in. Don't dive head first into a game on launch day, that's the fastest way to lose out.

Don't blame developers for your carelessness with money, those mutlimillion dollar publishers don't even see most of the $60 dollars they charge.

Reviews dont focus on technical issues. There is virtually no way to tell if a game is even going to run on your machine before you buy it. You can meet all the specs and then some, and still have the game run like shit, as was the case with Metro 2033. There hasn't been a PC game in 2010 that has worked hands down perfectly the way it should. I am no longer going to pay full price to beta test a game.



Because playing the game to the half way point before making a decision and deleting it doesn't really count as a demo. It counts as regular piracy.

I don't agree.

Playing a game to the halfway point and then deciding you don't like it and not purchasing it counts as piracy (as long as the reason you don't like it is that the game is only 4 hours long for instance).

If he bought the game after playing it halfway through then that is not piracy at all. He tested the game, liked it, and bought it. Not piracy.

If you play a game for 20+ hours before deciding you don't like it....I'd say thats probably piracy at that point...but still not horrid.

If you play any game for 100+ hours without paying for it then that is wrong. Very wrong and you are a bad person. A game that gives you that much entertainment (and you can't say you did something you don't like for 100+ hours) should be paid for period.

But trying out a game before buying it? I kinda wish that was an option more. Should make PC games rentable now that piracy is out there for instance. Try a game for a week for $5 for instance. Now that would drastically cut back on piracy.

So many games I have (like Mass Effect) that I had to play for 10+ hours before I got so bored I stopped. Many people love Mass Effect (I have it for the Xbox 360) but I just couldn't get into it. Renting games on the PC is something that could be easily done now since demo's of full games often have a time limit...just increase the time limit for rentals.

There are many ways to fight piracy...that solve gamers problems as well. Just telling pirates "you are bad" is not the solution.

As for Settlers 7...really? That's your only excuse for buying it, so you can play it offline? If you're on a desktop, why would it not be hooked up to the internet? If you have a laptop, guess what, most Cafes, train stations, airports, hotels and libraries offer free Wi-Fi. The only time you could be without internet is after a recent move (Which is usually back up and running in a couple days), in a car (and that is now changing as well, with newer cars actually having Wi-Fi ) or if it has been turned off (In which case, you should be spending your time finding a second job over gaming)

You falsely assume that all laptops have wi-fi capability. Mine does not, so your premise is incorrect.

In addition, what if he's not going to buy one of those new cars for a few years?

There are a myriad of reasons for wanting to have access to a game while offline.

Then what purpose does that Laptop serve other then to do work, that Laptop obviously isn't meant for gaming.

Wi-fi in cars seems to becoming a standard, most new models will have access to wi-fi in a few given years and even if he doesn't buy one, he doesn't need to game while driving and there are a number of things he can do while in a car. The Radio is right there, talk to the people near ya, take a nap. It's not like gaming is the only way to past the time.

Then why don't you give me some of those reasons then? Give me a reason why you would want to be left out of the loop for updates, not be able to access multiplayer or even speak with friends? You have quantitative amount of excuses that lack quality as far as I can see.

You should disabuse yourself of the notion that one requires an internet connection to play a game. I use my laptop mostly to play Morrowind. Therefor, your first statement is patently false. I would advise you to not make unfounded assumptions in a debate.

To the second paragraph: It's great that wi-fi seems to be becoming a standard (though this is the first I've heard of it), but that doesn't help me unless I'm in a new model car, and have that car's wi-fi key, and am in a place where the car can access wi-fi. I don't plan on buying one such car for many years, and I bet that many others are in the same boat (or car). To your point about not needing to game in a car, I agree. He does not have to. But then, you do not need to game either; there are a number of other things for you to do. The TV is right there, you could talk to people near you or on the phone, or you could take a nap. It's not like gaming is the only way to pass the time.

I hope the sarcasm above has shown you the absurdity of your argument.

As far as updates go, I can do without them. That's not saying that I don't want them, but if it's a choice between being able to play a game without updates and not being able to play an updated game, I believe we would both rather play the game, even if it isn't updated.

Multiplayer is in the same boat as updates. (In case you don't understand, replace all references to updates in the above paragraph with references to multiplayer). In addition, I prefer to play the campaign of most games rather than online multiplayer.

I don't know about you, but as far as friends go, I prefer to socially network IRL. Telephones also work for this purpose.

I would advise you look up the definition of quantitative, because it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Now that I have invalidated your argument, I must point out something important:
I'm not saying that playing games without an internet connection is superior to playing them with one. I'm saying that some people don't always have the option to play with an internet connection and should not be punished for that.

If you have any rebuttals, I would be happy to respond again.

I don't think I can rebuttle to that. Though now the only real gripe I have with the user deciding to download a offline version isn't because he has access to it everywhere, or because he doesn't need an internet connection, its simply because he has a crappy internet, the same kind that I use, and believes that it is right to rip off a publisher and the developer of the game because of this. That's just greedy to me.

 

[Ghost]

It only covers 'piracy' in a market economy. I have drawn a little illustration to help you realize the error of limiting infinite resources for profit.

'Free Information'? I hope you don't mean every game/program/script should be free.

Would you spend hundreds of hours learning C then C++/Java or what have you, then working full time to develop an application only to give it out for (to quote Ned Flanders) NOTHING AT ALL! NOTHING AT ALL! ?

You say everyone would benefit, not the designers and developers who would be living in cardboard boxes. And consider the lack of competition that would all of a sudden exist, there would be no motivation to make a better program than your rivals.

Lol there are a ton of people who do that. Go find the linux community or anyone who affiliates with FOSS.

Hundreds of thousands of lines of code developed, released to the public for free. Happens all the time dude, so don't pretend it doesn't.

It's called 'Open Source' and yes it does have its advantages, but it also has drawbacks. If everything was open source the world of Software would be a disaster. Most people developing Open Source software do it to improve their skills, or to sell themselves to potential employers.

And i'll see your herp and raise you a derp by pointing out that all Linux distributions combined have a tiny amount of the total 'market' share, i'm not saying all Linux distro's are bad, just that retail closed source OS's (e.g. Windows) are used by far more people.

And hey, the big Open Source project; Open Office. Let's be honest, it's vastly inferior to MS Word. Though I admit the post of mine you quoted did omit any reference to Open Source software.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

*Snip*

I know and I honestly wish more people acted like that. That's probably the best and only acceptable form of piracy that I have heard so far. I'm sorry if I offended you at all by it.

 

[Dark Prophet]

I have pirated some games, but for tasting not for keeping. For example Dawn of War II, I pirated it, found it to be good deleted the pirated version and bought it. Red Alert 3 pirated it, found it to be shit deleted it and will buy it if it ends up in a bin. And I do it only if I'm really interested in a game but can't find a demo or the demo is really really short.

 

[wulfy42]

I really don't see PC gaming as dying lately. Yes, some games that are released on the PC and consoles are supported more on the Console. To be honest if given a choice I buy a game on my PS3 first, Xbox 360 next and only on my PC if I have no other option. I have many reasons for that but the primary one is my computer is 5 years old and while it runs most things just fine, I hate taking a chance on new games. If there were demo's of PC games that would change a bit. But I also like to play games with my game controlers and very few support that on the PC.

PC gaming still brings us things like Minecraft and Torchlight that are not available on Consoles. I don't think it is going to go poof in the near future and I certainly don't think it will go poof due to piracy.

If piracy eventually causes more demos to be released for PC games and forces companies to get rid of bugs etc before releasing products then it will have been a good thing over all. Companies get away with releasing unplayable games way to often and sometimes they do it to the extreme. I've bought quite a few unplayable PC games over the years (none as bad as Hellgate London but others were pretty close) and I bet piracy helps protect the masses from that.

It's a good thing.

Good PC games are selling just fine, making plenty of profit and probably more of a profit due to piracy (since word of mouth gets around and most casual gamers don't pirate).

If a day comes where everyone pirates games then something will need to be done. For now I don't see it as a big problem.

 

[Korolev]

People like to get stuff for free, and if they can get it for free without having to take risks or without having to actually feel like they stole something, then they'll do it. No matter how many studies you show them, no matter what logic you use, the simple fact is that they want to steal it, and they'll invent a million rationalizations to justify it to themselves. And the end of the day, they know it's theft just as much as we do, and they know they're lying to themselves - but they'll continue to do it anyway.

As I've said, you'll never stop piracy. It would be nice if you could, but that's an impossible dream now. Publishers and studios have to, unfortunately, provide more incentive for people to buy it physically. This is one of the reasons why consoles are becoming more and more popular and why these special edition packs with pewter figures and Night Vision Goggles are being marketed - you can't digitally pirate a physical object, can you?

Pirates will never understand the damage they do, because they aren't creators, they aren't makers. They don't understand, they CANNOT understand, the damage they cause. They can't create a great piece of intellectual property, so they have no idea of the worth of that property. They didn't spend years of their lives, and millions of dollars developing something, so they can't comprehend why it is wrong to steal it.

I don't want to get all Ayn Rand on you (I don't like Rand very much myself), but this really is a contest between the Creators and the Moochers. Pirates are moochers, who fail to understand why IP is important because they can't make any themselves.