To anyone who thinks piracy is ok

Recommended Videos

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
8,473
0
0
Kair said:
Stealing credit for the production of information (in hopes of profiting socially or financially from it) and the distribution of information are different.
It certainly didn't seem that different.
I kept the original material (so it wasn't actually stolen, but copied), my original group partner copied it and gave it to his friends. Then he decided to go ahead and drop out of my group so he could present with his friends.

And of course, the rest was a colossal mess. I ended up having to do some incredibly stupid paper as a "makeup Final".

What's the demarcation for work that was intended to benefit the creator first?
Because under your system, that concept sounds like it's intended to be immoral.

If that's the case, then under your system, I was doomed before I even began.
That's an incentive for me to NOT produce good work. Natch, I didn't bother putting that sort of effort into group projects ever again, because it's a fair assumption that nobody else will be bothered to do anything of value unless they have to.

I have no problem with releasing my work for free as long as I'm given credit (for ethical and practical purposes, in addition to the usual irrational/egotistical reasons), but for any work where it directly effects my livelihood, I'd be wary.

So pardon me if I'm not buying the "information wants to be free" gig entirely; because for some of us, creating that information means putting food on the table.
Even in that youtube video you cited, those people who were creating those great works for free still had to do something else in order to live.
 

z3rostr1fe

New member
Aug 14, 2009
590
0
0
Okay. I am sorely tired of reading all the banter in this thread. I'll read more after page 5 later... *bookmarks page*

I have worked in a very small software company(which also offers iPhone games development), so I have a very partial view of the behind-the-scenes of a similar industry.

Of course, by now, you know that making software is quite hard. I, personally, experienced such hell partly because we were using the RAD methodology. Although in a bigger company, they are always pressed for deadlines for the components that make the software. For the owner of the company, the longer it takes for a software to reach gold, the more they lose money. And even if they have hired more professionals just to get the software working as designed, it'll cost more money for them. And i'll restate that making software is quite hard. (And before you tell me, a game is also a piece of software.)

After long sleepless nights writing code, producing content, playtesting, etc., the software is finally finished, and with a large sum of money poured to it to become a product. The next logical step is, of course, to sell the product.

As a smart consumer, we always have to judge the product so that we could decide if we are purchasing it or not. It's like those testers for perfumes, we have to smell it so we can see if it's appropriate to our tastes(it's not the taste buds that will do the smelling, of course. Well, you know what I mean...). For a game, we have to experience the gameplay itself so that we could see if it will waste our time long enough before our next game purchase. Thus a demo of that game should be available for the consumers.

Unfortunately, most of the time the demo is much better than the whole game itself. So some of us will do something in order to experience the whole game without giving an arm and a leg, and assure ourselves that it was the real deal, thus resorting to pirated copies. And when we genuinely find out that the game really sucked bad, we can finally come to a decision to not buy the game. Else, if you are ashamed that you didn't buy the game by pirating it, you go paying for it, either for a physical medium or through a digital distributor.

Now, there are these people who REALLY wanted to gain it for free. These are the real PIRATES. And DRM is really aimed at them. However, the problem with software, which includes software with DRM, is that with the right tools, any hacker can change the way it behaves. And those software behaviors include those anti-piracy measures that were with the software. Therefore, DRM isn't really achieving ANYTHING, aside from being a pain in the butt for those consumers who paid for the hardwork poured by those developers who had such a hard time producing it.

Sometimes, the sales of the software won't give a HUGE amount of profit for the company who produced it. And it's caused either by the software's inability to please the consumer OR piracy was too severe. And most of the time, if not ALL THE TIME, they blame it to piracy, even if it was really the software itself that is to blame. Sure, maybe it really was piracy to blame for the lackluster sales of a software. But if the consumers REALLY believed that the software was really worth the price, then they'll buy it.

What complicates the piracy issue is the fact that we can easily copy the files from one system to another, which makes it impossible to control.

...
Now resuming reading at page 6...
 

Sporky111

Digital Wizard
Dec 17, 2008
4,009
0
0
Arehexes said:
Sporky111 said:
Let me make a nice flow chart:

You buy a game
v
The developers and everyone involved makes money
v
They take this money and use it to make more games​
Now, that would be nice and all. But this is what really happens a lot of the time.

You don't buy a game
v
The developers and everyone involved don't make money
v
They take this loss as a lesson to take less risks​
So, to anyone who pirates: I don't want to hear a single one of you complaining about DRM, or the low quality of games lately, or the neglected indie developers, or anything like that. If the industry weren't trying to fight against you, they'd be working on making better games.
I'm pretty sure most people who dev a game are paid before they release a game. Your saying they spend 5 months working and getting no pay till after they get the game released.
That's not what I mean. Obviously, the people who put in work hours are getting paid for hours or salary. But if a game doesn't make a profit then they run the risk of job losses, or even the complete shut down of a developer if they're part of a larger company (which seems to be pretty much a necessity). I thought I wouldn't need to explain this but if the company isn't making money, the workers aren't making money.
 

Kair

New member
Sep 14, 2008
674
0
0
Atmos Duality said:
Kair said:
Stealing credit for the production of information (in hopes of profiting socially or financially from it) and the distribution of information are different.
It certainly didn't seem that different.
I kept the original material (so it wasn't actually stolen, but copied), my original group partner copied it and gave it to his friends. Then he decided to go ahead and drop out of my group so he could present with his friends.

And of course, the rest was a colossal mess. I ended up having to do some incredibly stupid paper as a "makeup Final".

What's the demarcation for work that was intended to benefit the creator first?
Because under your system, that concept sounds like it's intended to be immoral.

If that's the case, then under your system, I was doomed before I even began.
That's an incentive for me to NOT produce good work. Natch, I didn't bother putting that sort of effort into group projects ever again, because it's a fair assumption that nobody else will be bothered to do anything of value unless they have to.

I have no problem with releasing my work for free as long as I'm given credit (for ethical and practical purposes, in addition to the usual irrational/egotistical reasons), but for any work where it directly effects my livelihood, I'd be wary.

So pardon me if I'm not buying the "information wants to be free" gig entirely; because for some of us, creating that information means putting food on the table.
Even in that youtube video you cited, those people who were creating those great works for free still had to do something else in order to live.
My argument was never that people should not be credited for their work, because this does not cause any real conflict with the new societies.

I said that it is wrong to hinder the distribution of information for profit. The distribution of information is an entirely different subject from who gets credit for the production of information.

The wages of the developers can be sorted out in a number of ways depending on the progress of the society.
 

DarthLazze

New member
Nov 1, 2010
2
0
0
I have only one thing to say..

Piracy, when used to rip games because people are too greedy to purchase them, IS BAD!

My personal opinion is that if you pirate a game and then like it, GO BUY IT!! SUPPORT THE DEVS!

But in no way should we support devs that send out BAD, CRAPPY games that just expect us to pay up because it's from EA or Dice or Ubisoft or LucasArts and therefore "inevitably good", then it's bull****.

Back in the days, when graphics were really bad, devs had to create a cool game play to keep up game sales, but today, devs think they can do a half-finished game or a "one play through" game, like Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and earn a big buck on that.

Plus.. What's the deal with new games and no multiplayer? Where's the gaming value in that? 50$ for TFU II and 5 hours of play?

Devs should be shown, by bad sales of a game, that what they shipped out, was BAD. Back to the drawing board, guys.

We all want good, lasting games! Not one-niters.

My 2c
 

Arehexes

New member
Jun 27, 2008
1,141
0
0
dastardly said:
Killbot said:
Pfft, piracy is fine.
It's a testament to the selfless nature that some people can exhibit.
All the stuff about it destroying industry is just boo-hoo from the publishers cos they aren't making the money they want to each quarter. So what? Produce a decent enough game to get people to buy it so they'll support you in the future instead of ripping your game off. Would you really buy a game from a company that has let you down again and again, or would you rather get a hold of it for free to give it a test run? That being said if you really wanted a game would you rather pirate it or buy it? If you REALLY wanted it... enough to say... buy it?!

Oh and btw, check your sources. I don't think ANY company wants to get the eye for being pro-piracy... ANY, especially a po-dunk like tweakguides.com! So saying that's unbiased is wrong.

If piracy has taught me anything, it's that people will believe anything is bad as long as its shoved in their face with a big sign saying it is and a rockin' tune that just makes them want to obey the law! It's that side of it that makes me lose almost all faith in humans... dumb animals.
Someone get this li'l nipper a medal! He's just so selfless in his giving of other people's stuff. There is just absolutely no evidence to support your claim that people who pirate a game to "give it a test run," and find they enjoy it, then turn around and pay money for a game they ALREADY HAVE. Oh, and then surely they'll turn around and buy the sequel after getting the first game for free with no consequences!

That'd be like thinking ANYONE, ANYWHERE goes to a deli, gets a sandwich, and then loves that sandwich so much they go "Holy balls! You--deli guy--I'd like to pay for this sandwich AGAIN it was just so great!"

(And before you try to pull the "Ah, but free samples make people buy the product!" game, let's recall that free samples give you a SMALL TASTE of the product in order to entice you to buy the full version. And promos that give you a free meal with a coupon? Limited time only.

The "free sample" provided by piracy is the ENTIRE GAME. And then it's always available, for free, anytime you like. There is no enticement whatsoever for these people to turn around and become paying contributors--they got it all for free, so why go back and pay now? They know full well the company will make another (thanks to those saps foolish enough to BUY the game, har har), and they can just yoink that one, too.

Nothing you say stands up to the statistical evidence, or even basic human psychology. It's the kind of logic you only find on an extra 21st chromosome.
about that free sample crack, um I downloaded a few old ds games and tried them and liked it. I moved it to a folder called "buy now play later", and shockingly enough I did (Etrian Oddysey 1 cost me almost 30 bucks used cause it's so rare). So don't lump us together saying "why buy if i get it for free", cause I prefer to own and support good games, I just wish the money I spent on Etrian Odyysey 1 went to atlus.
 

Arehexes

New member
Jun 27, 2008
1,141
0
0
DarthLazze said:
I have only one thing to say..

Piracy, when used to rip games because people are too greedy to purchase them, IS BAD!

My personal opinion is that if you pirate a game and then like it, GO BUY IT!! SUPPORT THE DEVS!

But in no way should we support devs that send out BAD, CRAPPY games that just expect us to pay up because it's from EA or Dice or Ubisoft or LucasArts and therefore "inevitably good", then it's bull****.

Back in the days, when graphics were really bad, devs had to create a cool game play to keep up game sales, but today, devs think they can do a half-finished game or a "one play through" game, like Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and earn a big buck on that.

Plus.. What's the deal with new games and no multiplayer? Where's the gaming value in that? 50$ for TFU II and 5 hours of play?

Devs should be shown, by bad sales of a game, that what they shipped out, was BAD. Back to the drawing board, guys.

We all want good, lasting games! Not one-niters.

My 2c
*slow claps*This is a belief me and a few friends share. When other friends ask me to hack there system or "get" them games, I tell them no because they had no intention to buy the game. I even rip my own games when I buy them so I can shelf the game and keep it home and safe from getting stolen(and i never had intentions to give them out). I can't stand people who say "I pirate cause i dont' want to buy it", if you like it you can keep the rip just buy the game.
 

DarthLazze

New member
Nov 1, 2010
2
0
0
Arehexes said:
DarthLazze said:
I have only one thing to say..

Piracy, when used to rip games because people are too greedy to purchase them, IS BAD!

My personal opinion is that if you pirate a game and then like it, GO BUY IT!! SUPPORT THE DEVS!

But in no way should we support devs that send out BAD, CRAPPY games that just expect us to pay up because it's from EA or Dice or Ubisoft or LucasArts and therefore "inevitably good", then it's bull****.

Back in the days, when graphics were really bad, devs had to create a cool game play to keep up game sales, but today, devs think they can do a half-finished game or a "one play through" game, like Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, and earn a big buck on that.

Plus.. What's the deal with new games and no multiplayer? Where's the gaming value in that? 50$ for TFU II and 5 hours of play?

Devs should be shown, by bad sales of a game, that what they shipped out, was BAD. Back to the drawing board, guys.

We all want good, lasting games! Not one-niters.

My 2c
*slow claps*This is a belief me and a few friends share. When other friends ask me to hack there system or "get" them games, I tell them no because they had no intention to buy the game. I even rip my own games when I buy them so I can shelf the game and keep it home and safe from getting stolen(and i never had intentions to give them out). I can't stand people who say "I pirate cause i dont' want to buy it", if you like it you can keep the rip just buy the game.
I'm glad we agree. It always pleasant to see a fellow comrade. I, like you, don't hand out any ripped games, if people are only intending to have them as cracks..
Devs need support, but they need support in the right direction, so that they do no not walk down "crap game lane".
 

Arehexes

New member
Jun 27, 2008
1,141
0
0
Sporky111 said:
Arehexes said:
Sporky111 said:
Let me make a nice flow chart:

You buy a game
v
The developers and everyone involved makes money
v
They take this money and use it to make more games​
Now, that would be nice and all. But this is what really happens a lot of the time.

You don't buy a game
v
The developers and everyone involved don't make money
v
They take this loss as a lesson to take less risks​
So, to anyone who pirates: I don't want to hear a single one of you complaining about DRM, or the low quality of games lately, or the neglected indie developers, or anything like that. If the industry weren't trying to fight against you, they'd be working on making better games.
I'm pretty sure most people who dev a game are paid before they release a game. Your saying they spend 5 months working and getting no pay till after they get the game released.
That's not what I mean. Obviously, the people who put in work hours are getting paid for hours or salary. But if a game doesn't make a profit then they run the risk of job losses, or even the complete shut down of a developer if they're part of a larger company (which seems to be pretty much a necessity). I thought I wouldn't need to explain this but if the company isn't making money, the workers aren't making money.
Well even companies that make good games and sale great stuff get shut down. Could you explain that?
 

DigitalSushi

a gallardo? fine, I'll take it.
Dec 24, 2008
5,718
0
0
The moderators here would like to apologies to people actually having a discussion in this thread, unfortunately to the rampant admission of piracy a lock is in order to clean it up.

The Escapist have a good relationship with developers and we want to keep it that way, I'm really disappointed with the actions of some people on this thread.

As for the people having general discussion, you guys and girls keep being awesome.

~ColdStorage
 
Apr 16, 2009
101
0
0
Garak73 said:
Spot1990 said:
Garak73 said:
I'm for boycotting for the right reason but being a business isn't a valid reason. If a company acts unethically, protest but not being your buddy and working for small or no profits isn't unethical.
Like charging $5 for $0.50 worth of popcorn maybe? Is that the right reason? How about showing me tv ads even though I paid to get into the theater and you know I am about as captive an audience as I can be. I can't mute it, if I get up I might lose my seat and if I leave the theater then I will not see the movie I intended to see.
Holy shit are you really so self-entitled that you'd boycott a movie theater for making a profit off ads and popcorn?
 

DeathsHands

New member
Mar 22, 2010
263
0
0
The fact that this thread is still alive is a really bad sign.

We all know that pirates are criminals. Can't change that. Deal with it.
 

Uncreation

New member
Aug 4, 2009
476
0
0
icame said:
I found an article, its 10 pages long, but is the most in depth look at piracy i have ever seen.
He takes a very unbiased look at it, and i plead to anyone who still pirates games to go read it.

http://www.tweakguides.com/Piracy_1.html
I don't have the time or the will to read all that, or all of what was written in this thread. Also, i am sick and tired of this endless discussion about piracy. People on both sides of the argument should just realize that what they say is not going to convince the other side, and just drop it, and continue to do what they do.

And as far as my position on this:

I pirate. I have for a long time. I will continue to do this. I am not going to list the reasons here, and i don't care what other people think about this. That is all. Good night.

Also, congrats on creating a 20 page thread i guess.

P.S.:piracy will allways exist in one form or another. If you think there is a way to stop it, or even reduce it drastically, you are deluding yourself.
 

Atheist.

Overmind
Sep 12, 2008
631
0
0
fletch_talon said:
Atheist. said:
Someone worked their asses off to develop scientific formulas, computer languages, and code that people use all the time to make video games. The video game producers don't pay Al-Khwarizmi's (the father of algebra) ancestors a stipend or gratuity for using his formulas. Neither do people that produce math books.

How is this fair to someone who created something for more useful than a video game? Information should be free, regardless of how much work one puts into discovering or creating it. I don't get where all these entertainment companies get off thinking they deserve the product of their labor, even though their product is based off of years of information other people created for free.

They can sell physical copies if they choose to do so, but in the end, their game is just a bunch of 1's and 0's. It's information. People should be free to do what they wish with it, be it modify, or otherwise use it.

I sure as hell know the first guy to create fire isn't getting royalties from the information he shared.
What do you do for a living?
Do you think you deserve payment for it?

Guess what?
So do the people who make videogames/movies/music etc.
How do you suggest they get paid for their work if their work is given away for free?
How do you justify making something requiring hours/weeks/months/years of work and effort if you aren't getting paid for it? People need money to live.

The world you propose would be incredibly devoid of any great quantity and quality of entertainment because those creating it would inevitably be hindered by needing to work another job in order to live, not to mention the rather massive lack of incentive to make anything, let alone aything of quality.

Sorry about all the questions but people like you truly irritate and baffle me. The only thing keeping me sane right now is the knowledge that you're a minority and that most people are smart enough to see that your beliefs are downright ridiculous.
The entertainment industry is too large in our world. Further advancement of humanity is hindered with all of the vast resources we pour into something that doesn't progress society. Entertainment shouldn't be an economic center, rather something done as a side project. I study pharmacology, something that will hopefully produce something useful, other than escapism from reality.

Entertainment is good, but it's not necessary. Working in an industry like that just seems so petty. Sure, it's rewarding to see people enjoy your work, but ultimately all you're creating is an alternate reality. And unfortunately in our times, people get paid far too much to entertain. Be it music, movies, sports, or video games.

I'm not saying this to hate on anybody, because I'm sure most people in the industry enjoy their work, which is great. I enjoy their work as well. But some people need to realize that as fun as games are, they're bundled information people can interact with.

The lack of incentive you're talking about is a null point. As I pointed out in my original post, people have created information for other people to use, throughout their entire lives. Do you think Einstein really lived a lavish life? No. Was his work important? Certainly far more valuable than the product of the combined effort of everyone that worked on a single video game. If you think Call of Duty is more valuable than general relativity, or Archimedes Principle we certainly have nothing more to talk about.

Sure, people wouldn't have as much of an incentive to work in the game industry, but if they truly love their work, they'd find an extra job to support their income as most researchers and hobbyists do.
 

mgbon2

New member
Nov 1, 2010
2
0
0
For anyone who's after cheap old games, check out GOG.com... NWN Diamond for $10. No excuses!