To the moderators of the Escapist:

[KSarty]

Actually, I would constitute the end of this discussion as being when we both have established that the forum guideline on this site are not properly publicized.

A mod just told you to stop and you didn't. Don't be surprised by the outcome.

 

[Pimppeter2]

I signed up to the Escapist believing it was a liberal, non-authoritarian and laid back kind of forum where I could speak freely without a moderator on your case after every post.
I was wrong about that...

It is. If you fallow the rules. If you have EVER watched any video here and gone to the forum you would see First second third fourth whatever posts always get probation. Don't blame it on us. The stuff you said after first is just quoting not actual discussion. PLUS it's only a probation! Relax! It doesn't affect you at all

Well, the brash decision to put me on probation may affect the time it takes for me to get certain badges.

Maybe I'll convert to Webby Award winning forum site, Gamespot.

Go ahead. I know at least I don't want you here anymore. You are what I call a *****. You broke the rules and are now playing the victim. Your not threatening anybody here, the escapist has plenty of users

 

[Frank_Sinatra_]

From what I've seen from the time I've been here, and the reinforcements on this thread, I find the moderating system here to be very just. With Mobius, and Necro their posts were much deserving of a permaban and for what I understood Necro was under probation at the time of his offensive post.
The concept of bringing someone back due to fame doesn't really make sense to me, we shouldn't let offenders walk because of fame. It isn't fair to the rest of the community.
Hypothetically: (Popularity ruling in effect) If I was permabanned I don't see myself as very popular so my ban wouldn't be as contested as say [user]MaxTheReaper[/user].
See how that isn't very fair?

The moderating here is one of the many reasons I came here, and continue to stay. Hell the moderating system here is the kind I use on the forum community I write for. (I will not say the name of the community I write for because that is against the rules.)

Well personally thank you Moderators, and Admin staff for making The Escapist a wonderful place to be.

Side Notes: I agree with [user]Therumancer[/user] about the moderators not needing to explain themselves when issuing a ban.

Unfortunately, popularity has no bearing on our moderation policies.

I wouldn't call that unfortunately, I would call it fortunately.

Quick question: If someone has been permabanned does that mean his/her access to the site has been banned or just their posting abilities?

[small]P.S. I am not sucking up to the Mods or the Admins, I use to be a troll (different site) and as a recovered one I respect authority, especially good authority.[/small]

 

[sky14kemea]

Again, as I mentioned to the person above, the comment says more than just, 'first'.
I'm new to the Escapist and I have NEVER come across any rules for posting on the forums.
I have never been directed to any 'terms' or 'conditions' or been sent a message explaining the rules.

As soon as you sign up you get this message in your inbox, so yes, you have been directed to terms and conditions.

We'd like to take a minute to welcome you to the site, and give you a bit of information about our forums.

We make keeping the forums respectable a high priority here, so please help us keep them a pleasant place to visit. Before you start posting, please take a few minutes to read the forum guidelines. They can be found on every site, posted on the top of the Off Topic forum. Other forums may also have a more detailed set of guidelines posted on them, which you should look at before posting. On each post on the forums you'll also find a report button - if you think a post is inappropriate, please click it to let a moderator know.

Since you're just setting up your account, why not take a few minutes to update your user profile? Fill in as much information as you'd like to share, and set your forum avatar by uploading an image or picking one from our avatar gallery. You can see the profiles of other users by clicking on their name in the forums, or by clicking on their avatar.

To send someone a private message, like this one, you can click on the envelope next to their name on the forums, or just send a message right from their profile. You can see the number of unread messages you have at the top of any forum page, or on the login panel on other pages on the site. And go ahead and add people to your friends if you'd like to keep track of them - you don't need their permission, and something good may come of it ...

If you have any questions or suggestions, please let us know.

Thanks for registering!

Er, no? I wasn't given a link directing me to the forum guidelines.
I'd appreciate you not telling me what I have and haven't received because if there's one thing that angers me more than anything, it's arrogance.

Everyone receives that e-mail when they sign up. You are the one being arrogant.

I am going to re-write my comment again with a minor adjustment, this time the emphasis will be on 'link'.

Er, no? I wasn't given a LINK directing me to the forum guidelines.
I'd appreciate you not telling me what I have and haven't received because if there's one thing that angers me more than anything, it's arrogance.

You were told exactly where you could find them - at the top of the Off Topic forum. You were told to familiarize yourself with the forum guidelines. You chose not to.

That is not our problem; you were given more than enough information to help yourself. This discussion ends here.

Actually, I would constitute the end of this discussion as being when we both have established that the forum guideline on this site are not properly publicized.

they're at the top of the forum section... just look up?

also, even if you couldnt find them, if you've been to any forums before this one you should at least be able to guess the guidelines, or just observe if others have been punished and avoid what they did.

 

[Pimppeter2]

The only thing im wondering here is are these concerns and questions coming about because people honestly want to have a talk with the mods about possibly changing some things or adding more leniency? Or is this a popularity contest, only concerning the who of banned people. There is nothing wrong backing up friends, but would this have even been an issue if we replaced the people in question? Rules are an intrinsic part of any social place, it seems that the very standards that the entire community once was so proud of have now become too much, or at least it seems that way. Popularity shouldn't be a factor in the application of punishment.

I agree. I haven't backed up anyone. The only one I had a question about was Kukul because I was honestly confused. I gave my two cents of wisdom to the mods, I just want newer users to understand because I have seen lots of mentions about Swasnson's suspension as well as Mobius's

 

[John Funk]

Again, as I mentioned to the person above, the comment says more than just, 'first'.
I'm new to the Escapist and I have NEVER come across any rules for posting on the forums.
I have never been directed to any 'terms' or 'conditions' or been sent a message explaining the rules.

As soon as you sign up you get this message in your inbox, so yes, you have been directed to terms and conditions.

We'd like to take a minute to welcome you to the site, and give you a bit of information about our forums.

We make keeping the forums respectable a high priority here, so please help us keep them a pleasant place to visit. Before you start posting, please take a few minutes to read the forum guidelines. They can be found on every site, posted on the top of the Off Topic forum. Other forums may also have a more detailed set of guidelines posted on them, which you should look at before posting. On each post on the forums you'll also find a report button - if you think a post is inappropriate, please click it to let a moderator know.

Since you're just setting up your account, why not take a few minutes to update your user profile? Fill in as much information as you'd like to share, and set your forum avatar by uploading an image or picking one from our avatar gallery. You can see the profiles of other users by clicking on their name in the forums, or by clicking on their avatar.

To send someone a private message, like this one, you can click on the envelope next to their name on the forums, or just send a message right from their profile. You can see the number of unread messages you have at the top of any forum page, or on the login panel on other pages on the site. And go ahead and add people to your friends if you'd like to keep track of them - you don't need their permission, and something good may come of it ...

If you have any questions or suggestions, please let us know.

Thanks for registering!

Er, no? I wasn't given a link directing me to the forum guidelines.
I'd appreciate you not telling me what I have and haven't received because if there's one thing that angers me more than anything, it's arrogance.

Everyone receives that e-mail when they sign up. You are the one being arrogant.

I am going to re-write my comment again with a minor adjustment, this time the emphasis will be on 'link'.

Er, no? I wasn't given a LINK directing me to the forum guidelines.
I'd appreciate you not telling me what I have and haven't received because if there's one thing that angers me more than anything, it's arrogance.

You were told exactly where you could find them - at the top of the Off Topic forum. You were told to familiarize yourself with the forum guidelines. You chose not to.

That is not our problem; you were given more than enough information to help yourself. This discussion ends here.

Actually, I would constitute the end of this discussion as being when we both have established that the forum guideline on this site are not properly publicized.

When you sign up to the forums, you automatically receive that private message.

The private message tells you to familiarize yourself with the forum guidelines before posting.

The private message tells you exactly where to find the forum guidelines.

The forum guidelines are perfectly publicized. What would you prefer? A blinking marquee? Neon sparkling glitter text? Huge 72-point font?

Despite being told exactly where you could find the forum guidelines that you were recommended to read, you did not. That is not our problem. The fault is yours, and yours alone. The only one here claiming that the forum guidelines are not being properly publicized (despite being stickied at the top of our most popular forum, and new users being told exactly where to find them in their intro PM) is you.

A word of advice, considering you seem to be bizarrely persistent in your refusal to read the guidelines yourself - mod sass (or, in this case, staff sass) is against our forum guidelines.

Consider this your final warning. I'm not going to say again: This discussion is over.

 

[Pimppeter2]

I signed up to the Escapist believing it was a liberal, non-authoritarian and laid back kind of forum where I could speak freely without a moderator on your case after every post.
I was wrong about that...

It is. If you fallow the rules. If you have EVER watched any video here and gone to the forum you would see First second third fourth whatever posts always get probation. Don't blame it on us. The stuff you said after first is just quoting not actual discussion. PLUS it's only a probation! Relax! It doesn't affect you at all

Well, the brash decision to put me on probation may affect the time it takes for me to get certain badges.

Maybe I'll convert to Webby Award winning forum site, Gamespot.

Go ahead. I know at least I don't want you here anymore. You are what I call a *****. You broke the rules and are now playing the victim. Your not threatening anybody here, the escapist has plenty of users

Are you a mod?

No, I'm a person with a brain

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I am going to re-write my comment again with a minor adjustment, this time the emphasis will be on 'link'.

Er, no? I wasn't given a LINK directing me to the forum guidelines.
I'd appreciate you not telling me what I have and haven't received because if there's one thing that angers me more than anything, it's arrogance.

You're throwing a pretty big hissy-fit over a probation, acting like you are being oppressed by the might of the totalitarian Escapist regime. Stop being a martyr and just enjoy the forum.

Well, this whole fiasco has sullied my enjoyment of the forum.

There wouldn't have been a fiasco if you hadn't made one. Did you really want so badly to be able to have your precious first post without the most minor warning we have?

 

[fenrizz]

I signed up to the Escapist believing it was a liberal, non-authoritarian and laid back kind of forum where I could speak freely without a moderator on your case after every post.
I was wrong about that...

It is. If you fallow the rules. If you have EVER watched any video here and gone to the forum you would see First second third fourth whatever posts always get probation. Don't blame it on us. The stuff you said after first is just quoting not actual discussion. PLUS it's only a probation! Relax! It doesn't affect you at all

Well, the brash decision to put me on probation may affect the time it takes for me to get certain badges.

Maybe I'll convert to Webby Award winning forum site, Gamespot.

Go ahead. I know at least I don't want you here anymore. You are what I call a *****. You broke the rules and are now playing the victim. Your not threatening anybody here, the escapist has plenty of users

And most of us quite like this little piece of the internet!
Also, I never read the forum guidelines, but acting civil and friendly always helped.
Hell, sometimes I even decide not to post something after writing it, just because I suspect it might be over the line.
Better not to take any chances, right?

 

[coldfrog]

To me, the real issue here is that unless you check someone's post list every day, it's nigh impossible to follow someone's past offenses. The only reason this forum stays this high-quality is because of the moderators, and given that their rules are quite clearly laid out, you can't really ever say someone has been wrongly banned. So perhaps it's not run by some kind of democratic overall community control, but neither is it your right to post here. Though I do often feel better when I see a message explaining it, (yes, I check every ban and probation because I have this awful problem with curiousity) if it doesn't, I just shrug and walk away. Even then I've only once or twice come across something that I didn't look at immediately and say, yes, this discipline is understandable. Even if it was harsh compared to the infraction, as mentioned previously, we can't know what past offenses of a similar nature were made. Honestly, we can't possibly know what's going on behind closed doors, and it's possible that mistakes are made from time to time, but if you get punished and feel like you DIDN'T deserve it, given the response of this post I have no doubt that someone will talk you through it.

I guess to me the biggest thing is, you can't change what other people do, you can only change your own posting habits, hopefully for the better. I've never been worried about this because I've followed the rules as best as I can and I haven't been disciplined yet, and to me, that's the best I think anyone can hope for.

I mean, with the exception of being so prosaic the Escapist instantly hires you and pays you huge wads of cash.

 

[Symp4thy]

And most of us quite like this little piece of the internet!
Also, I never read the forum guidelines, but acting civil and friendly always helped.
Hell, sometimes I even decide not to post something after writing it, just because I suspect it might be over the line.
Better not to take any chances, right?

I take the same approach to posting. I like the fact that the mods don't always explain themselves for taking disciplinary actions against users. I think it instills a sense of caution (for lack of a better term) in some users and makes them think twice about what they say. I'll admit, I made some stupid posts when I first joined but I quickly learned what is acceptable here. Now I always double check my words before posting. If they don't add to a discussion, I do my best not to post them. Also, I don't want to incur the wrath of the Grammar/Spelling Police.

I'm still a relatively new member, but I hope that with time and good contributions to discussion, I can become a valued member here.

 

[Susan Arendt]

To the folks saying that the mods shouldn't explain themselves, while I certainly understand that point of view, I'm personally very much in favor of transparency. People seem fond of believing mods and admins to be some Big Brothery overseer that acts on a whim -- far more difficult to uphold that view when we're perfectly happy to explain the rationale behind any decision. When folks understand, they're more content. I don't see a down side in that.

I have no qualms about explaining any decision I've made to anyone who asks -- but what I will not do is make a public spectacle of it. It's not productive, helpful, or necessary, and usually just stirs up more chaos than it prevents.

 

[Fightgarr]

Why do the mods need to explain themselves? You've read the forum guidelines (presumably) so it shouldn't be confusing. The fact that someone's post are int he thousands and they're a "well known" member of the community should have no effect on whether or not they were being a dick. Take TheNecroswanson who seems to be one of the main people we are all whining about. Sure I thought he was a pretty cool guy but the fact that he had 6000 posts and had been a relatively prominent contributor to discussion means nothing if he's continually throwing generalized insults at a vast demographic of people. Now I don't know enough about the Darth Mobius situation to make a judgment but, again, moderation shouldn't judged by the community just because the person is well-known.
You'd think that 5-6 thousand posts of following the rules would actually give them a sense of what they are doing right.

 

[Mother Yeti]

*shrug* I just giggle whenever posters turn against a message board and get all solidarity-now-my-brothers. One of those perspective things, I guess. You can leave if you don't like the mods.

Ah nobody's turning against anything. This is just asking for answers. By the way you weren't pointing that leave suggestion at me, were you?

No, it was directed at Sir "I thought Escapist was LIBERAL and ANTI-AUTHORITARIAN but I guess I was WRONG" Shibito. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, kid.

Maybe I'm just super-perceptive and I didn't realize it, but I never had difficulty locating and reading the forum rules. They're the top post in every forum, and there's the Posting Guidelines link at the top of the page. Plus, when I joined I got a message that basically said "Here are the rules, read them." And the rules are hardly esoteric.

Transparency is one thing, but demanding to be babysat is another.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

To the folks saying that the mods shouldn't explain themselves, while I certainly understand that point of view, I'm personally very much in favor of transparency. People seem fond of believing mods and admins to be some Big Brothery overseer that acts on a whim -- far more difficult to uphold that view when we're perfectly happy to explain the rationale behind any decision. When folks understand, they're more content. I don't see a down side in that.

I have no qualms about explaining any decision I've made to anyone who asks -- but what I will not do is make a public spectacle of it. It's not productive, helpful, or necessary, and usually just stirs up more chaos than it prevents.

A fair and concise explanation. And with that, the fire is extinguished. Until someone charges in within the next 5 minutes without reading the discussions which have already taken place.

 

[fenrizz]

You'd think that 5-6 thousand posts of following the rules would actually give them a sense of what they are doing right.

Now that was sneaky, noticed it by coincidence.
Me like

 

[Jumplion]

I've seen plenty of these kinds of threads in my time here and I think it's time for me to put in a bit of my opinion into this matter.

I'm not going to pester the mods/staff here with questions like "Why was [insert name here] banned?" and "[insert name here] totaly didn't deserve that permaban!" because all that does is patronize them and make them more defensive (as humans usually are.....you are humans, right?)

I trust the mods to give fair punishmnet, and usually they are. Sometimes, however, yes they do get a bit trigger-happy with the banhammer. The biggest example I can think of was during "March Madness", because of the intensity between Turbine (last years winner) and everyone else people got probed/suspended/banned left and right for little things being snide about the other. Plenty of people got suspended, Indigo_Dingo among others, however sv_93 was permabanned for a post against another person when there was clearly worse offenders. In simple terms, there wasn't a single curse word in the post he was banned for while others were swearing like sailors and were let off with a 7-day suspention.

Obviously that made quite a rukus, I myself fought for his freedom, but overall it was just.....weird. As far as I knew sv_93 was never on probation, suspended, or anything before and all of a sudden this. Maybe he had some previous bad behavior that warranted it, I don't know but I wish I did.

All of this could easily be avoided if the mods/staff would just leave the reason for their probation/suspention/bannage. It shouldn't be too hard should it? Just a simple sentence or two edited into the post to detail a bit why the person was punished for the post. Certainly that can't be much to ask for, could it? You could leave out the obvious ones, but at least something for the questionable ones.

Now, I'm not trying to pester the mods/staff with this, this is just a suggestion (albiet a very very good suggestion), but to be honest at times it seems like you guys don't listen to us. I'll play devil's advocate here and say that hardly any of the suggestion is the "Suggestions and/or complaints for the Escapist?" thread is ever considered let alone responded to.

But in the end something has to be done or this site will tear itself apart. I've seen it happen a dozen times and it is not pretty at all.

(I'm sorry if I'm starting anything up again, but I read as much of the thread as I could before my brain told me to stop thinking...)