To the people who don't pirate: Is life really so bad?

[Falseprophet]

I download music to see if I like it. If I do, I will definitely support the band. After amassing a collection of over 400 CDs I stopped buying music entirely in the late 90s because I felt all the North American/British mainstream stuff of the time was crap. I started filesharing in 2001, and through that, I discovered indie and international acts I liked and I started buying CDs and going to concerts again.

I download TV because I don't have time to watch it when it's actually on. I can't make use of the legal streaming sites for most programs because often the content is restricted to residents of the US or UK. Those things are paid for by commercials or advertising which I'm not going to pay attention to anyway. I borrow movies and TV series from friends or the library, and the ones I like, I buy.

I will download media that I am prevented from buying by IP owners who clearly don't want my money. If something goes out of print and I can't easily track down a used copy, I'll download it. Or, I am perfectly willing to plunk down $20-$30 for Beauty and the Beast on DVD or Blu-Ray, but because of Disney's stupid seven-year vault policy, it won't be available for sale for a couple of years. If they're preventing willing customers from giving them money, is it any wonder some people turn to piracy?

 

[Anton P. Nym]

It's absolutely hypocritical to take a game without paying for it, and then justify the taking by saying you weren't going to pay for it anyway. It's especially mind-boggling because it's not even being taken out of desperation; it's a frickin' game. The world won't end if you don't play it.

But I wasn't going to pay for it. I don't think it's worth my money. I do, however, think it's worth the cost of time it takes me to download it. I really wouldn't buy most of the stuff, even if downloading didn't exist. And if there is no scenario in which I would otherwise have given them my money, how exactly are they losing the money I would never give them anyway?

Your position isn't a principled stand, it's an excuse. You do it because you want to, and then you rationalise it away because "no one gets hurt". (I don't accept that last part; I used to make a living in the games industry, and man does it hurt to see people making off with your brainchildren and abusing them horribly.)

Perhaps it's not stealing, but it is trespassing. The retail price goes to support the game industry; your "jumping the gate" means you aren't chipping in, making that support that tiny bit weaker. That means fewer games, developed more towards an eye to the mainstream, in the hopes that the less technically-adept will buy the games in-store. (And probably on consoles, by the by, where developers see less threat.)

So don't mind me if you find me crashed on your couch one day... after all, you said you're okay with that. (And if I find the door locked, well, that's just to keep out other people less skilled with metal and plastic.) Besides, I wasn't going to pay you rent anyway so it's a victimless crime.

-- Steve

 

[BladePHF]

This has been mentioned before in passing, but did you all know that every time you lend a DVD or music CD to a friend/family member/etc you are committing copy-right infringement? That's right, even the simple act of passing a CD to your siblings/parents/children that they did not buy is an illegal act.

When was the last time you turned in someone for the heinous copy-right infringing crime that is lending to a buddy? I certainly hope you did turned in all you know who did so, or else you are abiding criminals!

 

[lewa nua]

AS an Aspiring programmer... I HATE PIRACY. I HATE PIRATERS. You ARE stealing, the EULA grants you a license, (the license key only approves it) usually perpetual. Example, I made a program for law firms that I only asked $10 per copy. A law firm of about 50 copied it and gave it to other law firms so I ended up being owed $2000 dollars. You are stealing, you are in effect taking money away from the developers. People will pirate something thats costs them $2 and usually do. Great programs need great amounts of money to make.

 

[Symp4thy]

And no, they don't lose profit either. I've never given them my money, and I never had any intention to do so. "You can't lose what you do not have".

That's stupid logic. They certainly do lose profit. Let's say you make (read: steal) your copy of a $60 game. There is now 2 of said game out there for a total of $60, as opposed to the legal way where there would be 2 for a total of $120. You say you never had any intention to do so though. Well it doesn't matter what you intend, if you want a copy of the game you pay for it. That's the law, fella, like it or not. Otherwise you're just a loser sitting behind a computer stealing someone else's work that you obviously can't afford.

EDIT: That's a generalization btw, I'm not calling anyone specific a loser.

 

[Symp4thy]

This has been mentioned before in passing, but did you all know that every time you lend a DVD or music CD to a friend/family member/etc you are committing copy-right infringement? That's right, even the simple act of passing a CD to your siblings/parents/children that they did not buy is an illegal act.

That's only true if you charge them for it or you give it to them with the intent of them making a copy.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post. Didn't see this one until after I posted.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

This has been mentioned before in passing, but did you all know that every time you lend a DVD or music CD to a friend/family member/etc you are committing copy-right infringement? That's right, even the simple act of passing a CD to your siblings/parents/children that they did not buy is an illegal act.

False. Copyright only applies to the creation of copies. If you dupe the DVD/CD and pass the dupes around, then you're breaking the copyright law.

You can show a movie to a friend, or even lend him the DVD, without breaking any laws or EULAs. Now, if you decide to pop the DVD into a jumbo-projector and show it to a paying audience you'll run into trouble... but not loaning out the disk to a friend.

(Hey, you can even sell the disk to someone else... so long as you're not keeping a ripped copy of it for yourself. It's called "right of first sale".)

-- Steve

 

[fenrizz]

And no, they don't lose profit either. I've never given them my money, and I never had any intention to do so. "You can't lose what you do not have".

That's stupid logic. They certainly do lose profit. Let's say you make (read: steal) your copy of a $60 game. There is now 2 of said game out there for a total of $60, as opposed to the legal way where there would be 2 for a total of $120. You say you never had any intention to do so though. Well it doesn't matter what you intend, if you want a copy of the game you pay for it. That's the law, fella, like it or not. Otherwise you're just a loser sitting behind a computer stealing someone else's work that you obviously can't afford.

It ain't stealing, it's copying

 

[The_Prophet]

when a game costs 6000 Dinars (60euros, doesn't sound that much, but then again you don't live here) what should I do?
Buy a game once a year?
Personaly I don't pirate, I buy from them. To be completely honist.

 

[Nomad]

Perhaps it's not stealing [...]

There, got you to admit it's not stealing. Now I'm happy. It's a crime, yes, but it sure as hell isn't stealing (which is a completely different crime). Just like assault and murder are two different crimes.

That's stupid logic. They certainly do lose profit. Let's say you make (read: steal) your copy of a $60 game. There is now 2 of said game out there for a total of $60, as opposed to the legal way where there would be 2 for a total of $120. You say you never had any intention to do so though. Well it doesn't matter what you intend, if you want a copy of the game you pay for it. That's the law, fella, like it or not. Otherwise you're just a loser sitting behind a computer stealing someone else's work that you obviously can't afford.

No, it is not stupid logic. And no, they do not lose profit. If they sell 5 copies of something, and I copy one, they sell 5 copies. If they sell 5 copies of something, and I copy nothing, they sell 5 copies. Because just because I'm downloading something doesn't mean I'd buy it otherwise.

Now give me back the car you stole from me, you thief.

 

[Arachon]

I pirate occasionally, mostly in regard to my own ideologies, for example, I have no problem with pirating games from EA games, since I do not agree with some of their actions (for example bying Westwood Studios :/), but I don't pirate from Indie developers, and tend to bite the neck off any of my mates that does it. Another example is that I pirate all Dead Kennedys albums, I LOVE the band, but the record company that currently holds the rights to them have used some very questionable methods for obtaining them, and the re-formed Dead Kennedys are no longer representing what they once stood for.

 

[Zani]

Just see pirated games as a form of prolonged demo, I pirated CoD:WaW because I was tired of WW2 shooters but after I had played it through I wanted to play it online, so I bought it.

 

[Anton P. Nym]

Perhaps it's not stealing [...]

There, got you to admit it's not stealing. Now I'm happy. It's a crime, yes, but it sure as hell isn't stealing (which is a completely different crime). Just like assault and murder are two different crimes.

So, which one would you prefer to happen to you? (Me, I'd go for "none of the above" myself but you don't seem to be the abstaining type.)

It may not be stealing, but it is a crime and it's not victimless any more than jumping the turnstyles on the subway is.

-- Steve

 

[Symp4thy]

And no, they don't lose profit either. I've never given them my money, and I never had any intention to do so. "You can't lose what you do not have".

That's stupid logic. They certainly do lose profit. Let's say you make (read: steal) your copy of a $60 game. There is now 2 of said game out there for a total of $60, as opposed to the legal way where there would be 2 for a total of $120. You say you never had any intention to do so though. Well it doesn't matter what you intend, if you want a copy of the game you pay for it. That's the law, fella, like it or not. Otherwise you're just a loser sitting behind a computer stealing someone else's work that you obviously can't afford.

It ain't stealing, it's copying

Pronunciation:
\ˈstēl\
Function:
verb
: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice

Games/CDs/Movies aside from being physical property (i.e. the actual disk) are also intellectual property, and to obtain it without paying, winning, or any other legal means, is stealing.

 

[Faeanor]

I can't say pirating has ever weighed on my conscious heavier littering. Actually I probably care more about littering. That being said I don't pirate games anymore unless I can't find it anywhere else.

I don't think money is a big issue when it comes to why people pirate.

 

[BladePHF]

False. Copyright only applies to the creation of copies. If you dupe the DVD/CD and pass the dupes around, then you're breaking the copyright law.

You can show a movie to a friend, or even lend him the DVD, without breaking any laws or EULAs. Now, if you decide to pop the DVD into a jumbo-projector and show it to a paying audience you'll run into trouble... but not loaning out the disk to a friend.

(Hey, you can even sell the disk to someone else... so long as you're not keeping a ripped copy of it for yourself. It's called "right of first sale".)

-- Steve

Huh, odd, then why do all the DVDs and game cases I own have written in tiny print at the bottom of the back: "...blah blah... you cannot ...blah blah... rental, LENDING, [..]"?

Define "Lending", given the fact "renting" (what may be ostentatiously viewed as "lending for money") is already mentioned alongside.

And, to use your own style, the whole "right of first sale" is false. What more can we see in the fine-print at the back? [...], re-sale,[...]. Do ho ho ho, correct me if I'm wrong, as I often am, but doesn't what you said constitute re-sale?

@lewa nua: Good thing you said there

Great programs need great amounts of money to make.

, I wonder if a company that made a bad or mediocre game/music CD/program truly deserve to reap those kinds of people who never really bother to really go and read reviews about what they are getting into (and let's face it, most buyers don't have it as a habit on the one hand or are tricked by what you might "biased" review sites/magazines/etc on the other)...

 

[z121231211]

Unless you like watching fansubbed anime that's not out in America, piracy is very easy to avoid and it's also easy to resist the urge to do so.

I only pirate Animation from Japan, music, and anything I couldn't get without learning another language and importing.

 

[BladePHF]

Unless you like watching fansubbed anime that's not out in America, piracy is very easy to avoid and it's also easy to resist the urge to do so.

I only pirate Animation from Japan, music, and anything I couldn't get without learning another language and importing.

But going by what has been said before, isn't that just an excuse as well? It's like high ground one moment and then the next "Hey, it's really a bother for me to learn a language/import stuff, I guess I'm justified then!"...

Sorry if that sounded personal, I was given the impression that you (you in this case being the indeterminate "you" of everyone) were supposed to either be against pirating in all it's ways shapes and forms or for it and are therefore (by what seems to be the general tone set by the thread) scum. Again, not you per say, but the indeterminate pirate as established by the thread...

 

[deadlee0b1]

My personal view is that games are disgustingly over priced anyway. Where do developers and publishers get off charging $50 - $80 for games these days? For the most part a movie costs just as much, if not more to make and just as much man hours and time, but I'm only paying $15 - $20 for a DVD. I remember back in the day when an atari game cost $3.

And I really love the argument that if we keep on pirating games then the developers will stop making games because there will be no profit in it. I agree %100 and I think its a good thing. As long as there are computers, TV's and cameras, people will be making movies and computer games. And at least this way we will have people who are passionate about their work and who want to make something good, instead if the uninspired, uncreative corporate money whores churning shit through a sausage machine to give us the latest fad for the sole purpose of giving them a better bottom line.

So basically, I pirate not to get the software for free, but more as my way of sticking it to the man.

 

[I3uster]

I onyl pirate games with DRM.
They need to learn their lesson

Why is DRM around in the first place?

Because people do not udnerstand that it doesnt keep anyone from pirating their software and just pisses of honest consumers?