Today's Piracy report

[phoenix352]

I don't have the time to watch that video now but I will later.

I highly doubt it will change my opinion towards the idea that (in bold, for emphasis) taking something for free that you would have to pay for in a shop is not a bad thing.

I mean seriously, how do you justify that as morally right?

But yeah, I'll watch the video later and see what I think then.

I will strongly suggest the video for a few reasons:

Copying has been something that people have done since humans have been born. We've copied art to find out where herds went on the plains or in cold weather. We copied songs to give ourselves a common voice. We copy a number of things for culture and to add value to things that we enjoy.

What you say in bold, I would highly suggest that you reconsider on the grounds that there is more to the story than what you see in bold.

The video is worth the 18 minutes in finding out what can happen when people look at the opportunities given to them. Enjoy.

Ok, I'm watching the video now and typing about it as I hear stuff.

The first thing that pops out to me is that Trent Reznor has had a successful 18 year career with Nine Inch Nails before all of the stuff talked about here. If he was an artist starting off now in the manner shown in the video, would he be able to achieve the same level of fame? To me it seems all the artists who are successfully making this transition away from record labels have had long careers under said record labels. This doesn't seem to offer any suggestions about how new artists operate.

Also, I find it hard to take issue against the whole USB debacle because it was before the album came out, it was done by the artist himself and, in this case, I believe the RIAA behaved like a bunch of idiots. This isn't a particularly good way of defending downloading music. For all intents and purposes, music is paid for. That is why it is in shops (be that physical or internet based). That is the way the world currently works. If you download music without paying for it, you are denying these companies the money they deserve for making and providing a product. I call that stealing. How do you defend that? There are more people in the music industry that matter than just the artists themselves.

I notice that this video seems to be solely using Trent Reznor as an example. If this was a truly viable route for any artist, why are we not seeing more of this? I don't think using a single example as proof of something is a particularly bad idea.

Trent Reznor distributed his own music for free. This isn't a particularly good defence of downloading music. The artist himself is providing the distribution, which is perfectly acceptable as he own the rights to the music (not being connected to a record label anymore). This is a unique example that cannot be applied to the conventional model of music ownership, release and distribution and falls flat in explaining why downloading music is fundamentally a bad thing.

All that being said however, I do think Trent Reznor has had some great ideas with his music. It's just...can this really be applied to other avenues of music? Is it feasible for any artist to go down this path? It would be nice if it was but as of now, we have no idea. I guess we'll see what the future brings. It was an interesting video showing some very interesting ideas but I don't think it really applies to what you're trying to argue. This is more a commentary on how to work around illegal downloading rather than justifying it.

Finally, the guy giving the presentation states that this works for bands big and small. Where are the examples of the smaller bands?!

search an artist on youtube named Renard (nsrrenard). hes just one guy who is making by his own words a "comfortable" living while going by this basic model.he supports piracy because he knows that when people download your music and like it they are far more likely to buy something because they think your worth it. he has many albums and well over 300 songs free and paid and with a growing fan base of over 13k people i would say he is a good example that this works for small bands.

 

[Reed Spacer]

You want a good mash-up?


You don't have to thank me.

I've got a better one:

<a href=http://viprhealthcare.typepad.com/files/the-kleptones---this-song-smells-blur-vs.-nirvana.mp3>Blur vs. Nirvana: This Song Smells.

 

[Gindil]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

 

[VanityGirl]

You've just shown us mashups, which isn't actually piracy. YouTube isn't a viable source for download. What the people have done in the videos you've shown is copyright infringement.
I don't like seeing people make profit off of other people's work they stole.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Ah another piracy topic. These go well here.

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Geekosaurus]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

There is always a thread on the first page about piracy. There's only so much you can say, and I'm sick of seeing so many people trying to justify something that is not only illegal but quite obviously wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I started a thread every week that attempts to justify physical assault some of you might get a little annoyed.

 

[Treblaine]

I like solution of the iTunes link in the bottom.

That should be standard procedure: if you acknoledge you (1)don't own this work, (2)aren't making any money off this work, and (3)recommend people go out an buy the original work

... then there should be no grounds for a Cease and Desist Order.

I mean, Chrono Trigger is available on the Nintendo DS they could recommend they go out an buy that though many don't have a DS and only want to play CT on their PC. I don't get why Square-Enix is coming down so hard on PC ROM versions, unless if they actually sold a PC port of the game. What is stopping them? Does Nintendo partially own the Chrono Trigger IP and won't allow it to be released on anything but Nintendo? Apparently not with the (broken) PS1 port.

Come of SE, you've released games on PC before. Why not release a PC port of Chrono Trigger? Make it lightweight so it works on even netbooks. Hell, they could make an ad funded browser based version.

 

[Treblaine]

Ah another piracy topic. These go well here.

Spoiler

I hope you don't take Rapture as a prelude, look how that turned out.

 

[Gindil]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

There is always a thread on the first page about piracy. There's only so much you can say, and I'm sick of seeing so many people trying to justify something that is not only illegal but quite obviously wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I started a thread every week that attempts to justify physical assault some of you might get a little annoyed.

Seems you missed the point. *shrug*
I don't agree with your opinion. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread.

------------------------------------------------------

 

[Geekosaurus]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

There is always a thread on the first page about piracy. There's only so much you can say, and I'm sick of seeing so many people trying to justify something that is not only illegal but quite obviously wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I started a thread every week that attempts to justify physical assault some of you might get a little annoyed.

Seems you missed the point. *shrug*
I don't agree with your opinion. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread.

The point to your post was to tell me that my post had no point. I explained my post.

 

[xDarc]

I know all you kids think piracy is just awful and bemoan the sad state of the gaming industry... and link the two.

But let me tell you something, the gaming industry and piracy were both doing just fine... up until around the time the xbawks 360 came out. That's right, it wasn't piracy and the imaginary dollars that lost in some suit's wet dream that made everything go to shit.

 

[Gindil]

Today is a look at a few games I thought might be great to view.

First is Cave Story:

It's available on the Wii, but you can still get it on the PC for the low, low price of free. This is a game I actually like and it's amazing how the Wii version came about because of the dedication of Pixel's fans.

Piracy has affected this game in a great way. People shared it to the point that everyone and their mother knows about Cave Story be it the music, the gameplay, etc.

Pixel got inspiration from Metroid among other games, but the game plays like nothing people have ever seen. You have a variety of weapons, various ways to play, and a story that adapts organically to the choices you make.

Then, people have taken that and put the game on the Wii with Pixel included. The most awesome thing? Not one person sued.

------------------------------------------

Next is probably the one game everyone knows quite well. I don't know how popular the original material is but if I were to show this:


EVERYONE knows the game I'm discussing.

If you don't know this:

Go. Play. NOW!

Or just start here and pray for your sanity and that of the people playing:

 

[darkcommanderq]

Square just lost points in my eyes. That fan made game was pretty awesome. Its not like they stole Squares code, they just reused some of there sprites.

yeah yeah blah blah its there art etc, fine I get it, they still own the sprites. That does not change the fact that they destroyed a work of art themselves.

Do you know were copyrights came from in the first place? They were put in place to prevent factories in the industrial age from stealing inventors designs and using them w/o paying the inventor. AKA, to PROTECT the little guy. Copyrights are now being used by the BIG guys to SQUISH the little guys that are showing there appreciation for the BIG guys work by making a parody game out of it.

If they were going to sell the game that would be one thing. But some little fanmade JRPG parody game IN 2D is not going to hurt the sales of any of squares current projects these days.

 

[Gindil]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

There is always a thread on the first page about piracy. There's only so much you can say, and I'm sick of seeing so many people trying to justify something that is not only illegal but quite obviously wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I started a thread every week that attempts to justify physical assault some of you might get a little annoyed.

Seems you missed the point. *shrug*
I don't agree with your opinion. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread.

The point to your post was to tell me that my post had no point. I explained my post.

Actually, no, that isn't explaining anything.

What my post and exasperated sigh was about is your bigoted opinion. You deride piracy and yet you won't change your mind or look at newer evidence because it conflicts with your own personal belief. More power to ya.

But then that wasn't the point of this thread where I do explain [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.258389-Todays-Piracy-report?page=2#9744383] to someone else what others can do. So it really isn't a "justification" thread regardless of what you think of the matter.

Then, you conflate piracy to physical assault on a public forum. Last I checked there are TWO 2nd Amendment threads on the first page. So someone who has a problem with the 2nd Amendment would probably have a problem with a topic of over 30 pages.

First, the two aren't related. As I've explained before, you have your belief pretty set, so really there was no point except to try to deride this into a negative view. I can't stop you from doing what you want, I'm just calling out the behavior that I see.

I won't be posting to you again based on this analysis. It just disappoints me that you won't actually find evidence for your position and have to resort to an appeal to ethos where your logic may perhaps be flawed.

 

[Geekosaurus]

So this is going to be a massive 'lets all justify piracy' thread? Wonderful.

*sigh*
Is there a point to your post? All you seem to want is to have a "holier-than-thou" attitude. Last I checked, you won't change your mind about piracy, you aren't open to debate, and this adds nothing to the conversation, especially regarding how your viewpoint is right/wrong.

You are free to express yourself however you feel but it would be appreciable if you would add substance.

There is always a thread on the first page about piracy. There's only so much you can say, and I'm sick of seeing so many people trying to justify something that is not only illegal but quite obviously wrong. I'm fairly certain that if I started a thread every week that attempts to justify physical assault some of you might get a little annoyed.

Seems you missed the point. *shrug*
I don't agree with your opinion. Thanks for stopping by. Hope you enjoy the rest of the thread.

The point to your post was to tell me that my post had no point. I explained my post.

Actually, no, that isn't explaining anything.

What my post and exasperated sigh was about is your bigoted opinion. You deride piracy and yet you won't change your mind or look at newer evidence because it conflicts with your own personal belief. More power to ya.

But then that wasn't the point of this thread where I do explain [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.258389-Todays-Piracy-report?page=2#9744383] to someone else what others can do. So it really isn't a "justification" thread regardless of what you think of the matter.

Then, you conflate piracy to physical assault on a public forum. Last I checked there are TWO 2nd Amendment threads on the first page. So someone who has a problem with the 2nd Amendment would probably have a problem with a topic of over 30 pages.

First, the two aren't related. As I've explained before, you have your belief pretty set, so really there was no point except to try to deride this into a negative view. I can't stop you from doing what you want, I'm just calling out the behavior that I see.

I won't be posting to you again based on this analysis. It just disappoints me that you won't actually find evidence for your position and have to resort to an appeal to ethos where your logic may perhaps be flawed.

You're right, I have no evidence to support my dislike towards piracy. Oh, wait, yes I do - it's morally wrong and illegal.

 

[Gindil]

You're right, I have no evidence to support my dislike towards piracy. Oh, wait, yes I do - it's morally wrong and illegal.

Alright [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning]. Have a nice day.

-Edit- Obviously, Geekosaurus refuses to answer any questions and we've had this discussion start at the same place as last time with his personal belief in piracy being morally wrong and illegal. Rather than answer the questions I've put up, he continues to merely stomp his foot around like a child and try to say "I'm better than the rest of the world."

So yes, I did promise that I wouldn't respond to him anymore, and it seems I can keep my promise with no regrets. Should he ever choose to respond to the valid reasons given about piracy, I'll be more than happy to debate. Until then, I'll hope he finds a better answer than the one below.

 

[Geekosaurus]

You're right, I have no evidence to support my dislike towards piracy. Oh, wait, yes I do - it's morally wrong and illegal.

Alright [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning]. Have a nice day.

My opinion isn't based on assumption so that doesn't really stand. Piracy is illegal. That's just a fact. As for it being morally wrong, morals are based on personality and opinion. It just happens that my moral compass aligns with the law. So that was a nice use of Wikipedia, but I'm afraid it stands for nothing.

 

[Gindil]

Link [http://www.opcoder.com/projects/chrono/]

This was another project shut down by Square in 1999.

The reason was because someone actually had the audacity to make Crono Trigger into the 3D realm. For a CT invention, they got the style pretty damn accurately.


The walking animation needed some work. Even if they were imitating the sprites of CT, it just looked lopsided as they were continuing the animation.

I'm not sure of the exact reasoning on this one as I was with Crimson Echoes.

Still, as you can view the other videos on the left, this is yet another example of the complexity of copyright law preventing progress.

Ah another piracy topic. These go well here.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm taking that and putting them in the first post.

 

[Gindil]

Today is a look at The Silver Lining.

Sometimes, a work gets notoriety because of the fact that it gets shut down. TSL [http://www.tsl-game.com/] is all about continuing the threads of story from King's Quest and giving them closure.

I may have never played a King's Quest game so I won't be able to do it justice. Still, it's another game that was damn near shut down when its resources were supposed to be destroyed through copyright infringement.