Todd Howard, Skyrim Dev, thinks COD is 'hardcore'.

[veloper]

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

What is actually the point of that video? Is it supposed to prove some point or was it just completely random?

I think it demonstrates a very clear point, i.e. that CoD has become little more than a movie that you get to watch. And if that is a "hardcore" gameplay experience then that is a very sad state of affairs.

I saw this in another thread and it seemed appropriate:

​

If CoD is hardcore then we're all doomed. Sure CoD isn't an ultra accessible browser game, but its about as far from "hardcore" as a AAA game can get without being Wii sports.

You want hardcore go play ARMA2 or X3 or Europa universalis or Morrowind.

That vid is just single player, so that's not a fair argument. Hardcore refers to multiplayer and there skill does matter.

It takes top players alot of time and effort to get there and to stay on top, so it's not so crazy to call multiplayer COD hardcore gaming.
While I can think of much harder games, if you consider even Morrowind hardcore, then alot of games are hardcore.

Hardcore does not refer to the intrinsic difficulty of a game, if that's what you're referring to you would say that the difficulty is hardcore.. by saying a game is hardcore we are in fact talking about such things as complexity, learning curve, skill factor, and depth of gameplay mechanics.

Also I'm not sure I buy the idea of a game being "hardcore" on the basis of its multiplayer aspect... after all pretty much any game with multiplayer can be taken to a certain level competitively and that experience will always be "hardcore", however that is an aspect of the nature of multiplayer in general and not necessarily the game itself.

This is true, but why then did you put Morrowind forward as hardcore?

It doesn't have a particular steep or high learning curve. After you learn the basics, you just work your way towards lvl20. I can only see how players may stumble around until Balmora. After Balmora it should be smooth sailing.
Skill factor even less. Just press LMB to attack.
The only gameplay depth is an obtuse leveling system.

As for multiplayer, most hardcore games are multiplayer, because human adversaries are better than AIs.
Starcraft is the prime example of a hardcore game, but that's only for the multiplayer, not the campaign.
A hardcore single player game would be something like Dwarf Fortress.

 

[Continuity]

This is true, but why then did you put Morrowind forward as hardcore?

It doesn't have a particular steep or high learning curve. After you learn the basics, you just work your way towards lvl20. I can only see how players may stumble around until Balmora. After Balmora it should be smooth sailing.
Skill factor even less. Just press LMB to attack.
The only gameplay depth is an obtuse leveling system.

As for multiplayer, most hardcore games are multiplayer, because human adversaries are better than AIs.
Starcraft is the prime example of a hardcore game, but that's only for the multiplayer, not the campaign.
A hardcore single player game would be something like Dwarf Fortress.

True, true... but I think there is a sliding scale. At the ultra hardcore end of the scale we have dwarf fortress, Europa Universalis 3, X3 etc. but that scale does come all the way down to a game like morrowind, who's size and multitude of options plus lack of a clear hand-held path do move it into the hardcore realm.
At any rate it is certainly a gamer's game, i.e. a game that only a gamer would play, a casual player would be pretty unlikely to give a game like morrowind the time investment it needs to make headway.

 

[Suicida1 Midget]

Simply put i wont toss any hate or lolz just cod is a CORE game. Cause of idiots like this ppl forget hardcore is the guy who plays a huge variety of games. Guess i have to put some hate in FCK the casual gamer.(look up what u type before using gammer slang)

 

[Thanatos5150]

...Who the hell is Todd Howard?

OT: I don't know if making classes and choosing perks can be considered rpg elements. I haven't played any of the recent Cod games but I would imagine that creating classes in it is just choosing which guns you want to use, but i'm probably way off. I don't know, maybe he's right.

You earn experience and level up, gain new weapons and skills, etc. Voila. RPG elements.

RPG = Role Playing Game, upgrading your weapons and changing perks does not make you a role player, role playing would be barking commands and positions at people, calling people by tactical names and planning how to deal with every possible tactic,

eg: RP Realms on WoW,

This Mr.Todd is obviously not a player of COD nor has he experienced its genre, He would do best to keep his thoughts inside his little elder scrolls world.

[Poster's Note: Minor Grammar fix in the quoted text. Homonyms can be confusing, I know.]

Oh, yeah! SOCOM (1) was the ultimate RPG! You spent half that game holding down the "Command" button and yelling things like "Bravo, Bang and Clear on my target!" or "Able, Disarm!" or "Boomer, Frag on my target!" and then cursing when Boomer actually hit the nearby wall and killed everyone in the room. Good times.

Oh, man, and Dawn of War! Isn't that an Awesome RPG? Moving your little Imperial Guardsmen around in discreet little detachments and squads. Truly amazing role-playing stuff. Of course, I didn't actually "Bark" and orders so much as right-clicked a lot, but, hey, it's hard to put voice commands in a game with four to nine factions, depending on expansion packs, and they HAVE to have an interface for the console 'tards who can't figure out how to use a headset mic - oh, and those people who don't HAVE a headset mic? You're part of the problem.

Now, I hear people saying things like "Morrowind" and "Oblivion" are RPGs! How wrong theyare! You're all alone for the most part, and there's no way to order whatever followers you may or may not have at any given point in the game around! Gah! Sure, I get loot tables and the ability to equip gear for maximum fun and slaughter on my own, but the AI doesn't know what a "flanking" tactic is! They tend to settle into one rhythm per enemy type and stick to it! There's no differing strategies or adaption needed! Just spam RT/R2/LMB until it falls down and loot the corpse! Booooooooooooring!

[This has been a Sarcastic Thanatos Production.]

 

[Legion IV]

To be fair, you don't see people's mothers going off to play CoD so it's not really a casual gamer thing.

Oh wait! My mom plays CoD online! (seriously)
Please tell me I proved him wrong!

My friends mom is no normal mom oh no. She beat the entire Metal gear series, the doom series, duke nukem, Zelda. Think of EVERY game you've bought and now when your gone and your mom has a day off shes beating them all. She never even really mentioned it to us. She just beat games, any and all games her son bought.

Dont mess around with moms lol.

the worst part is he'd buy a new game and shed beat it before him.

 

[Frotality]

i think he's pointing out that CoD is popular in part due to the elements it took from RPGs; as in there is a market for RPGs and RPG players; this is actually a sort of counter to the dreaded concept of streamlining: even a game as simplistically popular as CoD takes from fairly "hardcore" RPG elements.


seriously though, RPG designers need to learn how to word themselves better, pretty much every statement made about a modern RPG, be it from bioware or bethesda, comes off as "fuck you, original fanbase!" at first glance.

 

[Ytinasni]

Wow. People in this thread are actually angry about this. I don't even play Call of Duty and...well, I feel nothing about this.

this.

on topic:
no its not an rpg, yes it has rpg elements.

 

[Mark Flanagan]

Wasn't he using the term 'Hardcore' as a replacement for the word awesome/good/whatever?

As in "Wow Skyrim is looking hardcore!"

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

seriously though, RPG designers need to learn how to word themselves better, pretty much every statement made about a modern RPG, be it from bioware or bethesda, comes off as "fuck you, original fanbase!" at first glance.

Tbh that pretty much wraps up why I put it here, with the recent climate of worry it just seemed like such a terrible thing to say. Even if COD is hardcore (who am I to judge) and it's merely Mr Howard's opinion, I think there are maybe TES fan who would say...um...'Why is he saying that!?!?' and panic.

To me it just seems so ill advised.