Tokyo Mirage Sessons getting good reviews for being a niche JRPG.

[LawAndChaos]

Snip

Well honestly I was just making up ludicrous bullshit to begin with, mostly because I've seen how the game plays and it's silly asf.

'Persona'-ly as someone who wouldn't have minded seeing a tactical RPG from both of the teams combined in the end I was well aware that ATLUS was the only ones devving the game, and as far as I can see it's apparent that the game is a HUGE swing away from the initial concept.

So in the end they scrapped the crossover for a new IP, based on Idol culture.
And yeah, okay, minor cameos, sure, I guess those count.
Minor, 'you have to look for them or you'll miss them' cameos. Oh and easter egg references, can't forget those.

Erika and Ephiram ain't anywhere in this game, nor is Joshua, (because I know it in my heart that no one remembers Sacred Stones) and I bet Ike will probably make a minor appearance since he's in smash and is super popular, although I doubt Roy will.

I don't think gameplay wise that the game will suck, but it puts me off with all the j-pop and Idol culture referencing and everything...plus I recognized only Shadow Dragon and Awakening characters among a large part of the main cast, so it's clear they decided to go the easy route of using only their iconic first game and the game that revived the franchise.

All fine and good, I guess. *shrug*

I feel dirty for saying this but... Cool story.

Thanks bruh. Glad you enjoyed it.

Because that's literally all that is, a story you've concocted out of your mindhole. Shit, it's so baseless that it's not even a theory.

Oh no, my secret is out, the jig is up! I guess I'm going to internet jail.

The companies kind of worked together, but there was only ever going to be a singular development team.

Well there's Intelligent Systems, and ATLUS, and obviously one is going to do the advice while the other devs.
ATLUS won out on this, but the crossover concept was scrapped for a new IP that makes lots of little itty bitty references and utilizes Fire Emblem's 'main' games as the focus, those being Awakening and Shadow Dragon.

So obviously, ATLUS got to dev. Now what do they do? Retread Persona's combat system.
The problem I have with this is that if I wanted Persona I'd wait for Persona 5.

A lot of the distinct differences is that they made some modifications to the Persona system by making it more...euuugh, it's hard for me to describe...combo-y, I think? Then there are the team attacks as well where characters can execute special attacks in a pair.

Not gonna argue about the censorship cuz honestly at this point it's the norm, and besides Tharja needed some pants on her anyway.

Seriously who the hell goes out in underwear to sing?

At the end of the day, this is an MT game featuring Fire Emblem characters. And despite it apparently being a great game, some closed minded people are irrationally negative about it.

I'm sorry I offended you with my cynicism.

Look, when I look at the game, I have doubts it will do well. Maybe it's a solid game, maybe not.
But the look of it is, in my opinion, incredibly cringe-y and "extremely anime."
In addition there are a fuckton of very salty folks who were hoping for an actual crossover rather than this easter egg minor cameo ridden...thing.

I'm not being negative, more cynical than anything. Regardless of how I personally feel about the game I don't predict high sales. Maybe I'm wrong and the ATLUS and IS loyals will keep it afloat.

All I have to say is:

FIYAAAAAA EMBUREM~

 

[LawAndChaos]

and by the way, you realize that there are about 4 games based around Marth, right? Shadow Dragon is literally just a remake.

Eh, I just find it easier to refer to Shadow Dragon since it and the game it's a remake of still have the same characters.

Also, actual crossover lol.

The only characters are original generation characters and Fire Emblem characters.

This is not an MT game with Fire Emblem characters, this is an ATLUS game with Fire Emblem characters.

Unless you can find me a character from ANY of the MT games that plays a major role in the story in ANY way beyond being a 'look or you'll miss it cameo.'

And seriously, this isn't me bashing the game, because calling it a crossover only gives ammo to the people salty about it not being a crossover. It was dumb for Nintendo to market it as a crossover because that only made people who were salty about it even more vitriolic.

Creative-wise I feel that it would also benefit more from pushing itself as a new sort of series instead. If they get a sequel going I'll go for it, since it will be more likely to have more characters from the wider ranges of games, so long as this first game sells.

That being said I'm cynical that it will sell well or that a collaboration like this will happen again.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

It is an actual crossover. It's an MT game featuring Fire Emblem characters.

and by the way, you realize that there are about 4 games based around Marth, right? Shadow Dragon is literally just a remake.

That is the interesting thing about these crossover titles Nintendo has been doing. They realized a long time ago that games can crossover in ways other than characters and narrative which is why we have these juxtapositions with genre because genre in terms of gaming means more than just setting. And that's why for games crossovers should be as loony as possible in order to figure out how to bring together two very different titles.

 

[LawAndChaos]

*sigh*. It's a game which is placeable within the Megami Tensei IP (in the same way Persona is), that features Fire Emblem characters. It's a crossover.

I love that derogatorily condescending *sigh*

Very edgy.

So crossover means "placeable within the Megami Tensei IP"
Good to know.

And I would like to point out as well that you can say what you will but when the serial numbers are filed off it's "placeable within the Megami Tensei IP" is a pretty big stretch to declaring it a crossover.

They took the gameplay elements and themes from one game, characters from another, and crossed them over.

Didn't realize pop idols and creative energy was a common theme in SMT.

Or Fire Emblem.

Look it's a collaboration, an original work produced by two individual parties integrating their own styles into the work. You can call it that if you want. But crossover is stretching it.

Just because you use the wording "crossed them over" doesn't make it a crossover, unless you want to categorize the term to mean something other than the general use of the term crossover (as in, crossing over two separate universes and their characters) to "gameplay crossover," "mechanical crossover," or "genre crossover" or something.

Calling it "an ATLUS game" implies that Megami Tensei is the only IP that they're responsible for. I don't see any Catherine gameplay in TMS

Calling it an ATLUS game implies that they're utilizing the style fans are familiar with and that ATLUS is responsible for. In this case an RPG system not dissimilar to Persona, with the press turn system from SMT 3, and a likely difficulty to match, with a emphasis on more complex RPG game-play than the usual fare. To this end it's likely going to be a solid game.
I still stand by that it has a good chance of not doing as well as it could.

I don't get why you're overtly confrontational, since I never at one point said the game was bad or going to be bad. I merely said it wasn't going to do very well sales wise.

People aren't salty that it's "not a crossover". People are salty it's not what they expected.

And what they expected was a crossover.
Even if by your definition they got a crossover, it was purely a development and gameplay one rather than a crossover of two IPs, as most salty fans hoped.

 

[LawAndChaos]

Etc. etc,

What fans expected was absolute fanservice and empty catering so they could squee at characters they like.

What fans got was a slice of life idol anime slapped together with a magical girl anime.

Mechanically you can say it was well thought out because ATLUS often has pretty good quality games.

But no, it's not a crossover, lest ye redefine crossover.
Again...

The traditional crossover is by definition the mingling of two or more franchises and their characters, akin to something like project X Zone

And no, it's apparent the game was intending to be its own game. To claim it a crossover only serves to give it a disservice by claiming it is something it isn't and reinforcing the idea that it was supposed to be "SMT x Fire Emblem" rather than "Tokyo Mirage Sessions."

Regardless of how you redefine crossover, my point still stands that the game itself will not be able to be judged on its own merits if people cannot get past the notion that it is supposed to be "SMT x Fire Emblem."

Referring to it as a crossover is inaccurate as well as perpetuating negative perceptions considering they did not meet people's expectations.

Oh and don't thumb your nose at pandering to a fanbase. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with fanservice. It is when it reaches excess that it becomes a problem.

That being said, you're talking hypotheticals. You don't know what SMT x Fire Emblem would've been like had it been a straight crossover. That's not what we got, so don't claim "oh it would've been bad if they went that route anyway." I never claimed SMT x Fire Emblem would've been better, so it's only fair we not go the other way either.

I'm looking at what we got, and what it is.
And a crossover it is not.

 

[DarklordKyo]

Good for the game but its quality was never the issue. The main themes of idols and high schools just turn me off and I can't really recognize the Fire emblem. I'm hearing the SMT fans also can't see their series in it.

The Fire Emblem aspects take the form of Fire Emblem characters being some of the Mirages, the Weapon Triangle being used, and the main character speaking (among other things). The SMT aspects involve, among other things, the SMT spells being used, the fact that it's a standard Turn-Based RPG combat-wise, and, to a lesser extent, the Mirage characters in the main party being spirits that empower the protagonists (due to being an element of the Persona series instead of mainline SMT).

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

The Fire Emblem aspects take the form of Fire Emblem characters being some of the Mirages, the Weapon Triangle being used, and the main character speaking (among other things). The SMT aspects involve, among other things, the SMT spells being used, the fact that it's a standard Turn-Based RPG combat-wise, and, to a lesser extent, the Mirage characters in the main party being spirits that empower the protagonists (due to being an element of the Persona series instead of mainline SMT).

Another interesting thing is that the Carnage Unity is clearly meant to be the Demon Fusion but with weapons instead of demons. Of course the thing is what people clearly aren't getting is that the idea of this wasn't to just cross over SMT and FE. That's boring, that's lazy. It's why the spin-offs of SMT (Persona, Devil Survivor, Digital Devil Saga, and Devil Summoner) actually have very little to do with the mainline titles whether it be gameplay (Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner), setting (DDS), or tone (Persona). In fact most of their connections to SMT are pretty superficial which doesn't make them much different from TMS. And it indicates to me that people complaining aren't paying as much attention to SMT as they claim. Heck, it's why most of them didn't use "Shin Megami Tensei" in their title but instead used "Megami Ibunroku" to indicate some connection, but indirectly and loosely which is why TMS uses Genei Ibunroku in its Japanese title. If you're not going to do anything radical with it and just be more SMT you're redundant. The idea is to make something NEW and they did that with TMS. Which is the point of videogame crossovers because they can cross over something vastly different from setting and characters with gameplay.

 

[Musou Sadie]

Would have bought it day 1 if it wouldn't have been nincensored, but Nincenso of Fuckmerica is fucking retarded, also sexist and racist towards japanese culture, they should be shut down and put in jail for racism.

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I've played the game for nearly 3 hours at this point and I kinda wish there were subtitles for what's being said in battle. There were a couple of cutscenes where subtitles didn't seem to want to pop up either which was a bit annoying but overall I was going to play this with the Japanese voices anyway. As for the game part of the game, this is exactly what I want out of JRPGs. I like the turn-based combat, I like the combo feature, I like the idea that idols are secretly trying to protect the planet. I tried to keep away from story details so I'm holding out hope that either A; The game turns into J-pop/J-rock stars vs well known demons from folklore/religion etc or B; the game turns into J-Pop/J-Rock stars vs evil, corrupted J-Pop/J-Rock stars. I want the final boss to be a corrupt Demon Kagure or some kind of evil demi-God Gackt.

 

[FalloutJack]

Oh, an Atlus game! Shame it's on the Wii-U. I'm never getting one of those.

 

[LawAndChaos]

Well.. It is a crossover. Despite you trying to redefine crossover.

Now it's my turn to sigh.

A crossover is the placement of two or more otherwise discrete fictional characters, settings, or universes into the context of a single story. They can arise from legal agreements between the relevant copyright holders, unauthorized efforts by fans or common corporate ownership.

This is the first definition I get for the term crossover referring to works of fiction.

Before you even argue the universes bit, I would like to point out references to the SMT universe are pretty much cursory at best, mostly being items and spell names.

At which point the typical response will likely be "aha gotcha it's a crossover" for something as simple as items and spells.

However the universe of TMS cannot be a crossover, because it is an original universe.

There are no pre-established universes from SMT that are present here. We see some aspects found in SMT in the game, but nothing consistent with any SMT universe, except maybe DDS, but it's unlikely that anything like that is referenced here.

Now the notion of it being a Fire Emblem universe is a possibility, seeing as a majority of the cast are from Fire Emblem (at least the Performa are) and Tiki is still around (even though she's a kid again for some reason) so we can say this is most certainly a Fire Emblem universe.

The problem is that there is little to no prominent displays of SMT presence within the game beyond stuff that's there purely for gameplay and mechanics. Items and Spells, and gameplay. That's it.

It is not a crossover, because from a narrative standpoint there is barely anything present that can establish it as an SMT universe.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

There's already a decensor patch out for this so its no surprise its doing well. Unlike the fans who don't really mind censoring, the people who really do love games actually put some work in it lol.

There's a lot more altered dialogue that only serves to make the game more kiddie and serves no localization use than just costumes and pantyshadows it seems, too.


Though the onsen dlc seems japan-only still.

 

[CritialGaming]

I'm glad to see Wii U owners getting another good game that is a bit different from Mario 27x or Yoshi's pulsating back sore. There may be some more life in that console before getting flattened by the NX.

Actually I'm thinking of picking up a Wii U to complete my collection of this generation's disappointments. And I really wanna play Xenoblade.