Tokyo's Anti-Loli Bill has Passed in Committee.

[Soviet Heavy]

Would you rather lolicon be banned and the likely possibility those individuals whom like it go to real child pornography instead? In which actually harms real individuals, and not fictional, unrealistic looking characters?

I don't see how this will hold up considering that people have been making the argument that looking at loli will somehow make people into pedophiles.

So, at once people protesting this bill are saying that watching loli doesn't make them a pedophile, but take it away and they will become one?

 

[MaxwellEdison]

Why?
Seriously, just because it's sick as fuck doesn't mean it should be banned. You're (presumably) a big girl/boy now. Avert your eyes and stop whining.

 

[Bloodstain]

a loli image is clearly designed for the viewer to get off on, and should (in my opinion) not have any right to exist.

As someone who has a fetish for lolicon...HOW DARE THEY?!
I would like you to elaborate. Why?

Why, you ask? Because it's depicting a CHILD getting raped! You could make all of the arguments that you want about how it isn't real, or that nobody is getting hurt, but it doesn't change the fact that it is offensive and wrong.

You obviously don't know much about lolicon. There is a hell of a lot of lolicon in which the child isn't raped, she (lolicon is about girls, shotacon about boys) wants to have intercourse. This trust is a fundamental part of lolicon's appeal.

Anyhow, yes, I will make all the arguments I want about how it's not real. Why is child abuse wrong? Yes, because children are hurt and traumatized forever. Lolicon, however, is drawn by adults for adults and shouldn't be looked at by children. Moreover, looking at lolicon may even help control the urges of someone who has that kind of interest in children.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a pedophile (which, by the way, focuses on the love towards children, not sex exclusively). I'm in love with a girl of my age.

You call it "offensive" and "wrong". But who decides what's offensive/wrong and what isn't? What offends you, may not offend me, and vice versa. Being offended is subjective. It has everything to do with you as an individual, or a collective, or a group, or a society, or a community, your moral conditioning, your religious beliefs. And you want to make laws about this, taking the right to exist from something? (Yeah, a slightly changed quote by Steve Hughes, it just fit in perfectly)
Just because some people say something's wrong, it doesn't mean it objectively is. Even if the majority of people says so. There is no "wrong" or "right", there are just opinions. To give an example: In ancient Greek, love towards young boys was perfectly normal, it was even honored. Nowadays it's frowned upon. Who knows, maybe in a few decades, lolicon (or an equivalent) is perfectly normal? Since you can't be sure about that, there is no way to judge.

Of course, as you stated in your original post, it's just your opinion. I just wanted you to think about this.

 

[Kaboose the Moose]

Thank fuck!

Can I just say, that Japan has some really, really, really disturbing fetishes on their shelves. RapeLay [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RapeLay] is one just example.

I am all for the freedom of expression/speech...but you can go too far. Japan has a history of flirting with the border of sanity with this kind of shit and I am glad that this bill passed.

If you are reading this Japan, I am happy that you have matured a lot in my eyes.

Have you ever even played rapelay.....

It's about as sick as a crudely drawn stick figure.

Funny how most people disagree but if your experience was different, well then, I guess that's that!

Thank fuck!



I am all for the freedom of expression/speech...but you can go too far.

You sir , are a fool.

The whole point of freedom of speech and expression is that nobody has the right to tell you what is going too far.

For more than half the pages I have explained why infringing some liberties are worth it. Since I have no intention of repeating myself more than twice, if you really want to know how I qualified that statement, read my other posts.

 

[ProtoChimp]

I don't get the whole loli thing. Seriously what the fuck is a lolita, SIMPLIFY IT PLEASE!

Lolitas Complex is a mental issue where a person feels a sexual impulse at the sight of underage girls. It overlaps a bit with pedophilia.

Lolicon, abbreviated Loli, is the term used to coin a certain genre of Japanese Hentai, where the girls in question are underage in sexually explicit acts.

er, wha- why-, ow, my brains cells just commited suiciiiiiiiiiiiiii--

 

[roostuf]

Oh thank fucking christ! Now like many of you i don't mind a bit of japanese adult entertainment now and then but it literally jumping out of nowhere at you when all you want to is try and find out how to draw anime properly.

Well hopefully this is a new beginning for internet history: the era of no surprise Hentai buttsecs out of fucking nowhere.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

I don't get the whole loli thing. Seriously what the fuck is a lolita, SIMPLIFY IT PLEASE!

Lolitas Complex is a mental issue where a person feels a sexual impulse at the sight of underage girls. It overlaps a bit with pedophilia.

Lolicon, abbreviated Loli, is the term used to coin a certain genre of Japanese Hentai, where the girls in question are underage in sexually explicit acts.

er, wha- why-, ow, my brains cells just commited suiciiiiiiiiiiiiii--

Yep. Lovely isn't it?

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Would you rather lolicon be banned and the likely possibility those individuals whom like it go to real child pornography instead? In which actually harms real individuals, and not fictional, unrealistic looking characters?

I don't see how this will hold up considering that people have been making the argument that looking at loli will somehow make people into pedophiles.

So, at once people protesting this bill are saying that watching loli doesn't make them a pedophile, but take it away and they will become one?

I would respond in my own words, but Father Time ninja'd me first with his response, apparently.

 

[mrwoo6]

That's really low, even for a closed-minded bigot.
I'm not questioning your right to exist.

Well, I guess it's only fair that Japan censor the hell out of anime and manga seeing as they love the US and their crazy policies so much. It only took them what, 50+ years to catch up to McCarthyism and The Comics Code, maybe in a few more decades they'll try to ban video games...

I'm a bigot for opposing media depicting underage women get violated? How does that work, exactly. Also, I'm running out of euphemisms for "intercourse".

Because you know shit-all about the actual bill and are running your mouth as if you're the authority on it, that's why you're a bigot.
This is not an "anti-loli" bill, so get off your high-horse; it was already defeated in June when it *was* an "anti-loli" bill... or more specifically when its stated goal was protection for ?nonexistent youth.?
Since that time, the bill has been reworded, but it is basically the same beast it was back then. What the bill, that passed, basically does is allow the Tokyo governing body to extend sweeping and gratuitous power to the people that deem whether anything that is too sexually stimulating for minors OR too sadistic for minors OR too likely to cause criminal acts among minors OR cause suicide among minors as ?harmful material?.
This is not a ban, but what this bill does is affords the uptight moral crusaders in office godlike powers to label anything (that isn't live-action) as inappropriate for minors, which is basically the same as the ESRB giving a game an AO rating in the States.

I must say this, sir.

Well done, well said.

 

[zama174]

While I don't disagree with you, OP, why doesn't Loli have a right to exist? Because you find it disgusting?

no, because loli is essentially child porn (tho often in an animated form). being it is essentially animated child porn, that means it is essentially encouraging pedophilia, which is essentially encouraging a form of rape in some cases

http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=https://blogs.emory.edu/animec/files/2010/08/kaichou-wa-maid-20-37.jpg Your right.. Because that makes me want to go screw every little kid walking down the street..... Just like all my video games make me want to kill people and hijack planes.

flatchested teenagers are not what is constituted as loli

By the way, that character in the picture isn't a girl, but its still the same

I know.. Just figured I'd throw him a curve ball..

 

[zama174]

While I don't disagree with you, OP, why doesn't Loli have a right to exist? Because you find it disgusting?

no, because loli is essentially child porn (tho often in an animated form). being it is essentially animated child porn, that means it is essentially encouraging pedophilia, which is essentially encouraging a form of rape in some cases

http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=https://blogs.emory.edu/animec/files/2010/08/kaichou-wa-maid-20-37.jpg Your right.. Because that makes me want to go screw every little kid walking down the street..... Just like all my video games make me want to kill people and hijack planes.

flatchested teenagers are not what is constituted as loli

Yes that is exactly what constitutes as a loli. A loli by definition is a underdeveloped or underage person. It has just been taken to the point of being very young girls, but a 15 year old girl would still be a loli.

 

[Macgyvercas]

Like I said in another thread, a Tokyo without insane, ridiculous sexual content is like Seoul without dog soup and New York without apple pie.

It just seems wrong on a cultural level.

Also like Erie PA without an obscene amount of snow in the winter.

 

[SimuLord]

Like I said in another thread, a Tokyo without insane, ridiculous sexual content is like Seoul without dog soup and New York without apple pie.

It just seems wrong on a cultural level.

Also like Erie PA without an obscene amount of snow in the winter.

Erie is the gas station between Buffalo and Cleveland.

 

[Jim555]

In other words, this is an lose-win or lose-lose situation?

 

[BrassButtons]

And D&D actually involves devil worship, because otherwise it would never have been looked down on by society, right?

Unless I am very mistaken, no one believes that D&D involves devil worship nowadays.

And what about when society did believe that? Was it true then? After all--how did you put it?--"there's a reason there's a social stigma attached[...]otherwise it would be a wildly accepted by society." So either anything society finds unacceptable is actually bad (in which case D&D must have been an actual danger when it was stigmatized) or this line of reasoning is bunk.

No, you couldn't. Doing these things is a violation, whether the child can comprehend the actions or not.

Similarly depicting minors in such a manner is a violation

A violation of whom? Please bear in mind that we are talking about depictions of fictional minors, not real people.

 

[Kaboose the Moose]

And what about when society did believe that? Was it true then? After all--how did you put it?--"there's a reason there's a social stigma attached[...]otherwise it would be a wildly accepted by society." So either anything society finds unacceptable is actually bad (in which case D&D must have been an actual danger when it was stigmatized) or this line of reasoning is bunk.

It's not enough to just be unacceptable, it has to be a criminal act as well. D&D was just thought to be unacceptable, it has never been illegal. Having a social stigma, is usually an indication that there is either a prosecutable law and/or an ethical law against it (not all the time granted, but with relation to child pornography it is relevant). A point that I was bringing up in context when I was replying to another poster.

No, you couldn't. Doing these things is a violation, whether the child can comprehend the actions or not.

Similarly depicting minors in such a manner is a violation

A violation of whom? Please bear in mind that we are talking about depictions of fictional minors, not real people.

A violation of the LAW!.

As I have said before [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.250906-Tokyos-Anti-Loli-Bill-has-Passed-in-Committee?page=6#9300298]; (post #191) with the exception of Japan every major country has a law preventing mechanical/digital depictions of minors in sexual acts, regardless if they are cartoon or real. So unless Europe and North America decided to repeal the laws..I am going to continue to believe (correctly, I might add) that depicting minors, even in cartoons, is illegal.

Ergo, my grief with Japan and the hope this law (albeit, in need of polishing) can regulate the loli industry in Japan. Does censoring child porn, break the principles of free speech? Yes. Am I butthurt about sacrificing a bit of that liberty to censor child porn? No

People really shouldn't be upset that the Japanese government wants to pursue concepts where anime can be depicted without invoking rape scenes, sexual acts with children and children committing sexual acts. I can understand that they are upset with the "vague terms" in the bill (and its potential for broader abuse) but not the inherent concept of cracking down on the loli market.

It also upsets me that some people have the cheek, the effrontery, to be upset with the notion of regulating/censoring child porn because its suppressing the freedom of speech. Given the choice, isn't something worth a compromise? If people are not willing to compromise to fight child porn then what good are we as people?

Finally, I do believe that I am being quoted, by numerous people, who are selectively picking what I have said to other posters without reading everything in context. Therefore (and since I am unaccustomed to spending this much time on someone I am not having a relationship with) this will be the last time I am replying to something to this thread and debating another poster's fierce, unrelenting and sometimes pedantic logic.

I hope you fantastic day and merry Christmas!

 

[dmase]

As long as its not regulated by a group of conservatives trying there best to put any form of media they find too "sexy" on the adult section or banned for the populous's own good. I mean yeah this stuff shouldn't be in the hands of kids and you shouldn't have kids gawking in the middle of the store at all the hentai. etc. etc.

Things can be controlled and things that go a bit too far should be stopped. I mean we don't let real children in pornography and 99% of people will probably agree with that.

I don't ever remember this bill being an issue about kids gawking at hentai. They already state that the adult industry is not what's being focused on as theres already an 18+ statute in place.

I'll admit i haven't read the bill but what i take from the op is that they are making it a requirement for adult sections for adult content that is considered too outlandish. If it was already in a non-adult section with the other manga then yes i assume someone could open the book if a store manager didn't care or wasn't watching.

Banning the sale online is a bit much but it wouldn't be the first time a kid has told their mom to get them something that wasn't kosher but its hard to tell through a site like amazon unless the parents is vigilant. Also wouldn't be the first time a kid used a credit card to but something he shouldn't.