Tolkien, Overrated?

[Ravek]

But the reason that they are still revered today (like Tolkien is) is because they were influential, right?

Yes, definitely.

 

[Anomynous 167]

Tolkien has recieved my scorn because of his insistent misspellings have been borrowed by other fantasy authors.

The word I am talking about is of three letters. The word I am talking about is "Ork"

It annoys me that so many franchises and authors have borrowed his error, and slammed on a C in the word inplace of the proper K.

This problem is so prevailent that the few franchises that don't copy his error,(E.G: Warhammer, a franchise that I know nothing about) are mistaken as something written by some one trying to to be hip by using the letter K in the place of the proper C (It looks like the trope "Xtremely Kool Letterz"http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/XtremeKoolLetterz ).

So to phrase the 4th paragraph in simpler terms: in this case senario, spelling the word right makes you look like a try-hard.

Is Tolkien that guy who ripped off Gary Gygax?

Yup.

Who said that it was correct to use a K? It says on Wikipedia that it was Tolkien that made up the word. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc
In fact, Wikipedia also says that "ork" is simply an alternate spelling to "orc".

(Wikipedia isn't always right)The reason Ork is spelt with a K is because it is a German word, and being a species concieved in Germanic mythology. And in German the letter C is always soft like a Z.
So if the Germans had spelt it with a C then he would spell it with a Z.

For the other dude that argued that Tolkien was a language professor: NO one is perfect, and everyone makes mistakes. (Also I am pretty sure he studied Finnish, and not German)

 

[Geekosaurus]

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me.

Ever read anything by the Bronte sisters? Jane Eyre, Wuthering Heights? Exact same problem. This doesn't make an author overrated though - that's just your personal preference.

 

[Madara XIII]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

Edit: I'm not refuting Tolkien's contribution to fantasy as a genre In fact I have admitted that he was a major influence to many of the best authors of our time.

UNLEASH THE ORCS!!!!

Nah, but seriously you may not like him, but I advise you aknowledge his works. Like H.P. Lovecraft he brought about a revolution for Fantasy as Lovecraft and Clive Barker did for Horror.


And now to quote Pinhead.
"Shall you trick me again I can assure that your suffering in Hell will be Legendary!!!"

 

[Madara XIII]

We all have our dislikes, but you still should acknowledge major figures. Tolkien was practically the father of modern fantasy stories, just like how Shakespeare was for theatre or Freud was for psychology. You may think their works are crap, but you can't deny their influence.

Ooooo /thread.

Without Tolkien, we'd have no elves at all! And maybe even less!

And is that a good thing? trolololo.

But on the Tolkien matter, I think techniclly that he gave us D&D...and I think everyone loves D&D.
Of course D&D has evolved alot but D&D always takes things from LOTR....

If you're asking me if having no elves is a good thing, I should really add that I'm saying without Tolkien, we'd lose a lot of good stuff.

Especially the Lesbian Elves....NOOOOOOO we needs the precious they is good!!

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Agreed. He had good concepts (non-dorky elves, for one thing) but his writing was atrocious. I've seen less purple prose in fan-fiction. Twilight fan-fiction.

 

[Lord Beautiful]

I'm not a big fan of Tolkien, but I'm glad he was around to write the stories.

My vote for overrated author goes to Charles Dickens. To this day, Great Expectations easily maintains the honor of being the most excruciating piece of literature I've ever had the misfortune of reading.

 

[Darth_Dude]

Tolkien's writing may have felt drawn out, but that's how writing was 80 years ago.

 

[Death God]

I'm not one who loves Tolkien but she's just as popular as Rowling. It's all about preferences.

Please tell me you are trolling and you don't actually think Tolkien is a woman.

Sorry to say, I have no clue what gender Tolkien is. I've never been a fan of "his" books and I only liked the very last part of the last movie. Other than that, I haven't the foggiest what he wrote about.

 

[VanityGirl]

He's pretty good. I can understand him drawing out certain things, but I don't think he's overrated.

 

[Anomynous 167]

Tolkien's writing may have felt drawn out, but that's how writing was 80 years ago.

I don't think it was the style at the time, so much as that no one knew the disadvantages of the style of excrutiating detail because few practiced the "Show. Don't Tell." philosophy of writing back then. Meaning the flaws might of been less noticable.

But who am I to judge? I haven't read any of it.

 

[Fusioncode9]

I'm a pretty big fan of fantasy yet I hate the Lord of the Rings books and most of Tolkien's other books. To many of my friends who are also fantasy fans this is like blaspheme and I have on quite a few occasions had to defend my opinion in heated argument form.

My problem with Tolkien is I feel that he draws things out, especially descriptions. Also he has gone so in much detail that it kind of ruins the experience for me. It's one thing to develop you're world but there is such a thing as over developing it. It makes it so the reader is less involved in the telling of the story, you can't even think about what the rock looks because he has already spent half a page describing it.

How do you feel about Tolkien? What other writers do you feel are overrated and why?

Edit: I'm not refuting Tolkien's contribution to fantasy as a genre In fact I have admitted that he was a major influence to many of the best authors of our time.

THIS IS BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, I'm not the biggest biggest book worm out there but the LOTR trilogy is one of my favorite book series of all time and my favorite movies.

 

[Macgyvercas]

DEMS FIGHTIN WORDS BOY!!!
OT:I absolutely adore Tolkien I've read everything by him and The Silmarillion is absolutely my favorite piece of literature.Everything about his world and what he's done with it just fascinates me.

I'm with you. Any attack on Tolkien or his works is a cutting offense.

 

[WorldCritic]

My views on Tolkien, I recognize that he was influential and that fantasy would not be the same without him, but when it comes to the actual stuff he wrote I'm not a huge fan. I watched the movies and I wasn't particularly interested by them, and then I tried reading the Hobbit, I get about forty pages in and then I fall asleep. I got really bored.

 

[Socius]

You said WHAT? Listen here you twat, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien has been, and still is, considered by the literare society the outmost best author of all time, only set equal to minds such as Agatha Christie, Sir Arthur Conan, Clive Staples Lewis and the writers of the freaking bible.

The lord of the rings are now the third most read books on planet earth, only beaten by Harry Potter and the bible. May I inform you that the bible has been around for, oh lets say: 223 AD. Tolkien practically invented the entire genre of fantasy, elves, dwarves, dragons and even hobbits may be tracked to all sorts of mythology but never, sir, NEVER, have they had any information in depth like this. No modern view on mythological beings would be the same if not for Sir Tolkien. The LOTR are not even his masterpiece, read Quenta Silmarillion, his true Mona Lisa.

The guy invented close to 15 langues, 2 witch he created with a fully competable grammar system. so sir, watch your tounge, I do respect your opinion, but i decent it because objectively, rational and logically there is no possible way to critisise Tolkien without the intent of starting a flame war and you got to be a troll or simply one with a very unique perspective at literature.

All this said with the outmost respect, of course.

 

[Tdc2182]

Well, I got read the Hobbit to me when I was young. I absolutely adored it. Ended up reading it by myself at a very early age.

Next came the Lord of the Rings.

To this date I have not been able to get into it. No matter how hard I try.

Edit: May be the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed the movies.

 

[Tdc2182]

You said WHAT? Listen here you twat, John Ronald Reuel Tolkien has been, and still is, considered by the literare society the outmost best author of all time, only set equal to minds such as Agatha Christie, Sir Arthur Conan, Clive Staples Lewis and the writers of the freaking bible.

The lord of the rings are now the third most read books on planet earth, only beaten by Harry Potter and the bible. May I inform you that the bible has been around for, oh lets say: 223 AD. Tolkien practically invented the entire genre of fantasy, elves, dwarves, dragons and even hobbits may be tracked to all sorts of mythology but never, sir, NEVER, have they had any information in depth like this. No modern view on mythological beings would be the same if not for Sir Tolkien. The LOTR are not even his masterpiece, read Quenta Silmarillion, his true Mona Lisa.

The guy invented close to 15 langues, 2 witch he created with a fully competable grammar system. so sir, watch your tounge, I do respect your opinion, but i decent it because objectively, rational and logically there is no possible way to critisise Tolkien without the intent of starting a flame war and you got to be a troll or simply one with a very unique perspective at literature.

All this said with the outmost respect, of course.

Good comment right here.

Even though I didn't particularly enjoy some of his writing, he is the one to thank (or blame) for basically every fantasy ... thing in the world.

World of Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons, probably even Harry Potter.

Whatever your taste may be, he formed a good deal of Modern entertainment culture.

 

[Chal]

Woah, there. Lotta responses claiming his writing to be subpar, and I think someone here even applied that to Verne!

To the posters advising to keep time context in mind: thank you! This is really something that a contemporary audience neglects all too frequently. Imagination has been spoiled for some. Oh, and extra props to the guy that brought up Dostoevsky, just 'cause he's awesome too.

More to the point: I think elaborate descriptions are really a hallmark of intelligent writing. Seeing them as something that "slows the pace" is a hallmark of being on a site full of 21st century gamers.

From children's tales like Treasure Island to more advanced works like Seven Pillars of Wisdom, you're going to find vivid passages in the classics.

I appreciate all of Tolkien's work, even his lesser known works like the Legend of Sigurd & Gudrun. I value writing from educated authors, and Tolkien was indisputably a genius.

I'm tempted to spew out some hatred for authors that are truly overrated nowadays, but I'll hold my tongue and stay on topic this time.

IMHO, Tolkien is miles above modern fantasy. I acknowledge his greatness for his actual talent, not his contributions to the genre. I also acknowledge that I'm probably coming off as a raging fanboy, but I'm a bibliophile at heart. I can't really deny that.

 

[Shapsters]

Its funny I had a short discussion about this with my English teacher a couple weeks ago, she said exactly the same thing.

I find the over description helps me get into the story more and makes the imagery amazingly clear in my mind. Sometimes you really have to concentrate to follow what you are reading but its not that difficult and the images are just so clear in my head.