top 10 arguments I disagree with

[Vault101]

One of the arguments in the world today I disagree with is that Metroid: Other M is a masterpiece and that Samus was plagued with a emotional disorder that leads her to abusive relationships. Dammit, people! It's obvious that the game is wrought with a lot of instances of bad writing. The more there are, the more likely it is that other key moments such as the prescribed disorder is actually a case of bad writing as well! Don't try to give something context when the writer easily could've given that same context in the story, but didn't! It's only further evidence the writer failed in the endeavor, anyway!

I would also disagree with somone saying theres no reason samus COULDNT be like that, because if her past actions and what ever small scraps of info we got about her are anything to go by...no

thats like saying theres no reason Gordon freeman COULDNT secretley hate alyx Vance

or theres no reason Master cheif COULDNT cross dress in his spare time

 

[Lesd3vil]

10. The PC as a 'recognised platform' (IE the conception of it as the only platform powerful enough to run certain pieces of software) has been pretty dead for a long time now

9. It did bugs and glitches really well, I gotta agree there

8. Mako might not have been very interesting, but it was a damn sight more interesting than penetrating planets on a screen >>

7. No game can feasibly be realistic anyway, how many people do YOU know that can reload their last save on real life? :|

6. Games can be both, but if you expect them to SELL then they kinda have to be entertaining

5. Gotta die sometime

4. Being fair, yes, some sequels are good. But honestly, a lot of them are simply squeezed out to make the developers more money, now aren't they?

3. Who gives a flying @$%&, seriously?

2. This sounds like something you've just ripped straight out of one of Yahtzee's videos, with no thought for what it actually means :/

1. I must agree with you there, but people who do NOTHING but game to the exclusion of living a rich, full, exciting life? Yeah, they're pretty sad.

You kinda have a few valid points, but the fact that you stated all of your subjective opinions as objective facts really made me want to disagree with you >> this is a problem I have with a fair few people who are close to me at the moment: 'I like it' does not equal 'It is good' and 'I don't like it' does not equal 'it is bad'; and since good and bad are simply constructs made up by society to influence the way you act for the better of the collective as a whole... Maybe you need to realise that other people are allowed to have different opinions than you.

For example, I DON'T like Fallout 3. I don't like the story, I don't like the gameplay and I don't like the setting. If that makes me wrong - if that makes my opinion invalid - then you aren't allowed an opinion either :/

 

[ultrachicken]

7- Realism is a problem for me because if you want to get killed with one bullet, you can go out and do it yourself. Video games are meant to help us live the lives we can't live in reality.

You're suggesting that if someone want to get a taste of tactical shooter gameplay, where they have to be careful when they pop out of cover and plan their attacks carefully, they should instead go take a real bullet so that you can continue to play mindless rambo shooters?

Besides, I doubt just anyone can go become the kind of special ops, hawk-eyed marksman that appears in shooters. They ARE playing a role they can't live in reality.

 

[Irriduccibilli]

Err, might want to work on that grammar a little more man.

But yeah, I agree with what your saying... I guess. Seriously, its kind of hard to read. Work on the grammar and ill get back to you.

Don't be such a grammar nazi [http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTk0aOldJmtvWxNEKeBYmHGhgUT5P7N_e_9RNFZ3mi_nu_y3xv&t=1], not everyone was born with english as their native language.

OT:
Well I sorta agree with most of whats on your list, but I have to disagree, to some extent, with nr. 9 and nr. 5. Well Fallout wasnt a bad game, I really liked it, but looking back at I only liked it because I could look away from its flaws. Playing it now is really frustrating with objects dissappearing and shooting miles into the air, lousy hit detection, freezes, corrupt save files, and I could go on, but still, it wasnt a bad game, just frustrating.
Nr. 5, well everything is dying, you cant deny that. Every second that passes gets you closer to an end, for everything

 

[Vault101]

10. The PC as a 'recognised platform' (IE the conception of it as the only platform powerful enough to run certain pieces of software) has been pretty dead for a long time now

9. It did bugs and glitches really well, I gotta agree there

8. Mako might not have been very interesting, but it was a damn sight more interesting than penetrating planets on a screen >>

7. No game can feasibly be realistic anyway, how many people do YOU know that can reload their last save on real life? :|

6. Games can be both, but if you expect them to SELL then they kinda have to be entertaining

5. Gotta die sometime

4. Being fair, yes, some sequels are good. But honestly, a lot of them are simply squeezed out to make the developers more money, now aren't they?

3. Who gives a flying @$%&, seriously?

2. This sounds like something you've just ripped straight out of one of Yahtzee's videos, with no thought for what it actually means :/

1. I must agree with you there, but people who do NOTHING but game to the exclusion of living a rich, full, exciting life? Yeah, they're pretty sad.

You kinda have a few valid points, but the fact that you stated all of your subjective opinions as objective facts really made me want to disagree with you >> this is a problem I have with a fair few people who are close to me at the moment: 'I like it' does not equal 'It is good' and 'I don't like it' does not equal 'it is bad'; and since good and bad are simply constructs made up by society to influence the way you act for the better of the collective as a whole... Maybe you need to realise that other people are allowed to have different opinions than you.

For example, I DON'T like Fallout 3. I don't like the story, I don't like the gameplay and I don't like the setting. If that makes me wrong - if that makes my opinion invalid - then you aren't allowed an opinion either :/

I never ment for this to come across as "all of what I'm saying here is fact" Im simply stating common things I disagree with and my reasons why (hence the title top 10 arguments I disagree with, not top 10 arguments that are wrong)

also I understand that not everyone likes/dislikes the same things as me, when I mentioned Fallout 3 I always found that the ONE thing people refer to is (they totally screwed up the brotherhood!) but I think aside from the black and white morality systm the game has alot of great things about it, but then again its all subjective

in regards to point 2.

I didnt even know yahtzee said anything like that, anyway this is actually somthign I often think about,

now yes ALOT of games with a blank protagonist work great, even if they arnt customozable

but I find that often I would much rather they give some kind of charachterisation

I mean saints row 2 wouldnt have been nearly as fun If I had to play as a silent man,but not only could I play as a chick..she was VOICED, which was awsome

even stuff like Fallout and other RPG's, they give you somthing to work with, because if the Idea is projection...Im sorry but I CANT project myself onto a white brown haired male, now UNLESS he's got anything else going for him aside form the fact he's a guy and I can controll him like you know a personality and all that...that just doesnt work

like Oblivion, it killed the game for me, because I was nohing but a walking camera sure I could imagine I was anything...but the game would pretty much treat me the same what ever I would do

that said because there are alot of good example I guess all I can really say is it depends on the induvidual game

also I kinda didnt make myself clear enough with the art game thing, its the argument that "if games become art then ALL games will be art games and wont be fun anymore"

now is that not the stupidest thing youve ever heard?

 

[Sean Renaud]

10. PC gaming is dying.

Its dying. Really the only stuff you see do well on PC's these days are things you CAN'T do on a console. So your RTS because a controller simply can't handle that well. Sure you could make (and I have made) the argument that Pikmin is essentially an RTS that's far from the point. Warcraft and Starcract and the like SUCK on consoles. Same so far with MMO's though I honestly don't know why. You'd think a Pokemon MMO would have came out as a Wii Launch title and done just fine.

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game,
Haven't played it.

8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing-

haven't played it

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself

Realism is great. But it's not everything and not for everyday. No small part of my support for Nintendo comes from the fact that I know they'll keep putting out quirky games, I don't need to worry about everything becoming Halo with them like I honestly feel often when I look at the line up for my Xbox. It's like I get ten shooting games, eleven sports games, five racers and if I'm lucky there is a current slasher out and if I'm REALLY lucky something cutesy for when I'm not feeling the rampant blood lust.

6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!"

Agreed. That is an ignorant argument. What I want is both and for art games to do well in the market place so they show up more often. On a tangent I'm tired of Japan getting so many exclusives.

5. everything is dying

WHAT?

4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...

I've never really come across this argument. It's kinda true in movies but even that isn't universal in games the sequels are usually better because they've learned from their mistakes. Sure sometimes it's just the same damn game but that doesn't make it bad, itmakes it unoriginal.

3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

BS. My platform is better, that's why I bought it.

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

Depends on the game. Most FPS's for example are so action oriented that blank or filled in I don't care. It's like most fighting games. If you told me that Street Fighter 4 would have come out with all the charachters in it now for the first version but they'd have to cut the endings out of the game I'd shrug. I don't actually care about the story I just wanna have fun.

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

Oh well. That's a cultural thing and we all need to make a consious effort to defeat that. Gamers loud and proud. Those of us who are anime fans need to do the same and get people to watch good and universal anime. No culture that like Supernatural, Buffy and Twilight should be rejecting Vampire Hunter D or Death Note.

 

[gbemery]

Spoiler

10. PC gaming is dying....Its not dying anymore than consoles are dying, I predict interesting times in the nest couple of generations...it may not be as straight forward as "get next console" or "upgrade rig"

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game, lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)

8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing- yeah I know I shouldnt go here, but I just did, I will go out on a limb and say ME wasnt much of a good in-depth RPG, aside form the main story arc exploring and doing sidequests really wasnt all that much fun/rewarding

or even getting items and such...all really felt like a palete swap, oh and the Mako...fuck the mako, sure arguably it could have been a bad thing for DA2..but not ME

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself

6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!"

what?

no seriously what?

ok....FILMS are a recognised art form, yet we still have youre summer block busters, your indie films and your oscar bait peices, get my drift here? gaming realy isnt any different

I dont mean to come across as agressive but this statment strikes me as incredibly stupid (and lets not debate what IS art because that goes nowhere fast)

5. everything is dying

no it isnt

4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...

3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

10. Agreed, it isn't dying just becoming more specialized in my opinion while consoles are becoming more broad range. I played a lot of horrible games on the PC before consoles ever started taking off.

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.

7. I completely agree with this statement and would add that it really depends to on what you want. "People say I play games to escape reality so I want things that are not realistic." Sure those games are fun and I play them to but I too play game to escape from reality. But that doesn't mean I want to go to the mushroom kingdom. I want to put myself in the realistic shoes of someone else and RP as that character. You know to maybe see what life would somewhat be like as a soldier or a fighter pilot etc.

6.Agree, though I think this argument comes from the fear that people wearing dark sunglasses and berets saying "voila" every time they take a shit will push out something that is horrible and stand behind it because its "art" /voila

5. see statement about PCs are dying

4. sequels are never bad if you are into the story of the series. even if they just are out for a cash cow. If they really sucked no one would buy them case and point.

3. agreed I don't think this one needs to be talked about much other than people will type to the death to defend how they spent money just to make them feel like they didnt' get a bad deal or make the wrong choice. Like they think they are infallible

2. Agreeish, like chrono cross and other similar RPGs are great with blank/silent characters, and I can see why FPSs are better with them too but I still, depending on the game, like to add my own backstory and voice sometimes...

1. what? Im confused on this one.

 

[Minigrinch]

10. PC gaming is dying.

Its dying. Really the only stuff you see do well on PC's these days are things you CAN'T do on a console. So your RTS because a controller simply can't handle that well. Sure you could make (and I have made) the argument that Pikmin is essentially an RTS that's far from the point. Warcraft and Starcract and the like SUCK on consoles. Same so far with MMO's though I honestly don't know why. You'd think a Pokemon MMO would have came out as a Wii Launch title and done just fine.

No, just no, PC gaming has been going from strength to strength over the last few years, particularly thanks to cheaper parts and digital distribution, alongside higher public internet speeds.

The only people who say that are console elitists, people who believe the PIRACY IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY propaganda and those who don't even look at indie games.

 

[Johann610]

Sequels are bad for one of three reasons:
--The originality is gone. The I.P. has established characters, enemies, plot, setting and title; just add a new bad guy, slap on a number (or re-something) and away you go.
--The stuff they didn't finish is tied up here. This makes the ORIGINAL game weaker since they have to have cliff-hanger endings or--worse--allow numerous plot lines to fester that they could just resolve or--gasp!--remove entirely.
--The story inserts retroactive continuity--retcons--that make the original story moot or something.
--Top it all off with the sense that the player has been there, done that, and has spent $60 for nothing but a re-run of the old story.

I used to love sequels--Jazz Jackrabbit 2 and Doom 2 are examples of expansion, new stories, and better weapons without ever feeling like bad re-treads of the original. Nowadays, too many "hippo in a pool of liquid iced children" sequels are made, and I have to wait for critics to approve before I buy in.

 

[demotion1]

I agree with most if not all the points. Very good list.

 

[Vault101]

Spoiler

10. PC gaming is dying....Its not dying anymore than consoles are dying, I predict interesting times in the nest couple of generations...it may not be as straight forward as "get next console" or "upgrade rig"

9. Fallout 3 was a bad game, lets just put certain plot points ASIDE for a moment, I think some people really forget what the game did incredibly well (and that was alot of things)

8. the "dumbing" down/streamlining of Mass effect was a bad thing- yeah I know I shouldnt go here, but I just did, I will go out on a limb and say ME wasnt much of a good in-depth RPG, aside form the main story arc exploring and doing sidequests really wasnt all that much fun/rewarding

or even getting items and such...all really felt like a palete swap, oh and the Mako...fuck the mako, sure arguably it could have been a bad thing for DA2..but not ME

7. "realism" is the devil, all depends on what kind of game youre going for, I think people only hate (or you know, whine about) grittyness/realism because its a trend, not because its bad in itself

6. "I dont want games to be art, games are ment to be fun!"

what?

no seriously what?

ok....FILMS are a recognised art form, yet we still have youre summer block busters, your indie films and your oscar bait peices, get my drift here? gaming realy isnt any different

I dont mean to come across as agressive but this statment strikes me as incredibly stupid (and lets not debate what IS art because that goes nowhere fast)

5. everything is dying

no it isnt

4. seaquels are bad- they can be, but often they arnt, and lets face it, you would be crying out for a seaquel for X game anyway...

3. "my platform is better"-no it isnt

2. Blank charachters are better, no they are boring and unrelatible, sure if its an RPG then thats the point, but unless your charachter is customisable or its a FPS DO NOT make them blank/silent

1. anything related to gaming is "sad"

9. First of all what did Fallout 3 do that was INCREDIBLE in your eyes? You need to give examples not just "ALOT" I honestly have to disagree I never played it through all the way because it keeps losing my interest. In my opinion there really isn't anything that stands out that another game didn't already do and better, but feel free to tell me what I am missing and maybe I'll try to sit through it.

8. I can't agree with this one either. I hate to be one of those people but I am on the fence. Both were amazing games. I didn't like the ungodly inventory of the first one but I didn't like the lack of one in ME2. I felt I had more customization in the first one as oppose to the second. While I felt my decisions in the second meant more. I liked the combat in the second but not the world layout. The first one felt more open and the second just felt more closed off and not as huge. I honestly liked the MAKO the only thing I didn't like was how damn craggy the freaking planets were. I really don't see where people had problems with it other than the terrain. It was way better then the planet scanning and that piece of crap hammerhead tank they gave us which felt more like a racing game. Then the side quests in both didn't really feel like there was a need for them and the first one's felt just alittle more rewarding to me. I think this argument mainly comes from two groups of people playing the same game. Like say RPG fans loved the first one while FPS/TPS fans didn't so much and that just switched for ME2. In the end you aren't ever going to hear the end of arguments like these as long as companies try to please everyone and get multiple genre fans for one game. There is always going to be something one group likes that the other doesn't and it just comes down to who can ***** the loudest and make the company change pace.



1. what? Im confused on this one.

because of this thing called opnion/induviduality I dont think anything i say could make you like fallout 3 if it didnt spark your interest enough, it happens (like with me and S.T.A.L.K.E.R.)

I put this here because I found people would focus ONLY on the treatment of the Brotherhood and simplifying things (in most cases) to a black and white karma systm

and yes (without broken steel) the main story falls apart at the end

but heres what I love about the game

1. atmosphere, some people says theres none, some people says theres alot, Im in the "omg atmohphere is awsome!" group

I mean the look and feel is fallout through and through, with the classic music and everything

the world really feels like its been brought to life more or less

2. the GOOD parts of the story, growing up in the vault the thing with your dad I felt was very well done and added extra emotional punch

and trainquility lane...that was cool (and the DLC depending on your personal preference I LOVED point lookout, yeah I have a thing for trippy seaquences)

3. exploration, unliek NV FO3 was really the kind of game you wander in a direction and see what you can find and theres alot..from the subtle to the not so subtle (Like a little rube-golderberg trap set up in a store..its like "oh! dominoes! *whack*"

role playing I loved fallotu 3 because I had a real emotional connection to everything my charachter was a charter, she had her own past and her own story

and for those who like to blow things up..yeah you can do that too

is the game perfect? hell no but its a favorite of mine

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

OP needs 20cc's of grammar! Stat!

But seriously, couldn't stand to read that.

 

[GaryH]

All of the anti-religion arguments here, most are people blaming religion for the things that stupid people do in the name of religion and act like that's ALL religion has ever done, which is incredibly narrow minded.

And I'm not even religious.

Well if someone did something in the name of an organization, and that action is stupid, wouldn't you think that organization is stupid? All groups that have no entry requirements hold the risk of being represented by the wrong message. I wouldn't disagree that religion has brought on some good, but it surely isn't necessary for civilization.

Well in my opinion:

1)Ideologies should be judged on its own merits, not on those of its followers. An argument is equally valid or invalid, no matter who speaks it.

2)It was definitely important for the creation of civilisation, a society requires people with like-minded moral ideals for it to be formed and Religion is a great way for a common set of moral guidelines to spread.

Your second point is a very good one, but I consider religion to be like the training wheels of civilisation. It's about time we took them off, we're starting to look ridiculous.

EDIT: I should point out, just because I don't really want to get flamed today, that you are all entitled to believe what you need to believe to make you happy. I'm not going to try and take that from you and if you think that's what I'm saying then you miss my point entirely. Have a good day!

 

[OrokuSaki]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think he just missed the L.

 

[Lukeje]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think the word was supposed to be `triple'. `Trice' isn't actually a word.

 

[GaryH]

Ten years ago, the variety of PC games was at least tripe the size of what it is now. Given, a good portion of them were point/click adventure games, but it is substantially smaller. I believe that PC gaming is dying, but it's not damned to do so. A Vampyre Story was an excellent adventure game, and more like it should be made!

Is tripe a measurement now? How does it fit into the metric system. Sorry, had to call it it's not even like p and c are anywhere near each other on a keyboard.

I think he meant triple.

EDIT: You wait all day for a correction and THREE turn up at once!

 

[Sir Boss]

Ha! fantastic! the OP is really speaking my language here, especially the blank slate character. i hate with a passion the blank slate character in my opinion it's just lazy design. for me it turns a good game in to an OK game, and an OK game in to a bad game

 

[JezebelinHell]

His remark was aggressive as well, regardless of if he prefaced it with "I don't mean to come across as aggressive". Calling someone stupid because they hold a different opinion isn't very intelligent, especially when you just gave an example of how a medium can be used to service many different types of people.

Personally I think anything prefaced like that is pretty much meant to be exactly what they are trying to claim it isn't. Saying you realize you are going to be offensive does not make you less offensive. I actually think it makes you more so especially when it shows that you realized before hand that it would be perceived that way. Either don't say it, say it and take the fallout or find another way to say it.
[small]On another note, I just realized there are things other than trolls to feed around here. [/small]