Top ten greatest weapons in history

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Toaster Hunter

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The Katana is a great sword, but its really little more than a piece of sharpened metal. People argue that it was folded hundreds of times over during forging making it the perfect weapon, but this technique was used by the Celts centuries before the Japanese. It was good, but not as good as everyone makes it out to be.


Also, even simple chain-mail blocks it.
 

Knifewounds

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burntheartist said:
Knifewounds said:
JJMUG said:
Knifewounds said:
Chicago Ted said:
Knifewounds said:
Fetzenfisch said:
Squidden said:
A Katana? Kind of played, don't you think?

I was expecting something a bit more interesting.
And absolutely useless against chainmail.
doesn't hinder any of its abilities.

Just no.
Sure they are *rolls eyes* Le
That force comes from the curve that acts like a spring when you swing it which dramatically increases the pounds of force when you hit something. I still find it quite funny that you call me a weeabo considering I'm more into Greek, and Roman culture than I will ever be with the Japanese. It's merely just a childish insult. And here's a way I can get around a shield.
You do know that force comes from the blade being curved, because it's NOT acting like a spring,, but all of the energy is focused on less surface area? A flat blade hits and the whole surface shares the force and therefore lessens it, while a curved blade has much less are and therefore the first chop is made deep and the rest slides for the slice. There's nothing pertaining to spring physics in any of it.
I think what I meant was something along the lines of potential, and kinetic energy.
 

spartan231490

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Anacortian said:
Longbow wins over both Crossbow and Katana. It was made for killing even heavy cavalry at a great distance; it did just that with such effectiveness that its praises are still sung and a longbow-inspired rude gesture is still in use.
I don't see longbow at spot one. It was more successful, yes, but i think spot number one should go to somethign which is designed specifically for warfare, like a sword or a shield, the longbow originated as a hunting weapon, it was only slightly modified for war.
 

spartan231490

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AcrylicHero said:
spartan231490 said:
I didn't mean to indicate that the phalanx requires tactics, but i do believe that it allows for more tactics because it forces your men to fight as a unit. Phalanx fighting leads to discretion between units trained in different weapons, as well as tactics which specifically rely on the strengths of the phalanx, such as "hammer and the anvil" type tactics.
I thought it was ironic because the macedonian phalanx was a powerful tool for conquest, while the phalanx was later used by other greeks to prevent conquest.
I agree with your mention of propoganda and the roman legion, but I think the spartans deserve a mention as well.
The persian invasion of Greece happened first. The macedonian take over of greece and conquest of persia was much later on.
I don't care. The chronology has no effect on the level of irony.
 

Knifewounds

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Toaster Hunter said:
The Katana is a great sword, but its really little more than a piece of sharpened metal. People argue that it was folded hundreds of times over during forging making it the perfect weapon, but this technique was used by the Celts centuries before the Japanese. It was good, but not as good as everyone makes it out to be.


Also, even simple chain-mail blocks it.
Dude, you can generalize any sword as being a piece of sharpened metal. Btw the celts used this process on iron to make their swords. The Japanese used tamahagane steel.
 

Shadows Inc.

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Knifewounds said:
burntheartist said:
Knifewounds said:
JJMUG said:
Knifewounds said:
Chicago Ted said:
Knifewounds said:
Fetzenfisch said:
Squidden said:
A Katana? Kind of played, don't you think?

I was expecting something a bit more interesting.
And absolutely useless against chainmail.
doesn't hinder any of its abilities.

Just no.
Sure they are *rolls eyes* Le
That force comes from the curve that acts like a spring when you swing it which dramatically increases the pounds of force when you hit something. I still find it quite funny that you call me a weeabo considering I'm more into Greek, and Roman culture than I will ever be with the Japanese. It's merely just a childish insult. And here's a way I can get around a shield.
You do know that force comes from the blade being curved, because it's NOT acting like a spring,, but all of the energy is focused on less surface area? A flat blade hits and the whole surface shares the force and therefore lessens it, while a curved blade has much less are and therefore the first chop is made deep and the rest slides for the slice. There's nothing pertaining to spring physics in any of it.
I think what I meant was something along the lines of potential, and kinetic energy.
No, read my post on this exact same comment stream on page 5.
 

Rickyvantof

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[image width=400]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Recoilless_gun_155mm_Davy_Crockett3.jpg[/IMG]
Edit: Smaller now

It's the Davy Crockett. A recoilles rifle that shoots a nuclear warhead.
 

GrimTuesday

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NeutralDrow said:
GrimTuesday said:
NeutralDrow said:
GrimTuesday said:
HAHA If you want to see some awesome spear work go watch Red Cliff. It's about Liu Bei's little rebellion during which Zhao Yun was one of his main generals.

I stand by my statement that axes are cooler and therefore they beat spears.
I still do need to see that. In the meantime, I've played that battle. Not as Zhao Yun, though; I prefer Guan Yu over him.

And clearly the only way would could settle this is open combat. My yari against whatever axe you pick (other than <url=http://www.studiodink.com/Images/Dynasty_Warriors/DW4/Xu-Huang.jpg>Xu Huang's; shit be cheatin', yo). Long as we're not using Fire Emblem mechanics, my advantage!
If you have Netflix, the theatrical version is on instant. It's not the full movie (the full movie is 4 hours long, it's just waiting on my queue because it's two disks and I want to get them at the same time) but it's still pretty good.
Sweet, I do have Netflix. I'll look it up.

Were I to fight someone with a spear I would use a Dane ax. If you don't know what that is, it a long ax used frequently by vikings. it's about three feet long but because a targe can be used with something still in hand I could still use it two handed.
Hmm...

*<url=http://www.austlend.org/images/085_85.jpg>checks*

Oh come on! You go off on the merits of axes, then you bring a polearm to a fight? On the plus side, you'd be just as afflicted by the following "disadvantage" of spears as I would (after all, your weapon has an axe head, not a scythe blade).
you're right, that is a polearm. Well in that case I'll just get myself a nice heave waraxe and call it good.

Or, it would, except...

The problem with spears is once your opponent gets inside the reach of the spear it is very hard to continue to use the spear and still fight effectively, which is where my shield comes in.
Not really. I'm a wizard, you see. Once you get "inside my reach," I magically turn my spear into a staff.

The shield would be a problem, admittedly, but at the very least, it would mean your weapon is tied up, and your avenue of attack predictable, especially if you had the spike.
That's cheating, no one ever said anything about magic (which is for cowards by the way, HARRUMPH)

I changed my weapon, so now it's not tied up except for tied up in your belly, mwahaha.
Still, though...

If this weapon was not the best suited for the purpose, why did it not cease to be used as a killing tool until guns came around?
What about weapons that didn't cease being used when guns came around?

I've always been bothered when people say that all they would bring into a melee fight is a knife. If you ask me all you're going to get out of that is my warhammer turning your face into goo while your knife is stuck in my shield. :D (I like heavy weapons that make people go splat)
Assuming you're fighting on open ground with room to swing, and you actually hit the guy with the knife. And why would he be attacking your shield? Unless you're talking, like, a buckler or something.
I'm thinking more like a Scottish targe, you know the ones with the huge fucking spikes on the front. But your point is valid about the space issue, although I don't know of many melee fights that take place in small corridors. Also it's not that hard to swing a hammer (most warhammers weighted about 5-8lbs.) in a confined space.
To be honest, the only times I see people speak about the usefulness of knives is in modern combat situations, which is what I was thinking of.

I'd pick a spear or an iron staff, myself.

Knives are good if you're trying to be quiet or it's you last resort, but there is nothing quite about a melee fight and if you run in there with just a knife you're likely to get you head bashed in.
Again, depending on the fight. Extreme close-quarters, or in constrained areas, and they're incredible. That's why they (and in some cases short swords) were always carried alongside longer weapons. Using them generally requires good unarmed fighting skills as well...but then, essentially every weapon benefits from that.

And "running in there" is pretty bad, no matter what you're wielding.[/quote]

Yeah I will admit that knives are good really really close range.

If you have a nice set of heavy plate just charging into the fray is a great idea though, it makes it even more fun.
 

Jenkins

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Shadows Inc. said:
Jenkins said:
hmm.

Bowie knife is just a big blade, thats it. nothing special about it.

Katana doesnt deserve to be on this list. its just a sword, nothing special there.

Halberds while cool were also crap, a weapon given to peasants enlisted in a lords army and usually for anti-cavalry. in reality if you got anywhere close this weapon itd be quiet easy to parry if you know how to use a sword and once you got past the blade part your screwed. unlike the crossbow which gave any farmhand long range and powerful shot. this weapon was NOT used by knights.

RPG7's are also craptastic but I guess they MIGHT deserve a spot here because they are easy to procure.

also if you need to put a bow, put the recurve or longbow up instead. the longbow was the English's secret weapon while the recurve bow made accuracy and power improvements with less effort.
You're an American aren't you?

what gave me away D:
 

JJMUG

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Knifewounds said:
JJMUG said:
Knifewounds said:
Chicago Ted said:
Knifewounds said:
Fetzenfisch said:
Squidden said:
A Katana? Kind of played, don't you think?

I was expecting something a bit more interesting.
And absolutely useless against chainmail.
Even though you could just thrust the blade into the chain mail, and it'll go through just like another sword. I mean all you need to penetrate chain mail is a pointy tip, and a strong blade which the katana has. And don't give me that oh, the katana's not a thrusting weapon bs. It's curved design doesn't hinder any of its abilities.
You have no idea what you're talking about here.

Next you'll be saying that Japanese Officers would cut through machine gun barrels with them in WWII.

The katana has next to no armour piercing capability. Hell, I don't know much about swords but I know that much. The blade is flat, and in order to get through the armour, you'd have to be pushing more of it away. If you're going for an armor piercing weapon, a stabbing weapon was best with a very thin blade, so you could get between plates and the like.

Your entire list is really nothing more then weapons you thought looked cool. These aren't the greatest weapons in history. Hell, you're picking weapons from all over time that really can not be compared with one another. Perhaps if you had this as some of the most iconic weapons of all time I'd give it to you, but greatest, no.

Just no.
Sure they are *rolls eyes* Let me simply state that I've wielded most(note the word Most) of these weapons, and drew up this list out of my experiences with them while still doing an ample amount of research for them. I'm judging these weapons based on their own merits, and effectiveness in their time period + what they did for future weapons. Back to the katana debate. No of course the katana isn't the best piecing weapon, but saying it has none of downright ignorant. The katana is plenty capable of piecing through light armor, and even if it cant piece through heavier armor the blade is still able to bones through the armor. After all you have to remember that the katana can still inflict 1000's of pounds of force in its slashes. In the long run armor really isn't that much o
f an issue for most longswords since they can still just inflict bunt force trauma.
1000's or pounds of force, site your sources. You have no idea what you are talking about, i posted videos of tests of a both katana and longsword, used against real chain mail, and others posted ARMA articles. It does not go through chain mail or plate armor, i has no advantage over shields. Your nothing more than a Weeabo.
At the end of my post I stated that the katana could only go through simple light armors, and not chain, and plate mail, but still had the force to break whatever bones lay underneath that. I said nothing about it going through it(well maybe, but by about half an inch). Oh, I should try to justify that 1000's of pounds of force thing before you bring it up again as ammo for a flaming retort. Well, the answers very simple, the katana does have that kind of force; that's what gives them such a powerful cut. That force comes from the curve that acts like a spring when you swing it which dramatically increases the pounds of force when you hit something. I still find it quite funny that you call me a weeabo considering I'm more into Greek, and Roman culture than I will ever be with the Japanese. It's merely just a childish insult. And here's a way I can get around a shield. I'll just break the arm behind the shield, or wait for an opening in my opponents attacks for me to lunge a counter attack into, or just exploit the blind spot the shield leaves to sweep around, and maybe cut his head off if I'm feeling charitable enough not to chop at his legs instead, and even if the shields small enough to leave a small blind spot then its still gonna leave a lot more openings for me to strike at. And do you know what the sad part is? I could do all of these with any sword longsword, not just a katana. But lets strip everything down. How would a sword like a Viking sword stack up to katana if the wielders have no armor or protection , and have to rely squarely on the sword they're using? (btw your still entitled to ***** about my last statements I want want you to consult this question)


Lets see whats wrong, the blade acts as a spring, nope that has already been touched on.

Break the arm behind the shield, nope. Unless you believe what deadliest warrior told you. In a battle against the sword and shield the Katana wielder is at the disadvantage. It does not create a blind spot of the user of the shield, the other person has the blind stop. Cut at the legs, not much movement is needed to block that same thing with the head. Try to smash it, the sword gets stuck, most shields were not strapped to the arm, the videos i posted explain why, but in light i will give a condensed version. Its so if something when through the shield like an arrow or spear it would not make the arm behind it useless. Even the Romans knew this, the pilum was not only an effective weapon to kill with it also made the shield useless by not pinning the arm to the shield but breaking the shield. The blind spot argument is funny though ill give you that. The blade gets stuck in the shield not some super anime cut through. Viking shields were meant to break, and be lightweight, you could at least watch the video of the Katana not going through the shield.

As for doing the same thing with a longsword, nope. Katana were used in different ways because of the single blade. With the longsword you could use a wrap around becuase it has both sides bladed. I would also point to the European bastard the cousin of the Katana, can be used as a Half-sword.

As for stripping everything down, does having a Katana make you a better swordsman? The viking sword does just fine against a Katana. The better swordsman wins in that scenario. Unless you can point to some magic the Katana makes someone better as a swordsman.

Ill even post the links to all the videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCJ_eNIptPo

I don't even have to ***** about that last part, its just so ridiculous to assert that the Katana makes you a better swordsman. Weeabo is an good description.
 

NeutralDrow

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Rickyvantof said:
[image width="300"]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/Recoilless_gun_155mm_Davy_Crockett3.jpg[/IMG]
(Anybody know how to make that smaller?)
Yep!

In the code tag, add in width="something" (I used width="300"; quote this post and you can see the code). Using width by itself is just fine; the picture will automatically resize the height with it.
 

Knifewounds

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NeutralDrow said:
Knifewounds said:
And here's a way I can get around a shield. I'll just break the arm behind the shield, or wait for an opening in my opponents attacks for me to lunge a counter attack into, or just exploit the blind spot the shield leaves to sweep around, and maybe cut his head off if I'm feeling charitable enough not to chop at his legs instead, and even if the shields small enough to leave a small blind spot then its still gonna leave a lot more openings for me to strike at.
*sigh*

There's a reason virtually every culture developed hand-held shields for close-combat and why they continued to be used literally for thousands of years. They were very effective. In 15th century Europe, it was only the combination of the development of full plate armor and two-handed swords combined with heavy pole-arms and powerful missile weapons that finally reduced the long reigning value of the shield in warfare. The Medieval style of sword and shield fighting is distinctly different from the two-hand grip and quick full-arm slashing cuts of Kenjutsu. Medieval short swords are properly wielded with more of a throw of the arm and a twist of the hips while making passing steps forward or back. Strikes are thrown from behind the shield while it simultaneously guards, feints, deflects, or presses. A sword and shield is a great asset over a single sword alone. Fighting with sword and shield offers a well-rounded and strong defense that safely permits a wide range of both direct and combination attacks.

A sword can cut quite well from almost all angles around or underneath a shield. Indeed, since the shield side is so well guarded, the opponent is the one limited to attacking to only one side ?the non-shield side. While a large shield does indeed close off a tremendous amount of targets to an attacker, it also limits, to a far smaller degree, freedom to attack by the shield user. As it comes out from behind their shield to strike, an attacker's weapon can be counter-timed and counter-cut ?and this is indeed one tactic to employ against a shield user. Yet a shield user's attacks are not at all one sided. A shield can be used offensively in a number of ways and at very close range.

Katanas are powerful swords used with strong techniques, but thinking they could simply cleave through a stout Medieval shield is absurd. Even with a katana a shield cannot simply be sliced through. Medieval shields were fairly thick wood covered in leather and usually trimmed in metal. Not only that, they were highly maneuverable, making solid, shearing blows difficult. More likely, a blade would be momentarily stuck in the rim if it struck too forcefully. Unlike what is seen in the movies, or described in heroic literature, chopping into a shield's edge can temporarily cause the sword blade to wedge into the shield for just an instant and thereby be delayed in recovering or renewing an attack (and exposing the attacker's arms to a counter-cut). Shields without metal rims were even favored for this very reason.

Kenjutsu (Japanese swordsmanship), though consisting of very effective counter-cutting actions, also has no real indigenous provisions for fighting shields. Although a skilled warrior could certainly improvise some, those unfamiliar with the formidable effectiveness and versatility of a sword and shield combination will have a hard time. The shield was not used the way typically shown in movies, video games, stage-combat, or historical role-playing organizations such as the SCA. Fighting against a Medieval shield is not simply a matter of maneuvering around it or aiming blows elsewhere. If a warrior does not really know the shield, or hasn't faced a good shield fighter, then they cannot be expected to know how to ideally fight against it.
- <url=http://www.thehaca.com/essays/knightvs.htm>source

Assuming you can straight-up break a shield-fighters arm is also assuming the guy with the shield has no damned idea what he's doing.

But lets strip everything down. How would a sword like a Viking sword stack up to katana if the wielders have no armor or protection , and have to rely squarely on the sword they're using?
Depends on how good the wielders are, naturally.

Frankly, I'd take a rapier over either, assuming lack of armor, though <url=http://www.thehaca.com/essays/katanavs.htm>that carries its own question.
Ok you have me there on two things, one of which I'll retort. I guess it does depend on the wielder most of the time, but a weapons design is still important. Btw thanks for that link. It was very interesting.
 

bl4ckh4wk64

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maturin said:
bl4ckh4wk64 said:
#4. RPG7
Yes, it is a useful anti-tank weapon, but the problem is that you have to be quite close. The small fins on the projectile itself don't really help in keeping it going straight and it will shoot off into random tangents. Many of them are also duds, not exploding when they hit something, or even not even firing out of the tube.
You play too much CoD.


People put scopes on them for a reason.
Oh yes, actually firing them means I play too much CoD... Correct me if I'm wrong, but they have a newer model RPG (The rocket/grenade itself, not the launcher.) that's more accurate. THAT is the one they put a scope on. However, the one I fired might have been the older version and the 7 might be the new one. In that case, I rescind my statement about accuracy, but maintain my statement about misfiring.
 

Nouw

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There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men.

A thousand cookies and cake for reference.
 

Shadows Inc.

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Knifewounds said:
Toaster Hunter said:
The Katana is a great sword, but its really little more than a piece of sharpened metal. People argue that it was folded hundreds of times over during forging making it the perfect weapon, but this technique was used by the Celts centuries before the Japanese. It was good, but not as good as everyone makes it out to be.


Also, even simple chain-mail blocks it.
Dude, you can generalize any sword as being a piece of sharpened metal. Btw the celts used this process on iron to make their swords. The Japanese used tamahagane steel.
You do know that, that guy in the video has pretty much no idea what he is talking about right? Get a Japanese Bushido Samurai master trained in "The Ways of Old" and show that to him. There were a couple things right, a Katana can't slice through a machine-gun barrel, nor would you want to if the enemy is right there. What strikes me as hilarious is that he doesn't even have a forged 1040 or higher Katana, he has a display sword! Where does he get off trying to make a video about a Katana when he doesn't even have one? What he has is a $240 or less display sword, and I can tell from the sheath, the Tsuba, and the Rivets,which I don't think I can even call Rivets since it's not even full or half tang.
I could sit here all day and tell people about how he and you are so wrong it burns like masturbating with a bottle of Cinnamon and Habanero Fire Oil, but I'll just stop now.

P.S.
"simple chain-mail", can block anything because of its design. It's why we still use the simple design structure to make bullet resistant vests today.The only way to get through it is to thrust through it, which a Katana can do, because it has been documented in Japanese War history. Though the Ninjato is able to easily achieve this.
 

Shadows Inc.

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Jenkins said:
Shadows Inc. said:
Jenkins said:
hmm.

Bowie knife is just a big blade, thats it. nothing special about it.

Katana doesnt deserve to be on this list. its just a sword, nothing special there.

Halberds while cool were also crap, a weapon given to peasants enlisted in a lords army and usually for anti-cavalry. in reality if you got anywhere close this weapon itd be quiet easy to parry if you know how to use a sword and once you got past the blade part your screwed. unlike the crossbow which gave any farmhand long range and powerful shot. this weapon was NOT used by knights.

RPG7's are also craptastic but I guess they MIGHT deserve a spot here because they are easy to procure.

also if you need to put a bow, put the recurve or longbow up instead. the longbow was the English's secret weapon while the recurve bow made accuracy and power improvements with less effort.
You're an American aren't you?

what gave me away D:
The fact that you pay such little respect for revolutionary weapons, your understanding of said weapons is little to none and the quickest way out for you is to disagree, projectile weaponry seems to be your more favoured and because of it's lack of culture makes America an easy target, and the only weapon you seemed to be fond of is the cowards way out, making for last ditch attempts toward a losing battle, soon found as effective, is then resorted to the first choice. This... is what defined you as an American.
 

Krythe

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Disclaimer: This following article contains trolling gold against weaboos. If you are offended by a portrayal of Japanese "culture" from a source other than Rurouni Kenshin, please kill yourself.

A katana was mostly an piece of art, not a weapon.

-The edge was brittle, so you had to akwardly toggle between blocking with the back and attacking with the front.

-The weapon was double-handed, which meant you couldn't use a shield.

-They were impractical to make in large numbers and preserve quality, which hampers their use as a military weapon.

Bottom line: They're good to look at, but nothing more. Which is why they have such a heavy internet following. Most katana fans are 300lb WoW-addicts who would die within the first three seconds of an actual swordfight.