I've always been taught to debate like that, methodically and logically. Show the audience that you are addressing every point made, and why each one doesn't stand up. Addressing the whole argument in one go can get messy and difficult to follow for the audience.Gennadios said:
Topic: [OP has a view on Homosexuality]
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Yeah, I hate that too, but I occasionally feel forced to do it. After so long in an argument you'll find that you're making a point and then moving to the next point and it loses it's flow. Then one user is forced into separating them out and arguing each one as it's own argument. It's at that point where we need to stop.SaneAmongInsane said:
That should be the case but anti-gay people want to prevent gays from having fun which just does not sit well with me. Without pro-gays, regardless of their own sexuality, there might not be much stopping the anti-gays from having their way. I may not give a shit about sexuality of others, or even myself for that matter, but I figure I may as well fall on one side of the fence. It's not that I'm pro-gay, it's that I'm pro-do what ever the fuck you want.zelda2fanboy said:
OT: Point of this thread is what though? Everything ends in an argument on the internet, hell it happens all the time in person. Why fight it? Embrace the argument, the hate, and let it flow.
CAPTCHA/Solve Media: slimy goop. Nice one guys, nice one.
As a person who was bullied heavily through much of his life and who has not committed suicide, I find the concept of "bullying someone to kill themselves" to be ludicrous. A person can't force someone to kill themselves, especially not a bunch of dumb teenagers. Suicide by definition means "kiiling oneself." I hold no sympathies for the kids who do that to their families. I may not be gay, but I am a straight guy who was harassed by girls throughout much of his school experience, specifically for possibly being attracted to them. I may not know the gay experience, but I have an idea of what it's like to hate one's own sexuality and be filled with crippling shame about it every single day.Xanadu84 said:
And that's not a reason to kill yourself. It just isn't. And having strangers you'll never meet (or have sex with) tell you that it's okay to be gay (I'm just guessing) probably doesn't really help either. And the last example is a result of insane and ridiculous medical bureaucracy that isn't homophobic, but rather inhuman. It mistreats everybody regardless of their orientation or race.
Nor can you expect them to.Gennadios said:
A live debating forum has response times measured in seconds. You say something. If they're being polite, the other person listens, then responds when you're done talking.
If they're not, they'll interrupt you in the middle, and take over.
On a web forum like this, the response time is measured in minutes or even days.
Several days later, do you even remember what was going on well enough to limit what you say?
Forums are also a complete and utter headache to keep track of.
Considering what they're supposed to replicate, the way they're structured is very problematic, and often makes it incredibly difficult to follow what's actually going on.
(And nothing in my experience is quite as bad as a forum for something like 'tech support' or something similar. Whoever thought that using such a system was suited to anything other than blindly asking the same questions over and over again - Seriously, have you ever tried to find out if someone has answered your question already? Or anything similar in a forum?
It's a nightmare...)
Ahem. Where was I? Oh right. Forums also have an amazing ability to drift off-topic, in a way that would seem quite bizarre if you were in an actual discussion.
See GIFT: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19. That is the explanation for all nonsense that goes on within the series of tubes that is the internet. There really is no other reason. Anonymity on the internet is like alcohol, it is a truth serum. How you act on the internet and/or while drunk is how you actually are, everything else is just a mask to hide it.
Oh my god the passive aggressiveness is making me jittery, I think I love you. I internet love you.
So the whole thing is just people are super serious and debate about things on the internet. The kicker is that it helps no one, affects no one, pleases no one and is remembered by no one. Seems about right.
So the whole thing is just people are super serious and debate about things on the internet. The kicker is that it helps no one, affects no one, pleases no one and is remembered by no one. Seems about right.
Speaking as a homosexual, I do want the issues discussed a little bit. I mean 1 I get to vent my frustration about it online, something I can't do IRL because I would lose my job/family/friends over it.SaneAmongInsane said:
And it raises people awareness of it, I could see how it would get annoying if your not a homosexual, but on the flip side I get really annoyed about being threatened with death and second class citizenship so there is that.
The thing, is, depression can do things to your thought processes. I was bullied most of the school, and while I never wanted to kill myself I did want to die.zelda2fanboy said:
I also distanced myself from the only friend I had, because he got bullied too, and I viewed it as solely my fault. My mere presense was causing harm to everyone who was dear to me.
And religion wasn't involved. If the people surrounding you are convinced your gayness is against God, you can start to think you deserve to die, to avoid polluting anyone else with your gayness.
It's not like there's just one reason people commit suicide, but a hostile environment is certainly not going to help, and depression can fuck up your perception of reality to the extent you genuinely believe everyone would be happier if you died, especially if you have some mental problems.
But obviously not everyone is going to respond the same way.
However, even if it doesn't lead to suicide, doesn't in any way make it ok.
Not sure if referring to OP or the melodrama that is the replies missing the point...Forbearance said:
Captcha: Live transmission, I suppose.
That's all very true. However, people seem to act like suicide is a valid response to being bullied. "How DARE they bully that person to suicide!" Sorry, but bullying doesn't put a gun in your mouth. You do. And once a person does that, they are the ones responsible for their own death. No one else. Yeah, bullying isn't okay, but stop acting like it's murder because it's not. However, suicide is a form of murder and the perpetrator isn't some guy on a web forum or the play ground or facebook.Lieju said:
I agree.Lazier Than Thou said:
Though there are some people who are surprisingly stubborn, and also people who are surprisingly not stubborn. People who are shocking open minded. They may not even show it, but change their mind later and do a lot of self searching and challenging after the conversation is over or have changed to a new site.
It doesn't happen all that often, but it does. I also think that people are more influenced by others than they care to admit. Hence very furious and raging arguments of mud flinging that tend to show up. People are challenging themselves, but they don't want to admit it.
People are hot on homosexuality because it's a new "forbidden fruit" that is taking fire. It's nothing new, and everyone's going to make their choice regardless. It's been around for a very long time, I can daresay it was hot on the heals of heterosexual relations. Groups call it okay, other groups call it wrong, it's nothing new though.
That's not stopping the internet from persecuting anyone that disagrees with them though, especially if the target is religious, because as we all know, religious people belong in game culture just like women and new players.
Now, if a religious female that's new to game culture says that she believes homosexuality is wrong? Prepare yourself, the inbox is full. Even Escapist mods are taking a stand on this by warning the OP, who clearly went over the low-content post limit AND gave a basis for the "can we drop this pathetic display of humanity?" discussion.
With the internet being a spewing mass of hate speech, the overly-religious people trying to change the world instead of ACTUAL witnessing, and the homosexual fanatics wanting to have Christians arrested as if they were the KKK, I'm surprised our global situation hasn't fallen apart economically.
Oh wait...
That's not stopping the internet from persecuting anyone that disagrees with them though, especially if the target is religious, because as we all know, religious people belong in game culture just like women and new players.
Now, if a religious female that's new to game culture says that she believes homosexuality is wrong? Prepare yourself, the inbox is full. Even Escapist mods are taking a stand on this by warning the OP, who clearly went over the low-content post limit AND gave a basis for the "can we drop this pathetic display of humanity?" discussion.
With the internet being a spewing mass of hate speech, the overly-religious people trying to change the world instead of ACTUAL witnessing, and the homosexual fanatics wanting to have Christians arrested as if they were the KKK, I'm surprised our global situation hasn't fallen apart economically.
Oh wait...
Nice rant, OP. Feel better?
What you describe isn't just Internet debates. It's how EVERY argument over a topic in the history of mankind has gone. I don't think a single person has ever had their mind changed by what someone else told them in a discussion. What these discussions do is raise awareness about the issue for people who don't really have an opinion on it and provide some food for thought for both sides.
What you describe isn't just Internet debates. It's how EVERY argument over a topic in the history of mankind has gone. I don't think a single person has ever had their mind changed by what someone else told them in a discussion. What these discussions do is raise awareness about the issue for people who don't really have an opinion on it and provide some food for thought for both sides.