Topic: [OP has a view on Homosexuality]

[Watcheroftrends]

I find it quite illogical that people care about one's sexual orientation. Whether Adam and Eve down the street get married to each other impacts my life no more than Adam and Steve across the lane doing the same.

As far as the metaphysics on how people argue in this thread, it's unfortunate that it's become common place for oratory to take place over reason. In fact, the entire political system is a twisted sport of showmanship that is entirely detrimental to it's own original purpose.

People like a sense of community, and it's hard to get them to change for fear of losing that community. It takes critical thinking - philosophy - to get people to really understand the difference between an argument and a bias. We're supposed to be creatures of reason. Without that, what seperates us from the animals?

In short, I think religion is hindering humanity because it's literally a system of biases. Therefore, on the topic of homosexuality, I think it's absurd that people can waive around a 2000 year old book and think that's a good enough reason to make someone born gay have to live their entire life feeling as though there's something innately wrong with their being.

 

[Xanadu84]

Please take this as an opposing argument and not an insult, because I want to raise a point, not attack you. I see the point you wish to make. However, the gay kid bullied into suicide, the loving family man who gets assaulted while being called a, "******", and the significant other who has no say in his husbands end of life care has a serious interest in how other people percieve him as a homosexual.

As a person who was bullied heavily through much of his life and who has not committed suicide, I find the concept of "bullying someone to kill themselves" to be ludicrous. A person can't force someone to kill themselves, especially not a bunch of dumb teenagers. Suicide by definition means "kiiling oneself." I hold no sympathies for the kids who do that to their families. I may not be gay, but I am a straight guy who was harassed by girls throughout much of his school experience, specifically for possibly being attracted to them. I may not know the gay experience, but I have an idea of what it's like to hate one's own sexuality and be filled with crippling shame about it every single day.

And that's not a reason to kill yourself. It just isn't. And having strangers you'll never meet (or have sex with) tell you that it's okay to be gay (I'm just guessing) probably doesn't really help either. And the last example is a result of insane and ridiculous medical bureaucracy that isn't homophobic, but rather inhuman. It mistreats everybody regardless of their orientation or race.

If a person dies because of a peanut allergy, I have sympathy even though I can survive peanuts. The fact that you can survive ridicule is great, but even assuming that the experiences are equal, this does not change the cause or the tragic effect. Being weaker or more sensitive to judgement does not deserve death, and simply saying that one should be tougher is a useless philosophy. But at the core, I see a huge difference between the expected rejection of a boy by a girl, even a viscious rejection, and the complete disavowment of the core of your sexuality and personhood by a wide community that sees your very existence as a crime against nature deserving of being violently stamped out. Besides, there are plenty of outlets for the frusteration of a bad heterosexual. Love life. In some areas, making a gay kid feel that he deserves death is not only tolerated, but considered a holy crusade.

Acceptance of homosexuality can lead to things like gay marriage or other laws and social mores that grant gays the same rights as straights. Perception does lead to concrete injustices.

And lastly, you didn't respond to my second scenario.

I get what you are saying and I respect the argument. But the problem is that perception does not end at a persons brain. It can go on to ruin lives. Besides, isn't encourageing a belief in the truth a noble enough cause to merit discussion? Because to many bigots will turn there hate into suffering for others.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

In some areas, making a gay kid feel that he deserves death is not only tolerated, but considered a holy crusade.

I'm sorry but that statement is a gross misrepresentation of what Christians believe and I think you're smart enough to know that. Even the Westboro Baptists don't want gays to die, they just want them to repent (in theory.. what they really want is press). They'll stand on a corner and tell everyone that they're "happy" someone is dead and burning in Hell, but they won't want to drive a potential convert to death. That's not what they do, as fucked up as what they do is.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

What argument almost everyone here is for most things that are argued. Hell I'd go as far as to say this forum is a perfectly safe place to let people know your gay.

I don't see the conflict. Threads are more like this:

Angry news article stating someone who is against gays

Post wtf?

Post: this world is depressing

Post: What did they ever do to deserve this

Post: my best friend is gay and he gets treated just like this its so sad

etc and so forth.

The most bickering in this forum seems to be religion and politics, but even that is generally kept civil. Religion and politics is still something where its difficult to find strong moral ground because there is just so many levels to it. Its never just black and white. So people argue.

 

[Xanadu84]

In some areas, making a gay kid feel that he deserves death is not only tolerated, but considered a holy crusade.

I'm sorry but that statement is a gross misrepresentation of what Christians believe and I think you're smart enough to know that. Even the Westboro Baptists don't want gays to die, they just want them to repent (in theory.. what they really want is press). They'll stand on a corner and tell everyone that they're "happy" someone is dead and burning in Hell, but they won't want to drive a potential convert to death. That's not what they do, as fucked up as what they do is.

Believe me, I am a defender of Christianity, and I know that it is not that simple. I grew up with a church that voted almost unanimously to marry gay couples in our church before any state recognized those marriages. Note that I specifically did not say Christian.

Okay I said holy crusade as a figure of speech. I will concede that that was unintentionally misleading.

But go into a high school and listen to how a lot of guys talk, and even if the taunters don't consciously hope that they cause an actual suicide, they certainly impress an hatred on a gay kid that if successful, would make someone wish they were dead. Negitive perception will prevent this behavior from getting nipped in the bud.