Topless Women Not Breaking The Law, Says NYPD

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Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Shinsei-J said:
I just figured something must be stopping women from being naked in public.
From a practical standpoint, going topless as a female can be a hassle. Going down stairs without a bra is rough (all that bouncing causes a lot of uncomfortable tugging), and letting your boobs sag on their own weight for too long can cause them to prematurely sag (well, sag lower than they normally should). And even if you aren't running around or going down stairs, if your boobs are really big then the sagging can begin to hurt after a time on its own. Also there's the fact that in many places society still isn't quite acclimated to topless women yet, so all that attention can be more trouble than it's worth.
 

The Lunatic

Princess
Jun 3, 2010
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Lilani said:
No they haven't changed any "laws" by making anything new legal or illegal, but they have changed a pretty major distinction within their laws. The lewdness and public indecency laws still exist, New York is just making it to where exposed female breasts are no longer violations of these laws. So no laws changed, per se, but it is in effect legalizing female toplessness. So yeah, a pretty big deal actually.
If that's what you like to think, that's fine.

But, you're wrong.

Sorry.

Law was previous down to the cop's own idea of what counts as "Indecent" an opinion which is shared by many people.

Right or wrong. The law didn't get changed in any ways, the haven't made any "Major" distinctions.

They're just clarified the law, which was already there.

But, woo! Score for equality!
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Capitano Segnaposto said:
Oh god, just imagined the ugly chicks going without shirts. I think I threw up a little.
I [http://www.tbseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/old-dude-shirtless.jpg] feel [http://www.thelmagazine.com/binary/cfc0/1251128264-fat_dudes.jpg] so [http://dawncompk.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/old-man-no-shirt.jpg?w=201&h=223] bad [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0dsi1wusyNc/Tun_ac8jrKI/AAAAAAAAETk/mkvVsH8NdAo/s1600/jay%252C+no+shirt+in+portland+hotel+with+beard.jpg] for [https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2832891392/h76256455/] you. [http://wickedimproper.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/WI_Sox-fat.jpg]
 

Shinsei-J

Prunus Girl is best girl!
Apr 28, 2011
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Lilani said:
Shinsei-J said:
I just figured something must be stopping women from being naked in public.
From a practical standpoint, going topless as a female can be a hassle. Going down stairs without a bra is rough (all that bouncing causes a lot of uncomfortable tugging), and letting your boobs sag on their own weight for too long can cause them to prematurely sag (well, sag lower than they normally should). And even if you aren't running around or going down stairs, if your boobs are really big then the sagging can begin to hurt after a time on its own. Also there's the fact that in many places society still isn't quite acclimated to topless women yet, so all that attention can be more trouble than it's worth.
Question answered, thanks for that.
Didn't really think about it from that perspective.
 

Boris Goodenough

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Jul 15, 2009
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Darken12 said:
Male galactorrhea is a well documented condition
When you are a newborn baby, someone in puperty (and only for a short time) or there is something hormonally wrong with you, so not THAT normal :p
 

freaper

snuggere mongool
Apr 3, 2010
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Capitano Segnaposto said:
Oh god, just imagined the ugly chicks going without shirts. I think I threw up a little.
Oh don't worry your head about such things. There's still a barrier of institutionalised lack of confidence those women have to go through.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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There is no really nice way to say this, but I think this is one of those cases where people are just being stupid. At the end of the day men and women are not inherently equal, face it, men are far more physically capable, and max out higher pound for pound. In general women are more likely to be victims and are portrayed that way so often because that's how things are in reality, if some 6' guy wants to have his way with some 5' 5" girl, chances are in reality he can and the only thing holding him back is of course morality, society, and a sense of right and wrong.

Now, a lot of people are probably frothing in rage at this point, and perhaps even wondering why I point this out. The reason is that at the end of the day the idea of equality is for women, who are just as intelligent and as self aware as men, are allowed to participate in and have a say in society. The basic idea being that women should not be oppressed simply for being women, especially given how enabling technology has been. HOWEVER the idea of such social arguments should not be taken to imply that men and women are identical with the same capabilities, or viewed the same way
within society. Like it or not, male and female nudity are two entirely different things as far as both social and instinctual reaction goes. Simply put a shirtless guy might make someone a bit uncomfortable (but more often than not won't be noticed in the right context), but women running around topless get an entirely different reaction, female breasts being heavily sexualized, and reaction-getting whether they should be or not.

Like it or not, upper body nudity for men and women is different, the latter causes a lot more problems as people react to it as fair as that might be. As the notification to the police itself points out this kind of thing can cause massive disturbances of the peace, which is why it's mentioned that the woman can't be targeted for causing that (as would normally apply) but rather the crowd has to be handled. In short these laws are pretty much asking for problems, and the notification for the police pretty much admits it.

Now do not get me wrong, this is largely a social issue right now, and something that could be corrected over time, since the problems revolve largely around perception. This is the wrong way to do it right now, and pretty much is asking to cause chaos and problems. What I feel they should do is keep the general laws in place where women need to cover their upper regions in the general public, but loosen them in specific places, say allowing women to go topless
at public beaches/pools and such. Work into it gradually and loosen up the laws as society changes and adapts to the idea over a period of time.

As I see things if some dude crashes a car because there are women walking around topless on the sidewalk, that's their fault, not his. Similar to other distracting behavior from pedestrians (which can vary from area to area in what is allowed). It might not be fair, but society and it's trained reactions are what they are, which can be said for gender issues in general. In this case this is one that can be changed, but deciding to try and perform this radical alteration all at once like this is a bad idea, and going by the instructions to the police it seems like even the lawmakers kind of know what's going to happen here.

At any rate, despite this huge mouthful I've dropped, I can't see a huge demand for women to go running around topless in New York City anyway, so it might largely be an academic argument in the long run. I still maintain that it's a mistake, and the kind of idea that sounds good on paper or as a matter of principle, but doesn't take reality into account. I personally am waiting for someone to crash a car over this like mentioned above, and to see what happens.
 

nuba km

New member
Jun 7, 2010
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Darken12 said:
nuba km said:
1. why my argument is circular, because frankly I don't see your logic behind that beyond not wanting to address any points in it.
2. anything at all in my entire post
Your argument is "this should be considered lewd because female breasts are considered sexual, and they're considered sexual because they're considered sexual." That's circular logic.

I'm not addressing the rest of your post because I have already done so in the thread. If you cannot be bothered to read the thread, I cannot be bothered to repeat myself.
I have stated that sexual is a non existing property that is only given by society so something, anything, is only as sexual as society views it. Its like money is worth something because it is worth something. If you are saying that because of that logic breast shouldn't be considered sexual then nothing should be considered sexual and money shouldn't be worth anything. Now I hear you saying 'that's just a slippery slope argument' well that is correct but that leads me to my next point. Everyone draws a line at what point you should stop with what cloths you can and can't take off. Society normally draws it at what is commonly accepted as sexual and I am saying that for this to be a movement for gender equality both genders should be allowed to have a same amount of "sexual" revealed. So either society has to shift for boobs to no longer to be sexual for this to be equal for both genders or men would have to allowed to maybe show one testicle (sometimes they just need to cool down).
 

nuba km

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Jun 7, 2010
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Lilani said:
nuba km said:
because society, its stupid I know but men boobs are (as far as the common person is considered) not sexual in fact owning them has the opposite effect of female boobs in a lot of cases. Like money certain values only exist as far as we attribute them, hence if men boobs were considered sexual society would have made us cover them up. I mean in many African countries boobs aren't considered sexual and hence no one has a problem with woman having them out all the time. When it comes to most 1st world countries, female boobs, penie(or is it penises), vaginas, testicles and butts are considered sexual and hence are all covered up. Not that I agree with this, I have nothing against nudity, all I am saying is a topless man isn't the same as a topless woman until female boobs are no longer sexual. I also say woman being allowed to wear trousers wasn't a moment of gender equality because men could still not wear skirts and dresses.
It is not the role of the law to stand up for and uphold societal stigmas. It isn't illegal to swear or make profane gestures, and unless it qualifies as harassment or a threat you can't get the authorities to make people stop doing these things. If you have a problem with them, you are free to look the other way or remove yourself from the situation. It is the role of laws to keep us safe, not to make sure we aren't put into situations that make us a bit uncomfortable.

Because if the law was to keep us from being uncomfortable, I'd make a law against people talking to retailers, waiters, or anyone else working in the customer service industry about conspiracies, religion, politics, or anything else they feel strongly about that might launch them into a tirade. There's nothing more uncomfortable than being bound by the obligations of providing good customer service to listen to some random person rave on about the pharmaceutical industry for 10 minutes while there are others behind them who are waiting to be helped.

And as for the post you made before this one, as has been pointed out to you already female breasts are categorized the same as male breasts when it comes to which parts of the anatomy have sexual functions, as secondary sexual organs. Breasts are not comparable to testicles in this way because you don't have sex with them.
Please to not misunderstand me, I agree with woman being allowed to have their breasts out in public.

What I am saying is that this isn't a move for gender equality as the imaginary property of "sexual" Is applied to female breasts heavily while it is applied to a negative level with male breast. The only reason a society covers body parts is because their considered too sexual. So either for this to be a movement towards gender equality female breast have to stop being considered sexual or men have to be allowed to show some of their sexual organs. Otherwise the genders are being treated unequally which wouldn't be a move for gender equality.
 

Drago-Morph

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Mar 28, 2010
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manic_depressive13 said:
Yuuki said:
Perhaps if it was empty when you went in, but are you going to tell me with a straight face that if you walked into a women's restroom while it had a bunch of women in there they'd be totally fine with it?

I'm aware it's not technically illegal, but if you didn't immediately leave then at least one of the women would try to call police/security to get you seized on grounds of being a sexual predator (even though you're not).

Anyone who finds a guy in a women's bathroom is going to judge you on the fucking spot no matter what your reasons may be, it could really suck!
Obviously if a woman was found in a men's bathroom then guys would be quite polite to her, asking if she was confused/lost. Or if she was really desperate to use the toilet, they'd most likely even let her use it. But in the opposite situation I guarantee you at least some degree of shit will hit the fan if women are around, beware! :p
Do you seriously believe that? If I was in the bathroom when a man walked in I would assume he made a mistake, or his bathroom was full, or his bathroom was dirty, or he just walked into the first bathroom he found because he was busting.

And I wouldn't give a shit. Nobody would give a shit. There are a few unisex bathrooms at my uni and, you guessed it, no one gives a shit.
I feel like there's a serious shortcoming of your university's bathroom technology if no one's giving a shit.
 

nuba km

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Jun 7, 2010
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suasartes said:
nuba km said:
I have stated that sexual is a non existing property that is only given by society so something, anything, is only as sexual as society views it.
So ... you don't think that the sex organs are sexual? Perhaps I'm just seeing things through a skewed vision that has been shaped and moulded by social and cultural expectations, but I would sort of argue that the fact that genitals exist for the purpose of sex makes them pretty sexual.
well society uses sexual to describe something that is inappropriate for public view and results in arousal. Everyone has penis or vagina so why are those inappropriate to have out in public so that value of them being sexual is made up. in the same money having value is made up. A made up value is one that varies from person to person and not about the current state of existence the object is in, i.e. a non measurable value.
 

pixius

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Jun 9, 2013
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I actually don't see the issue here to begin with; the female body has become far too fetishised. It just seems to be a winner all round to me. Women get to go topless on a hot day if they so desire and boobs are awesome for everyone. Now if only England could get some decent weather... I'm feeling like shocking the locals.
 

BiscuitTrouser

Elite Member
May 19, 2008
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nuba km said:
well society uses sexual to describe something that is inappropriate for public view and results in arousal. Everyone has penis or vagina so why are those inappropriate to have out in public so that value of them being sexual is made up. in the same money having value is made up. A made up value is one that varies from person to person and not about the current state of existence the object is in, i.e. a non measurable value.
Being bare assed (which is neccessary for being naked there basically) leaves literal shit on things and would spread crabs and other disgusting secretions on seats and the ground. Thats a real reason. Thats why its not cool, in my view, to be nude in day to day life. Breasts dont do that.