Trading card games

[Jonluw]

Hiya escapists.

A friend of mine recently started playing Magic: the gathering; and as a consequence, I have also been playing the game a lot, using his decks.

Having gotten a taste of trading card gaming, I decided to dig something out of my room that I hadn't touched in a while: My old Duel masters cards. Now, I don't have all that many cards, so I can not make very advanced decks, but I am having fun never the less.

Spoiler: Spoilered to keep my post neat

What I've noticed though, is that, to me, Duel masters - a game that I believe is thought of as "kiddy" - seems to be more strategically advanced and deep than Magic - the game I thought was the more mature of the two.

While playing Magic, I often feel like I am merely playing out the cards in my hand: There is almost always an obvious choice.
While playing Duel masters however, I feel I need to prioritize, and less is left to luck due to the abscence of "lands".

Realizing this, I decided to do some research on the web: It turns out that while Duel masters has been discontinued in the west, it is the most popular trading card game in Asia (according to wikipedia). Now I am left with a decent Duel masters craving and I wish they would start selling it in the west again (though I probably couldn't afford to play it).

My questions to you are these:
Why did Duel masters get labelled a kids game? (My guess is the anime being aired as a childrens show)
What trading card game do you prefer, and why?

 

[Marter]

I'm not sure why Duel Masters was considered a child's game, but it wasn't for me, that's for sure.

My favorite trading card game was Yu-Gi-Oh!. I really enjoyed playing it when I was younger, and actually was pretty good. (I think. )

I played Magic a couple times, but couldn't really get into it. I never really liked Duel Masters.

The only other TCG I ever played was Pokemon, and I would have played it more, but no one else I knew had the cards to face me.

 

[nightfish]

I use to play MTG with the 4th and 5th ed and now I'm casually just finishing of the collections.

 

[Gigaguy64]

I think Duel Masters was labeled Kiddy because of that "Thing" that was Aired on Cartoon Network for a while*Shudders^

I Collect and Play the Bleach, Naruto, and Maple Story Card Games.
I have a few cards from the DBZ and Blue Dragon Card games as well.

 

[Crayzor]

I used to love Yu-Gi-Oh!. Hell, I still have the deck I spent ages putting together. It's a shame I have no one to play with anymore.

 

[BlindMessiah94]

I play a lot of TCG's and by far I think MTG is the most strategic. I don't know what kind of decks your friend is using but If you are merely just playing the cards in you hand with no synergy he probably just has some really basic decks.

 

[Jonluw]

I play a lot of TCG's and by far I think MTG is the most strategic. I don't know what kind of decks your friend is using but If you are merely just playing the cards in you hand with no synergy he probably just has some really basic decks.

It is very possible his decks are basic; but still, I miss the aspect of prioritizing what cards to use for mana, and what cards to keep. In magic, my hand often consists of some cards that can only be used for mana, and only a few that I can actually cast, and I rarely have to make a choice regarding what spells to cast, since the lands taking up space in my hand means I almost never find myself in a situation where I hold several spells that I can afford to cast.

 

[Orbert]

I've never played Duel Masters, and I played the Pokemon one when I was like, 10, so... we kind of just made up the rules.

I have however played a lot of MtG, and from what the OP describes, he's concerned with the limitation of the hand. Well, I think that's because MtG is largely about deck construction. You can't just make a deck with 40 single cards and 20 land and expect it to perform well. You have to construct the deck in such a way that unless you get really bad luck, you'll get what you want. You do this firstly by putting in 4 (the maximum allowed in a deck) of the key cards you want, using search cards to allow you to search your deck for cards you want, and by drawing cards. If you look at the pro decks, they only have 10-15 different cards, but there's 3-4 of almost all of them so that their deck can be as consistent as possible.

I really enjoy playing magic with my friends. It's kind of what we do together; we've been playing for almost 10 years now (since we were around 12) together. MtG releases a lot of new sets with new mechanics, so if we take a break for a couple of years we can just jump in and draft the new set. I find there's lots of different strategies you can do. Attacking with creatures quickly to try to kill your opponent before they can get their good stuff out, getting huge creatures out to roll over your opponent's smaller creatures. You can even do no creatures at all, preferring to control play some other way (which is difficult, but rewarding sometimes).

My friend even made a deck that without one card literally could not win. It was full of a bunch of crap, but one card, Shared Fate, made it so each player would draw from the opposite player's deck, which means you'd be drawing all of his crap and he'd be drawing your good cards!

 

[Orbert]

You definitely have to do a lot of prioritizing in MtG! Sometimes there will be a key exchange and if you don't play the cards in just the right order your opponent will be given a huge edge. It's awesome when you see exactly what you need to do and then play four cards out of your hand and a creature ability or two to completely blow the door open or finish off your opponent.

 

[Chogg Van Helsing]

me and my friends play mtg quite a lot now lol

we stopped for a while, but we've started again lol

SHIVAN DRAGON!!! lol

 

[sunburst]

I was always partial to Yugioh and Magic, but I played a little L5R or Pokemon from time to time. I've only played Duel Masters once, but I did win that match. After all, I'm the King of Games (or at least I should be). Still, I only play card games on motorcycles.

As for Duel Masters being labeled a children's card game, that's because it's...a children's card game. It was also bland for seasoned gamers.

 

[Jonluw]

I'
I have however played a lot of MtG, and from what the OP describes, he's concerned with the limitation of the hand. Well, I think that's because MtG is largely about deck construction. You can't just make a deck with 40 single cards and 20 land and expect it to perform well. You have to construct the deck in such a way that unless you get really bad luck, you'll get what you want. You do this firstly by putting in 4 (the maximum allowed in a deck) of the key cards you want, using search cards to allow you to search your deck for cards you want, and by drawing cards. If you look at the pro decks, they only have 10-15 different cards, but there's 3-4 of almost all of them so that their deck can be as consistent as possible.

This is what bothers me. When playing a game I feel like I am just following a predetermined plan, whereas in Duel masters I have to make tactical decisions and sort of make a plan for each individual game. In magic each player might as well just set up their moves before the game begins, and have the game play out automatically (in my opinion, that is).

 

[(sic) humor]

Yeah, the Cartoon Network show didn't help Duel Master's rep (which is a shame, because the show was actually light-hearted and not afraid to make fun of itself, which is a big improvement on Yu-gi-oh. Moreover, it actually played by its own game's rules, whereas Yugi couldn't go two episodes without playing his coveted Deux Ex Machina (tm) to get out of a tight spot).

Yu-gi-oh (the game) wasn't bad, but I prefer Magic. It was the first real TCG, almost every current one owes it something, and it contains an impressive amount of strategy and depth.

On a sidenote, YU-gi-oh online is largely played by thirteen-year old boys who are, for lack of a scientific term, complete bastards. The Magic community is much better moderated, and it really does make it more enjoyable.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

While playing Magic, I often feel like I am merely playing out the cards in my hand: There is almost always an obvious choice.
While playing Duel masters however, I feel I need to prioritize, and less is left to luck due to the abscence of "lands".

It sounds like you aren't playing Magic at a very high level, then. Card interactions get very complicated very fast, and in most cases, while there often is a "best" option, it's rarely self evident. As for your second complaint; while I can't speak for Duel Masters, I know Yugioh, for example, winds up being less strategic due to the lack of a mana-style resource.

A well built Magic deck run by a skilled player is not going to lose due to mana screw -- or at least, not very often. Mana makes players think a bit more about what they play -- for example, the player can tap out completely, and get something big out, or a lot of smaller things, but then they have no way of responding during their opponent's turn. Resource management allows for these decisions to matter, whereas if the game simply lets you play a given amount of cards a turn, strategy largely flies out the window.

 

[Jonluw]

While playing Magic, I often feel like I am merely playing out the cards in my hand: There is almost always an obvious choice.
While playing Duel masters however, I feel I need to prioritize, and less is left to luck due to the abscence of "lands".

It sounds like you aren't playing Magic at a very high level, then. Card interactions get very complicated very fast, and in most cases, while there often is a "best" option, it's rarely self evident. As for your second complaint; while I can't speak for Duel Masters, I know Yugioh, for example, winds up being less strategic due to the lack of a mana-style resource.

A well built Magic deck run by a skilled player is not going to lose due to mana screw -- or at least, not very often. Mana makes players think a bit more about what they play -- for example, the player can tap out completely, and get something big out, or a lot of smaller things, but then they have no way of responding during their opponent's turn. Resource management allows for these decisions to matter, whereas if the game simply lets you play a given amount of cards a turn, strategy largely flies out the window.

In Duel masters you do have mana sources that work a lot like lands. The difference is that any card, be it a creature or a spell, can be used as a "land", thus creating the need to think about what you put in your mana-zone; as opposed to mindlessly throwing whatever land is currently on your hand out there.
Edit: And yes, different colour creatures creates/needs different colour mana.

And no. I am not playing at a very high level: Some of the most complicated card interactions I regularly encounter is "Khalni heart expedition + Harrow = lots of lands" and "Expedition map -> Eye of Ugin -> High power colourless Eldrazi creature"

Edit: I just noticed that this post makes me seem kind of angry and hateful towards magic. This is not the case, I merely got a little fired up.

 

[Truehare]

I can't give my opinion, because I've neverplayed Magic (just watched others playing) and I don't have a clue what Duel Masters is.

I only came here because I noticed I'm cursed with liking the wrong games. The ones I played and loved were Illuminatti - New World Order and Mythos. Both got discontinued, as far as I know...

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

In Duel masters you do have mana sources that work a lot like lands. The difference is that any card, be it a creature or a spell, can be used as a "land", thus creating the need to think about what you put in your mana-zone; as opposed to mindlessly throwing whatever land is currently on your hand out there.
Edit: And yes, different colour creatures creates/needs different colour mana.

And no. I am not playing at a very high level: Some of the most complicated card interactions I regularly encounter is "Khalni heart expedition + Harrow = lots of lands" and "Expedition map -> Eye of Ugin -> High power colourless Eldrazi creature"

Well, that makes more sense. Yay me arguing from ignorance about Duel Masters...

However, I wouldn't call playing lands in Magic "mindless." If you're playing a single color deck with nothing but basic lands, then yes, you just play whatever land you have in your hand. However, most decks have non-basic lands in them, and many have more than one color as well. Once you add that, suddenly playing lands gets strategic. For example; many non-basic lands require you to play them tapped and return a land already on the field to your hand. If you play them before any other lands, you have to wait a turn before you use them, but you don't have to worry about the bounce effect. Either way, you have to worry about the fact that you have a card on the field that you can't use for a turn. At this point, you have to decide whether the drawback is worth the reward at this exact moment, or if you're better off playing a different land -- or even no land at all.

Basically, you're playing Duel Masters at a high level, but you've barely scratched the surface of what Magic has to offer. Stick with it -- and try to find a group that's been playing for a while -- and you might find out that it's better than you think.

 

[Jonluw]

However, I wouldn't call playing lands in Magic "mindless." If you're playing a single color deck with nothing but basic lands, then yes, you just play whatever land you have in your hand. However, most decks have non-basic lands in them, and many have more than one color as well. Once you add that, suddenly playing lands gets strategic. For example; many non-basic lands require you to play them tapped and return a land already on the field to your hand. If you play them before any other lands, you have to wait a turn before you use them, but you don't have to worry about the bounce effect. Either way, you have to worry about the fact that you have a card on the field that you can't use for a turn. At this point, you have to decide whether the drawback is worth the reward at this exact moment, or if you're better off playing a different land -- or even no land at all.

I am aware that playing lands in Magic is not completely mindless, I was only extrapolating a bit. I have experience with both Khalni garden, Piranha marsh, and numerous other lands that enter the battlefield tapped (I did mention Eye of Ugin in my previous post).

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

I am aware that playing lands in Magic is not completely mindless, I was only extrapolating a bit. I have experience with both Khalni garden, Piranha marsh, and numerous other lands that enter the battlefield tapped (I did mention Eye of Ugin in my previous post).

Fair enough. Like I said, it really comes down to the skill level of everyone involved. Maybe Duel Masters really is that much more strategic than Magic, but I'd like to see what your opinion is after joining an established group. It's too bad I can't show you my group...

 

[BlumiereBleck]

I used to love Yu-Gi-Oh!. Hell, I still have the deck I spent ages putting together. It's a shame I have no one to play with anymore.

Amen! Those were the days of childhood.