Trailers: Star Wars: The Old Republic: Trooper Progression

[rsvp42]

Man, this looks godawful. To think I was expecting this game to be good.

They don't like the game (that isn't released yet) because the unfinished animations are not finished (shock horror)

Dude. You do not put unfinished animations in a trailer. A trailer needs to present what the game has to offer. You don't make the game look like some wonky piece of shit and expect people to buy it. Besides, animations aren't made IN PARTS. By all we have going so far, these will be the final animations before launch.

Isn't that what Blizzard did with Diablo 3?Halfbaked ingame animations as trailers...

Half baked ingame animations with a 19 minute gameplay video, demonstration of multiple named skills with distinct effects on different enemy types, a full demonstration of the environment and its uses in combat, a full fledged boss fight and further explanation of how you can expand and make your abilities unique.

The trailer looks good as long as you ignore what it was demonstrating. Its ok the animations are choppy, that not what it was about. Its ok the combat looked like it just consisted of clicking on inert enemies and using a skill every once in a while, they'll fix that later. Its ok that the AI didn't know how to do anything but stand still and shoot, that's not important now. Its ok it didn't show mission structure besides a guy shooting a computer console and then running away, they'll work on that later. Its ok that it didn't show any RPG elements or actual use of named abilities, that's for later. Its ok it didn't show any level design but a valley and a place with chest high walls, the level design team is still working on it.

So what did the trailer show? It showed that you can specialize in 2 different trees, both apparently capable of tanking and dealing damage, with 1 heal ability. It showed that shooting things happens. It showed that the game might actually exist. That's about it.

Dude if you'd followed the game, you'd know that these trailers are primarily to show a few armor types for each Advanced Class. A secondary goal is showing a few abilities, some of which we haven't seen before. These are just little treats, not big trailers meant to sell the whole game.

Here are some other types of trailers:
Fate of the Galaxy - This one is all about the overall game and shows both combat and story while giving an overview of the situation in the game. This is more of a traditional marketing trailer.

Taral V Developer Walkthrough - This showcases the first section of a multiplayer story instance in the game, complete with developer commentary and explanation. Rather broad and not aimed at the MMO veterans per se, but gives a good look at the flow of combat and the different roles.

Sith Inquisitor - This one is about showcasing a specific class and giving a taste of its abilities and the tone of its story in the game.

I'm not trying to patronize you or anything, I'm just pointing out that there are different trailers with specific goals. Part of this is that they do updates every Friday so they split up their information into smaller chunks like this.

Also, why are people talking about AI when these are all staged scenarios?

 

[Faerillis]

Alright, so I love Star Wars and I look forward to trying SWTOR but that looks really bland. Also, unless I am misremembering (in which case please correct me, I have not been following this religiously), BioWare plans to make it more individualistic which kind of undermines the point of an MMO.

Also, and this irks me in any game, I realize Vanguard has 'guard' in its name but the vanguard does not have anything to do with guarding. The Vanguard goes in first, not blocking. How about Officer, Elite, Guardian or Warden? Just annoys me.

 

[F-I-D-O]

The Vanguard's gun looked more like a DC-17, which is more in line with the commando's weapons in Republic Commando.
Whereas the big machine gun...why does "commando" always mean I HAVE BIGGER GUNS! Still looked cool, but wasn't the image in my head when I thought commando. That looked more like Ordo's style from KOTOR
If I end up playing SW:OR, Vanguard for me. Seemed like a nice mix

 

[rsvp42]

Also, and this irks me in any game, I realize Vanguard has 'guard' in its name but the vanguard does not have anything to do with guarding. The Vanguard goes in first, not blocking. How about Officer, Elite, Guardian or Warden? Just annoys me.

Well Vanguards can tank, so they do go in first to grab aggro. However, they also have a DPS spec, so they can forget all about guarding if they want.

 

[Faerillis]

Also, and this irks me in any game, I realize Vanguard has 'guard' in its name but the vanguard does not have anything to do with guarding. The Vanguard goes in first, not blocking. How about Officer, Elite, Guardian or Warden? Just annoys me.

Well Vanguards can tank, so they do go in first to grab aggro. However, they also have a DPS spec, so they can forget all about guarding if they want.

Its just the name itself that irks me. It sounds cool and Bioware loves it, and I love Bioware.

 

[timeadept]

Am I the only one who watched this and spent the entire time audibly complaining to myself about how bad his tactics were?

If you can kill the guy with one hit, why not do that instead of wasting the carbonate grenade?
If your rifle has a grenade launcher, why not open up with that when fighting a large group instead of killing the group BEFORE using the grenade on the strongest one? Also, if you have a shield that explodes why not use that before your allies die? selfish bastard. Not to mention the shoot two guys, run up and punch the 3rd.

I also love how the guys he was fighting were equally as stupid, the snipers didn't know when to duck. The foot soldiers shot at the guy behind cover instead of the guy standing out in the open with the biggest gun, and so on.

I don't know, maybe they were hoping that this video will be seen by the easily impressed or those who are already sold on the game and have faith that all these skills will actually be useful instead of just "look what I can do!", and I know I'm way past the point when it became apparent that I wouldn't like this game, but I still wish that this was a game that I could like, and that they were ditching the KotOR combat system in favor of something more fun.

 

[timeadept]

Am I the only one who watched this and spent the entire time audibly complaining to myself about how bad his tactics were?

If you can kill the guy with one hit, why not do that instead of wasting the carbonate grenade?
If your rifle has a grenade launcher, why not open up with that when fighting a large group instead of killing the group BEFORE using the grenade on the strongest one? Also, if you have a shield that explodes why not use that before your allies die? selfish bastard. Not to mention the shoot two guys, run up and punch the 3rd.

I also love how the guys he was fighting were equally as stupid, the snipers didn't know when to duck. The foot soldiers shot at the guy behind cover instead of the guy standing out in the open with the biggest gun, and so on.

I don't know, maybe they were hoping that this video will be seen by the easily impressed or those who are already sold on the game and have faith that all these skills will actually be useful instead of just "look what I can do!", and I know I'm way past the point when it became apparent that I wouldn't like this game, but I still wish that this was a game that I could like, and that they were ditching the KotOR combat system in favor of something more fun.

Early reports state that the game is actually quite difficult, with Players taking on sometimes 3-4 enemies that are 1-2 levels higher than you, so CC abilities like that freeze thing, and AoEs like the grenade will be really useful. Also, these are not meant to show the games AI or even how players will play, it's just some of the abilities with some armor progression.

Sounds like some TACTICS might be useful to try then. Like idk, killing one guy instantly, freezing a second (assuming the skill is still on CD or won't be as effective on the new target) then killing the 3rd before the 2nd can get back in the fight. Or why not shoot the big droid in the center with the grenade, clean up the weakened little droids and then finish the big one?

Taking on foes who are a higher level than you is purely up to the player though. At least it is unless they made the idiotic decision to make the difficulty fixed by always having the player fight enemies 1 to 2 lvls higher than themselves. In which case the game will always be impossibly difficult for some, consistently challenging for others, and boringly easy for the rest. I understand that the AI doesn't have to look impressive, but after you witness such glaring mistakes you tend to attack the little things that weren't meant to matter too. So the initial lack of polish makes the whole thing look bad.

Besides, what's the point in showing off a skill if you're not going to show off how to use it correctly?

 

[Zer_]

I can tell that few of you here saw the 1 hour and a half long gameplay footage.

As a Jedi, you must craft your own lightsaber at level 10. That is all you need to know.

Oh and capes in the game look freakin amazing. Robes too, they shake and move with your character's body.

EDIT: Don't ask me for a source, the video was not endorsed by BioWare, and has since been taken down.

 

[timeadept]

Sounds like some TACTICS might be useful to try then. Like idk, killing one guy instantly, freezing a second (assuming the skill is still on CD or won't be as effective on the new target) then killing the 3rd before the 2nd can get back in the fight. Or why not shoot the big droid in the center with the grenade, clean up the weakened little droids and then finish the big one?

This is NOT MEANT TO INDICATE HOW A PLAYER SHOULD PLAY THE GAME. THIS IS NOT ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE. I can't stress this enough, you don't seem to understand that these trailers are not intended to show how you should play or even what the game plays like.

Taking on foes who are a higher level than you is purely up to the player though. At least it is unless they made the idiotic decision to make the difficulty fixed by always having the player fight enemies 1 to 2 lvls higher than themselves. In which case the game will always be impossibly difficult for some, consistently challenging for others, and boringly easy for the rest. I understand that the AI doesn't have to look impressive, but after you witness such glaring mistakes you tend to attack the little things that weren't meant to matter too. So the initial lack of polish makes the whole thing look bad.

Actually whether or not you're fighting mobs higher level than you is not up to the player, the content is designed around it. The reports I've read stated that the game isn't easy, even from the beginning, it forces players to try new tactics, and to use all of your abilities effectively. The game isn't impossible, but it is say, harder than WoW is at the same level. Theres nothing wrong with the AI in the game, I don't see any mistakes in the AI in any gameplay footage i have seen. So i have no idea where this whole "lack of polish in the AI" comes from.

Besides, what's the point in showing off a skill if you're not going to show off how to use it correctly?

Because they don't want to show you how to play the game?

Sounds a bit pointless then, why include skills in the trailer if you're not going to show how they're used? Why am I supposed to be impressed by this skill if I they don't show it used in situations where it's most useful? "Oh cool, I can punch a guy in the face!" Why would I ever do that when I have a gun? In any case, how does the skill mean anything if you take it out of the context of the game?

Maybe you didn't understand me but I was pointing out the fact that all players are not equally skilled. If you make the game have a fixed difficulty then it could very well be impossible for some players. If you don't let less experienced players tackle content that is below their level then they're likely to quit the game out of frustration and not learn at all.

I understand that this is a "controlled environment", they're not showing actual gameplay footage, but that's no reason why they can't make the skills look impressive. In fact, it would be incredibly easy to set up scenarios to showcase just how good each skill is and in which situation it's meant to be used. It's just lazy to not do that.

I was referring to lack of polish in the video, not the AI btw.

 

[WorldFree55]

This game is going to be epic. I played one of the flash points at Pax East 2011 as a Trooper and a Jedi Councilor (well there ADVANCED classes anyway but still), and the game was great and believe it or not, MUCH different then most mmorpgs i have played (which was A LOT). Just because of little things like no auto attack. Seriously the game practically has you keeping your hands busy during the action/combat.

Also to the people that think there will be 99% jedi's, I very much doubt this. This is not SWG. Especially for me since I'm rolling as a Bounty Hunter. I'm saying this because every class in this game feel like your role in the universe are as important if not more important then the other classes. There is no weak link class that is treated as a support class that can't defend itself on it's own compared to the others *cough* Hunter in WoW *cough*. And all of them are as fun as the other no matter what class you pick.

Will there be more Jedi's in the game then other classes? Probably yeah, only because there are two classes in each faction that are jedi or dark jedi (sith). But i don't believe that there will be as much as people here think there will be, nor close to the amount of 99% of the entire game. Again, a bounty Hunter or trooper or any other class can just as easily kill a jedi and vice versa.

 

[timeadept]

Sounds a bit pointless then, why include skills in the trailer if you're not going to show how they're used? Why am I supposed to be impressed by this skill if I they don't show it used in situations where it's most useful? "Oh cool, I can punch a guy in the face!" Why would I ever do that when I have a gun? In any case, how does the skill mean anything if you take it out of the context of the game?

Maybe you didn't understand me but I was pointing out the fact that all players are not equally skilled. If you make the game have a fixed difficulty then it could very well be impossible for some players. If you don't let less experienced players tackle content that is below their level then they're likely to quit the game out of frustration and not learn at all.

I understand that this is a "controlled environment", they're not showing actual gameplay footage, but that's no reason why they can't make the skills look impressive. In fact, it would be incredibly easy to set up scenarios to showcase just how good each skill is and in which situation it's meant to be used. It's just lazy to not do that.

I was referring to lack of polish in the video, not the AI btw.

Because Bioware doesn't want to hold the players hand in doing everything, thats why. This applies to your concerns about difficulty as well, appealing to the lowest common denominator only serves to drive off the the hardcore playerbase, while ensuring that the people at the endgame don't know how to play. WoW suffers a lot from the this, the leveling content is too easy, so when players level up to 85 and jump into their first heroic, they are surprised at how difficult it actually is. The game should encourage you to try new tactics on a harder encounter, even while leveling, it teaches players how to play. At the same time the game is a lot more forgiving than WoW is, when you die you rez at "med centers" where the only penalty for dying is some minor durability loss on gear.Like i said the game isn't impossible, and it does encourage you to group up with other players through things like Heroic Quests and such.

Theres actually only a couple of skill demonstrated in this video, most of which we've seen before. The ones i've seen for the trooper and the other classes are quite impressive so far (especially the Inquisitor, which looked awesome).

about the lack of polish in the video: probably stems from how they had to bend the engine to get the recording for the abilities, GW2 suffers from the same clunky animations in its class videos as well. Both not indicative of how polished the games actually are.

Sounds like a risky plan, make an EXTREMELY expensive game*, alienate the casual crowd, and hope the thing is able to float long enough to turn a profit. Besides, I don't always want a challenge in games, I've stopped playing some because I couldn't get a brake. I would decide that it was too stressful (whether or not i was doing well), take some time off from the game and never come back because I knew the time investment I would have to make in order to get back into the game. Or what if i'm having difficulty on a certain part and just want to let off my frustration by slaughtering a bunch of mobs? Looks like I can't, so because I can't vent this anger I end up turning it on the game. Now I'm angry at the game and never want to play it again. Or more realistically, I finally get off out of frustration and whenever I think of playing the game again the first thing I remember is that frustration and I decide I'm better off without it?

Besides, what if the game doesn't challenge me at all? Now I have to grind through a bunch of boring content in order to get to the interesting(?) stuff. What if their idea of difficulty* is my idea of a walk in the park? They're not going to let me fight stronger enemies just for the challenge? Even worse, what if they do allow this but don't scale up the rewards? Now I have no motivation for taking on a challenge, for the same time investment I could snooze my way through 10 times the content and make 10 times the exp. Now I don't want to play the game because it's too easy.

Besides, we're arguing a tangent. My main point was that I was not impressed with what I saw in the video and so it looked worse because I started noticing things that I would normally understand and Ignore, even if I never liked them.

And again, you still haven't given me a reason that I find acceptable as to why they didn't bother to show the skills being used correctly. "Because they don't want to hold your hand." doesn't even make scene. What? I'm going to start playing the game and they're not even going to bother giving me a tutorial? They're just going to give me skills and say "figure it out"? I'm more likely to stick to what I know works then and then get stuck when I finally need to step up my game and by then I will have forgotten all about the skill I got 5 lvls ago that I never used.

*EDIT* and if it's not too late to add this, the death penalties sound identical to WoW. In WoW, when you die you rez at a "grave yard" where you can decide to walk to your body (and not fight everything on your way there) and rez with only a minor durability loss, OR you can rez at the graveyard, take a significant durability penalty and take care of some of your professions and inventory management for 10 min.

The differences seem insignificant to me.

 

[WorldFree55]

Am I the only one who watched this and spent the entire time audibly complaining to myself about how bad his tactics were?

If you can kill the guy with one hit, why not do that instead of wasting the carbonate grenade?
If your rifle has a grenade launcher, why not open up with that when fighting a large group instead of killing the group BEFORE using the grenade on the strongest one? Also, if you have a shield that explodes why not use that before your allies die? selfish bastard. Not to mention the shoot two guys, run up and punch the 3rd.

I also love how the guys he was fighting were equally as stupid, the snipers didn't know when to duck. The foot soldiers shot at the guy behind cover instead of the guy standing out in the open with the biggest gun, and so on.

I don't know, maybe they were hoping that this video will be seen by the easily impressed or those who are already sold on the game and have faith that all these skills will actually be useful instead of just "look what I can do!", and I know I'm way past the point when it became apparent that I wouldn't like this game, but I still wish that this was a game that I could like, and that they were ditching the KotOR combat system in favor of something more fun.

Early reports state that the game is actually quite difficult, with Players taking on sometimes 3-4 enemies that are 1-2 levels higher than you, so CC abilities like that freeze thing, and AoEs like the grenade will be really useful. Also, these are not meant to show the games AI or even how players will play, it's just some of the abilities with some armor progression.

This flash point i played along with 3 other random people i teamed up with was hard as hell. I don't feel like going into too much detail but basically there was a boss who also had a pet rancor that was treated as the mini-boss in the level that you and your group had to fight at the same time. However there is a catch, once one of them dies (say the boss), then the pet rancor goes into a berserk rage that raises almost every single stat and attribute that just a hit from this guy would kill a quarter of your health. It would work if either the pet rancor or the boss died. So you had to actually work together and tried to keep both alive and watch their health as it drops low enough but just enough so that you don't kill it yet until the other boss has low health. In other words, keep them both at low health at the same time so that the berserk rage won't last that long once one of them dies.

It was not as easy as that sounded. Especially teaming up with random people lol.