Transgender People and Attraction OR The Inherent Homophobia in Society

[Jonluw]

Yes, there is more to attraction than physical appearance.

I'm not sure we should jump from that to blaming the lack of attraction towards physically attractive transsexuals on homophobia though.

Personally, I wouldn't be with someone I knew was transsexual. Why, I cannot readily answer, but I have an innate aversion to the idea.
I suppose it might be something biological. Like you say, I am attracted to female physical traits, but I think you're wrong when you claim that's all that matters biologically.
I think if you consider someone to be of a sex you are not attracted to, that overrides their outward appearance.

Then there's the fact that the inability to carry forth a child is considered by many to be rather unattractive. Which I can understand. It makes sense from both a personal and a biological standpoint.

 

[Palademon]

Well, a transwoman is kind of like Brutal Legend. I asked for action and you snuck in RTS.
Does this suddenly mean I'm not allowed to complain about the RTS? No.

Ofcourse I've had the weird factor, but I'm not homophobic. I dream of finding the right woman, and to me the idea that to find them they'd have to be born a man, saddens me. It's much easier to find men like me than women. Am I supposed to feel better just because they've dedicated themselves to becoming a woman?

Also I don't particularly like thinking about people's organs. The idea that the sexual organs were surgically tampered disturbs me a little. I wouldn't be with someone who had cosmetic surgery either.

 

[Batou667]

I wouldn't want a relationship with a trans"woman".

That's not out of homophobia - if I decided to turn gay I'd find myself a nice strapping guy and do things properly. It's because I don't buy the idea (as you no doubt gathered from my other recent posts on the matter) that a man who lops off his genitals, gets implants, takes hormones and dresses up pretty is a woman on any meaningful level. They might bear an outwards resemblance to a female, but in my opinion, they just aren't and no amount of sympathy, politically-correct shaming or wishful thinking will change that. Sorry.

 

[JoJo]

Adoption is a thing. Just sayin'.

I had a feeling that point might come up.

Adoption would be an option for a trans-person and their partner, but it's far harder than birthing your own child. You can't just go down to an orphanage and pick a child. In the UK at-least, you and your partner first have to under very detailed checks that often take between 1 and 3 years to complete. The social workers judging can look at everything... money, your house, your job hours, your medical history... and reject you without even giving a reason. I'd gander a guess and say that while they aren't meant to, a large number of social workers might not consider a transwoman/man up to standard. If you make it through that, then they try to pair you with a suitable child... which again can takes years to find and finalise the adoption through court. Once you've finally adopted your child, you've often got to learn how to care and control a child who's been neglected or abused by their previous carers, certainly tougher than raising a kid from scratch.

My long and rambling point is that the assumption that adoption is an equal alternative to having your own child is mistaken. To those who fight their way through the red tape and successfully adopt, the greatest respect, but it's not for everyone. Anyone who wanted children and was with a trans-person would have to think long and hard about whether they could go through with that or not.

 

[Psykoma]

So now for the discussion, if you're one of those people who wouldn't sleep with a transperson, what's your reasoning?

Um, as far as I'm aware, transmen dont generally have a functional downstairs, so I dont think I would.

Hmm, not actually sure about that. Any transmen out there willing to confirm or deny this? I'm pretty sure transwomen (remember, this means men who become women) can have sex.

And I suppose you don't really need a functional downstairs, there are other methods available.

Transwoman here.

Basically,as crude as it is:
'It's easier to make a hole from a pole than a pole from a hole.'

Transwomen, unless there was some massive thing gone wrong with surgery usually have 6-8 inches in depth (unless they didn't mind having less), they can self lubricate (though not always enough, and would have to use extra lubrication), and can orgasm. The operation for male to females is pretty damn good.

Transmen, is another thing altogether. Obviously I'm not a transman, so I'm not exactly sure, but as far as I know a lot of transmen don't go for gender reassignment surgery because of how archaic the surgery procedures are (nothing at all against those who do get it <3 you all).
There are a couple options for them, one is that the surgeon creates the penis from grafts around the body, and how they get an erection is controlled by a device in the body, that I think you can press and get the erection (don't hold me to that, it's what I had read a long time ago :/ ) I don't know if they can get an orgasm with this option :S
Another option is that with the testosterone, the clitoris (which is the same actual organ that becomes a penis for men when they're in the womb) will expand, generally to 2-4 inches long, and can act as a penis for the transmen (I've been told by friends who apparently researched this, but a woman only needs about 3 inches of penetration to achieve an orgasm?) With this option I'd imagine that they could get erections and orgasm, because it is the exact same skin in the same orientation that would have become a penis during pregnancy in cis-men.

Also, yes, although I am sterile since about 2 months after starting testosterone blockers, and will be going through GRS, I do want kids. Whether that's adopted,kids from a previous relationship of someone I may meet, or if someone I may meet wants to use his own sperm to make some kids and have a surrogate undergo the pregnancy.

And don't worry the people who cringe in fear of the thought of a trans person dating, I've been asked out before, and before I even respond to their question, I make sure they understand that I'm trans and what that means. >.>

 

[SeriousIssues]

With a natural aversion to having sex with men (Not homophobia), I think that pretty much explains any reluctance to have any relations with a transgender.

It's kinda like eating an overly-exotic food. No matter how normal of a food it seems (Tastes like chicken!), it just isn't the same.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

the man doesn't consider the transwoman a "real woman"

That's my entire reason. All the operations in the world aren't going to make you a real woman to me, you're still kinda a dude and that's all it really takes.

 

[isometry]

I wonder if men who refuse to accept transwomen on principle have ever heard of Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome.

People with this condition are born with an XY (male) sex chromosome, but their body does not react to testosterone so the fetus never masculinizes and they are born as girls. Here is some info:

"Women with AIS look and feel like typical women, and in every practical, social, legal, and everyday sense they are women, even though congenitally they have testes and XY chromosomes, and can never bear children.

Unlike with MTF transsexual women, no court has ever disputed the right of an AIS woman to legally marry a man and adopt children on the grounds that she's actually genetically XY male. However, an adult AIS woman is physically (internally and externally) almost indistinguishable from a MTF transsexual woman who started surgical and hormonal treatment before puberty.

According to one paper the AIS woman is "often voluptuously feminine", another report says "some people with the syndrome look like 'mama mia' women", and even John Money and A. Ehrhardt in their famous book Man and Woman, Boy and Girl noted that AIS girls tend to have a "very attractive female physique".

Unsurprisingly it's been reported "because they [AIS women] are unusually beautiful, they are usually found in occupations that pay high salaries for attractive female appearance such as modelling, acting or prostitution"."

 

[Shockolate]

Two of my friends recently became transwoman.

Which is weird, because one was a ladies man and the other was a "tank", by that I mean I beefy person who works out a lot. Now they are both extremely effeminate, not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just the change was particularly jarring.

I still call one of them by her previous name occasionally.

I'm not attracted to either, though. Yes, it's because I still mostly recognize them as male. Yeah, I'm okay with their change, but I wasn't attracted even before their change.

 

[The Mighty Thesaurus]

I could have sex with a black person, but I'm personally disgusted by that.

Oh shit, I'm using the wrong form of bigotry. My bad, guys.

 

[DazBurger]

Why cant you guys just accept me as the narwhale I so urge to be?

Its phobic to do otherwise!! You nazies!!!!

 

[loch belthadd]

It's a subconscious thing for me. I instantly and automatically lose all attraction to a person if they are trans.
But I don't care what you want to do to your crotch. It's not my crotch, so I couldn't care less about what you do to it.

 

[Psykoma]

Two of my friends recently became transwoman.

Which is weird, because one was a ladies man and the other was a "tank", by that I mean I beefy person who works out a lot. Now they are both extremely effeminate, not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just the change was particularly jarring.

I still call one of them by her previous name occasionally.

I'm not attracted to either, though. Yes, it's because I still mostly recognize them as male. Yeah, I'm okay with their change, but I wasn't attracted even before their change.

I can maybe explain that. I was called the most masculine of my group before I came out.

The reason is that transitioning is often a very scary thing for a trans person to accept, so like me, transwoman could try as hard as they damn well could to be the epitome of 'male' (sleeping with large amounts of women, being massive muscled/working out a lot), to find some shade of manhood that they can accept, before they're willing to face the transition.

 

[kyle_silver]

I am a gay American male, and I would be intimate with a Trans-person of either gender, so long as I can relate to them on an emotional basis and they are genuinely nice and fun to be around. I feel that Homophobia and Trans-phobia are irrational fears, as Humans are, by nature set up to be Bisexual in nature. See the Kinsey Scale and most other works done by professionals in this sort of area.

 

[Metanar]

Why cant you guys just accept me as the narwhale I so urge to be?

Its phobic to do otherwise!! You nazies!!!!

This type of thing is incredibly offensive from the eyes of someone suffering from a recognised medical condition.

The problem with a lot of you is that you see some kind of additional idea of sex; there's sex, your actual physical form, your gender, the sex that you identify as and then a lot of you are creating this brand new spiritual permanent variable that determines, in your minds, what sex a person actually is. If a person looks like a woman and identifies as a woman (and trust me, it's not just "acting" like some of you are crudely putting it, these people including myself are far beyond the realms of acting like the gender we identify as) then why are you so opposed to the idea of being with them? Children? You can adopt? Sex? Works just fine, trust me on that. Looks? This one is pretty obvious.

Of course a lot of people will go all scientific and say "well biologically you're X, not Y which you identify as", except that's a load of shit and anyone can see that because the only defining thing that you could possibly be referring to once a transsexual has undergone HRT and SRS is DNA, and when the fuck did people start caring about the DNA of the person they love? Oh no, you've got the wrong chromosomes, not touching you with a 50 foot pole!

But do you know what, referring back to the post I quoted, I don't give a fuck if you are too immature to accept people as the gender they identify as, but at least have the respect and courtesy to refer to them as their chosen gender. Just because you can't deal with the idea that someone identifies as a different gender to the sex they were born as doesn't mean you should go around offending people who do. Grow up.

 

[Chicago Ted]

Uh, I think the Escapist ate my post, so I'll make (roughly) the same post again, forgive me if it's a repeat.

Eventually I concluded that the inherent fault here is society (though I always end up blaming society), specifically, as you may have guessed from the title, the inherent homophobia in society. Because here's the thing, what is it exactly about a transwoman that puts off certain men (assuming the transwomen looks like an attractive woman). Surely the only reasons are either that the man doesn't consider the transwoman a "real woman" (a very transphobic and unfair viewpoint) or because of the fact there is a remote connection to maleness.

Well there is the part about them not actually being a "real woman" and the fact that its true.

Okay, I won't attack you about the "real woman" thing, instead I'll take a different line and approach your comment from a different angle.

Why does the fact they aren't a "real woman" put you off? Surely if they're attractive to you, that's good! After all, it isn't the concept of female you're attracted to, it's the female form that matters to your body. So if a transwoman has an attractive female form, what's the issue?

At it's heart, your put off by the idea that a transwoman is, in your mind, a man. And that exposes the homophobia in society, because it isn't that you don't find men attractive and don't sleep with them because of that (otherwise you'd be happy to sleep with this transwoman), instead, because of society, the idea of sleeping with men is "EWWW! Gross!" and the idea of anything even close to that is repulsive to you.

Well, as far as I'm concerned, a transwoman =/= a real woman. They will remain a transwoman for a couple major reasons.

1) The inability to bear children themselves due to the missing parts

2) The lack of XX chromosomes

Now, you can dress it up all you like, but the fact is to me, they are still not true women.

Not to say that I'm against this or anything, or the process, or people changing their gender, but to me a transwoman still doesn't classify as a real woman. If at some point they are able to have the ability to have children themselves and the gain the proper chromosomes, then I may reclassify, but until then I can not call them a real woman.

And don't take this as transophobic or whatever it was you were calling it. To me, this is just fact. They may no longer be a man, but they have not really become a woman. Because of this, I would personally not seek to have a relationship with the individual.

 

[Metanar]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, a transwoman =/= a real woman. They will remain a transwoman for a couple major reasons.

1) The inability to bear children themselves due to the missing parts

2) The lack of XX chromosomes

Now, you can dress it up all you like, but the fact is to me, they are still not true women.

Not to say that I'm against this or anything, or the process, or people changing their gender, but to me a transwoman still doesn't classify as a real woman. If at some point they are able to have the ability to have children themselves and the gain the proper chromosomes, then I may reclassify, but until then I can not call them a real woman.

And don't take this as transophobic or whatever it was you were calling it. To me, this is just fact. They may no longer be a man, but they have not really become a woman. Because of this, I would personally not seek to have a relationship with the individual.

So they ability to have children and DNA are more important to you than how a person identifies and looks, and in fact all of the other qualities that a human being may possess? Honestly I pity you because that is incredibly stupid and immature.

Other than that you used the word gender incorrectly, gender of course referring to the entirely internal identity one sustains, whereas sex would have been appropriate (sex being the external identity that everyone can see).

You also said that you weren't transphobic, except, get this, you are quite literally the definition of transphobic as you are in fact demonstrating prejudice against trans people by not treating them exactly the same as people of the sex that they identify as.

 

[ks1234]

I'm not going to read through the entire thread but here's my two cents...
I'm not attracted to men (I'm a guy) BUT actually have given this topic some thought and I have come to this conclusion- If it looks like a woman, sounds like a woman, smells like a woman, acts like a woman, and it doesn't have a penis... it may as well be a woman... I can definitely see the argument both ways but honestly, if I cant tell a difference between a real woman and a TG woman... who cares?

 

[Slayer_2]

Because I've yet to see a tanswoman that looks even slightly attractive to me, sexually. Hell, I'm known as the guy with really low standards for women, so it's not like I'm expecting a super model like half my friends are. Not that I've met any transgender people my age. Also, I've never seen an artificial vagina, but I highly doubt they look like the real thing, or work the same. Artificial body parts rarely work as well as the real ones. People can do what they want, but when it comes to what I want to stick my dick in, tramswomen are not on the list (currently, anyhow, maybe when technology advances more).