Transgender Q & A

[redhatman]

I've heard that transgender people (at least some of them, pardon my limited experience) 'feel' that they were born the wrong way or the wrong gender or somehow are off and thus are transgender as a way to correct that. I don't understand that since I don't know what it 'feels' like to be a gender or to be the wrong gender. I understand social structures built around gender and I understand being attracted to a different sex then a straight person, but feminism seeks to end limiting and unfair gender structures, and homosexuals and bisexuals exist, so obviously those things aren't the same since they are addressed with different outcomes. I can assume that this 'feeling' of a gender is something I have yet to consider and thus have overlooked and I'd like your insight into what exactly is at the core of what defines one's gender and how one feels their gender. I think I'll be missing a critical component that I need to understand sexuality in general until I can figure it out.

Most, if not all, of us feel a sense of gender dysphoria. Why this happens is not fully explained as of yet, but with recent studies we have a generally good idea as to what causes it. In the womb, as a child develops, they go through several chemical washes that are designated by the genetic code of the individual, usually resulting in a normal child. With us transgendered people, this process is generally disrupted in one form or another, only resulting in a partial, if not nonexistent, chemical wash of the corresponding hormone. The brain develops along a different path than the body, resulting in the dysphoric feelings that many of us first make sense of around ages 4 and 5. You don't feel anything like this because you got the right balance of your sex's hormone during this period, and as such, do not experience the feelings we do. The closest parallel that I can give is one a poster mentioned in a previous thread: it's kinda like phantom limb syndrome: you have a mental blueprint of your body, and when you lose a limb you have phantom sensations that your mind is telling you are coming from your limb, but it's not there. Gender dysphoria is something of a similar sensation.

Do you know the names/dates of any of these studies? I am not trans gender myself but i am very close friends with someone who is, and i would like to know more about the physiological/psychological side of things. I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who considers themselves trans gender, and i hope that one day the ignorant in society will feel the same way.

 

[an annoyed writer]

I've heard that transgender people (at least some of them, pardon my limited experience) 'feel' that they were born the wrong way or the wrong gender or somehow are off and thus are transgender as a way to correct that. I don't understand that since I don't know what it 'feels' like to be a gender or to be the wrong gender. I understand social structures built around gender and I understand being attracted to a different sex then a straight person, but feminism seeks to end limiting and unfair gender structures, and homosexuals and bisexuals exist, so obviously those things aren't the same since they are addressed with different outcomes. I can assume that this 'feeling' of a gender is something I have yet to consider and thus have overlooked and I'd like your insight into what exactly is at the core of what defines one's gender and how one feels their gender. I think I'll be missing a critical component that I need to understand sexuality in general until I can figure it out.

Most, if not all, of us feel a sense of gender dysphoria. Why this happens is not fully explained as of yet, but with recent studies we have a generally good idea as to what causes it. In the womb, as a child develops, they go through several chemical washes that are designated by the genetic code of the individual, usually resulting in a normal child. With us transgendered people, this process is generally disrupted in one form or another, only resulting in a partial, if not nonexistent, chemical wash of the corresponding hormone. The brain develops along a different path than the body, resulting in the dysphoric feelings that many of us first make sense of around ages 4 and 5. You don't feel anything like this because you got the right balance of your sex's hormone during this period, and as such, do not experience the feelings we do. The closest parallel that I can give is one a poster mentioned in a previous thread: it's kinda like phantom limb syndrome: you have a mental blueprint of your body, and when you lose a limb you have phantom sensations that your mind is telling you are coming from your limb, but it's not there. Gender dysphoria is something of a similar sensation.

Do you know the names/dates of any of these studies? I am not trans gender myself but i am very close friends with someone who is, and i would like to know more about the physiological/psychological side of things. I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who considers themselves trans gender, and i hope that one day the ignorant in society will feel the same way.

I can think of two right off the top of my head here: Zhou Et. Al(1995) and Kruijver Et. Al(2000) being the oldest ones that I remember. There's plenty of others (the wikipedia page on the subject is surprisingly comprehensive, for what it's worth, plenty of sources listed) so look those up if you're interested.

 

[redhatman]

I've heard that transgender people (at least some of them, pardon my limited experience) 'feel' that they were born the wrong way or the wrong gender or somehow are off and thus are transgender as a way to correct that. I don't understand that since I don't know what it 'feels' like to be a gender or to be the wrong gender. I understand social structures built around gender and I understand being attracted to a different sex then a straight person, but feminism seeks to end limiting and unfair gender structures, and homosexuals and bisexuals exist, so obviously those things aren't the same since they are addressed with different outcomes. I can assume that this 'feeling' of a gender is something I have yet to consider and thus have overlooked and I'd like your insight into what exactly is at the core of what defines one's gender and how one feels their gender. I think I'll be missing a critical component that I need to understand sexuality in general until I can figure it out.

Most, if not all, of us feel a sense of gender dysphoria. Why this happens is not fully explained as of yet, but with recent studies we have a generally good idea as to what causes it. In the womb, as a child develops, they go through several chemical washes that are designated by the genetic code of the individual, usually resulting in a normal child. With us transgendered people, this process is generally disrupted in one form or another, only resulting in a partial, if not nonexistent, chemical wash of the corresponding hormone. The brain develops along a different path than the body, resulting in the dysphoric feelings that many of us first make sense of around ages 4 and 5. You don't feel anything like this because you got the right balance of your sex's hormone during this period, and as such, do not experience the feelings we do. The closest parallel that I can give is one a poster mentioned in a previous thread: it's kinda like phantom limb syndrome: you have a mental blueprint of your body, and when you lose a limb you have phantom sensations that your mind is telling you are coming from your limb, but it's not there. Gender dysphoria is something of a similar sensation.

Do you know the names/dates of any of these studies? I am not trans gender myself but i am very close friends with someone who is, and i would like to know more about the physiological/psychological side of things. I have a huge amount of respect for anyone who considers themselves trans gender, and i hope that one day the ignorant in society will feel the same way.

I can think of two right off the top of my head here: Zhou Et. Al(1995) and Kruijver Et. Al(2000) being the oldest ones that I remember. There's plenty of others (the wikipedia page on the subject is surprisingly comprehensive, for what it's worth, plenty of sources listed) so look those up if you're interested.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Zeema]

snip

Second one: Why are you all so sweet ? I've never talked to a single trans that wasn't sweet and nice. Tell us your secret teehee

we are actually made out of chocolate

but dont tell anyone, its a secret

 

[an annoyed writer]

snip

Second one: Why are you all so sweet ? I've never talked to a single trans that wasn't sweet and nice. Tell us your secret teehee

we are actually made out of chocolate

but dont tell anyone, its a secret

SHIET! CODE RED! CODE RED! SOMEONE PEEPED! QUICK! INTO THE VAULT! ACTIVATE THE DEFENSE SYSTEMS!

 

[DataSnake]

Second one: Why are you all so sweet ? I've never talked to a single trans that wasn't sweet and nice. Tell us your secret teehee

This is just a guess[footnote]Translation: I'm probably way off, but here goes...[/footnote], but you probably have. You just don't know it because they weren't confident enough in their identity to be "out". To risk the judgment that society places on people who are openly transgender, someone would have to be pretty secure, which would also make them less likely to overcompensate for low self-esteem by being a raging dickhead.

 

[Alex Graves]

It's cool to see so many posts on here that I will get to read(can only really use my internet connection between 00:00 and 05:00 (in whatever timezone central US is(to lazy to google ATM))so ill be reading them all in a few hours...till then). I am male and not one to ever talk about these things (even on the net) but I have always felt like I wasn't, I ignored it for a long time and just disregarded it as a side affect of...well other problems...(if I start on the topic this post will be a small book on the shit storm of my life >.> so to save time just "problems") I feel weird when I think about it, part of me wants to go through with a gender change and the other half is...well afraid...mostly of what will happen if others know I even think about it or go through it, humans (at least all the ones I've met IRL) aren't very accepting and tend to be very judgmental/quick to attack others. I think that's enough of my back story info(before I end up off topic) so on to questions (and sorry if you have already answered some of these in one way or another).

1. Is it common to or did you have a hard time with people accepting you when you told them you were trans, or when you went through the ops?
2. For those who are post-op, did your body fully change, did everything physically adjust the way you wanted?(Oh, this...I have a bit of a big bone structure and I'm not sure how I would look after the change)If this one is to personal I understand (I've always had problems with my figure(feel like a cave troll most of the time T.T) so answer this one however you feel comfortable.
3. Another for post-op, did any of your habits/interests change? Like maybe your opinion towards a show, or a food you did/didn't like before?
4. Is it easier having others know your trans? Do you have trans friends you hang out with? Are there many open IRL with anyone other then friends?(I have only met two who were openly trans, and only about three-five cross dressers(one of them kept saying they were dared to do it so I wasn't sure on him))
5. Is/was it hard to change your voice? I am sure I would want to sound different when I look different (though I have no idea what I sound like, the whole re-verb thing and all) but I don't know if it is easy to do or if I even could.
6. For those who had to hide their trans side for a long time, did it make it harder to open up to people or get the op for any that are also post-op?
7. Is it just me or do all these questions make me sound very proud of myself? (Sorry, had to make a joke here to get myself to giggle a bit...I don't like reminding myself that a huge part of me is always hiding, it's hard not being myself all the time.

I think that is it for now, thank you for your replies and I look forward to reading all of this thread.

 

[Alex Graves]

If its a matter of your internet not working, rather than having to be elsewhere, then open up all the pages in separate tabs.

We only have 10g a month, which i know a forum page won't take much of that but i don't want my little bit to push it over since the others tend to not even think about it.(10g for 5 about to be 7 people is annoying to think about) There is a 5 hour window starting at midnight where it doesn't take the data down any, which is when i try to do all my things. I also have a bad habit of not stopping at just a few pages so i try not to start that before my safe time slots.(It's a side affect of my personality to make any/all sacrifices to make even one person happier...I'm getting better at not being a total doormat...but it's hard to brake 20 years worth of bad habits all at once.)

This is why I hate the term "sex change operation" because it implies its a one-step process. Although they might exist, I've never heard of a person who only had the genital reconstruction. For everybody I've ever encountered there have been multiple steps. The first step is typically hormone-replacement therapy, and almost everybody who is transgender undergoes it. There's actually quite a few people who are comfortable without GCS/SRS (Gender Confirmation Surgery and Sex Reassignment Surgery, respectively - far better terms than "sex change operation"). Everybody is a bit different in their process.

Sorry, I'm not used to talking about this so I wasn't sure which terms were toe-steppers. I also never get the chance to really look things up, almost always someone looking over my shoulder to see what I'm doing(I am pretty sure they all think I just sit and watch porn all day or something with the way they act with me being on my computer.) I'll be sure to look more into it, I usually try to look over things first...I sort of jumped without thinking here.

Most male-to-female I've talked to started acknowledging a growing attraction to men sometime after starting hormones.

That is an interesting thought...still unsure which side of that fence i stand on though so just another thing to think about for me.

The voice of female-to-male people change when they take T, but for male-to-female, theres more effort involved. You can do a risky surgery that changes your vocal cords for you, or you can just practice. A female voice is something pretty much most males are capable of having. I've also heard that when some people have their Adam's Apple shaved, it affects the voice a bit as well.

I'm not sure on vocal surgery, heard to many people lose there voice permanently.(Even as little as I talk i still want to talk)

From what I've seen from others, the further you push it into the closet, the more shit you have to sift through when you come out. Lets ignore every physical benefit for transitioning at a younger age - when you're older, you have a career position you can lose, years of job experience because many don't want to list former employers who knew them as a different gender, problems with every friend you've made and the family that you may have built. A lot of people have trouble with their kids, and I've heard stories where some parents were never talked to again by their own kids. Its definitely in your benefit to transition at an earlier age.

I'm not sure how to take this one...it is nice to think I should be at an age where it is easier to transition, but I wonder if I already have to much clutter in the closet with me.

Thank you for the reply, and I think I will pop up the other pages in my browser like you suggested when I switch my connection back on to send this.
[/quote]

 

[Twilight_guy]

snip

You're not describing Feminism, Feminism is about the rights of women in society. The idea of rejecting societal notions of gender roles is more of a Humanist idea.

Feminism is about gender equality, not the rights of women. It just so happens that women happen to have less power in society. Its the same way that racial equality doesn't seek to improve the lives on non-white people, it seeks to end racial inequality, it just so happens that white people have more power at the moment.

Feminism often involves ending gender based prejudice and unfair structures of power in order to bring about gender equality. When "the system" works against you, it becomes necessary to try and rework the system.

I disagree. If Feminism is about ending gender based prejudice then how come Masculism exists to support the rights of men. Because Feminism only helps women, which draws up cultural gender barriers and creates an Us Vs Them attitude between Feminists and Everyone Else. What we should be doing is not focusing on the rights of me and women but the rights of HUMAN BEINGS.

fem·i·nism
noun \ˈfe-mə-ˌni-zəm\
Definition of FEMINISM
1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

I've always heard the first definition. I've never heard of anything like "Masculism" used to describe a movement ever. I've never seen any feminist who created any sort of division beyond the people who want gender equality and those who don't, thought outright stating that you think women are inferior is not usually said due to it being political suicide, as well as those who with some people who consider feminist to be man-haters and such. I know that there have been a number of waves of feminist with different ideals and some were more militant then others, possibly creating divisions I'm not familiar with. I also know that people fighting for gender equality are fighting Human Beings because they fight prejudice (primarily one certain kind of prejudice but I won't begrudge people for having a focus). I don't know what your experiences are with feminists but mine are clearly different. I hope my experiences characterize the greater portion of the world though as your experiences seem more bleak.

 

[tarantula]

....

From what I've seen from others, the further you push it into the closet, the more shit you have to sift through when you come out. Lets ignore every physical benefit for transitioning at a younger age - when you're older, you have a career position you can lose, years of job experience because many don't want to list former employers who knew them as a different gender, problems with every friend you've made and the family that you may have built. A lot of people have trouble with their kids, and I've heard stories where some parents were never talked to again by their own kids. Its definitely in your benefit to transition at an earlier age.

I'm not sure how to take this one...it is nice to think I should be at an age where it is easier to transition, but I wonder if I already have to much clutter in the closet with me.

There was lots of misery and struggle, there were years of depression, some chronic, others over the untimely death of a son, bouts of under-employment, a bankruptcy, continued struggles with self image, expensive medical treatments, ongoing therapy, blah..blah...blah. As many have reported, the older the gender disphoric get, the more they start seeing transition or suicide as their only opportunities for peace.

In other ways I was supremely lucky: naturally low on testosterone, so my first puberty didn't hit very hard, never pushed toward male behaviors as a youth, estranged from my family early on for unrelated reasons, married a lesbian leaning bisexual who'd never really thought of me as male, my kids, aged 4 and 10 when I started, and my wife, who is also my BFF since high school, all managed my transition easily, I was working in industries (engineering and software dev) that are fairly accepting of the marginal.

Our kids, though straight, have always collected LGBT kids and brought them home to us like stray kittens. Many of our friends, and our kid's friends, kinda see us as a poster family for LGBT; some have said that just knowing a family like ours is possible gave them hope for a future.

Alex, get yourself to a gender-aware therapist. The LGBT community centers, even in smallish cities, usually can provide leads to support resources, and may well run a support group. Just an hour or two of honest conversation with a cognizant specialist will help you better understand your own needs and identity and may change your entire life. I cannot say what your path might be, but I will say that life becomes unimaginably richer when you can live as yourself, possibly putting aside a crippling mask of a mis-assigned gender.

And don't be too concerned about how beautiful or feminine you might become. Even if you never have the chance to be the perfect flower you imagined as a teenager, being an old comfy fat broad surrounded by people that know you and love your true self is way better than the alternatives.

 

[WWmelb]

Okay, wow. After reading all 9 pages of this thread and seeing just about every question i had answered, i'm left with only a few words, and a final question at the end.

Transcommunity of the escapist. You are all fantastic. Well of you that have participated in this thread are and i cannot comment on those that haven't.

But wow. What an amazing bunch of people to have been through such a life dilemma, and to have come out so .. positive? friendly? helpful? All of the above? It is a delight to see and i thank you for it.

So, having had every possible question that ever rattled through my somewhat inefficient brain answered, i'm left with one question...

Are any of you wonderful women in Australia? Or visiting australia soon? Because i think ALL of you would be wonderful dating candidates regardless of current transitional moment.

Spoiler

That was partly serious / partly joke. I'm not a stalker... really

 

[Yureina]

When I saw this thread on the "most comments" list, I found myself thinking "oh great, here we go again. Another TG thread that probably started nice and then turned into an ugly flame war when some wanker showed up to cause trouble." Now... I only read the first and last page, so for all I know this happened, but... I didn't see it. That makes me happy.

That's... all I really wanted to say. I don't have any questions to ask about this. Not anymore, at least.

*offer hugs* Here's to hoping that those of you that face these concerns can come through it a better and happier person, however you choose to deal with it. :3

- Rei

 

[WWmelb]

Are any of you wonderful women in Australia? Or visiting australia soon? Because i think ALL of you would be wonderful dating candidates regardless of current transitional moment.

Eww, overpriced retail prices for games. No thank you. Blech.

Hey they are getting better slowly... only had to pay 79.95 for hitman upon release, better than the old $120 that we had to deal with

capcha: until next time

appropriate lol

 

[Angelowl]

But wow. What an amazing bunch of people to have been through such a life dilemma, and to have come out so .. positive? friendly? helpful? All of the above? It is a delight to see and i thank you for it.

To give a boring answer, it's complicated. Getting rid of the depression, getting hormones, new friends. It's a huge difference. Even though I fucked up my first year in a civil engineer programme I actually have a chance to live now. I can look forward, plan, do what I like and so on. Partly is that for years I wanted to be able to live and enjoy life. Now that I have a chance of doing it, damn right I'm going to!

Reading taoist, buddhist etc philosophy as well as studying history has given me perspective and made me more at peace with myself and life. So why not enjoy things while I can? I've already lost a decade of my life, so to say I've been through enough shit as it is.

I really feel that life is too short to get hung up on the details. So in summary it's kind of like the rain scene in V for Vendetta combined with a strong longing for actually enjoying life.

 

[Jenvas1306]

I allways had a fairly soft voice, but it was certainly male (yeah people confused me with my father on phone and told me classified information and stuff). My psychologist gave me the adress of a good voice coach, who helped me with speech patterns, keeping the vocals high and other things that made my voice sound more female.
I also found some very helpful videos:
http://www.deepstealth.com/film-tv-video/instructional-videos/finding-your-female-voice/

But I would recoment professional help together with those training videos. Surgery is certainly something I cant aprove off, maybe a simple chnge to the angle of the voicebox, but nothing doing anything to ones vocalcords.

By now my voice passes well, more here in germany than with people from america, but I am not yet done reaching what is possible.
It takes time and effort, but the confidence is certainly worth it

...and having someone to talk to is also helpful, I got my bf and there its easy for me to get the best out of my voice.

 

[WWmelb]

But wow. What an amazing bunch of people to have been through such a life dilemma, and to have come out so .. positive? friendly? helpful? All of the above? It is a delight to see and i thank you for it.

To give a boring answer, it's complicated. Getting rid of the depression, getting hormones, new friends. It's a huge difference. Even though I fucked up my first year in a civil engineer programme I actually have a chance to live now. I can look forward, plan, do what I like and so on. Partly is that for years I wanted to be able to live and enjoy life. Now that I have a chance of doing it, damn right I'm going to!

Reading taoist, buddhist etc philosophy as well as studying history has given me perspective and made me more at peace with myself and life. So why not enjoy things while I can? I've already lost a decade of my life, so to say I've been through enough shit as it is.

I really feel that life is too short to get hung up on the details. So in summary it's kind of like the rain scene in V for Vendetta combined with a strong longing for actually enjoying life.

Amazing scene and thank you for sharing. Hopefully your next decade will be infinitely better.