Transgender

[Ketsuban]

It isn't. In biology it is not normal. No where else does this occur or is tolerated except as humans.

If it were occurring in animals how would we know?

This was basically my response as well, so I'm glad someone else said it so I can me-too rather than trying to explain myself better.

Thinking out loud, then: The reason we know homosexual animals exist is because we can observe sexual behaviour between individuals of the same gender. Could we observe trans behaviour in the wild (and infer the existence of transgenderism) in the form of cataloguing activities which are specific to males and females of a given species and seeing how often and with what degree of regularity these social gender lines are breached?

e: something just occurred to me. It sounds like the OP is prejudiced, but doesn't discriminate, since they mention having gay or trans friends. Having a prejudice isn't automatically a bad thing, but acting on it (discrimination) is.

 

[ramboondiea]

although i dont agree with your natural argument, i do respect your opinion of not liking, but not hating the likes of transgender, i think this site is awful when i comes to this topic, as anyone who doesnt full support/love all transgender and gay people are usually put verbally assaulted and then their the ones to get banned/probation.

 

[serata]

Neither is eating food with a knife and fork, but I do that every night. And driving to work. Or biking, if you will. Or work. Hell "society," "money," "religion," "sex," "love," anything you do that's steeped in language isn't a "natural occurrence." The use of the word "tolerated" here seems to be an intentional flame, and if you don't intend to make moral judgement as you claim, I'm not certain what your point is; the argument is just ontological and circular. I'd like to be enlightened though, if you would, as it seems most people in this thread agree with me.

 

[Akytalusia]

hater's gonna hate. i won't argue with them or agree with them. i'll just stay in my closet and avoid all that drama, thanks. lol. it's worked so far.

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

This may net me a warning but I have to point out that, the very way you talked about how you feel about transgenders, is the very definition of a bigoted opinion. Having a prejudice against or dislike of a certain group of people based solely on what they are. [link]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot[/link]

There are many people who go through the process to change their sex because, both mentally and physiologically, they are more inline with the opposite gender of what they were born as. Who are you to judge them? You would really rather someone be forced to live as someone they know they aren't? That just seems rather cruel.

Oh, and you really think changing sex is an unnatural thing? I do believe science and quite a few species would like to have a word with you. [link]http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n9_v137/ai_8784789/[/link]

 

[feauxx]

i don't understand the reason for making this statement on this forum. what is it that you want? it seems like you are just out for people to agree with you on this. (of disagree because why else would you mention a possible ban).

why is it necessary to come in here and call some people out on how unnatural they are? seems like transsexuality is not a part of your life so maybe you shouldn't get so worked up over it and just let people be.

 

[Bridgeru]

Firstly, I'm transgendered myself. I speak from experience, yet only for myself, not the trasngendered community at large. No it is not "Natural". A blind man walking with a cane is not "natural", a person with a pacemaker is not natural (looking at you Ames in MGS2!!!). It is a medical condition, and as such, is treated medically. It is classified as both a mental and physical condition.

Secondly, what's the point in something being considered "natural"? In this world, nothing we do is natural. Cars aren't "natural"

Thirdly: It DOES happen in the animal kingdom, albeit for different reasons. Oysters have been known to change their sex, as well as frogs in accordance to demands (I mean, we all remember the scene in Jurrasic Park, but I digress).

Fourthly: Why did this thread have to exist? What did OP hope to gain? I mean, he's saying he's being forced to accept things......

OP, this is the only advice I'm going to give you; I am transgendered. It is my life. You may not like it, and do not have to like it. You do not even have to be silent about your dislike. Just ask yourself, do you get stones thrown at you, insultful comments, even death threats just by walking down the street.

This is a real issue for some people, and if it doesn't affect you, move along.

 

[Bridgeru]

Ugh, double post.

So how bout that weather? /inbefore Bridget/It's a trap jokes

 

[Chappy]

A lot of things in the world are not natural doesn't mean we are weirded out by them and I'm also going to argue your claim 'Most average people' what average are you subscribing to? An average to you which isn't average for everyone. You are fully entitled to your opinion and I will respect it even if I must sadly disagree with you however an opinion does not make something unnatural just food for thought.

(An example - Planes if we were ever designed to be able to fly why don't we have wings?)

I do believe you being annoyed is over reacting a fair bit read your post again in your first Sentance you said Transgender isn't normal and natural then later claimed 'average' people are weirded out if you are transgender and you are annoyed when people get upset. So answer me would you not get annoyed or upset if someone picked on an aspect in your life and declared because of it you are weird, not nautral or normal? So do you see where they may be getting a little upset with you?

Finally as to address the point as to shoving opinions down peoples throats as the only people who are annoyed by your opinion and that you don't need blind acceptance that may be true however by making a forum thread about this don't you think you are also trying to force your opinion onto others in a similar way?

Then again everything is subjective to personal opinion so you may think what you wish and I will respect your right to that opinion.

 

[moosek]

It's not a person's gender indentity disorder that offends me. I just hate being deceived.

I'd much rather be told, "I'm a [gender] trapped in [another gender's] body." As opposed to, "I'm a woman... [several hours later] with a penis." Sex and gender refer to the respective biological and psychological identity of an individual, and sometimes they don't always match.

I'll definitely acknowledge and tolerate their lifestyle, I just don't want to have to deal with transvestite trickery a la Zelda/Sheik.

 

[Woodsey]

I thought it had been proven that some people are born with a brain that functions as that of the opposite sex?

" I don't hate them for it, It's not like I avoid them because of it. I'm just saying that it isn't a normal or natural occurrence."

So? Neither is taking a shit indoors and flushing it down a pipe, I bet you'd still rather do that then simply do exactly what is "natural".

If you don't care - as you seem so desperate to try and claim - then why even bring it up?

 

[TwistedEllipses]

If we did things that were natural, we'd walk around naked, hunting (without tools) and gathering...

Fair enough, if you're saying someone has made the decision to change genders and that they weren't born that way. True, but who cares?

 

[Bridgeru]

It's not a person's gender indentity disorder that offends me. I just hate being deceived.

I'd much rather be told, "I'm a [gender] trapped in [another gender's] body." As opposed to, "I'm a woman... [several hours later] with a penis." Sex and gender refer to the respective biological and psychological identity of an individual, and sometimes they don't always match.

I'll definitely acknowledge and tolerate their lifestyle, I just don't want to have to deal with transvestite trickery a la Zelda/Sheik.

It's often difficult to say to a person "I'm a [gender] trapped in [another gender's] body" or "I am a transsexual". Some Ts feel, perhaps in a misguided sense of fear, that some's opinion of them should be based on how they interact in the "dating" stage, and not the genitals one of them used to have. Although, if they still currently have their old-sex's genitals, openness is definatly a big point, (to say it less nicely, honesty is best, certainly it should be said when the mention of sex is brought up in a casual encounter but that's just my humble opinon)

 

[monojono]

It is not a normal or natural thing to be transgender. It isn't. In biology it is not normal. No where else does this occur or is tolerated except as humans. If not for our higher level of thinking i.e regret and thing along those lines this wouldn't be tolerated. And if not for surgery it wouldn't even be possible.

You could say exactly the same thing about heart transplants.


You're tired of being called a hater and that you don't dislike transgendered people. So why are you saying this? What is your goal here? As people have already pointed out, being normal and natural does not mean good or worth preserving. Are there are a large number of transgender people claiming to be 'normal' that is offending you in some way? I'm sure a lot of transgender people have a hard time being accepted and feeling normal, and I fail to see why you are making an effort to remind them they are not 'biologically normal'.

 

[feauxx]

Firstly, I'm transgendered myself. I speak from experience, yet only for myself, not the trasngendered community at large. No it is not "Natural". A blind man walking with a cane is not "natural", a person with a pacemaker is not natural (looking at you Ames in MGS2!!!). It is a medical condition, and as such, is treated medically. It is classified as both a mental and physical condition.

Secondly, what's the point in something being considered "natural"? In this world, nothing we do is natural. Cars aren't "natural"

Thirdly: It DOES happen in the animal kingdom, albeit for different reasons. Oysters have been known to change their sex, as well as frogs in accordance to demands (I mean, we all remember the scene in Jurrasic Park, but I digress).

Fourthly: Why did this thread have to exist? What did OP hope to gain? I mean, he's saying he's being forced to accept things......

OP, this is the only advice I'm going to give you; I am transgendered. It is my life. You may not like it, and do not have to like it. You do not even have to be silent about your dislike. Just ask yourself, do you get stones thrown at you, insultful comments, even death threats just by walking down the street.

This is a real issue for some people, and if it doesn't affect you, move along.

what i was trying to say but then a lot better said.
respect for speaking up

 

[Bridgeru]

what i was trying to say but then a lot better said.
respect for speaking up

Thanks, (if not guessed, Bridgeru is Japanese for Bridget, and I say "it's a trap" all the time, so I'm not exactly above the classic tropes "of my people" xD)

To be honest, I just don't see the point of the thread. Like, at all. >.>

 

[KingGolem]

Snip

I agree with you one-hundred percent. It's definitely not normal to be gay or transgender, but that doesn't make it inherently bad. I mean, I imagine it would cause a few problems for the gay or transgender person, but those problems are there own, not anyone else's. It's definitely not the government's business, at any rate.

 

[SomethingUnrelated]

I am agreed. Transgenderism, amongst other things, is not natural. However, that doesn't mean that people who feel that way shouldn't be allowed to express themselves accordingly.

 

[Caliostro]

It is not a normal or natural thing to be transgender. It isn't. In biology it is not normal.

You know what else isn't natural or biologically normal? EVERYTHING ELSE IN OUR LIVES.

Namely, things like: clothes, glasses, medication, surgery, modern medicine entirely, sanitized water, soap, cooking, polyester, cars, computers, the internet, electricity, batteries, haircuts, romance, houses, TV, radio, music, plumbing, dishes, painting, condoms, religion, politics, light bulbs, jobs... etc, etc, etc.

I think it's fair to say being "natural" or not is hardly relevant.