Trico has a butthole (and The Last Guardian is magnificent!)

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Maybe it's tied to New Game+

Is there a New Game+?

 

[Casual Shinji]

Is there a New Game+?

It would appear so. I haven't started a new game yet, but after the ending when the game sends you back to the main menu it says 'continue' and 'options', with 'new game' having been ommited entirely. So I assume 'continue' means New Game+.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I'm putting this in my must have when I get a PS4 this holiday.

 

[Dalisclock]

Definatly interested in this. The reviews have all been saying much the same thing, that it's wonderful but also flawed. Though Jim Steling(and others) talking about the unresponsiveness of the controls and Trico at time prompts me to wonder:
1.) If he played the previous games and remembers they had similar issues
2.) if he realizes sometimes animals aren't immediately responsive. Especially wild ones. Yes, he brings up his dog. Maybe he has a really smart dog. Also, his dog is not a wild animal trapped in a giant maze.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Definatly interested in this. The reviews have all been saying much the same thing, that it's wonderful but also flawed. Though Jim Steling(and others) talking about the unresponsiveness of the controls and Trico at time prompts me to wonder:
1.) If he played the previous games and remembers they had similar issues
2.) if he realizes sometimes animals aren't immediately responsive. Especially wild ones. Yes, he brings up his dog. Maybe he has a really smart dog. Also, his dog is not a wild animal trapped in a giant maze.

Maybe he was expecting it to be like DogMeat.

 

[CritialGaming]

I tried to like the game. I really did ya'll. But I can't.

I can't handle the stiff and janky controls. I can't handle Trico's A.I., or at very least the pacing of how he processes things. To me the game feels like I'm playing through a bunch of mud.

It's fucking beautiful though, I'll give it that. And a very kick-ass idea. Maybe if they patch it to play better I can revisit it. But I can't hang with the game right now.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

The only issue I've had with the controls all game was one section where you had to shimmy on a narrow ledge, I had a hard time triggering the animation to get on said ledge. And, that's really it.

This makes me feel relieved, thank you for taking the time to explain the nuances. While I was sure I'd enjoy the game for the aesthetic alone, it's good to know the controls aren't as much of an issue as Jim would have people believe.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Now then, anyone who has already played this game, can you perhaps tell me how this griffin-dog's name is pronounced?

Is it Tr-I-co or is it Tree-co?

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

The only issue I've had with the controls all game was one section where you had to shimmy on a narrow ledge, I had a hard time triggering the animation to get on said ledge. And, that's really it.

This makes me feel relieved, thank you for taking the time to explain the nuances. While I was sure I'd enjoy the game for the aesthetic alone, it's good to know the controls aren't as much of an issue as Jim would have people believe.

If you were fine with ICO and SotC controls, you'll be fine with this. In some regards, I prefer controls like this but they obviously wouldn't work in a heavy combat or fast-paced game where you can't have the character stumble a bit after a jump and where every frame can be crucial to not getting hit. Getting used to the laggy camera is probably the worst controls issue, but I got used to it and I don't over-pan due to the slight delay anymore.

Is it Tr-I-co or is it Tree-co?

The latter.

 

[CaitSeith]

It also poops. There is even a trophy for it!

 

[Casual Shinji]

It also poops. There is even a trophy for it!

Yeah, I got that one and I didn't even notice what had happened. Until you told me just now I still didn't know, except that it was probably something indecent.

Now then, anyone who has already played this game, can you perhaps tell me how this griffin-dog's name is pronounced?

Is it Tr-I-co or is it Tree-co?

The kid actually pronounces it as Toriko.

btw. Is it wrong that I fantasize about Trico when I'm cuddling my dog? Because I've totally been doing that the last couple of days.

 

[Wveth]

I can understand the devs wanting the boy to be glued to Trico when he's on him, since Trico's much faster than a Colossi and can hop like 30 yards in a single bounce.

Colossus*

One colossus, two colossi.

As for The Last Guardian, I don't understand how anyone couldn't like it. I mean I love Jim but sometimes he just doesn't understand very obvious things. Calling him immature and childish is uh... really stupid though. He could stand to pay more attention.

But this game is just wonderful. I mean the score, the scenery, the interactions between the boy and Trico. I've never seen a creature animated so well and made to be so life-like in a game before. I think the controls are mostly okay. I can agree that they're a bit sticky but in this kind of game I much prefer them to a GTA or RDR kind of style. My biggest complaint is that climbing Trico really doesn't feel right, especially around her head and butt.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I read this interesting post and analysis of Trico's AI by Yiffy Savanah in the comments of Jim Sterling's review. I'd say it's pretty spot-on.

Okay, I've now watched a lot of different streams and playthroughs, and I've noticed a common theme among those who aren't enjoying the game:

They're approaching it from a very... aggressive... gaming mindset. The thing is, like all of Ueda's games, The Last Guardian is ultimately about harmony, cooperation, and a connection to one's surroundings. Remember all of the complaints from SotC about how Agro had "shitty controls", when it turned out that it was because they were trying to control her, instead of trusting her to navigate? It's a lot like that.

Every single time that I've seen someone complain about "Trico's AI", it's because they're often convinced that they have the right solution to a problem, that direct action is necessary, and that Trico is a beast who has to listen to what they say. They evaluate the puzzles from the point-of-view of themselves, instead of trying to immerse themselves in the world and play from the view of the young boy.

Conversely, the people I've seen who've fallen in love with the game are those who understand that Trico usually has a pretty good idea of where to go, who stop and pay attention to what she's trying to tell them, and who try to put themselves in the mind of the young boy - this is a kid who is lost and scared, and who has exactly one friend in the world. A friend who will protect them and help them, and who will always come in times of need.

In the end, it's not a matter of Trico not listening to you. It's a matter of you not listening to Trico.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I can understand the devs wanting the boy to be glued to Trico when he's on him, since Trico's much faster than a Colossi and can hop like 30 yards in a single bounce.

Colossus*

One colossus, two colossi.

Actually in the game each one is referred to as a Colossi. Don't ask me why, but they are.

My biggest complaint is that climbing Trico really doesn't feel right, especially around her head and butt.

An annoying thing is that you can't seem to cross the border from the leg to the torso. Like when it's in a sitting position, and you're clmbing up its hindleg and you get to the top of the knee, but you can't crawl over it onto its torso. It's a bit awkward. I would've really liked an option for straight-up SotC climbing controls.

I read this interesting post and analysis of Trico's AI by Yiffy Savanah in the comments of Jim Sterling's review. I'd say it's pretty spot-on.

Spoiler

Okay, I've now watched a lot of different streams and playthroughs, and I've noticed a common theme among those who aren't enjoying the game:

They're approaching it from a very... aggressive... gaming mindset. The thing is, like all of Ueda's games, The Last Guardian is ultimately about harmony, cooperation, and a connection to one's surroundings. Remember all of the complaints from SotC about how Agro had "shitty controls", when it turned out that it was because they were trying to control her, instead of trusting her to navigate? It's a lot like that.

Every single time that I've seen someone complain about "Trico's AI", it's because they're often convinced that they have the right solution to a problem, that direct action is necessary, and that Trico is a beast who has to listen to what they say. They evaluate the puzzles from the point-of-view of themselves, instead of trying to immerse themselves in the world and play from the view of the young boy.

Conversely, the people I've seen who've fallen in love with the game are those who understand that Trico usually has a pretty good idea of where to go, who stop and pay attention to what she's trying to tell them, and who try to put themselves in the mind of the young boy - this is a kid who is lost and scared, and who has exactly one friend in the world. A friend who will protect them and help them, and who will always come in times of need.

In the end, it's not a matter of Trico not listening to you. It's a matter of you not listening to Trico.

I've been wondering about that too. Just as with Agro if you approach Trico as a mechanic to get you through the game you're going to end up frustrated. If however you look at him as a creature that you have to help guide you through the ruins, you're likely to find the whole experience a lot more rewarding. The game in the end is not even so much about escaping the lost city, but about spending time with Trico. It's basically a pet (enjoyment) simulator when you think about it.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

I've been wondering about that too. Just as with Agro if you approach Trico as a mechanic to get you through the game you're going to end up frustrated. If however you look at him as a creature that you have to help guide you through the ruins, you're likely to find the whole experience a lot more rewarding. The game in the end is not even so much about escaping the lost city, but about spending time with Trico. It's basically a pet (enjoyment) simulator when you think about it.

I never realized people had trouble controlling Agro as she would follow the path on her own. People had problems with doing less to get somewhere? I always point to Agro and say that's how a horse should control, instead of being a small car. I think I've only had 2 issues with Trico so far, one involved a jump and the other involved a water area. That's really been it. In the video I posted earlier in the thread, you can see that when you give Trico the right command, Trico literally initiates the animations to do said thing pretty much instantaneously. Hell, one time I couldn't figure out what to do, and saw a ledge and I was able to force Trico to lift me up there only to find out it was a dead end even though Trico was pretty committed to doing something else and leading me towards the correct method.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I can understand the devs wanting the boy to be glued to Trico when he's on him, since Trico's much faster than a Colossi and can hop like 30 yards in a single bounce.

Colossus*

One colossus, two colossi.

As for The Last Guardian, I don't understand how anyone couldn't like it. I mean I love Jim but sometimes he just doesn't understand very obvious things. Calling him immature and childish is uh... really stupid though. He could stand to pay more attention.

But this game is just wonderful. I mean the score, the scenery, the interactions between the boy and Trico. I've never seen a creature animated so well and made to be so life-like in a game before. I think the controls are mostly okay. I can agree that they're a bit sticky but in this kind of game I much prefer them to a GTA or RDR kind of style. My biggest complaint is that climbing Trico really doesn't feel right, especially around her head and butt.

I like some of his commentary too but he does have a penchant for emotional outbursts and general lack of objective reasoning. Something either falls in line with his preconceived notions or it's not worth his time at best, or simply !@$#$% infuriating @#$*@#%! rubbish in any lesser case.

 

[Ravenbom]

It's a great game for sure. But I'd also point out that 8 is great. It's not mechanically all there and it's so AI dependent that many potentially great and memorable moments are hard to string together because you're waiting on the AI to decide to do something.
It's not a Call of Duty and I never expected it to play like one with scripted moments when I cross invisible markers and frankly I'm glad it's not like any other game out there except Ico... but... that still doesn't make it a 10. It doesn't have that Uncharted level of polish and seamless scripted events.

For instance, the falling bridge scene we've all seen demoed. I know EXACTLY what to do there the minute I saw it and I still died 3 times waiting for my cat-dog-bird to decide to line up at a critical moment to catch me.
For all the moments that make you forget that this is an AI and that this is a game, stupid deaths in the hallmark scene of the game will take that immersion and wonderment right back out of you.

It's exactly what I wanted, but it's not a 10 and it doesn't have to be, because it's exactly what I wanted. Still, I do acknowledge that it could be better.

I feel like too many people either love it warts and all or deride the game when, like most things, the actual truth is in between.

 

[Casual Shinji]

It's a great game for sure. But I'd also point out that 8 is great. It's not mechanically all there and it's so AI dependent that many potentially great and memorable moments are hard to string together because you're waiting on the AI to decide to do something.
It's not a Call of Duty and I never expected it to play like one with scripted moments when I cross invisible markers and frankly I'm glad it's not like any other game out there except Ico... but... that still doesn't make it a 10. It doesn't have that Uncharted level of polish and seamless scripted events.

For instance, the falling bridge scene we've all seen demoed. I know EXACTLY what to do there the minute I saw it and I still died 3 times waiting for my cat-dog-bird to decide to line up at a critical moment to catch me.
For all the moments that make you forget that this is an AI and that this is a game, stupid deaths in the hallmark scene of the game will take that immersion and wonderment right back out of you.

It's exactly what I wanted, but it's not a 10 and it doesn't have to be, because it's exactly what I wanted. Still, I do acknowledge that it could be better.

I feel like too many people either love it warts and all or deride the game when, like most things, the actual truth is in between.

The game definately has rougher edges than other current gen games, but then it's achieving things no current gen game, or even last gen game really has. This is why I'm able to overlook things like a bad camera and floppy controls, when in any other game they'd put me right off.

The fact that you mention dying three times during that scene goes to show how nearly everything in this game is happening in real time. Even during what I assumed was a scripted sequence near the end, I fell off Trico and interrupted what was supposed to be this big moment of triumph. And I loved it. I loved that in these moments, which in any other game would've been completely scripted, I was still in control. There was even one time when Trico accidentally kicked me off a cliff during one of his more energetic moods, and I've not been able to replicate that occurrence. It's just something that happened randomly due to the game being so much more unrestrained by a script then other games.

That these things happen ironically make me feel more immersed in the game, because it gives the impression that Trico is a real creature and not an NPC programmed to help you out at all times. It would've been easy for them to make Trico obey your every command, or have him run you through the game without missing a single beat. Just as it would be easy for devs to make enemy A.I. that could read your every movement and utterly kick your ass. But it's the fact that they're not perfect that makes them believable.

 

[CaitSeith]

Definatly interested in this. The reviews have all been saying much the same thing, that it's wonderful but also flawed. Though Jim Steling(and others) talking about the unresponsiveness of the controls and Trico at time prompts me to wonder:
1.) If he played the previous games and remembers they had similar issues
2.) if he realizes sometimes animals aren't immediately responsive. Especially wild ones. Yes, he brings up his dog. Maybe he has a really smart dog. Also, his dog is not a wild animal trapped in a giant maze.

1. https://www.destructoid.com/oil-on-water-how-i-can-t-love-the-games-you-love-212157.phtml yes, he did.
2. He assures his dog is an asshole.

 

[CritialGaming]

The game definately has rougher edges than other current gen games, but then it's achieving things no current gen game, or even last gen game really has. This is why I'm able to overlook things like a bad camera and floppy controls, when in any other game they'd put me right off.

What is it doing that no other game has done? I'm not denying your statement, I just don't see where it is coming from.

 

[RJ 17]

For those that are questioning Jim's judgement on it, do you listen to the Podquisition podcast? Because he goes into why he didn't particularly like it. While he did enjoy the narrative, what killed it for him were the controls. Evidently Trico is prone to just flat-out ignoring your commands and otherwise derping about in various forms. He referenced one scripted point where Trico had to jump a gap while the boy was riding him...only for the boy to fall off for absolutely no reason and die. Reload, get to that part again, and they clear the jump with no issue.

Also apparently there's an issue with differentiating between what's purely just stuff in the background and what's a ledge you're supposed to jump on/vines you're supposed to climb.

I haven't played it yet so I can't offer my own judgement, just wanting to put it out there that from my understanding, Jim's complaints were focused pretty much entirely on shoddy gameplay mechanics.