Trolling in paradox's forums/My complaint about warlock master of the arcane

[Kyleee]

Recently I have become a big fan of the jimquistion and I remembered watching the episode where geoff keighley tries to reason like an adult. It didn't work. In that episode jim suggest using childishness againts childishness and that's what I did on the paradox forums the makers warlock master of the arcane. I tried to defend an equally frustrated consumer in this thread,I'm kaliklackon.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?620934-Laziest-game-I-have-seen-published-by-Paradox

But despite my reasonable "Adult" post I was quickly border line trolled. A little dissapointed I tried to just avoid the forums. Then a new dlc that added a not so new independent race of elves who were already in the game as a special resource. So as a frustrated consumer who knew he wouldn't be treated fairly I wrote this.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?624217-Koatl-vs-Elves

I was quickly counter troll as if the developers pay people to defend their game. Oldly enough though I did get more attention then before so it's more likely the developers heard my complaint. It's funny how i'm the one being moderated while every reply tries to shoot me down.

The point I was trying to make is that this "unfinished game" that I bought with the subsequent dlc was not what I expected. I played the demo and realized that I probably just be better off playing Master of Magic, the game Warlocks supposedly based off. The dlc "Power of the Serpent" gave me the flavor I needed to even buy the game. Turns out the koatl was not a independent race, such as Zerg in starcraft, but simple mercenaries you could have near your starting city as a special resource. I lost like $13 dollars so I wasn't to mad about it. Then the "Return of the Elves" dlc came out with a new independent race of elves which, as I already stated, were in the game as a resource. It makes me mad that my aztecy koatls were half assed in comparison. That those who love elves are getting treated better. I like elves like anyone else but lack of forethought by warlock developers have left me with a worse deal and they should know better.

So since I can't express myself on paradox's own forum I figured I'd use escapist so that others may hear my misfortune and express their misfortune with warlock or with paradox in general

 

[ResonanceSD]

An unfinished game? Yeah that sums up Paradox pretty well. I got Magicka on release. For the next 11 days, I downloaded ELEVEN patches released to try to fix all the bugs that turned up.

 

[Garrett]

Paradox is like Bethesda. You don't ever buy their games at release. However, in case of Paradox, their games (well, my only experience with Paradox are strategy games so can't say much about the rest) evolve into playable and fun experience without need for mods. Ofcourse, for that to happen, you need to wait for few patches and expansions (and patches for expansions).

 

[The Madman]

An unfinished game? Yeah that sums up Paradox pretty well. I got Magicka on release. For the next 11 days, I downloaded ELEVEN patches released to try to fix all the bugs that turned up.

Paradox were only the publishers in the case of both Warlock as well as Magicka. Warlock was developed by 1C while Magicka is by Arrowhead. When they're the actual developers such as with Crusader Kings 2, Hearts of Iron or Europa Universalis they tend to be much better on the whole 'bug squashing' thing. Not perfect mind you but certainly far from the worst offender in that regard.

I do agree however that as a publisher they should probably have tighter standards for third party developer releases.

 

[hazabaza1]

I...
What are we looking at?

I saw you make two posts and I'm not really understanding any of the context or whatever going on here.
OT: So... Paradox? Made Magicka, eh? Shame about that game, it could have been fun, but it ran like shit and crashes whenever I finish a chapter.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I do agree however that as a publisher they should probably have tighter standards for third party developer releases.

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

 

[The Madman]

I do agree however that as a publisher they should probably have tighter standards for third party developer releases.

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

Well that depends on who they're selling the books to and what they're being marketed as. I suspect there would be a lot of people out there with a use for exploding books.

 

[ResonanceSD]

I do agree however that as a publisher they should probably have tighter standards for third party developer releases.

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

Well that depends on who they're selling the books to and what they're being marketed as. I suspect there would be a lot of people out there with a use for exploding books.

Probably quite a small niche.

Unless it's the bombinomicon.

I love killing people who have this equipped

(http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/Bombinomicon)

 

[Frankster]

Okies went and read the threads to see this fancy "trolling" vs the adult post and... Not too sure i agree with your interpretation of what happened, aswell as the effect of your trolling.

Happy venting though!

 

[Something Amyss]

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

It's actually more and more common to see books published with glaring typos, missing text, errors that make pages unreadable, etc.

Granted, you can't make a book have the same kind of catastrophic failures a game will have (at least as far as errors that can crash your...Eyes...or whatever), but book publishers are becoming more and more like game publishers.

Thing is, book publishers are getting away with it.

Quality Assurance is slowly becoming a thing of the past, my friend, and many, MANY consumers will actually defend it.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

It's actually more and more common to see books published with glaring typos, missing text, errors that make pages unreadable, etc.

Granted, you can't make a book have the same kind of catastrophic failures a game will have (at least as far as errors that can crash your...Eyes...or whatever), but book publishers are becoming more and more like game publishers.

Thing is, book publishers are getting away with it.

Quality Assurance is slowly becoming a thing of the past, my friend, and many, MANY consumers will actually defend it.

I'm yet to read a book which has pages that are unreadable.

I'm also yet to see someone defend shithouse QA who isn't an employee of the company under fire.

 

[Scow2]

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

It's actually more and more common to see books published with glaring typos, missing text, errors that make pages unreadable, etc.

Granted, you can't make a book have the same kind of catastrophic failures a game will have (at least as far as errors that can crash your...Eyes...or whatever), but book publishers are becoming more and more like game publishers.

Thing is, book publishers are getting away with it.

Quality Assurance is slowly becoming a thing of the past, my friend, and many, MANY consumers will actually defend it.

I'm yet to read a book which has pages that are unreadable.

I'm also yet to see someone defend shithouse QA who isn't an employee of the company under fire.

Eye of Argon springs to mind. But that only blows the argument up because it's OLD.

And I defend "shithouse QA" - If the choice was between having a buggy game and not having the game at all, I'd rather have something than nothing at all. Besides, they're usually REALLY fun when they work.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Yes, like a publisher of say, books. You probably wouldn't get away with releasing a book with chapters missing, or one that exploded every time you turned a page.

It's actually more and more common to see books published with glaring typos, missing text, errors that make pages unreadable, etc.

Granted, you can't make a book have the same kind of catastrophic failures a game will have (at least as far as errors that can crash your...Eyes...or whatever), but book publishers are becoming more and more like game publishers.

Thing is, book publishers are getting away with it.

Quality Assurance is slowly becoming a thing of the past, my friend, and many, MANY consumers will actually defend it.

I'm yet to read a book which has pages that are unreadable.

I'm also yet to see someone defend shithouse QA who isn't an employee of the company under fire.

Eye of Argon springs to mind. But that only blows the argument up because it's OLD.

And I defend "shithouse QA" - If the choice was between having a buggy game and not having the game at all, I'd rather have something than nothing at all. Besides, they're usually REALLY fun when they work.

Vanilla oblivion, so buggy that you couldn't finish it until it was fixed by the UESP patch. made by modders. Bethesda are absolutely ridiculous sometimes. Pretty sure the only reason F:NV didn't bug out for me is because I threw two GTX 580's and an i7 at it.


EDIT: Hit post too early/got distracted/oh look, a shiny thing - delete where appropriate.


I'd rather not have had oblivion sold to me for the price it was when the product was absolute crap.

 

[Scow2]

After finally bothering to read the posts in question, though, I have come to the conclusion that the more someone complains about wanting to be treated like an adult and having their statements taken seriously, the more likely it is that their posts are childish and laughably ignorant/close-minded.

Also, I saw (And replied to) someone who compared games to books. However, that is a false parallel. Games are ultimately software, which is ultimately a tool/device... or a toy. A hardware equivalent of a buggy piece of software would be an amusing Goldberg-esque device that does amazing things when everything's set up right, but has a chance of breaking down/falling apart if it's set on an awkward incline, two modules aren't particularly aligned, a stray breeze blows through, too much/little force is used on the launch or other user-designated input, one of the bearings isn't properly lubricated,, or something else inside has a chance of arbitrary failure because of the physics involved.

Sure, most of those problems are things that should have been addressed during construction, but sometimes fixing the thing at one point would screw up the involved physics somewhere else... or it screws up under conditions the testers didn't think to check ("Who'd mount it in a drafty closet?" or "We didn't test it on a carpet that plush!"). Or, sometimes fixing them would be too cost-prohibitive or difficult to launch compared to how often it screws up.

Sometimes, it's a matter of user error, like a saw that stops functioning if you run it over its own power cord, or a clock that doesn't keep time if it's mounted upside-down. In those cases, you need to work on idiot-proofing it in a way that doesn't inconvenience experienced users, but as the adage goes - no matter how idiot-proof you make something, the world will make a bigger idiot.

Bug fixing is much the same way, and is the most thankless part of coding. And unlike non-interactive or pre-rendered entertainment, you either don't need to follow strict guidelines to do what you need to do, or following said rules outright prevents you from doing what you need to.

 

[Something Amyss]

I'm yet to read a book which has pages that are unreadable.

I've never been to England, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

I'm also yet to see someone defend shithouse QA who isn't an employee of the company under fire.

You haven't posted on this site much, then? They're all over the place. Not just for games, either. I find it hard to believe you've encountered none.

 

[Weaver]

So when did the word "troll" start to mean "someone who disagrees with you"?

I'm yet to read a book which has pages that are unreadable.

I've never been to England, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

I've never seen a unicorn, but that doesn't mean there are none.

This logic is incredibly flawed and I don't know what you're trying to argue with it.

 

[Duskflamer]

You have to admit...that second post you made is pretty incomprehensible. You would have been better served taking a professional tone, perhaps using separate paragraphs to explain how the Koatls work vs. how the Elves work, rather than just appearing to ramble aimlessly.