It's a very sad state of affairs we're in.AndrewC said:
It's not WWII anymore folks. Japan has been our ally for some time now and the people affected by the tsunami have nothing to do with Pearl Harbor.
Tsunami "payback" for Pearl Harbour
- Thread starter Jonabob87
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It's not WWII anymore folks. Japan has been our ally for some time now and the people affected by the tsunami have nothing to do with Pearl Harbor.
The frequency with which I'm ashamed to be an American seems to increase by the day. I'm about to volunteer to go over to Japan with the Red Cross and actually have some compassion for my fellow human beings. People that think this is "payback," well...I would say they can go to hell, but it would probably be redundant. I just hope that everybody writes them off as senseless idiots and pays no attention to them.
Indeed. I think they got payback and then some. In fact I think they owe us some payback fo the nukes.
I'm not going to be shocked, because there are some people who have their head so far up their asses that they can't breathe.
I'd like to be able to look at such comments as respectable opinions, but I have to see the opposing facts to counter the humanitarian side as being strong enough for opinion to become... close to fact, if not exactly so.Ultratwinkie said:
First of all, Japan was on its knees only economically and industrially, which would mean you are right expect for the fact that Japanese morale was not crushed. Sure, it was lower than it ever had been, but they were not about to give up the whole fight to the Americans. It's quite clear that, even if the government that succeeded Tojo in 1945 had declared a surrender, the army would have very likely kept fighting, as would the general citizens of Japan. In fact, the official surrender in August was decided by the government, knowing that nothing would happen unless the Emperor himself gave the stand down order to his people, and the Emperor was not convinced of surrender until after both bombs were dropped.
As far as the death toll, it was estimated that a direct invasion of Japan would cost hundreds of thousands of lives. I believe it was actually 1 million military and civilian dead and obviously many more wounded.
Truman had two options for Japan: force an early surrender by using the atomic bombs or launch an invasion of Japan, the success of which would nearly mean eradicating the whole of Japan in order to crush local resistance. That would certainly not give quick results, and quick results were badly needed.
Stalin had promised the Americans that the Red Army would attack the Japanese three months after defeating Germany. The Red Army was, quite frankly, bad news for everyone. I don't mean that in the McCarthy "evil communism" sense, I mean that in a very real sense. Stalin was, without a doubt, an absolute monster. If that isn't enough, he had the single most powerful war machine on the planet at his fingertips.
Quite frankly, the Soviet Union was causing trouble for the Western Allies in Europe even before V-E Day. To have a Soviet presence in the Pacific as well as in Europe would have been unacceptable, and if the Red Army were allowed to invade as planned, it would have crushed Japan very rapidly through sheer force of will and numbers.
The atom bomb dropped on Hiroshima on August 6 was intended to be the only one dropped, but the Emperor didn't surrender. On August 8, three months after V-E Day, the Red Army attacked the Japanese in Manchuria and, as expected, smashed the forces encountered. The bomb dropped on Nagasaki the morning of August 9 was a tool to rush the Japanese surrender. The Japanese government had to convince the Emperor that Japan could not take more such bombings, and Hirohito finally surrendered, but without the bombs there would have been lots more trouble, including a body count that quite frankly justifies the use of the atomic bombs from a humanitarian point of view.
1. Not relevant to the OP but people seem to be arguing this point at great length so here's my verdict on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
The human cost of invading Japan would have been horrendous. The death toll would have been in the millions, on both sides. The invasion would have probably bankrupted the US and Japan as well, which would have in turn crushed the barely standing economies of Europe. The only country that would have been left standing would have been the self-sufficient USSR, still furious at Germany at what they suffered from the Nazis and without the deterrence of Britain and the US they would have seen no reason to stop pushing forward. The US and Britain would have tried fighting back, but being split on two fronts and with no money to back up their war effort they would have been no match. What would have eventually resulted would have been a communist, mega-state that covered a third of the worlds landmass led by a nigh-on psychotic monster.
And the US knew this.
In short, Fatman and Little Boy were not payback in any way shape or form. They were the lesser of two evils, and I bet they kept everyone involved with them awake at night for a very long time.
Disclaimer: This is just my own speculation.
2. As for the dick-ends suggesting that the Japanese people who lost their lives deserved it by saying the tsunami that hit was 'payback' for Pearl Harbour:
Make as many ridiculous, childish claims as you want guys because in the coming days you're going to look like complete pricks. You're going to see the government of Japan pulling out all the stops to rescue and help all of those hit by the tsunami. You're going to see convoys of trucks and helicopters dropping in aid, and getting people out of there.
You know? Everything your government completely failed to do when Hurricane Katrina hit.
The human cost of invading Japan would have been horrendous. The death toll would have been in the millions, on both sides. The invasion would have probably bankrupted the US and Japan as well, which would have in turn crushed the barely standing economies of Europe. The only country that would have been left standing would have been the self-sufficient USSR, still furious at Germany at what they suffered from the Nazis and without the deterrence of Britain and the US they would have seen no reason to stop pushing forward. The US and Britain would have tried fighting back, but being split on two fronts and with no money to back up their war effort they would have been no match. What would have eventually resulted would have been a communist, mega-state that covered a third of the worlds landmass led by a nigh-on psychotic monster.
And the US knew this.
In short, Fatman and Little Boy were not payback in any way shape or form. They were the lesser of two evils, and I bet they kept everyone involved with them awake at night for a very long time.
Disclaimer: This is just my own speculation.
2. As for the dick-ends suggesting that the Japanese people who lost their lives deserved it by saying the tsunami that hit was 'payback' for Pearl Harbour:
Make as many ridiculous, childish claims as you want guys because in the coming days you're going to look like complete pricks. You're going to see the government of Japan pulling out all the stops to rescue and help all of those hit by the tsunami. You're going to see convoys of trucks and helicopters dropping in aid, and getting people out of there.
You know? Everything your government completely failed to do when Hurricane Katrina hit.
I'd like to see you care for the humanitarian aspect+torn apart families of the current disaster as multi-national forces are flown in to help with the crisis. These guys are doing more than you seem to be. It's not the internet to blame, it's things-masquerading-as-humans that I would normally suggest needed a level of education and empathy but take 'em out back and shoot them instead as they are lost causes.punkrocker27 said:
On topic however I wasn't so much disappointed as...well you can gather. Seriously, I hope these creatures someday suffer the wrath of those around them for using free speech to incite hatred. Their asinine and disgusting attitudes are not welcomed in modern society.
Seriously get rid of the lot of these pricks and see how they like it one day when a natural disasters befalls their "safe society" as I hope they take the agonising death instead of an innocent family
You mean the complete ravaging of the Japanese economy, numerous firebombings and two nuclear strikes weren't enough? In that case, I guess hurricane Katrina was payback for the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam...Jonabob87 said:
Seriously, I have no idea how people even got the idea of linking these recent events to World War 2.
I thought that the two nuclear weapons we deployed on the non-military cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were payback for that, and even if they weren't, the people responsible for the attacks on the U.S. are long dead. The slaughter of innocent people by a natural disaster should be viewed as what it is: a tragedy.
Isn't every country overflowing of hateful little dicks? I mean one big difference in the the US is that some of our hateful little dicks can be easily spotted by their white robes and pointy little hats.etherlance said:
My word! Good sir, I am not sure what other members of my nation have done to bring about such anger, but I see no reason why you need to group us all then curse to damnation. Really now, if I didn't know better I would think that you're insinuating that we throw the baby out with the bath water.
