Two gay men kicked out of a pub for kissing in public

[Treblaine]

The big problem is how the far right will view it.

(Pardon my interpretation)
"Couple of poofdahs allowed to kiss and cuddle in my pub? Not fucking likely mate, let's teach these gays a lesson."

Which leads to the event.

We're giving precedence to a news story which is, at best, a lapse of judgement. And ignoring a brutal attack.

When Glen Beck, or others say, "I'm not saying that homosexuals shouldn't be married but..." isn't that more strewn with hatred than "Get out if you're gonna continue kissing."

Hmm, I wouldn't give much thought to the excuses of hate filled extremists, as that is all they have, excuses. Their motive is their live pathetic lives defined by hate of outsiders, though it is definitely disconcerting that this "media outrage" may trigger-retaliation, so could anything else.

A gay pride parade could set them off, that is no excuse to cancel the gay pride parade (except possibly for crimes against fashion).

Glen Beck is a professional troll, now he is an unemployed troll as his Far-right pandering act has just gone too far. I don't know if he consciously knew it but that's all he was, a troll but the pay must have encouraged him. But that's not how you KEEP a job in the media industry, no, Beck was a freak-show, a train wreck people would tune in to watch and now the novelty has worn off. You have to be more of a showman.

See this is the difference between the Far and Extreme right and how the media panders to them.

The Extreme right want a story to rile them up into a fight and them shout about it or maybe go beat someone up. Also they (unlike other ideologies) don't claim to be the centre or moderate but are proud of being outsiders. They don't really have a media though, they've got their networks I think.

The far right (Daily mail / Fox News) just want a distraction. They will dwell in delusions of moral superiority and focus on something like "what about the pub owners' rights?" and a whole load of other conjecture but all of this is a DISTRACTION! It fills their mind with thought and drives out the unpleasant thought that:

"hmm, I may not like to see gay kissing, but it was still wrong to treat them like this. Maybe the gay boys were in the right?"

It's a coping mechanism. They will make a lot of noise but it is purely self-serving, if anything it has a neutralising effect.

And the Left does this as well.
They do the same one-sided tangential distractions, ultimately the articles and editorials are trying to simply give the intellectual stimulus that goes towards their prejudice and undermines or ignores the other perspective.

 

[Treblaine]

It just strikes me as more likely that they've had a load of gay customers before and that this couple did something different. Since all any of us can do is speculate I'll admit it's only a theory but it seems plausible enough to not condemn the bar owners until we know. As I said above, minority-hatred labels are a hell of a thing to get lumbered with, they don't unstick easily.

There ARE details about this, there is no need to speculate. I think the wild card here is the as yet unidentified customer who apparently complained and later grabbed one of the couple. He could have come from anywhere, have had any relations to the landlord and been under the influence of god knows what.

I suppose you're right though. Trial by internet-forum has to be as bad as trial-by-media if not worse. I just hope this all gets resolved though I suspect we won't ever know what really happened.

Though I will say, speaking generally, that one shouldn't assume everyone holds the same beliefs as you. Some can be so conflicting and strong yet we all keep them hidden to stop us all smashing each others noses in all the time. Like "don't mention the war" and so on.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Hmm, I wouldn't give much thought to the excuses of hate filled extremists, as that is all they have, excuses. Their motive is their live pathetic lives defined by hate of outsiders, though it is definitely disconcerting that this "media outrage" may trigger-retaliation, so could anything else.

I'd love to believe that.

However, as was seen from the Facebook reactions to the Japanese earthquakes, there's an awful lot of hate-filled extremists around.

Same day : 15 April: Miami had a huge Gay Pride Festival, Phoenix had a Gay Pride march, and an ex-marine was found guilty of murdering a gay professor in Indiana.

Did anyone else notice these events? Nope...because we were APALLED at two guys being chucked out of a pub.

 

[Treblaine]

As was seen from the Facebook reactions to the Japanese earthquakes, there's an awful lot of hate-filled extremists around.

Same day : 15 April: Miami had a huge Gay Pride Festival, Phoenix had a Gay Pride march, and an ex-marine was found guilty of murdering a gay professor in Indiana.

Did anyone else notice these events? Nope...because we were APALLED at two guys being chucked out of a pub.

"an ex-marine was found guilty of murdering a gay professor in Indiana."

Question: why is he a "gay professor" surely he is a Professor, and he'd be described as gay if relevant to the story. No one would say "straight professor murdered" or "female professor murdered". It's not really a gay-rights issue, it's just plain old fashioned murder. The murderer claims rape but seems more like he's delusional and mentally disturbed.

Also gay pride parades are only really relevant to the places where they actually happened. If they were globally relevant then they wouldn't have to have one in every locale showing their presence.

"As was seen from the Facebook reactions to the Japanese earthquakes, there's an awful lot of hate-filled extremists around."

Don't be fooled, there aren't many but they ARE very vocal. I mean if you're crazy enough to think that then you're crazy enough to blab it everywhere you can.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Question: why is he a "gay professor" surely he is a Professor, and he'd be described as gay if relevant to the story.

It's really a gruesome story, but the sexuality seems to be quite relevant, http://www.towleroad.com/2011/04/jury-ex-marine-guilty-in-murder-of-gay-indiana-professor.html

Also gay pride parades are only really relevant to the places where they actually happened. If they were globally relevant then they wouldn't have to have one in every locale showing their presence.

They're still a place where homosexuality is celebrated; but instead of covering that, it's often just on the politics behind it - should heterosexuals be allowed in it? Rubbish like that.

"As was seen from the Facebook reactions to the Japanese earthquakes, there's an awful lot of hate-filled extremists around."

Don't be fooled, there aren't many but they ARE very vocal. I mean if you're crazy enough to think that then you're crazy enough to blab it everywhere you can.

It's more the way they're portrayed. If the news consists purely of far left and far right opinions, then discussions such as these are painted by polarised views. Either the pub is right to ban homosexuals OR no-one has the right.

The truth probably is that the pub has the right to ban nuisances, but someone shouldn't be a nuisance JUST because they are gay.

 

[xdom125x]

We only have 1 side of this story and that is the side of the "victims" in this situation. They would obviously try paint themselves in a sympathetic light to gain sympahy, anyone that gets kicked out of a place likes to believe they were innocent and that the establishment has been unfair to them, gay people included.
I don't care if you are gay or straight, going past a little kiss (I say going over 5 seconds makes it stop being a kiss and starts being making out) would get you kicked out of my establishment (if I had one, that is). What can I say, I don' like PDAs above a kiss (as previously defined).

So the bartender was probably not being discriminatory but if he was he's a dick.

 

[Baneat]

That's the only explanation for this glaring unbalance in media attention.

The big problem is how the far right will view it.

(Pardon my interpretation)
"Couple of poofdahs allowed to kiss and cuddle in my pub? Not fucking likely mate, let's teach these gays a lesson."

Which leads to the event.

We're giving precedence to a news story which is, at best, a lapse of judgement. And ignoring a brutal attack.

When Glen Beck, or others say, "I'm not saying that homosexuals shouldn't be married but..." isn't that more strewn with hatred than "Get out if you're gonna continue kissing."

I think it's the overt left that piss me off more this time round, with the ultra quick response from any kind of view that allows someone else to be a homophobe makes you a homophobe, and they really are the "Look at me, I'm like liberal and shit! LOOK, LOOK, I have cool, hip, contemporary views!" - Even in the face of contradictions in logic.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

I dislike public displays of affection. I don't care if it's heterosexual or homosexual.

So? So what?

What does it matter if you like or dislike them?

What's that got to do with anything?

"So heres the biggest question, whether this bothers you or not, would you have considered a regular female / male kissing the same thing?"

I believe it's called, an awnser to a question.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I think it's the overt left that piss me off more this time round, with the ultra quick response from any kind of view that allows someone else to be a homophobe makes you a homophobe, and they really are the "Look at me, I'm like liberal and shit! LOOK, LOOK, I have cool, hip, contemporary views!" - Even in the face of contradictions in logic.

Which is exactly the same leaning that tried to ban "Baa Baa Black Sheep" for being racist, "Three Little Pigs" for being Anti-Muslim/Jewish, and other forms of PC which actually hurt the group it's meant to save.

 

[jpoon]

I'd definitely throw out two guys making out before I'd kick out two girls making out or a man and a woman, that's just the way it is. Hell I think it's the owners choice, it's their business.

I should say though, so long as it weren't something totally indecent I would let it slide.

What the fuck is that's just the way it is mean? It's okay for a man and a woman or two girls but two guys is wrong?

Yep, it means exactly what I said, it is not as socially acceptable for two men to make out and I'm just fine with that. If they didn't like it I would just ask them to leave, it's as simple as that. No reason to get bent out of shape, the owner does have some rights over controlling his own business you know...

 

[AgDr_ODST]

I wouldn't give two shits if it was a hetero couple, two lesbian porn stars or a friggin pair of celebrities. If them 'kissing' is disturbing me, I'd want them gone period

So things you don't like should be legally forced to stay out of your way?

nope didn't say that...Im just saying if any type of couple getting to into their making out started to bug me, if say the owner decided to throw them out I wouldn't step up to in thier defense

 

[DVnotDivvy]

Not asking. Forcing. And I've included the response, you just deliberately didn't read it.

Racism/sexixm/bigotry should be condemned not protected. I did respond to that part of you post, try reading yourself.

While I believe that they shouldn't be promoted, you can't force people to think like you. And business owners are entitled to their rights.

 

[DVnotDivvy]

It's the same thing, you wouldn't kick a guy out of a bar for kissing his girlfriend would you?

That and this is in SOHO, an area known for its Gay bars and such. On topic though, your right this shouldn't have been a big deal at all.

It shouldn't have been in the papers, but the pub owners are entitled to reject anyone from their grounds if they wish to do so, which surely is foolish and bad for business, but that's their decision. The overstatement is just an example of Britain's Fabian-minded society which doesn't have the slightest understanding of the concept of civil liberties.

 

[Jakub324]

I don't quite get this - their pub will get a bad reputation. Fair enough, the owner can eject anyone he/she likes, but I don't think it will be good his business.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

"If it were in a family restaurant come pub, I would like to think gay couples would be considerate about kissing as some very small children maybe be confused or even afraid because its a complex issue and if they are not aware its not the best way to have it explained, that's how some prejudices start through lack of understanding, so you want to explain to children in the best way possible. But then again any couple should be considerate with children around, just an extra thing to think about."

I don't have kids . . . .

"I have no problem with my sexuality" please feel free to point out at any point where I described having any problem with anyone's or how anyone should have a problem with their own . . .

So your saying no consideration should be taken to children?

Also you do know I was specifically talking about a family restaurant right? ie aimed at family's with children?

That's a very selfish and immature attitude. So your totally dismissing that the best way to harbour an accepting and better society is to explain things properly to children at a time they are old enough to understand so that they don't end up confused or even afraid, which is the same place many prejudices start, through lack of understanding.

I'm talking about very young children ie less than 5 years old, the sort of age where the dark can scare the shit out of them . . . if there is nobody in their life who is gay, and their parents are a heterosexual couple, its very unlikely that they will of had anything remotely sexual explained to them beyond the idea of a boy and a girl kissing, that would literately be the limit of their knowledge. Things children do not understand or are not old enough to understand, can very easily scare them.

Just like the fact, that I tend to swear allot when I'm hanging around with my friends, but if we happened to go into a family kind of pub where there are children present we would calm it down and make sure we did't swear.

I really don't see how you can really think anything I have said is that out of order, I'm essentially just saying that children should be protected and have things explained to them when they are old enough to understand. And I did't even say that a gay couple should't kiss, I said that if they were in a family kind of establishment it would be common courtesy to be considerate, just like anyone, or any couple, should regulate their behaviour slightly around other people's children. It's common good nature and manners.

See I wasn't trying to be rude to you, I was simply explaining that 5 year olds only need to be told "some boys prefer to kiss boys and some girls etc etc" and it's not as if you are against straight couples kissing there. And equating gay kissing to cursing is a little bashful to say the least. Some of my best friends are gay and to say they should regulate themselves in front of other peoples kids is ridiculous.

I'm just saying that the REAL reason people grow up with prejudices is because the parents are ignorant or simply don't want to breach the subject with their children so they ignore the issue and the kids believe rumours and falsified information. Honesty is always best and telling kids a couple can be any mix of gender is not hard for them to understand.

 

[Athinira]

Personally I'm glad i live in a country where such rules are taking seriously. In fact, politicians in Denmark are currently trying to increase the potential consequence for clubs who discriminates against people, meaning that if it goes through, the police will be allowed to close the club and remove it's alcohol-serving priviledge if it finds out that discrimination takes place.

It's depressing that the countries with the most freedom seem like they just can't wait to get rid of it.

Absolute freedom isn't a good thing. Imagine if you were free to do ANYTHING you wanted, including killing people. Would that be a great world to live in? I doubt it.

I don't consider the freedom to discriminate (beyond doing it inside your own head) a good freedom to have around.