U.S. soldiers killing Afghan civilians

[Mrsoupcup]

It was Alkaida man. It was not a conspiracy, it's just nobody wanting to admit a third world nation of religious gangsters was able to attack a global super power like the US. People feel thinking safer thinking the US is in total control.

Al Quaeda is a terrorist organization, not a nation.

and being an organized crime group, referring to them as a 'conspiracy' is accurate both in legal and common terms.

Ddi I say nation? Okay that I will admit is me talking out my ass. (I tend to mix Al Quaeda and the Taliban up, I have been reading up on both)

 

[Dr Snakeman]

Weren't the 9/11 attacks done by people from several nationalities worldwide?

It was Alkaida man. It was not a conspiracy, it's just nobody wanting to admit a third world nation of religious gangsters was able to attack a global super power like the US. People feel thinking safer thinking the US is in total control.

oookey. Now how about some proof. And please don't give me a link to some conspiracy theory website.

I'm not calling conspiracy at all, a Terrorist faction attacked the US. http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html

Decide for yourself. Personally, I know it was Alkaida. Alkaida admitted to it and is still proud of it.

Al-Qaeda. It's spelled al-Qaeda. Sorry, but it was driving me crazy. And I'm pretty sure Oscar90 is confused about what you're trying to say, since al-Qaeda is in fact a multinational organization. It isn't just confined to Afghanistan. The Taliban is an Afghani/Pakistani political organization, while al-Qaeda is a terrorist group with members from all over the globe. They work in tandem in Afghanistan, with al-Qaeda calling most of the shots, but they aren't the same thing.

Now that that's cleared up, we can all move on to being disgusted that these people could disgrace their country and their Army in such a way.

 

[Ithera]

Nice one Uncle Sam! Dem boys dun you proud, no doubt. Don't these goons shot enough people already? Now they feel the need to kill civilians? How low can you go? Pretty low it seems, as these soldiers willingly prove.

 

[Mrsoupcup]

here there be text

I never mentioned anything about rape. You seem to mistake me a) for someone who wrote something else b) an american

Sorry lost track of who I was disagreeing with. I seem to be in the minority in this debate so I am getting a lot of messages.

 

[T8B95]

Don't let the acts of a couple of nutcases taint your views on the whole picture. Besides SilentCom if you were there you probably would have had the moral backbone to report them for a psyche evaluation. It is terrible and shameful what these have done and it really does suck that it is going to ruin the image of all of the good things that the military has done.

Really? What good things can you claim that the Army has done in the past sixty years?

Really, all of the shoulder-shrugging ``Ah, well`` attitudes piss me off just as much as the actions themselves. This is just fucking disgusting. And it`s not an isolated incident, if you read the article, you`ll see that this happens all the fucking time. And it`s not new to Afghanistan either. This shit happened in Vietnam all of the time, in Iraq all the time, and it`s gonna keep happening in Afghanistan.

These aren`t a couple of nutcases. This is half the Army we`re talking about here. This is almost as bad, if not worse, as what the Taliban has done in Afghanistan.

Like it or not Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime before Americans went in. It's not their business to go around and police the world and all but at least now the soccer fields are filled with women's soccer teams rather than women being beheaded or stoned to death. Women are now permitted to attend school over there as well.

It isn't half of the army and you need to bear in mind you will only get the sensationalist news. I suggest you go find more points of view before passing judgment on things.

Okay, maybe not half the army, but that's completely beside the point.

And oddly enough, the closest to enlightenment the Afghan people ever had was under the Soviet regime. Before anyone starts flaming me rabidly, do your research. The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan was a pro-woman, pro-poor, democratic republic with close ties to the Soviet Union. When the Islamic Revolutionists attacked the Afghan government, the legitimate Afghan government requested the help of the Soviet Union. The Americans then backed the Revolutionists, and destroyed the best chance that the Afghans had for a stable system. So, like it or not, Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime because the Americans made it so. You're right, it's not their duty to police the world, so they should have stayed out from the beginning.

I'm sorry for getting riled up about this, but this is kind of a Berserk Button topic for me.

 

[Torrasque]

Surprised I am not.
Take for example, the atrocities the allies committed in WWII.
Of course, we didn't have concentration camps and stuff like that, but the US still nuked Japan...
Yes, it ended the war and saved a great many lives, but holy shit, its a fucking nuke.

I can't remember the exact quote, or where I got it from, but:
"The victors of war declare the losers of war are evil, and the evil actions done by the victors, are declared just"

 

[Neonit]

yea, but they were fighting the terrorists so its ok.
funny thing, taliban could claim exactly the same
(and they are on their f***** soil, so more power to them)

raping and pillaging was always encouraged during occupational wars. its a war thing. what did we learn today? WAR IS BAD! (not big surprise)

but i know how it will end. they will either receive no punishment at all, or show trial where one guy will maybe go to prison (i would be really surprised)

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Weren't the 9/11 attacks done by people from several nationalities worldwide?

It was Alkaida man. It was not a conspiracy, it's just nobody wanting to admit a third world nation of religious gangsters was able to attack a global super power like the US. People feel thinking safer thinking the US is in total control.

oookey. Now how about some proof. And please don't give me a link to some conspiracy theory website.

I'm not calling conspiracy at all, a Terrorist faction attacked the US. http://www.cracked.com/article_15740_was-911-inside-job.html

Decide for yourself. Personally, I know it was Alkaida. Alkaida admitted to it and is still proud of it.

Al-Qaeda. It's spelled al-Qaeda. Sorry, but it was driving me crazy. And I'm pretty sure Oscar90 is confused about what you're trying to say, since al-Qaeda is in fact a multinational organization. It isn't just confined to Afghanistan. The Taliban is an Afghani/Pakistani political organization, while al-Qaeda is a terrorist group with members from all over the globe. They work in tandem in Afghanistan, with al-Qaeda calling most of the shots, but they aren't the same thing.

Now that that's cleared up, we can all move on to being disgusted that these people could disgrace their country and their Army in such a way.

Balls, I never spell it right. Which tends to make me look unintelligent and lose a foothold in debates... I know they are not the same thing though. Keeping track of my Military in Afghanistan and the United States in Iraq can get confusing.

 

[Gaiseric]

Hell, go take a look at some of the Wiki leaks videos regarding Apache gunners killing photographers and saying they had RPGs.

The problem is two fold. You are allowing idiots to fight for you (you would have to be to join at this point). Secondly, your countries support of the mental health of the guys over there and here is laughable.

The saddest thing? I wish I could say that I was surprised.

Summed it up perfectly.

As much as I hate to say it, the draft actually includes everyone (well, everyone who can't buy their way out) not just people who are much more likely to sign up "Just to kill people"

U.S. soldiers weren't drafted to fight in Afghanistan...

That's what I'm saying.

In a voluntary war, you sign up if you

a) have no other options (poor)
b) you're a fucking psychopath

Thanks I'm joining soon.
Nice to know that apparently I'm an idiot, poor, and a psyco. I wouldn't have known that if you guys hadn't posted.

 

[thelonewolf266]

The really sad thing is that Americans will justify this by saying they are from a middle eastern country therefore they are terrorists which means they are responsible for 9/11 just like they say Japan deserves the tsunami because of pearl harbour.(I know not all Americans are this ignorant and retarded it just seems like its the majority of them a lot of the time so I apologize to any sensible decent Americans for saying this).

 

[deathbydeath]

The American army is full of those pretentious, and self righteous gits.

At least in the British army, you have to go through a background check, and have certain qualifications in order to join it.

In America their army is mostly full of idiotic school dropout's, and that's why this shit happens.

America please take note.

Nationalism, YES!

 

[Midnight Crossroads]

I like how instead of talking about the tragedy of armed men abusing their power to kill civilians and fantasizing about killing children or the US's apparent lack of desire to purge these undesirables, we're instead left with a bunch of ignorant stereotypes of people in the military demonstrating similar attitudes required to make it okay to kill those "savages." Stay classy, Escapist.

 

[Raistlinhawke]

As long as the majority of soldiers aren't viewed in the same light as these perversions of duty, we should be ok. Its a terrible tragedy against protocol and an absolute shame for their superiors, and requires immediate attention as such. But to avoid the entire military because of it is akin to not going onto the internet because trolls occasionally have activity on it.

 

[RobCoxxy]

Hell, go take a look at some of the Wiki leaks videos regarding Apache gunners killing photographers and saying they had RPGs.

The problem is two fold. You are allowing idiots to fight for you (you would have to be to join at this point). Secondly, your countries support of the mental health of the guys over there and here is laughable.

The saddest thing? I wish I could say that I was surprised.

Summed it up perfectly.

As much as I hate to say it, the draft actually includes everyone (well, everyone who can't buy their way out) not just people who are much more likely to sign up "Just to kill people"

U.S. soldiers weren't drafted to fight in Afghanistan...

That's what I'm saying.

In a voluntary war, you sign up if you

a) have no other options (poor)
b) you're a fucking psychopath

Thanks I'm joining soon.
Nice to know that apparently I'm an idiot, poor, and a psyco. I wouldn't have known that if you guys hadn't posted.

Sorry, I don't mean everybody.
I feel bad now. Of course some people join for a profession.

 

[MrGalactus]

who are the terrorists, again?

 

[Rayne870]

Don't let the acts of a couple of nutcases taint your views on the whole picture. Besides SilentCom if you were there you probably would have had the moral backbone to report them for a psyche evaluation. It is terrible and shameful what these have done and it really does suck that it is going to ruin the image of all of the good things that the military has done.

Really? What good things can you claim that the Army has done in the past sixty years?

Really, all of the shoulder-shrugging ``Ah, well`` attitudes piss me off just as much as the actions themselves. This is just fucking disgusting. And it`s not an isolated incident, if you read the article, you`ll see that this happens all the fucking time. And it`s not new to Afghanistan either. This shit happened in Vietnam all of the time, in Iraq all the time, and it`s gonna keep happening in Afghanistan.

These aren`t a couple of nutcases. This is half the Army we`re talking about here. This is almost as bad, if not worse, as what the Taliban has done in Afghanistan.

Like it or not Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime before Americans went in. It's not their business to go around and police the world and all but at least now the soccer fields are filled with women's soccer teams rather than women being beheaded or stoned to death. Women are now permitted to attend school over there as well.

It isn't half of the army and you need to bear in mind you will only get the sensationalist news. I suggest you go find more points of view before passing judgment on things.

Okay, maybe not half the army, but that's completely beside the point.

And oddly enough, the closest to enlightenment the Afghan people ever had was under the Soviet regime. Before anyone starts flaming me rabidly, do your research. The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan was a pro-woman, pro-poor, democratic republic with close ties to the Soviet Union. When the Islamic Revolutionists attacked the Afghan government, the legitimate Afghan government requested the help of the Soviet Union. The Americans then backed the Revolutionists, and destroyed the best chance that the Afghans had for a stable system. So, like it or not, Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime because the Americans made it so. You're right, it's not their duty to police the world, so they should have stayed out from the beginning.

I'm sorry for getting riled up about this, but this is kind of a Berserk Button topic for me.

Actually I find that once we dug into things your true rationale and intelligence came out. And I do agree with a lot of what you have brought up about the history of Afghanistan and why it is the way it is. With any luck America will take this as an opportunity to "unfuck" the situation.

Anyway you're good in my books and I don't accept your apology because I don't think you should be apologizing. I will offer a virtual handshake and respect though

 

[Mrsoupcup]

yea, but they were fighting the terrorists so its ok.
funny thing, taliban could claim exactly the same
(and they are on their f***** soil, so more power to them)

raping and pillaging was always encouraged during occupational wars. its a war thing. what did we learn today? WAR IS BAD! (not big surprise)

but i know how it will end. they will either receive no punishment at all, or show trial where one guy will maybe go to prison (i would be really surprised)

Did you even read it? The dude in charge got 24 years. Wait power to the Taliban? What? Did you really just say that?

 

[Rayne870]

yea, but they were fighting the terrorists so its ok.
funny thing, taliban could claim exactly the same
(and they are on their f***** soil, so more power to them)

raping and pillaging was always encouraged during occupational wars. its a war thing. what did we learn today? WAR IS BAD! (not big surprise)

but i know how it will end. they will either receive no punishment at all, or show trial where one guy will maybe go to prison (i would be really surprised)

Did you even read it? The dude in charge got 24 years. Wait power to the Taliban? What? Did you really just say that?

Taliban and Al'Queda are two very different things. The majority of the Taliban does not support Al'Queda. The troops need to be very careful about their image in other countries and they need to make it clear they don't condone the actions of these disturbed troops. 24 Years in prison is a pretty good start, especially since it should be military prison, and a following dishonorable discharge +stripping rank. He'll have to live with how bad he screwed up and I'm feeling pretty good about that, though I think he should have a bit more time in prison to think about things. 24 years is enough time to totally alienate him from children he may have or possibly prevent him from having any, which is a huge blow to anyone's life.

 

[T8B95]

Don't let the acts of a couple of nutcases taint your views on the whole picture. Besides SilentCom if you were there you probably would have had the moral backbone to report them for a psyche evaluation. It is terrible and shameful what these have done and it really does suck that it is going to ruin the image of all of the good things that the military has done.

Really? What good things can you claim that the Army has done in the past sixty years?

Really, all of the shoulder-shrugging ``Ah, well`` attitudes piss me off just as much as the actions themselves. This is just fucking disgusting. And it`s not an isolated incident, if you read the article, you`ll see that this happens all the fucking time. And it`s not new to Afghanistan either. This shit happened in Vietnam all of the time, in Iraq all the time, and it`s gonna keep happening in Afghanistan.

These aren`t a couple of nutcases. This is half the Army we`re talking about here. This is almost as bad, if not worse, as what the Taliban has done in Afghanistan.

Like it or not Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime before Americans went in. It's not their business to go around and police the world and all but at least now the soccer fields are filled with women's soccer teams rather than women being beheaded or stoned to death. Women are now permitted to attend school over there as well.

It isn't half of the army and you need to bear in mind you will only get the sensationalist news. I suggest you go find more points of view before passing judgment on things.

Okay, maybe not half the army, but that's completely beside the point.

And oddly enough, the closest to enlightenment the Afghan people ever had was under the Soviet regime. Before anyone starts flaming me rabidly, do your research. The Democratic Republic of Afghanistan was a pro-woman, pro-poor, democratic republic with close ties to the Soviet Union. When the Islamic Revolutionists attacked the Afghan government, the legitimate Afghan government requested the help of the Soviet Union. The Americans then backed the Revolutionists, and destroyed the best chance that the Afghans had for a stable system. So, like it or not, Afghanistan was under an oppressive regime because the Americans made it so. You're right, it's not their duty to police the world, so they should have stayed out from the beginning.

I'm sorry for getting riled up about this, but this is kind of a Berserk Button topic for me.

Actually I find that once we dug into things your true rationale and intelligence came out. And I do agree with a lot of what you have brought up about the history of Afghanistan and why it is the way it is. With any luck America will take this as an opportunity to "unfuck" the situation.

Anyway you're good in my books and I don't accept your apology because I don't think you should be apologizing. I will offer a virtual handshake and respect though

Agreed. Virtual handshake!

 

[Bretty]

Thanks I'm joining soon.
Nice to know that apparently I'm an idiot, poor, and a psyco. I wouldn't have known that if you guys hadn't posted.

Joining the army at this point is like saying I want to go to Afghanistan. I have friends in the Air Force and the Navy. My father is ex RAF (Wing Commander). Unfortuntely, to allow for cost cutting and to meet the mission provided to the army they have had to cut down on the training, the minimum requirments for a troop to join and then there is the equipment and support you get when you are over there.

If you are joining the army then good luck man, (I seriously mean that).

If you are joining the Marines, good choice.

The Navy and AF? Even better choice, since there will be good jobs waiting for you when you leave.