U.S. soldiers killing Afghan civilians

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punkrocker27

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Gudrests said:
They wont hire morons/psycos.
Agreed, except for this last part. It's been made glaringly apparent that they do indeed hire psychos, although unkowingly, and it's also true that they sometimes hire morons as well, knowingly this time. These are facts you cannot ignore.
 

schiz0phren1c

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why is anybody surprised?,saddened for sure but NOT surprised.
Mai Lai anybody?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

fuck knows what other evil shit is being done in the name of freedom as we surf the net.
 

Gudrests

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punkrocker27 said:
Gudrests said:
They wont hire morons/psycos.
Agreed, except for this last part. It's been made glaringly apparent that they do indeed hire psychos, although unkowingly, and it's also true that they sometimes hire morons as well, knowingly this time. These are facts you cannot ignore.
well not on purpose.....I go to school with a few guys that were over there and the things that the people do are apparently just....terrible. Enough to break someone with no problem....I can kinda..KINDA understand hating a group of people when you have had to pick your friends teeth out of a jeep.....after he was split in 2. Still the morons and psycos they don't hire. You need to of graduated H.S and they put you under tests to make sure your not crazy. They are very scrutnious about it now...they even are laying people off.
 

schiz0phren1c

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Gudrests said:
punkrocker27 said:
Gudrests said:
They wont hire morons/psycos.
Agreed, except for this last part. It's been made glaringly apparent that they do indeed hire psychos, although unkowingly, and it's also true that they sometimes hire morons as well, knowingly this time. These are facts you cannot ignore.
well not on purpose.....I go to school with a few guys that were over there and the things that the people do are apparently just....terrible. Enough to break someone with no problem....I can kinda..KINDA understand hating a group of people when you have had to pick your friends teeth out of a jeep.....after he was split in 2. Still the morons and psycos they don't hire. You need to of graduated H.S and they put you under tests to make sure your not crazy. They are very scrutnious about it now...they even are laying people off.
Sorry to disagree with you both guys,
but war is ultimately psychotic,and anyone who goes through basic training,or is brainwashed into terrorism IS by definition Psychotic,Sociopathic and as much a threat to CIVILIAN society as a murderer who "pays his debt" to society and is released.
What exactly do you you think "Basic Training" is? its teaching normal people to breach the ultimate taboo,to deliberately,purposefully take a Human Life.(By the way as you can see from my profile Pic I'm far from a hippie myself,I shoot,Hunt,have done just about every damn martial art in the world,have 20 years experience as a Bouncer/Doorman/Security etc person in some of the dodgiest spots in the world from Ireland to Northern Ireland during the troubles,to Cardiff in Wales to Tenerife and Greece and many more including years spent with close friends in South East Asia who are Thai Army,Navy Seals and some people who are just...{off}...well I won't go on about what I've seen,but I think you get the idea my point is that I recognise the capacity for violence in ALL people...and I include myself).
Lots of people who commit murder never reoffend,
Lots of warriors never kill people once"out of the warzone"...
but there are always those who find it easier to kill once they've crossed that line,
I have a friend in South East Asia who is a Sniper,and in my personal opinion(and his) his entire training,deployment,councelling,and redeployment is designed to MAKE you Psychotic.
and of course some of you have probably heard the sniper joke?
Question-"Whats the first thing you feel when you shoot a terrorist/civilian?"
Answer-"Recoil"
Apologies for wall of text.
 

Gudrests

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schiz0phren1c said:
Gudrests said:
punkrocker27 said:
Gudrests said:
They wont hire morons/psycos.
Agreed, except for this last part. It's been made glaringly apparent that they do indeed hire psychos, although unkowingly, and it's also true that they sometimes hire morons as well, knowingly this time. These are facts you cannot ignore.
well not on purpose.....I go to school with a few guys that were over there and the things that the people do are apparently just....terrible. Enough to break someone with no problem....I can kinda..KINDA understand hating a group of people when you have had to pick your friends teeth out of a jeep.....after he was split in 2. Still the morons and psycos they don't hire. You need to of graduated H.S and they put you under tests to make sure your not crazy. They are very scrutnious about it now...they even are laying people off.
Sorry to disagree with you both guys,
but war is ultimately psychotic,and anyone who goes through basic training,or is brainwashed into terrorism IS by definition Psychotic,Sociopathic and as much a threat to CIVILIAN society as a murderer who "pays his debt" to society and is released.
What exactly do you you think "Basic Training" is? its teaching normal people to breach the ultimate taboo,to deliberately,purposefully take a Human Life.(By the way as you can see from my profile Pic I'm far from a hippie myself,I shoot,Hunt,have done just about every damn martial art in the world,have 20 years experience as a Bouncer/Doorman/Security etc person in some of the dodgiest spots in the world from Ireland to Northern Ireland during the troubles,to Cardiff in Wales to Tenerife and Greece and many more including years spent with close friends in South East Asia who are Thai Army,Navy Seals and some people who are just...{off}...well I won't go on about what I've seen,but I think you get the idea my point is that I recognise the capacity for violence in ALL people...and I include myself).
Lots of people who commit murder never reoffend,
Lots of warriors never kill people once"out of the warzone"...
but there are always those who find it easier to kill once they've crossed that line,
I have a friend in South East Asia who is a Sniper,and in my personal opinion(and his) his entire training,deployment,councelling,and redeployment is designed to MAKE you Psychotic.
and of course some of you have probably heard the sniper joke?
Question-"Whats the first thing you feel when you shoot a terrorist/civilian?"
Answer-"Recoil"
Apologies for wall of text.
I think our terms of psychotic are a bit different. But I know what you mean...My uncle was a sniper in viet? i think....and lets just say..GREAT GUY...dont fuck with him.
 

LarenzoAOG

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InterAirplay said:
LarenzoAOG said:
RobCoxxy said:
SilentCom said:
RobCoxxy said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The saddest thing? I wish I could say that I was surprised.
Summed it up perfectly.

As much as I hate to say it, the draft actually includes everyone (well, everyone who can't buy their way out) not just people who are much more likely to sign up "Just to kill people"
U.S. soldiers weren't drafted to fight in Afghanistan...
That's what I'm saying.

In a voluntary war, you sign up if you

a) have no other options (poor)
b) you're a fucking psychopath
c) you love your country and join its military to serve it
d) you wish to make something of your life serving something greater than yourself
e) you actually wish to help people (in some cases)
f) you desire discipline and wish to make a good living working hard

Don't ever diss professional soldiers like that, you'll just look like a jackass, sure there are a few that are off their rocker but don't lump them together with those that joined for a good reason and do their job correctly.
You forgot one.

g) If you don't have a problem with slaughtering your fellow man
Shows what you know about the U.S. Army or any Army, not every soldier is some kind of cold blooded killing machine, I've known quite a few consciencous objectors in the military, there is also hundreds of different support jobs in any military that don't involve killing people. My father for one, he's a flight medic, his job is to save lives, he's never fired a gun outside of a range.

Also its really fucking stupid to think that the only thing people do in the military is wrongfully kill people without any reason, thats like saying the only reason we have cops is to shoot people who loiter, shows what the fuck you know about the U.S. Army.
 

LarenzoAOG

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InterAirplay said:
LarenzoAOG said:
InterAirplay said:
LarenzoAOG said:
RobCoxxy said:
SilentCom said:
RobCoxxy said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
The saddest thing? I wish I could say that I was surprised.
Summed it up perfectly.

As much as I hate to say it, the draft actually includes everyone (well, everyone who can't buy their way out) not just people who are much more likely to sign up "Just to kill people"
U.S. soldiers weren't drafted to fight in Afghanistan...
That's what I'm saying.

In a voluntary war, you sign up if you

a) have no other options (poor)
b) you're a fucking psychopath
c) you love your country and join its military to serve it
d) you wish to make something of your life serving something greater than yourself
e) you actually wish to help people (in some cases)
f) you desire discipline and wish to make a good living working hard

Don't ever diss professional soldiers like that, you'll just look like a jackass, sure there are a few that are off their rocker but don't lump them together with those that joined for a good reason and do their job correctly.
You forgot one.

g) If you don't have a problem with slaughtering your fellow man
Shows what you know about the U.S. Army or any Army, not every soldier is some kind of cold blooded killing machine, I've known quite a few consciencous objectors in the military, there is also hundreds of different support jobs in any military that don't involve killing people. My father for one, he's a flight medic, his job is to save lives, he's never fired a gun outside of a range.

Also its really fucking stupid to think that the only thing people do in the military is wrongfully kill people without any reason, thats like saying the only reason we have cops is to shoot people who loiter, shows what the fuck you know about the U.S. Army.
oh, wow. Projecting much? Christ.

The military of any nation is supposed to kill. That is it's job. I would love to discuss the ethics of this... with someone who hadn't decided that their opening barrage would be to inform me about something they assumed I know nothing about in the most insulting manner possible because they jumped to conclusions regarding a statement I made.

Cheers.
Alright then, have a nice day.
 

Gaiseric

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Sep 21, 2008
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Bretty said:
Gaiseric said:
Thanks I'm joining soon.
Nice to know that apparently I'm an idiot, poor, and a psyco. I wouldn't have known that if you guys hadn't posted.
Joining the army at this point is like saying I want to go to Afghanistan. I have friends in the Air Force and the Navy. My father is ex RAF (Wing Commander). Unfortuntely, to allow for cost cutting and to meet the mission provided to the army they have had to cut down on the training, the minimum requirments for a troop to join and then there is the equipment and support you get when you are over there.

If you are joining the army then good luck man, (I seriously mean that).

If you are joining the Marines, good choice.

The Navy and AF? Even better choice, since there will be good jobs waiting for you when you leave.
Thanks, going for the Marines.

Edit: Your post worries me a bit. I got a friend in Army basic right now.
 

schiz0phren1c

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Jan 17, 2008
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Gudrests said:
I think our terms of psychotic are a bit different. But I know what you mean...My uncle was a sniper in viet? i think....and lets just say..GREAT GUY...dont fuck with him.
Yeah,I didnt exactly explain myself with my usual style and skill :) (I fail English? thats UNPOSSIBLE!) but thats one thing we both agree on.
 

Gaiseric

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RobCoxxy said:
Sorry, I don't mean everybody.
I feel bad now. Of course some people join for a profession.
It's cool, as long as you know there are other reasons for joining the service.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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illmuri said:
More on topic, the people mentioned in the OP article are bad human beings. Being American has nothing to do with it. There are bad people in any army. This stuff is found out and the people are punished.

If you are shocked, its hardly the first time something like this has happened.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Baghdad_(1258)
That's a pretty poor example thinking that was BEFORE there were any laws in war. These days we gt the Geneve conevntion that ays what we can or can't do in war. War is terrible, and it has been worse than what happens in Iraq now, thninking the crusades where they just were going to defend the holy land usually ended in a day' march, kill those who were there (thouands of mile from the holy land) and go home.
It' clear that the evaluations of their pychological health is lacking since a psychopath would get through, fool the system and not give himself away as what he is. These guys were idiots and messed up. As you said though, there are bad humans, but so far I've only heard of these event among the Britih, American and German soldiers. There has been a few minor incident that I've heard of, but when it comes to killing and torture the 3 countries I mentioned have been involved. I haven't really buried myelf in new about the war, so I might have missed something though.
 

Shoqiyqa

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Mar 31, 2009
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thaluikhain said:
Isn't "Al-qaeda" a transliteration of an Arabic word? So, spelling is a bit iffy anyways?
Yes, indeed.

[http://img600.imageshack.us/i/alq.gif/]​

It means "the base" and I've heard it as "al cadre", "alka'eeeda", "alkeeda", "alakadiya" and goodness knows what else, but the proper pronunciation would be "al-car'idda" with the most emphasis on the "car'i" part.
 

Shoqiyqa

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schiz0phren1c said:
Sorry to disagree with you both guys,
but war is ultimately psychotic,and anyone who goes through basic training,or is brainwashed into terrorism IS by definition Psychotic,Sociopathic and as much a threat to CIVILIAN society as a murderer who "pays his debt" to society and is released.
What exactly do you you think "Basic Training" is? its teaching normal people to breach the ultimate taboo,to deliberately,purposefully take a Human Life.
I agree with this but I'll expand on it a little.

The army has an idea of what sort of person joins the army. They know how to take a group of such people and turn them into soldiers, and they try to get those people into the army. Things get a little weird when they find themselves needing a few technicians and linguists and the like and having to recruit them from outside the "potential soldier" blob in the Venn diagram of humanity, but generally it works.

The first things you do in the army are put your civilian clothes away because you won't be wearing them for at least six weeks, get exactly the same haircut as everyone else and put on exactly the same uniform as everyone else ... and lose your first name. There are no Annes or Brians or Charlottes or Davids in the army. There are Privates, Drivers, Riflemen, Lancers, Signallers, Sappers and a few other equivalent ranks. They have surnames. It goes: "Sir, I am 25123456 Private Jones, Sir!" There's no "Fred" in there. If they have three Sig Smiths in the troop, they are Sig Smith 4650, Sig Smith 4359 and Sig Smith 4441.

Then you spend twelve weeks being bullied, abused, deprived of sleep, fed SHIT and subjected to collective punishment because it makes people bond into little teams that all succeed or all suffer based on whether or not they all do all their jobs right ... and also made fit and taught some basic military skills.

I'm not sure quite how the US army organises it, but the British Army has, from memory:

One soldier

Two soldiers are a pair.

Four soldiers are a fire team, with a Lance Corporal or Corporal in charge (NCO i/c).

Two fire teams are a section, with the Cpl in charge and the L/Cpl second in command (2ic).

Three sections make a troop or platoon, with a Captain (or Lieutenant, on occupying a place in lieu of a Captain) as officer commanding (OC) and a Sergeant to run things.

Three troops make a squadron. Three platoons make a company. Either way there's a Major as OC, with a Squadron Sergeant Major or Company Sergeant Major to run things.

Three sqns or coys make a battalion, with a Lieutenant Colonel as commanding officer (CO), a Regimental Sergeant Major running things and generally speaking a Lt or Capt as adjutant to handle the boring paperwork.

Above that, the officers stop being part of a regiment or corps and start being politicians. YOU HEARD. Yes, YOU.

Lance Corporals and Corporals may get informal and drop the ranks among themselves and even use first names, and officers and sergeants on the same level of organisation do it a fair bit, but down at the bottom you have a number, a rank and a surname, and shit rolls downhill.

What's the point of that? To dehumanise you. The army has little use for human beings. They have a massive need for humans and particularly empaths, but they don't want 'em. They want soldiers who obey orders in ways their cadre can predict and plan, and they want them full of themselves and willing to kill. Basic Training is meant to break you down and build something else out of the pieces.
 

Normalgamer

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Dec 21, 2009
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Shoqiyqa said:
Normalgamer said:
... telling me we should be letting a tyrant slaughter tons of innocents?
He got re-elected in 2004, didn't he?
Didn't vote for him, and would you mind not cutting out parts of your quotes? It's not taken very kindly here.