Ubisoft engineer: "Console manufacturers" decide whitch parts of games to keep, pressure 30fps limit

[black_knight1337]

Graphics do not make a game... and no that is not cause to remark "well actually without the graphics it'd be a black screen", you know full well what I mean. Sorry I have to put it that way, but that "smart remark" is all too common and it just wastes time.

Yep, but they do make a good game better. Take Skyrim for example, wouldn't it be better to walk into houses, caves etc without any loading screens? Wouldn't it be better if you could look off into the distance and not be met with low res 2d cut outs? Wouldn't it be better if the civil war actually had large scale battles? I could go on but I think you get the idea. Taking advantage of better hardware doesn't make a bad game good but it makes a good game better.

There's also the other stuff I mentioned, namely the physics and ai. Both of those can directly impact the gameplay and utilising stronger hardware can make them better.

Secondly I don't see how you're any different than. What is the difference between you and the "I want no exclusives to exist, but PC better keep all its exclusives because I don't want all that "dumbing down" brigade? In regards to that argument I don't see sense, I see hypocrisy. It'd be like a Xbox guy saying he wants all the Sony exclusives, but Xbox exclusives should stay exclusive...they've got some here or theres to shield their hypocrisy admittedly but those don't work on me, especially when I know that such people dismiss the opposite which is that certain games were ultimately only possible on consoles not due to technical matters, but financial ones or due to competition in the console market (got to have something to duel what the competitor has after all).

You forget that there wouldn't be any exclusives if there was a unified platform. If there was a unified platform, all exclusives that are able to would be ported to it. And there's a difference between 'dumbing down' and sacrificing usability. Take Path of Exile's passive skill tree [http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/] for example, that thing would be a nightmare to navigate on a console.

 

[Rozalia1]

Then many are wrong. STALKER does not need mods to be good... what moronic imbecile said that? FFS I am playing it unmodded right now.
Some people's opinion should be ignored. Those people's opinion is one of those.

Its what always happens when those threads come round, and they aren't uncommon. Someone makes a thread saying they heard it was good but were disappointed. Other posters say its best enjoyed with mods, or that it was simply good in its time, that sort of stuff.

You did not understand what I said at all .

So Sony isn't involved thereby meaning the game doesn't exist, but you want to talk fantasy so we have to imagine that someone will come along and still produce the game (if not better). However I can find no evidence of who "decided" on the game shall we say. Was it Media.Vision who said to Sony they'd like to do an RPG? Was it (as I mentioned earlier regarding Sony wanting an RPG) Sony who asked them to produce an RPG? If we go the route of it being Sony responsible, than that throws the game into the uncertainty and not just in regards to the game...for you see they were at the time a young company who only had two other games to their credit, both of which were also Sony exclusives, and published by Sony...So really they'd need to find a publisher for those games, and everything would have to full into place for them to later release Wild Arms... but it'd than be a Playstation exclusive regardless and that isn't the fantasy we're talking about...we're talking PC after all. So... no, I don't really want to imagine this further as its just wrong. The game wouldn't have been made without Sony and I'm leaving it at that.
So much would have to align to lead it down the route that I'm just going to even consider it a valid point.

Anyway...as I said the game wouldn't have been made. You said otherwise as someone else would have come along and the stars would have aligned...what am I missing?

Well, from what you wrote I was left with the impression you cant make a difference between modding and vandlism. And that you have NO idea how mods work .

No it is not the equivalent. That is a downright retarded comparison on so many levels. How do you even come up with this stuff?
A better one (though not that good still): Modding is like having an infinite number of the exact same art piece with the exact same value. Then taking one of those pieces and:
1. Draw on top of it.
2. Look at it whilst doing something of your own. Being able to copy elements from it completely.

Unfortunately, I have played more ambitious, bigger, better coded and better designed mods then most "good" games could ever hope to be. The real, standalone or conversion or DLC/Expansion type of mods are just as much a work of art as any other game.

I do not respect your position at all here.

You are kinda mixing "fix" mods and rebalance mods here . Case in point, someone cares. You wont see mods for Aliens Colonial Marines soon (even though it is quite possible to make those). At the same time, Rockstar never released modding tools, yet look at the amount of mods their games have.

A claim going from nowhere but whatever.

The original game is a work of art, a nude mod that makes all the females nude in the game isn't art simple. Oh and yes I know how easy it is to attack that, and no I'm not saying all mods are such things...its just quicker and more to the point, nothing more.

No its like me printed out a picture of a painting, drawing some lines on it and proclaiming myself as an artist, or it as an orginal art piece. There are angles that can be looked upon where that can be legitimate, especially with the angle of "anything is art, even a frame with nothing in it"...however it isn't to me.

No mixing up at all. You're underestimating the power of a brand name/fanboyism.

Do you think I took it seriously? I didnt. It is just empty words and BS. If they WANT to do it right, they should just SAY they dont want the community to aid their game. I dont expect them to give us the reason (milking the franchise every 1-2 years, milking DLCs and expansions without having to compete with modders), just to not lie.

It is nonsensical to pirate a multiplayer game. Nor does that in ANY way affect piracy.

I bought Battlefield 3 and 4. Were not worth the money.

Yeah I can agree on that, if they don't want to do something they don't have to justify it to people. It'd put a lot of game writers (as in guys who write about games) out of work though.
Wasn't referring to multiplayer only games...so...where that come from?

My gaming PC is my work PC. I dont use 2 different machines. Rather have one.

What work do you do? Video editing?

You took this way too seriously... I was saying that, considering the fact that I am making a mod right now, it would be more logical for me to be more competent ... was... a friendly remark. The FRIENDLIEST of all I made today with you ...
Damn. Am I really that much of an asshole ...

I never heard of the term and you showed it to me. Now I dont see in binary though. If the page said car, would you consider it a car?
It is a simple marketing ploy to get the average console player that is afraid of computers to buy it...

Its irrelevant, I can take slights (which is how they come across when you constantly state that it should be you telling me how basic things work) like that no prob.

Whatever the case its by no means a new thing, goes way back in essence. Unless you have any evidence that proves your definition is more legitimate than my own, than I'll be accepting your concession.

Actually it does. Power does. The power of CPUs, GPUs and RAM.

That is completely illogical. Much more Sci Fi then consoles suddenly disappearing.

Switch to APFSDS. Otherwise I dont see it having an effect.

Taking it literally which I specifically asked you not to. What was said was not that the CPUs and so forth would disappear, merely the gaming capability. Its a simple scenario to prove a point...not even to you originally actually I believe... taking literally is not how that should be taken.

It was to prove a point. They want X to happen because they desire Y, and thus are shielded by their insistence that it all comes from wanting Y. I go what if Z happened and you still got Y. Predictably they in practically all cases don't want it and boom their armour comes right off, their true form revealed. Its a simple argument to allow others to slaughter themselves as when they are shielded, no matter how obvious their true form is they can hide behind it no problem... but if they themselves come out and expose themselves? Well that shield is no good anymore.

There. Is. A. Limit. To. Porting. When will you finally understand that?

Than have it be the Ultra Super HD Duelshock tournament remix Wii U2 Bono edition that can play anything today no problem than if you can't see the point. Boom it can play anything and all games will be made for it, and only it.
Anymore quibbles? Mouse? Keyboard? Lets throw that functionality in there so you can't hide behind that.

You accept that right? Its that unified platform you've always wanted so what is the problem?

Specification are always important. Monopolies dont last.

Why can't you just face the point directly? Its a scenario with a question at the end that has an obvious goal, you either answer it one way, or you do it the other. Wanting all the specifics, and than questioning them to faff about is a waste of time... all it implies is that you just don't want to answer as you wouldn't like what'd it'd prove.

You know, you will never admit AI, physics, sound or special effects also make a game. You just do not see it...
So lets try something else: Some people are graphics whores and want pretty games. Some people are AI whores and like to mess around. Who will think of them?

Oh no I know they make up a game, they are by no means bad things. However they aren't to quote that old figure that most easily gets this across, 90% of a game (again no black screen poppycock, you know full well what I'm saying).

They should look for a hobby that better suits their tastes perhaps if I was to be blunt as you want me to. CGI movies for example for the "graphic whores", Robotics perhaps for the "AI whores".

Yep, but they do make a good game better. Take Skyrim for example, wouldn't it be better to walk into houses, caves etc without any loading screens? Wouldn't it be better if you could look off into the distance and not be met with low res 2d cut outs? Wouldn't it be better if the civil war actually had large scale battles? I could go on but I think you get the idea. Taking advantage of better hardware doesn't make a bad game good but it makes a good game better.

There's also the other stuff I mentioned, namely the physics and ai. Both of those can directly impact the gameplay and utilising stronger hardware can make them better.

It is what it is, a good game doesn't have that as issue. Now my opinion on Bethesda's games isn't exactly high, and actually is the only company I've had the thought of writing off and never buying another game of theirs again (Playing Western RPGs for the sake of experiencing different experiences can have its negatives, at least shooters are done quick and are fun in what they are)...but hey plenty of their games got perfect scores .

It adds to a game yes, but a game is much more than just that. The rest is far more vital.

You forget that there wouldn't be any exclusives if there was a unified platform. If there was a unified platform, all exclusives that are able to would be ported to it. And there's a difference between 'dumbing down' and sacrificing usability. Take Path of Exile's passive skill tree for example, that thing would be a nightmare to navigate on a console.

I didn't forget, I was doing an example of a Microsoft/Sony guy today. You believe there should be no console exclusives, but PC should have them because we can't be "dumbing" them down...than you're a hypocrite. You can always make something work, Resident Evil 2 was on Game.Com...they can make it happen.
Give that game mouse and keyboard support, why wouldn't a unified Wii U not have that after all...or hey the Wii has that touchpad so that can function well enough... that issue you've brought up is a minor one easily solved.

 

[black_knight1337]

You believe there should be no console exclusives, but PC should have them because we can't be "dumbing" them down

No I don't, never mentioned anything of the sort. Exclusives are okay if there's actual legitimate reasons for it not just "We're keeping this an exclusive so you have to buy our platform and pay for our services".

You can always make something work, Resident Evil 2 was on Game.Com...they can make it happen.

Considering they took this and turned it into this I don't think it's a particularly good example. You can port anything from one system to another but it's a question of what sacrifices need to be made to do so.

Give that game mouse and keyboard support, why wouldn't a unified Wii U not have that after all...or hey the Wii has that touchpad so that can function well enough... that issue you've brought up is a minor one easily solved.

Using Path of Exile again, we've got 5 flasks, 8 skills and bunch of extra functions. It ends up being 19 different keys for standard gameplay along with another 10 for the different menus. It ends up being a logistical nightmare to not only get it to work, but to make it comfortable to use.

If you go that far, is there any point for it being a console anymore? It would literally be just a PC with fixed hardware and a closed off OS. At that point, why not just make it a standard PC?

The original game is a work of art, a nude mod that makes all the females nude in the game isn't art simple. Oh and yes I know how easy it is to attack that, and no I'm not saying all mods are such things...its just quicker and more to the point, nothing more.

No its like me printed out a picture of a painting, drawing some lines on it and proclaiming myself as an artist, or it as an orginal art piece. There are angles that can be looked upon where that can be legitimate, especially with the angle of "anything is art, even a frame with nothing in it"...however it isn't to me.

If you classify games as art, then mods of all forms should be considered as such as well. It's derivative work but they're still putting in the work coding, drawing, modeling etc to make it happen. It's not fair on them to just go around calling it vandalism, especially when they've created entire genres [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_online_battle_arena] and some of the most popular [http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/dota-2] (and highly rated) [http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/team-fortress-2] games ever made [http://www.metacritic.com/search/all/counter%20strike/results].

 

[Strazdas]

Trying to make $599 sound better isn't going to work, I can say with certainty that if the PS4 was that price on release it wouldn't have sold as much as it has. Oh and yes there is evidence to support that (PS3 - 360).
Its as recent as it gets actually, not that it needs to be recent. It merely needs to show/prove something which it does just fine.

if what your trying to prove is that 10 yeart old market data is somehow still relevant then you failed to prove that utterly with the PS3-360 comparison considering PPS3 outsold 360 when market changed.

Yes, it would have sold worse if it was merely priced higher. if it however had appropriate power for that 600 dollars it would be a very different story, one neither of us know the answer to.

here is a stumper for you. Did another pat Sony on the back and buy the PS3 in huge amounts?

well, actually....the military did [http://scitech.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/military-purchases-2200-ps3s/]. but they were building a supercomputer and not gaming.

Legally you'd need to own both the game and the original device needed to play it.

you already did this before and your still wrong. legally you need to own a copy of the game. you dont need to own the original device to play it, you can use any device you want to play your legal copy.

A piece of art stands on its own merits, not on whatever vandalisation some vandal decides to glue on it.

Ok that caught me offguard. did you just use the "modding ruins games" argument? i didnt expect to read such stupidity on escapist. come on your better than this.

 

[Rozalia1]

Aha. That is all you remember?
Good in its time... the hell, nothing even remotely like it has happened before and since...

Just saying you're in the minority on that.

Finally. Finally you put things in a reasonable and understandable way.

So...I was correct than in that while the very small chance exists that everything could align, the probability of the game not being made is indeed astronomical.

That is your claim really. I never, in my entire life, imagined someone would say such things about one of the only true damned good things in (all) art forms. When I saw your (and that of a few fanboys, but people that believe PS4's notebook CPU beats 4th gen quad core i7s are not worthy of discussion) "opinion" on the matter, I thought you were trolling hard. Imagine my surprise when you are serious.

??? I claimed I don't know the difference between modding and vandalism? ... Pretty sure I didn't.

If mods like MINERVA, Lost Alpha, R&D and Valley of Silence are not works of art, then gaming is not an art form. Here. Happy now?

*Note: Dont use such absolutely moronic examples. It is downright retarded. It is too retarded to attack. The point is lost in such an amount of stupidity. Dont use such example mate.
And it opens up a downright ugly counter counter attack on JRPGs. I dont want to stoop to such a low level.

You keep misconstruing it unfairly to attack me there. You said they were toys, and so I constructed shooters as a person holding a doll, aiming its accessory handgun, and going "pew pew pew". If your claim is correct, than so is the claim that games are just simple toys...so in conclusion you can claim you're "better" due to using a PC, and not a "toy", but all that means is the PC is your toyhouse where all your dolls are stored for you to mash together.
If you can accept all of gaming as mere toys than I can't do anything, you can believe that and there is nothing I can say beyond "I disagree"...but if you refuse to accept that while holding your other opinion than hypocrisy turns its head.

Problem is, you are rushing an M1A2 Abrams in a Leopard 1A1. Wont work. Their point has chinks true, but is still overall superior to your own.
You need an actually good machine for that. Try a Leopard 2.

Well actually I don't have the first turn in such things, they do. They use their defensive move to try to avoid damage to their weakpoints, my turn is next and I have to expose and than destroy those weakpoints. If I can't than they get their shots at my armour. Who ever gets the armour off first wins, as long as I can knock it off immediately my own armour rating doesn't matter.

Throw modding in. And Backwards Compatibility. For all consoles. Then you have me. True, an inferior option to having it be a PC (one device > two devices), but better then what we have now. An almost perfect scenario. I like it.

And you get it so its all good than, nice.

Was I the one that gave you that 90% figure? Nope. Then dont use that against me.
All I know is, some of the reasons I loved some of my favourite games so much, could not have been done without technology.

No you weren't, I know full well who did and supported it full heartily. I used it not as an attack on you, but just because with you having knowledge of that business it'd be easier to get the point across by mentioning it.

That is elitist as fuck. Let me be blunt here as well:
Perhaps Japanese light novels should be your hobby.

But otherwise, the last thing (CGI and robotics) shows a complete lack of understanding some parts of Video Games and the video game community.

Well actually I indulge in as many flavours as I am able, though yes Japanese light novels can be very nice.
Thing is you gave me nothing outside "graphic whores" or whatever so what am I suppose to say to that. No interests, or preferences were given beyond that...without additional information I can only take it as someone really likes graphics...than surely making or watching a CGI movie or something or that nature would indeed be good suggestions to those with that single interest.

Not everyone has to be like you, you know?

Well with the advent of those games where no gameplay is present, and the story consists of "make up your own meanings of what these background things mean"... I suppose you can do a game with merely graphics (and thus they'd be the most important thing by default), heck they often enough aren't even good... but that is a very small amount of titles.

No I don't, never mentioned anything of the sort. Exclusives are okay if there's actual legitimate reasons for it not just "We're keeping this an exclusive so you have to buy our platform and pay for our services".

And why isn't that a legitimate reason? You think if they didn't need to make them for those purposes they'd still make them?

I don't think it's a particularly good example. You can port anything from one system to another but it's a question of what sacrifices need to be made to do so.

Its good evidence you can essentially port anything. The ports whatever some people make of them our still an experience, and shouldn't be mocked as people still get enjoyment from them.

Using Path of Exile again, we've got 5 flasks, 8 skills and bunch of extra functions. It ends up being 19 different keys for standard gameplay along with another 10 for the different menus. It ends up being a logistical nightmare to not only get it to work, but to make it comfortable to use.

If you go that far, is there any point for it being a console anymore? It would literally be just a PC with fixed hardware and a closed off OS. At that point, why not just make it a standard PC?

You can make anything work...game.com, game.com, game.com...I'm sorry about that.

There would be the point that it'd be where the money is made, so yes. You wanted a unified platform, and in the scenario I gave you one...why all the quibbles?

If you classify games as art, then mods of all forms should be considered as such as well. It's derivative work but they're still putting in the work coding, drawing, modeling etc to make it happen. It's not fair on them to just go around calling it vandalism, especially when they've created entire genres and some of the most popular (and highly rated) games ever made.

They want to produce art than they can make it themselves instead of "leaching" off someone else.

if what your trying to prove is that 10 yeart old market data is somehow still relevant then you failed to prove that utterly with the PS3-360 comparison considering PPS3 outsold 360 when market changed.

Yes, it would have sold worse if it was merely priced higher. if it however had appropriate power for that 600 dollars it would be a very different story, one neither of us know the answer to.

The PS3 didn't sell because people suddenly decided paying 599 was acceptable, it changed because the PS3 was brought in line with the acceptable price of its competitor...that and it annihilated its competitor in regards to exclusives (something you actually want to strip from consoles...when they've proven so effective).

The Vita sold at the same price as the 3DS with far more juice in it...look at it. We aren't in the age of Jaguar as I keep telling you.

well, actually....the military did. but they were building a supercomputer and not gaming.

You know what I was referring to so that is a waste of time.

you already did this before and your still wrong. legally you need to own a copy of the game. you dont need to own the original device to play it, you can use any device you want to play your legal copy.

No there is a specific reason they tell you to take the BIOS of your own purchased console, because otherwise its illegal.

Ok that caught me offguard. did you just use the "modding ruins games" argument? i didnt expect to read such stupidity on escapist. come on your better than this.

It was just you. The actual game is still intact, never said otherwise...however to take minor mods by folk many proclaim to be "better" as they don't have to worry about deadlines, budgets, and other matters? Yeah I take issue with that.

 

[Strazdas]

No there is a specific reason they tell you to take the BIOS of your own purchased console, because otherwise its illegal.

This is FALSE. please stop telling this lie. You have every legal right to play your game in any way you want and they cannot do anything about it legally. There is no law that claims this is illegal.

 

[black_knight1337]

And why isn't that a legitimate reason? You think if they didn't need to make them for those purposes they'd still make them?

Because it's an anti-consumer practice? I guess you'd also think there's nothing wrong with chopping up games to push DLC.

Its good evidence you can essentially port anything. The ports whatever some people make of them our still an experience, and shouldn't be mocked as people still get enjoyment from them.

You can make anything work...game.com, game.com, game.com...I'm sorry about that.

There would be the point that it'd be where the money is made, so yes. You wanted a unified platform, and in the scenario I gave you one...why all the quibbles?

Point being that there'd need to be significant sacrifices just to get everything to work and I think that moving to a unified platform should be a step forwards, not a step backwards. That's one of the reasons why PC would be a natural choice, no sacrifices need to be made for things to work.

They want to produce art than they can make it themselves instead of "leaching" off someone else.

I guess we should be calling anything that isn't built from scratch vandalism then because after all, they're just 'leeching' off of someone else's work.

 

[Rozalia1]

This is FALSE. please stop telling this lie. You have every legal right to play your game in any way you want and they cannot do anything about it legally. There is no law that claims this is illegal.

Was it you who asked me on EU law before you'd admit it as illegal as you are based in Europe so any American evidence would be void in counteracting you?...and than gave no response when I materialized it? No I'm pretty sure it was someone else, Charcharo I think... but nevertheless you were part of that thread so you should have seen regardless.
It is illegal, enforcing it is another matter obviously and I have heard the argument that if they can't enforce it than who cares if its illegal. Very...I'm unsure the best word to use to describe that viewpoint. I suppose if a person murders someone else and no one finds out, its all dandy.

Wiki: According to all legal precedents, emulation is legal within the United States. However, unauthorized distribution of copyrighted code remains illegal, according to both country specific copyright and international copyright law under the Berne Convention. Obtaining games through methods not authorized by the developer or publisher is illegal in the United States.

Under United States law, obtaining a dumped copy of the original machine's BIOS is legal under the ruling Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) as fair use as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine.

(I do hope you won't do as Twink has done after seeing "emulation is legal within the United States" proclaim victory as that would be...well blank).

Hey look Nintendo from the time they took loads of people to court to keep that pimp hand strong. There it is in bold... Now the EU bit I'd have to trawl through the EU site as finding specifics of EU law takes longer than I'd like as I didn't save the link for use later I don't think (should have I suppose silly me)...however its really quite pointless as I said originally in that thread. American and Japan being against it? You don't care. The companies being against it? You don't care. EU? You don't care. What you personally think the law is apparently is stronger evidence, and well you can certainly believe that.

Because it's an anti-consumer practice? I guess you'd also think there's nothing wrong with chopping up games to push DLC.

Anti consumer? I'm sorry what? If you're not a customer of theirs why our you expecting the incentives they've got lined up to attain new, and "reward" current customers. You're not the only one to have said that, there is a lot of selfish "me me me" attitudes going round.

As for chopping up games to push DLC...actually no I don't, but these two things don't go together so why you're bringing it up is odd.

Point being that there'd need to be significant sacrifices just to get everything to work and I think that moving to a unified platform should be a step forwards, not a step backwards. That's one of the reasons why PC would be a natural choice, no sacrifices need to be made for things to work.

You think it all works so simple? You think that when those stinky beasts the consoles are gone that it'll be some utopia on PC?
Two ends to all that. One is one that is most disturbing...but I suppose mostly aligns with your view. Which is Steam having a complete monopoly on PC (lets not talk how it is currently, how much they dominate can be argued but its irrelevant so please do not go into that). Steam sales, Gabe, Pcmasterace, "good guys", yadda yadda yadda, they won't betray us blah blah blah. You think reality is so nice and happy? Monopolies especially ones on what would be a singular platform (if we ignore Mac, mobile, handhelds, and the rest anyway as no one ever seems to consider them) leads to...well I don't need to spell it out.
However is the other end better? Major players develop, everyone is on PC...the next step is obvious. Look here in Britain in energy...transport, and others to see how that works out.

They aren't your friends, their empowerment only means bad things for you make no mistake about that. Consoles do not in anyway affect your PC experience. The developers decide how they make their games, not the big three (though the big three won't allow certain things, but that is no different than anyone else). You miss out on some exclusive games never made for you, big deal. Solving that problem is simple.

Always there is talk about how positive competition is, yet always wanting consoles gone, its all very odd. Consoles if anything help PC gaming, and yet its all the warriors harp on about.

I guess we should be calling anything that isn't built from scratch vandalism then because after all, they're just 'leeching' off of someone else's work.

You know full well what was meant.

I am a part of the community, yet have not heard of these clowns. Seem like a strange group.

Just saying what I see in the majority when it comes up here, nothing more.

Yes. You are correct now. Not as correct as mobile killing handhelds in time, but still, correct.

Well than I suppose I'll take that as hopefully that means I won't be challenged next time I state games (as in certain games not every single game ever so there is no misunderstanding) wouldn't be created without the platform holders.

Doesnt matter. Your "opinion" on the matter threw me into a shock and killed all the humanity in me.

Well I didn't claim what you said I did.

This had nothing to do on your joke with FPSes... I had forgotten about that. It had more to do with your example on mods opening a fair attack on JRPGs.

That is not my claim. That is yours. Or at least the only way I can understand your claim. If mods =/= art, then gaming =/= art. That is how simple I see it.

If you see games as toys that is fine with me mate. I do disagree though.
Ohh and your PC comparison STILL DOES NOT work. My PC is a work PC... and a game machine. It would have to only be a game machine for that.

??? In the second post mentioning that (after you responded to the first) I used fighters and RPGs as examples too. I don't see what attack you think I made open when I did "did it myself". You can't say well "JRPGs are like playing barbie dressup" and expect to have soundly beaten me...I said that already myself.

Mods are using others work, some more than others but it stands. Now recycling of assets happen in the industry too yes, but them using them is more...legitimate to me.

Nope, I said that to go in counter to your mentioning of toys. I don't bloody believe games to all be mere toys, I've said the opposite of that repeatedly. Its very simple, you hold on to your toy statement than I can say in counter to that than all gaming is toys. You playing on the PC in a fighter is you bashing two dolls together, the plaything of a child.
There is of course more than that but I'm repeating myself enough as it is and you clearly didn't understand it when I said more before, so I'll be more direct...which likely means you'll take issue with some of the quick turns I've made to be to the point.

Truth be told, the Royal Ordnance 105 L7 cant penetrate an Abrams's armor from the front. Only side shots with Sabot rounds?
The M1A1 can penetrate you everywhere.
I suggest a Leopard 2A7 for this battle.

As I said my armour is irrelevant when I one shot with a truth bullet to the enemy weakpoints. I have as many know a high rate of fire too so if it comes down to a Bullet Time Battle I'll come out on top.

Graphic whore brings several connotations with itself. I did not believe I have to get such a point across?

What is that than? There a genre that is synonymous with "graphic whores"? ...Shooters? Are all "graphic whores" big shooter fans? Is that it?

I thought story and characters was all that mattered to you...

Incorrect. I've never left out the gameplay, I've always said the shrubbery can aid the gameplay but its relative importance to the whole package is not as vital as everything else. I've repeated myself hundreds of times now, there really shouldn't be a misconception on this.

We never said people should mock them. Where, WHERE did we say that? For God's sake I SPECIFICALLY said that they are legitimate games.
JUST NOT ports. NOT THE SAME GAME. Get it now? A different game.

Not a post towards you and that was a different matter entirely which I wasn't even referring to.

They ARE MAKING it themselves... their own models, textures, voice acting... you ... what other languages do you speak? Maybe I can better explain it then?

If its completely original than you can sell it no issue, and in that respect I'd give them a thumbs up no problem. What is the percentage of mods that are paid products? I'm expecting a high figure if you've got so much swagger you've been offering to explain it all to me in different languages.

Then say it. I have no idea what you are referring to. Military was on my mind as well.

Not to you again, and military was on your mind? We (not you and me, me and someone else) were talking customers, as in normal folk...and military comes up. Were the military buying games for all those PS3s they got? Its not relevant.
The point of it all was the high price point meant the PS3 did not sell with the public particularly well, bringing up the military is irrelevant.

Better is better. One that does not worry about budget, also does not HAVE a budget. At all.
"minor" mods... the arrogance... some of those things are more ambitious and bigger then most games in existence...

On the other hand it is good you finally (in a roundabout way) agree that 4A and GSC are superior to almost every other developer.

Lets not kid ourselves here. The fine people who work at companies that develop games do not have unlimited time, or money to develop their game. Your disrespect by propping up these others who don't instead be a bit more creative and make their own game instead piggybacking.

 

[black_knight1337]

Anti consumer? I'm sorry what? If you're not a customer of theirs why our you expecting the incentives they've got lined up to attain new, and "reward" current customers. You're not the only one to have said that, there is a lot of selfish "me me me" attitudes going round.

Sure, it's selfish to want all games to be playable by everyone where technically possible. And it's pretty much the definition of it, putting profits above all else.

As for chopping up games to push DLC...actually no I don't, but these two things don't go together so why you're bringing it up is odd.

Oh but they do. Both of them are restrictions being forced onto consumers for no reason other than to make more money. If you support one then surely you should support the other.

You think it all works so simple? You think that when those stinky beasts the consoles are gone that it'll be some utopia on PC?

In that case, it does. Gaining extra capabilities isn't going to force sacrifices to the game. Simple as that really.

Two ends to all that. One is one that is most disturbing...but I suppose mostly aligns with your view. Which is Steam having a complete monopoly on PC (lets not talk how it is currently, how much they dominate can be argued but its irrelevant so please do not go into that). Steam sales, Gabe, Pcmasterace, "good guys", yadda yadda yadda, they won't betray us blah blah blah. You think reality is so nice and happy? Monopolies especially ones on what would be a singular platform (if we ignore Mac, mobile, handhelds, and the rest anyway as no one ever seems to consider them) leads to...well I don't need to spell it out.
However is the other end better? Major players develop, everyone is on PC...the next step is obvious. Look here in Britain in energy...transport, and others to see how that works out.

I've never argued for a monopoly situation, nor will I ever and it's not something that is likely ever happen. It's not like other services (ISPs, utilities etc) because the barrier to entry isn't all that high. Itch.io [http://itch.io/] is a good example of that. Just one guy running it at a loss, supporting it with his job as a programmer.

And you'll have to point out the issues with that in Britain. I get that there's a decent number of providers but how is that causing an issue? Theoretically it should push providers to be more and more consumer friendly. There's a decent amount of competition on PC currently for buying games and that's only been providing good things for consumers.

You miss out on some exclusive games never made for you, big deal. Solving that problem is simple.

Sure, it's simple. You just need to be willing to spend, potentially, over $1k just for a single game.

Consoles if anything help PC gaming

Feel free to name some ways they do.

You know full well what was meant.

Clearly I don't. You state your views on modding as being all inclusive, even when presented examples which use the base game as little more than an engine. How is their work any less valid than anyone elses?

And to take it in another direction, what about artists? What makes the work of someone who designs a set of armour, creates all the parts necessary for it from scratch (modelling, texturing etc) and then puts it into an existing game any less valid than someone who does the same but as a part of a larger team? I can't see how it's anything but hypocritical to call one art and the other vandalism.

 

[Strazdas]

Was it you who asked me on EU law before you'd admit it as illegal as you are based in Europe so any American evidence would be void in counteracting you?...and than gave no response when I materialized it? No I'm pretty sure it was someone else, Charcharo I think... but nevertheless you were part of that thread so you should have seen regardless.
It is illegal, enforcing it is another matter obviously and I have heard the argument that if they can't enforce it than who cares if its illegal. Very...I'm unsure the best word to use to describe that viewpoint. I suppose if a person murders someone else and no one finds out, its all dandy.

Wiki: According to all legal precedents, emulation is legal within the United States. However, unauthorized distribution of copyrighted code remains illegal, according to both country specific copyright and international copyright law under the Berne Convention. Obtaining games through methods not authorized by the developer or publisher is illegal in the United States.

Under United States law, obtaining a dumped copy of the original machine's BIOS is legal under the ruling Lewis Galoob Toys, Inc. v. Nintendo of America, Inc., 964 F.2d 965 (9th Cir. 1992) as fair use as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine.

(I do hope you won't do as Twink has done after seeing "emulation is legal within the United States" proclaim victory as that would be...well blank).

Hey look Nintendo from the time they took loads of people to court to keep that pimp hand strong. There it is in bold... Now the EU bit I'd have to trawl through the EU site as finding specifics of EU law takes longer than I'd like as I didn't save the link for use later I don't think (should have I suppose silly me)...however its really quite pointless as I said originally in that thread. American and Japan being against it? You don't care. The companies being against it? You don't care. EU? You don't care. What you personally think the law is apparently is stronger evidence, and well you can certainly believe that.

If it was me i dont remmeber it, and i do remember you proving Charcaro wrong about emulation legality so it likely was him.

That however was different discussion and i never claimed pirating emulated games were legal. what i claimed was that emulating your legally bought games was legal even if you did not own the machine it was originally designed to run on.

The first paragraph of your "wiki as source" says that obtaining games through methods that are illegal is illegal. well duh. however in our discussion i already have a game legally obtained.

The second paragraph talks about obtaining a dumped copy of machines BIOS, which is illegal if you dont own the machine. however a dumped copy of machine BIOS is not needed for emulation of your game, and thus is irrelevant for this discussion.

And yes, as you correctly note EU law is different from US and offers more rights to users than US law.

Also can you provide source for Nintendo taking people to court for emulating their legal copies? because i do not know of any such event.

 

[Rozalia1]

Good then. Now play it.

Got to work off a million year sentence.

You claim mods are something negative. That is enough to throw me into the abyss of gaming hell.

Who said anything about that. I've been merely stating that those devs who don't want mods are in their full rights to want that, and in fact should be respected, not attacked like they so often are.

Here is the point where attacking JRPGs is easy.

As I said I'm not seeing it as I already made the example remark already when mentioning dress up. If its girly men, and barely dressed women or something than...I've already made that one, its not new to me.

*looks at CoD, BF, DI, all 3 official STALKER games, Portal, HL, Left 4 Dead, CS...*

Nope. It does not stand. Your point has the weight of my grandmother when she talks about video games. None. The one of someone that barely has any idea what a game is (a mod is, in your case). In this case, you are the one with 0 experience and little knowledge about modding.

Problem is, arguing with such a person is impossible until they attain at least SOME knowledge.

I will repeat it again. You are completely and utterly wrong. And if some of those mods are not art or worthy of recognition for what they are, NOTHING IN GAMING is.

A lot of this "you don't know anything", "you're stupid", "You can't explain anything to me, I explain to you because you're clearly an idiot", and so on. Not nice.

Now in regards to recognition. Nope, ain't going to put modders above devs however popular that opinion among certain people is.

OK. Again. A PC is a machine. A console is a toy. A console video game is art. A PC Video Game is art. A good and ambitious mod is art. A JRPG is art. A WRPG is art. A FPS is art.
Games are an art form. And maybe a sport. Definitely entertainment.

- My truthful opinion.

You want to play the toy game than its easy to just have all of gaming as toys, you haven't and can't defeat that.
The sad thing additionally is like many I might well catch you later calling a console "just a pc" as everyone who says what you just did there seems to get caught out on.

Its what I find to be an oddity logically. Gaming isn't a toy, just consoles are which is what seems you're stating. In essence among the gaming is children's toy crowd, all gaming is toys but perhaps that isn't the angle.

If the angle is a PC (what consoles are ultimately) whose primary function is playing games is a toy (which thereby means you're painting gaming as for children at best, toys that can't express anything meaningful at worst) than what of Alienware (and others but Alienware is the big one)? They sell "gaming PCs" who they advertise as such by stating that it is what their PCs primary function is...so why aren't their PCs toys? Because they can do other things? The PS4 to use an example can play music, it has a web browser, it can play movies, it can also do other things yet that doesn't seem to come into it when it comes to you...so why aren't alienware PCs toys?

What of phones? Tablets? And so on... This statement by you, with the attached "gaming is art" opinion you like to add really only shows it as being a result of one thing. The platform wars.
No different than the ever so detestable, "I'm hardcore because PC" definitions that get spread about. Now you'll counter with ownership of X console or whatever but to take part in the platform wars you don't strictly have to own a single platform, you merely need to hold on to the mindset of a single platform holder...which considering the statements you've made you still do.

Tanks fire shells mate. Not bullets. Except their machine guns. Truth shells still need a high velocity gun, though maybe they are a chemical round?
If so, then you need a smoothbore gun for optimal effect here.

MIND bullets.

Will you ever concede defeat or at least a valid point against you, or are you absolutely perfect and always right?

I've done before but I don't see why I should concede a point to you when that was towards someone else and you've completely misunderstood it.

Why must everything be sold for it to get recognition in your inexperienced eyes?
They dont own universe or IP rights. That is why. Simple as that. If you are inferring to work or quality standards, then that is not the problem.

Inexperienced, well that one is new. So they don't have universe or IP rights (I knew this of course, I ask a lot of questions I know the answer to) huh...well than it isn't a full fledged title now is it. It can be claimed to be a game yes that is true, but a full fledged original title? Nope.

You disrespect modders too. I dont really respect companies with millions of dollars (wasted on PR and VA) and huge teams. At least, not more then modders.
Creativity... pff... you really know nothing on mods.

Says it all really. A company can make a perfectly serviceable game, and you'll than respect a modder who adds some extra textures in more than them. What were to happen if the company didn't make the game? Modder going to craft that game all by themselves?
Oh I'm somewhat aware of some examples, and good on those guys...but even among their minority, they are a minority and what they make would never have compared to what would have existed if the game was made.

Sure, it's selfish to want all games to be playable by everyone where technically possible. And it's pretty much the definition of it, putting profits above all else.

Lets use an example shall we. The WWE produces weekly shows they show on TV for free (well its paid by certain things but we're not getting into that), those shows are Raw and Smackdown primarily (there is more but for the sake of simplicity lets forget them).
They also produce PPVs which you need to pay for.

Oh but how unfair. I watch their weekly show, why shouldn't I watch the PPVs too? What big meanieheads. (That would be my crude rendition of what you're saying amounts to).
The weekly shows in this example we can say are the multiplats, stuff you have easy availability to. The PPVs are the exclusives, the titles they produce. The weekly shows may be watched by many, but its the PPVs they want you to buy.

We live in a world of business, not a fairy tale. Hey I know the feeling, my own politics involves having everyone be supported by the government so they could live without being hounded even if they decided to waste their lives away...but even in that world that many would say is crazy I have the good sense to not want to allow it to foreigners. Why? Because its not for them, and you give it to them than you degrade what it all is...and eventually you can't give it anymore as it all collapses.

Oh but they do. Both of them are restrictions being forced onto consumers for no reason other than to make more money. If you support one then surely you should support the other.

What do you have against making money? We aren't talking energy, we ain't talking public transport, we're not talking water, we're not talking food...we're talking games. Yes they make exclusives to make money (actually indirectly but that is always ignored for the more simple approach) but what do you want exactly? For them to make it out of the goodness of their hearts?
Here is a little shock treatment perhaps, but you know those internet darlings so many like? They do it for money too. They prey on their own marks to make money, make no mistake about that.

In that case, it does. Gaining extra capabilities isn't going to force sacrifices to the game. Simple as that really.

Again with the simplicity. First of all many exclusives are only tenable on consoles today so straight away the amount of games will be reduced...but okay you gain some extra...and? You think that'll be it. Valve, EA, Ubisoft, and any other company that raises to the moment will play their cards.

I've never argued for a monopoly situation, nor will I ever and it's not something that is likely ever happen. It's not like other services (ISPs, utilities etc) because the barrier to entry isn't all that high. Itch.io is a good example of that. Just one guy running it at a loss, supporting it with his job as a programmer.

And you'll have to point out the issues with that in Britain. I get that there's a decent number of providers but how is that causing an issue? Theoretically it should push providers to be more and more consumer friendly. There's a decent amount of competition on PC currently for buying games and that's only been providing good things for consumers.

And you think that'll continue? With a than singluar platform they will work harder to provide a better/cheaper service than who? The than defunct consoles? Nope.

In such circumstances things work one of two ways at the end of the day. Either an overwhelming force that abuses as much as it likes as it knows its dominance is concrete...or a group of companies who know they don't have to actually really compete with themselves directly, keeping everything as high as possible actually makes all of them more money anyway.

If you want an example in gaming than look at consoles themselves. Why doesn't Microsoft slash their rates to get their games cheaper than Sony? Because Sony would than just slash theirs in response. What does that result in? Both making less money. So better to leave it as it is.

Now I'm sure you'll counter with "price setters", and "good guys", "that is impossible", and such...but in a world with a singluar platform...you severely underestimate the influence of companies, and the consequences that brings.

Feel free to name some ways they do.

Competition. Take prices new for example. Already some of the bigger companies have put their new game prices to the amount they ask on consoles...the reason for this? Make more money simply put. Now with the consoles gone you think more won't? Why wouldn't they? Their other money sources are gone so heck they've got a damn good reason to if anything ask for me.
Or to put it more...honestly...you could say it keeps them honest shall we say.

Clearly I don't. You state your views on modding as being all inclusive, even when presented examples which use the base game as little more than an engine. How is their work any less valid than anyone elses?

And to take it in another direction, what about artists? What makes the work of someone who designs a set of armour, creates all the parts necessary for it from scratch (modelling, texturing etc) and then puts it into an existing game any less valid than someone who does the same but as a part of a larger team? I can't see how it's anything but hypocritical to call one art and the other vandalism.

Games aren't works by a singular man ultimately. Even those claimed to be often had others provide work on it.

what i claimed was that emulating your legally bought games was legal even if you did not own the machine it was originally designed to run on.

It says right there "as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine". If you got yourself the machine, and you get the BIOS off it onto your PC than legally you can use that BIOS in your emulator. Picking up a BIOS off the internet and using it instead isn't legal. This is why I can say most people who emulate are doing so illegally. One of their first justifications is the fact the console is old and expensive (thereby revealing they don't have an original copy of the machine to get the BIOS off of).

however a dumped copy of machine BIOS is not needed for emulation of your game, and thus is irrelevant for this discussion

In a few cases, but the PS2 (likely the most common, but don't quote me on that as it might well be the S/NES) does. Now in regards to if its legal than if you don't need a BIOS...well specifics like that are a lot harder to give definitive on but its likely correct in saying it is... but there is still the question of the games.
You know how to play NES cartridges on your PC? Perhaps we both do, but does the vast majority? Please don't play the deluding game and try to claim they do.

Also can you provide source for Nintendo taking people to court for emulating their legal copies? because i do not know of any such event.

Its something I remember off hand being mentioned from that time period as Nintendo took a lot of people to court to keep their monopoly as safe as possible. I suppose a modern case would be the flashcards cases which Nintendo have got banned in most places (the rest I assume being places they didn't care to push the issue). I'm aware yes that France ruled against Nintendo in that (trust me that is commonly mentioned), but Nintendo successfully appealed.

 

[Strazdas]

It says right there "as long as the user obtained a legally purchased copy of the machine". If you got yourself the machine, and you get the BIOS off it onto your PC than legally you can use that BIOS in your emulator. Picking up a BIOS off the internet and using it instead isn't legal. This is why I can say most people who emulate are doing so illegally. One of their first justifications is the fact the console is old and expensive (thereby revealing they don't have an original copy of the machine to get the BIOS off of).

do you really have problems reading even what you yourself quote? It is illegal to obtain a dumped copy of BIOS if you dont own the machine, which is not related to emulation of games as they do not requite dimped copy of BIOS to run because emulation engines are built from ground up.

Its like saying using Dosbox for old games is illegal because you dont own a DOS computer when dosbox uses dos OS functions but isnt actually a BIOS copy.

You know how to play NES cartridges on your PC? Perhaps we both do, but does the vast majority? Please don't play the deluding game and try to claim they do.

You can rip NES cartridges into digital files. You can also download a copy of said files easily. If you own the original cartridge, this is perfectly legal to do.

 

[Rozalia1]

do you really have problems reading even what you yourself quote? It is illegal to obtain a dumped copy of BIOS if you dont own the machine, which is not related to emulation of games as they do not requite dimped copy of BIOS to run because emulation engines are built from ground up.

Its like saying using Dosbox for old games is illegal because you dont own a DOS computer when dosbox uses dos OS functions but isnt actually a BIOS copy.

What are you on about? I have answered that already in the bloody same post you've quoted. Please don't be so rude as to tell me I can't read when you've clearly not read what I wrote, because if you had you wouldn't have made the statement you just did.
I feel I'm now coming of rude to people due to saying that, and that is annoying as even my nice response to your statement practically calling me an idiot comes off bad.

In a few cases, but the PS2 (likely the most common, but don't quote me on that as it might well be the S/NES) does. Now in regards to if its legal than if you don't need a BIOS...well specifics like that are a lot harder to give definitive on but its likely correct in saying it is... but there is still the question of the games.

Show me the evidence of the PS2 emulator/s not needing the BIOS and whatever I'll look into it...if not than what is your point. That emulation programs themselves aren't illegal? Six months roughly ago you brought that up with me, and I told you I had never said that and you merely misunderstand as admittedly I wasn't as clear as I should have been in that first particular statement...and since than you have brought it back constantly which gets the same response every time.

But that isn't isn't what I'm irritated at, people misunderstand all the time. Its the insults on your part towards me that get very irritating when you're working based off misunderstandings.

You can rip NES cartridges into digital files. You can also download a copy of said files easily. If you own the original cartridge, this is perfectly legal to do.

Misconception. Just like that other statement of "well if I owned it at some point I can access it whenever even though I no longer own the item".

You can if you make it available to yourself to download it yes. Say you get it on your computer, a legitimate file that is yours and you can legally play... in essence it would be perfectly fine for you to say download it to your Laptop over your network, or some form of site/program that would make it available to you to transfer it.

If you're doing that than its perfectly fine, but even if you own the game...its not legal to download essentially a pirated copy of it. Its like shall we say...if I brought lets see...Rome Total War, its irrelevant what the example is. Than pirated it when getting it on the Laptop, and remarking that its perfectly fine as I own a copy...no. You are still committing the act, you're not excused.

 

[Rozalia1]

Should have refreshed before posting. Apologies.

Huh ? Did not get that.
Too much work?

Game reference.

They do have a right, obviously. Does NOT mean I cant criticize them for it. Does not mean I cant take it as an objective fault and something bad for their game (it is, unless they plan yearly sequels).
And if they use BS excuses (modders wont understand our game engine wah wah wah) they deserve shouting. No threats, just a clear indication shit is shit and wont be tolerated.

And how about "I want the experience to be the same across all platforms"? That is a big one.

You really dont see it? Lets just say it is bad and I rather not be a complete asshole.

Well you can always private message me it.

You are the one in an inferior knowledge position here. It would be like me arguing JRPGs with you. You are more knowledgeable. That is a fact.
Your experience with modding is non-existent. You still even use comparisons with "nude" mods and the like in an unfair way to undermine what I am saying, despite supposedly acknowledging not all mods are like that.

Not nice, true. I am not calling you stupid or an idiot though. Calling your opinion that. You are just not knowledgeable here.

Really, the "nude" mod bit still gets you even with the added acknowledgement that mods are more than just that. Your little remarks have been calling me an idiot, perhaps you don't realize I don't know. I mean you did say to me thats its you who should explain something so simple as Control+F to me...how am I suppose to take that exactly?

So, Infinity Ward, that cant code their way out of a wet paper bag, are more competent then Dezowave's team? Ok... I guess the world is full of surprises.

You should recognise that just because someone works for a company you don't like that means they are incompetent, unworthy of respect. They work hard, likely as hard anyone else...perhaps even more so. They have deadlines to reach, I mean we always hear about the yearly the titles.

You are just trying to change what I am saying because you cant accept that PCs are not toys?

A console would be just a PC... if it had an actual OS. It could do the job just fine. It is PC hardware and architecture.

So instead of answering the question you're trying to throw platform wars back at me? Doesn't work.
Answer my gaming PC statement and that I connected to it, or I'll be accepting your concession. If you didn't see it as I actually added it in shortly after posting than apologies, and here it is again.

Its what I find to be an oddity logically. Gaming isn't a toy, just consoles are which is what seems you're stating. In essence among the gaming is children's toy crowd, all gaming is toys but perhaps that isn't the angle.

If the angle is a PC (what consoles are ultimately) whose primary function is playing games is a toy (which thereby means you're painting gaming as for children at best, toys that can't express anything meaningful at worst) than what of Alienware (and others but Alienware is the big one)? They sell "gaming PCs" who they advertise as such by stating that it is what their PCs primary function is...so why aren't their PCs toys? Because they can do other things? The PS4 to use an example can play music, it has a web browser, it can play movies, it can also do other things yet that doesn't seem to come into it when it comes to you...so why aren't alienware PCs toys?

What of phones? Tablets? And so on... This statement by you, with the attached "gaming is art" opinion you like to add really only shows it as being a result of one thing. The platform wars.
No different than the ever so detestable, "I'm hardcore because PC" definitions that get spread about. Now you'll counter with ownership of X console or whatever but to take part in the platform wars you don't strictly have to own a single platform, you merely need to hold on to the mindset of a single platform holder...which considering the statements you've made you still do.

Mind shells you mean?

Nope, MIND bullets.

it is not.

Perhaps looking at it, its likely not. Not a good thing.

Good. What if they have rights? *Lost Alpha*
Or recieve them later? *Minerva*

And how does that invalidate my point of modding being good for gaming, the community of a game and that some mods are downright amazing?

Well if they officially become part of the series than logically what can I say against it, sell it than I suppose.

Wow, wow now. You're taking this too far now. "Good for gaming" never featured in any of this, though that would explain your...ferocity we shall we say.

Your black and white binary world amuses me greatly.

About you.

Look you can't connect two things not connected like that, its dishonest.

Again you talk utter Bull. Stop that.

Yes, I will respect a modder that takes their engine and makes a new campaign from it. Or an entirely new game.

I question why you've been arguing me if this is all its about.

The mod wont exist. What would happen if there were no computers? Console games wont exist. Not really a factor into the discussion.

Don't see what console games have to do it... perhaps you think that a good jab? I'm unsure.
So again, what than is more important...the game...or the mod.

Lost Alpha had 300 000 downloads in 24 hours. Good minority we are. Just like every game out there compared to LoL or WoT .

Talking about the good modders who make large "titles" being a minority among modders, which they are...unless you're going to claim to me that the majority of modders create full fledged full original titles.

 

[Strazdas]

What are you on about? I have answered that already in the bloody same post you've quoted. Please don't be so rude as to tell me I can't read when you've clearly not read what I wrote, because if you had you wouldn't have made the statement you just did.
I feel I'm now coming of rude to people due to saying that, and that is annoying as even my nice response to your statement practically calling me an idiot comes off bad.

Im on about you not being able to understand the sources you yourself quote even after i pointed out how they are not related to what we are discussing.

I did not call you an idiot. However you repeatedly demonstrated your ability to, intentionaly or not, not understand what im writing.


PCSX2 is not the only emulator around you know.

Misconception. Just like that other statement of "well if I owned it at some point I can access it whenever even though I no longer own the item".

False equivalence fallacy wont help you there. If i own the item i can backup or download as many copies of it as i want, legally, in any format i want. They even have a special tax for these copies which supposedly go back to authors based on their popularity in public media (radio, TV, ect). The tax is applied to all empty storage devices (dvds, hard drives, USB drives, ect). they call it the backup tax.

If you're doing that than its perfectly fine, but even if you own the game...its not legal to download essentially a pirated copy of it. Its like shall we say...if I brought lets see...Rome Total War, its irrelevant what the example is. Than pirated it when getting it on the Laptop, and remarking that its perfectly fine as I own a copy...no. You are still committing the act, you're not excused.

If you own a legal copy of Rome Total War (great game btw) then yes it is perfectly legal for you to download a copy of it (note that it is illegal to circumvent DRM which cracks do) provided that you own a legal copy of that game. for your own usage of course. Sharing it to others is a whole different matter.

 

[Rozalia1]

Im on about you not being able to understand the sources you yourself quote even after i pointed out how they are not related to what we are discussing.

I did not call you an idiot. However you repeatedly demonstrated your ability to, intentionaly or not, not understand what im writing.

PCSX2 is not the only emulator around you know.

What did I reference? The PS2. Did I say all required a BIOS? No. I said there are cases where they don't. So where, where I ask is this error occurring.

Is there some other PS2 one that doesn't require the BIOS? Is that your point?

False equivalence fallacy wont help you there. If i own the item i can backup or download as many copies of it as i want, legally, in any format i want. They even have a special tax for these copies which supposedly go back to authors based on their popularity in public media (radio, TV, ect). The tax is applied to all empty storage devices (dvds, hard drives, USB drives, ect). they call it the backup tax.

Please don't play the fallacy game here, I have the good grace to not throw that buzzword at you so don't do it return please. Otherwise it swallows up the conversation. I did not simply say that, there was more to the post.

Anyway that specifically I don't remember all the details on but I don't need to considering what we're talking about. I was referring to having a copy, selling it, and than pirating it later with that as justification. So whatever the case, what you're saying doesn't feature. Its not your copy you are getting.

If you own a legal copy of Rome Total War (great game btw) then yes it is perfectly legal for you to download a copy of it (note that it is illegal to circumvent DRM which cracks do) provided that you own a legal copy of that game. for your own usage of course. Sharing it to others is a whole different matter.

I know, prefer Shogun though. I don't get what the rest is exactly...you just said what I did. Its legal for you to download a copy of your copy yes...though if we're going talk that sort of stuff than it can get murky when limited devices and such come up... but the point is, you've not said anything different to what I did as far as I can see. You've got rights to your copy, you don't to someone elses.