Trilligan said:
We are going back and forth with the smaller paragraphs. Almost everything that you replied to me is answered in other parts of my post, if you would look at it as a whole, instead of arguing with individual sentences.
There were some paragraphs where you constructively questioned some of my statements about alternate profitability for creators, but I'm going to skip everything else, where you just went back to a basic, exaggerated " artists need to make a living, if everyone would be a parasite then all artists would die of starvation" scenario.
Trilligan said:
Alterego-X said:
There are studies suggesting that legalized piracy doesn't decrease studio incomes, in countries where it happened, the kind of people who are still buying digital content now when it's easy to pirate are doing it as fans, out of principle, would keep buying anyways just to reward the creators at their own pleasure.
And even ignoring that, if everyone would get used to not paying for raw IP content, there are all the potential alternate revenues. "nothing left" would be a vast overstatement in either case.
Produce the studies, please. I'd like to see them.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114537-File-sharing-Remains-Legal-In-Switzerland
Here is also a more informal one with a writer publishing his e-books for free: http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
Trilligan said:
Also, the fact that some fans are honorable enough to pay for things does not justify the actions of those fans who are not.
Trilligan said:
Yes, some forms of art and entertainment are provided at no direct cost to the end consumer, but those things are still paid for. Piracy, however, does not involve paying for things, by the end consumer or anyone else. You may try to justify it by saying it is a protest of the current pay-for-art system in place, but in the end, were the system different you would still be pirating, because it isn't about the system, it's about getting away with being a parasite.
That sounds like you are saying that even in systems where content distribution is unlimited, the freeloaders are still "pirating", and all the "honorable" fans are paying, for example parasite TV viewers just watch the show, while "honorable fans" buy the content.
I don't need to "justify" the actions of freeloaders, because freeloading is already the norm in many industries, and professions. That's what I tried to point out with all the later analogies. with the bridges, and the game jouralists. Yes, they get paid, but is everyone who doesn't directly coughing up money for their work "dishonourable"?
All the statements about "parasites" and "thiefs" and "selfishness" only make sense as long as you happen to believe that digital media publishing (gaming/music/e-books/movies) is a special snowflake and that it's artists have extra rights to control the result of their work even when it gets impractical and unenforcable, instead of accomodating to the realities of their situation.
Alterego-X said:
Umm, yes, that's what I just said. You brought up that if matter replicators would exist everyone would pirate ponies and Hasbro would go bankrupt, that I countered with proof that even when 3D printers exist, original products are being created by creative people without Hasbro, even now.
Trilligan said:
But you missed the point of the thought experiment. It wasn't about Bronies using 3D printers to make new MLP figures that haven't been officially released. It was about taking advantage of the ability to copy someone else's creativity with zero input on your part.
And the reason why you said that it would be a bad thing, was that Hasbro would go bankrupt, so there would be no new content. I didn't address this specifically, because it doesn't matter. Even if 3D printer pirates would kill Hasbro in the future by stealing their exact models, EVEN NOW there are enough creative types who are already making Hasbro irrelevant. (in fact, bronies are also working on creating full animated MLP:FIM episodes on their own).
This is not a perfect analogy for gaming, because it assumes free work, which I don't count on for the future of gaming, but it's still a good example that sometimes the old publishers are not as needed in the creative process as we think, and the same technology that enables piracy, also gives us the tools to make producing new content easier.
Trilligan said:
[on free-to-hear sermons]
Back to the busker - you're providing the content willingly free of charge. The congregation is not pirating because it is freely offered, and donations are freely given. Also, in this particular case, part of the monetary worth of your speeches is eschewed for another kind of worth - that of religious enlightenment, or whathaveyou. In either case, the social contract involved is agreed on by both parties - which is not the case with piracy.
Careful with that "social contract". If people who expect games to be free are "worthless shits" who feel "entitled" to "screw you over", but church congregations, drivers going throuh a bridge, escapist readers, and TV viewers are just following the social norms, and they are all allowed to expect these things to be given away and workers to earn their profits indirectly, because those systems are traditionally done that way, you are moving this all into the realm of subjective morality.
You know, I'm not the only one who thinks that piracy is morally acceptable. There is also a crowd behind me. There pirate parties in Europe getting elected into parliaments. I'm not sure if that crowd is as big as the one behind you, but if the expectation to charge for copies is a "social contract", and society can't agree on it's morality, then what makes either one right, or wrong?
Again, the only objective line is a legal difference, that in most countries, unrestricted digital copying for personal use, or "piracy", is still illegal. And even that is changing in some Europan countries.
If downloading a torrent of Skyrim is legally allowed here where I am in Hungary, thanks to recent copyright reforms, am I still doing something immoral, even if my country's social contract apparently allows it?