"Unbelievably High" Android Piracy Drives Dev to Free-To-Play

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Oh god, the snipping that awaits me...

*snip*

And if piracy wasn't an option? Would those people have purchased the game, thus keeping the developer afloat? Or would the developer die, and this time blame something else? Again, this indie developer changed their business model to something else, and is now making money. Would it have been any more successful under the old model if piracy wasn't an option? Who knows.

Considering that they released it for free I'm pretty sure they're not making money from their Android sales.

I would guess by them showing "success", I would gather they are making money from it, since that was their intent.

It's possible, but I don't really see anything confirming that they're making any money off of the android market anymore.

Here's a couple of relevant videos for peoples enjoyment:

*snip*

What does that say about piracy?

There are two things I found notable in the second video (sorry, didn't watch much of the first since it was 16 minutes long). First of all both people don't have a copy at the same time if you're lent a book, so there is an actual reason to want your own copy. Secondly most people prefer reading physical books to reading it off of a computer screen. Videogames don't have this option. There is no advantage to having a physical videogame as all of it's content is tied to the software.

Another thing is that he mentioned that his books were being pirated before they were put up for free. The increased sales were shown after HE released them for free for a month instead of someone else releasing them, as such I'm not sure how good of an example that is for the advertising power of piracy.

*snip*

You blame the industry for "Steering us down this path"? I blame the people who pirate the games, as well as the people who say that it's acceptable (not saying you're necessarily part of the second category).

However I will agree with you about not wanting to buy a game when you don't know about the quality. Which is why I think that every game should have a demo so you at least know what you're getting before you buy a game

Pirates are nothing but a form of advertisement. It is "sharing" on a large scale. Do you blame the kids that were sharing Commodore 64 games before the internet? Or sharing that Nintendo game? What if those people did not go on to buy the games from the developers? Are they leeches? Do you blame eBay for allowing second hand sales of games to bypass developers? Or garage sales? Again, who is to say that ever pirate would have been a sale if piracy was not an option? Hell, studies have shown that pirates spend more money on entertainment then your average consumer, so removing pirates from the equation, developers would seem to make less money!

Once again sharing games is different from giving someone a second copy that is exactly the same as the first. You don't own the game, you're just borrowing it which means it's not in your collection, you can't play it whenever you want, and you need to give it back to the owner when you're finished.

And... that second part is flawed logic. Because pirates tend to be larger game enthusiasts (hence the spending more money on games) means that they would actually spend less money on games if they couldn't get them for free? So you're saying that without free games pirates wouldn't even buy them? I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.

I also never said that every pirated game is a lost sale, I'd have to be stupid to assume that every pirated game is even played. However, it would be equally stupid to assume that everyone who pirated the game wouldn't have bought it otherwise. Exactly what percentage it is, I don't think you can argue that piracy doesn't result in loss sales.

Just because it was pirated doesn't mean that they would have paid for it provided piracy was not an option. Piracy does not equal a lost sale. Pirates are not, nor were ever, customers. People who buy your product are your customers. Everyone else is a non issue.

It's not just ease of access. It's also who has the superior product:

The problem is, that it's just turning into a downward spiral, with companies trying to saddle their product with more and more "loss prevention tools" and making more and more people turn to piracy as an option to get away from it.

*snip*

Heh, just wanted to say that I accidentally "reported" you for this instead of hitting "quote". Stupid fat fingers...

"Beating them at their own game" does not mean making your product more intrusive and inconvenient. It means making a superior product that is conveniently available.

Don't worry about the reporting, I'm pretty sure I've done that at least once before, haha.

Fortunately there are loss prevention tools that work, always online games seem to be the best method for that, which is why I'm pretty sure that's what consoles will be gravitating towards in the future. And how can you blame them for it? It's their product, they have every right to want people to have to pay for it to use it.

Also in this situation I don't think that it was a matter of convenience behind most of the illegal downloads. Buying games on Google Play is pretty darn easy, and only takes 30 seconds. The illegal downloads are most likely just going from people being cheap.

What bothers me most about this is that looking at the piracy rate between the Android version and the Apple version I can now see why there aren't nearly as many games released on Android, being easier to pirate on just means that developers probably won't bother making it for that platform.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

*snip*

Simple logic the consumer is always right, this monopolistic one sided cluster fck of a media industry has pretty much made its bed through anti competitive and anti consumer tactics, its no wonder you have a segment of the population that dose not care anymore.

But the part of the population that dose not purchase the media they are told too pirates are part of the consumer spectrum, the trouble is not so much getting them to buy as getting them to spend money.

And the only way to do that is to offer more options like steam(the deep discounts make them very attractive) and Free to play models(while in its infancy still it opens up a new way to get product to the populace).

I completely disagree with the consumer is always right policy. I've seen enough customers completely abuse that "right" by mistreating employees and having completely unrealistic expectations. The problem with piracy is that people are stealing their product (referring to the people releasing the downloads, not the pirates themselves. I think this applies in the sense of stealing someone's idea or work) at little to no expense of their own and releasing a better product, ie: a free one. Which they can afford to do since they're not putting any particular time or effort into it.

It really destroys the business model, and everyone supporting it is guilty of making it into the problem that it is.

When someone steals your product, you don't try and beat them at their own game, you try to make your product more difficult to steal. Which is why DRM and always online games are becoming more and more prevelant.

Your steam argument falls short a bit there. First off, this is a game that was being sold for cheaper than just about every sale on steam will go to and it still got pirated like crazy. So long as it remains that free is better than cheap there will still be a very large population that will go for the former no matter how cheap it is. Remember that humble indie bundle that you could spend whatever you wanted on? It still got pirated at the expense of the developers.

And I disagree with the ideal that one can steal an infinite resource. Sorry the modern age has invalidated that mindset and is disseminating monopolistic dinosaur business models.

The only thing I can agree with is control of the generation of revenue from the distribution of an IP, meaning if it generates no money in that distribution then it can do no harm.

Tho the powers that be are so butt hurt and obsessed to stop distribution (ignoring all user generated content, human rights issues, public rights issues, freedom of speech issues) that they can't focus and go after sites that generate a profit much less revenue off blatant illicit distribution. If they did that torrent sites would be cut down to 1/4th of what they are now.

At least that's how I see things as an unpublished IP creator.

If you're an architect and someone finds all of your designs and planning and gives them to someone saying "Don't worry about paying an architect, here are some designs free of charge". I'm pretty damn sure that architect would be pretty pissed. But apparently that wouldn't be stealing because the architect still has his design and the person who "used" them didn't ask for any money for it? Regardless of whether you're going to consider it stealing I hope that you'll agree that the architect was completely fucked over, and if the company accepts the designs free of charge despite knowing that they were stolen from and architect I'd definitely not think much of the company for doing so.

You do realize copyright was a set amount of time then things fell to public domain? But then that was changed by government for the highest bidder.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

If you're an architect and someone finds all of your designs and planning and gives them to someone saying "Don't worry about paying an architect, here are some designs free of charge". I'm pretty damn sure that architect would be pretty pissed. But apparently that wouldn't be stealing because the architect still has his design and the person who "used" them didn't ask for any money for it? Regardless of whether you're going to consider it stealing I hope that you'll agree that the architect was completely fucked over, and if the company accepts the designs free of charge despite knowing that they were stolen from and architect I'd definitely not think much of the company for doing so.

You do realize copyright was a set amount of time then things fell to public domain? But then that was changed by government for the highest bidder.

And this responds to my post how? Or are you just spewing out all of the information you heard from that Jimquisition video? No one I know who pirate games don't do it in an attempt to wage war against copyright laws. They do it because it's free and easy. I seriously doubt that piracy would stop, or even be affected, if the copyright laws changed and the IP was owned by the creator.

Sure it's companies that own the copyright, but it's those same companies that go on to pay developers to make new games. Regardless of how much of the money goes to the developers, it is in their best interest for those companies to be making profits.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

If you're an architect and someone finds all of your designs and planning and gives them to someone saying "Don't worry about paying an architect, here are some designs free of charge". I'm pretty damn sure that architect would be pretty pissed. But apparently that wouldn't be stealing because the architect still has his design and the person who "used" them didn't ask for any money for it? Regardless of whether you're going to consider it stealing I hope that you'll agree that the architect was completely fucked over, and if the company accepts the designs free of charge despite knowing that they were stolen from and architect I'd definitely not think much of the company for doing so.

You do realize copyright was a set amount of time then things fell to public domain? But then that was changed by government for the highest bidder.

And this responds to my post how? Or are you just spewing out all of the information you heard from that Jimquisition video? No one I know who pirate games don't do it in an attempt to wage war against copyright laws. They do it because it's free and easy. I seriously doubt that piracy would stop, or even be affected, if the copyright laws changed and the IP was owned by the creator.

Sure it's companies that own the copyright, but it's those same companies that go on to pay developers to make new games. Regardless of how much of the money goes to the developers, it is in their best interest for those companies to be making profits.

And all you want to do is ignore the abuse for temporary gain, at least the pirates are not making things worse by paying into the system, even without them the abuse from the top down would be as bad, all in all pirates are a non sequitur, there are to many variables to give the data justice much like supposed IP infringement losses.

It dose not really matter what the pirates anyway as fundamentally information and data is a human right in the modern age. Sure go after illicit profit generators like the pirate bay and er..well... most torrent sites actually LOL

Just leave the public(me) alone dammit *shakes cane*LOL


GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

LOL

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

If you're an architect and someone finds all of your designs and planning and gives them to someone saying "Don't worry about paying an architect, here are some designs free of charge". I'm pretty damn sure that architect would be pretty pissed. But apparently that wouldn't be stealing because the architect still has his design and the person who "used" them didn't ask for any money for it? Regardless of whether you're going to consider it stealing I hope that you'll agree that the architect was completely fucked over, and if the company accepts the designs free of charge despite knowing that they were stolen from and architect I'd definitely not think much of the company for doing so.

You do realize copyright was a set amount of time then things fell to public domain? But then that was changed by government for the highest bidder.

And this responds to my post how? Or are you just spewing out all of the information you heard from that Jimquisition video? No one I know who pirate games don't do it in an attempt to wage war against copyright laws. They do it because it's free and easy. I seriously doubt that piracy would stop, or even be affected, if the copyright laws changed and the IP was owned by the creator.

Sure it's companies that own the copyright, but it's those same companies that go on to pay developers to make new games. Regardless of how much of the money goes to the developers, it is in their best interest for those companies to be making profits.

And all you want to do is ignore the abuse for temporary gain, at least the pirates are not making things worse by paying into the system, even without them the abuse from the top down would be as bad, all in all pirates are a non sequitur, there are to many variables to give the data justice much like supposed IP infringement losses.

It dose not really matter what the pirates anyway as fundamentally information and data is a human right in the modern age. Sure go after illicit profit generators like the pirate bay and er..well... most torrent sites actually LOL

Just leave the public(me) alone dammit *shakes cane*LOL


GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

LOL

Information and data is NOT a human right in the modern age. At least not in most places. There are plenty of restrictions on what information you're allowed to distribute. As far as I know you're still not allowed to share people's credit card information, or distribute nude photos of people without their permission (not to say that it either don't happen). There's plenty of restrictions on the distributing information, and rightfully so.

And who says I'm ignoring the abuse? I could be writing a strongly worded letter to EA at this very minute (although I'm not). My paying for products is at least helping the developers, even if not as much as it could be. And how are the pirates not making things worse? Or do you believe they'd suddenly stop pirating once IP belongs to the developers? You don't solve one problem by making an entirely different one.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

If you're an architect and someone finds all of your designs and planning and gives them to someone saying "Don't worry about paying an architect, here are some designs free of charge". I'm pretty damn sure that architect would be pretty pissed. But apparently that wouldn't be stealing because the architect still has his design and the person who "used" them didn't ask for any money for it? Regardless of whether you're going to consider it stealing I hope that you'll agree that the architect was completely fucked over, and if the company accepts the designs free of charge despite knowing that they were stolen from and architect I'd definitely not think much of the company for doing so.

You do realize copyright was a set amount of time then things fell to public domain? But then that was changed by government for the highest bidder.

And this responds to my post how? Or are you just spewing out all of the information you heard from that Jimquisition video? No one I know who pirate games don't do it in an attempt to wage war against copyright laws. They do it because it's free and easy. I seriously doubt that piracy would stop, or even be affected, if the copyright laws changed and the IP was owned by the creator.

Sure it's companies that own the copyright, but it's those same companies that go on to pay developers to make new games. Regardless of how much of the money goes to the developers, it is in their best interest for those companies to be making profits.

And all you want to do is ignore the abuse for temporary gain, at least the pirates are not making things worse by paying into the system, even without them the abuse from the top down would be as bad, all in all pirates are a non sequitur, there are to many variables to give the data justice much like supposed IP infringement losses.

It dose not really matter what the pirates anyway as fundamentally information and data is a human right in the modern age. Sure go after illicit profit generators like the pirate bay and er..well... most torrent sites actually LOL

Just leave the public(me) alone dammit *shakes cane*LOL


GET OFF MY LAWN!!!!

LOL

Information and data is NOT a human right in the modern age. At least not in most places. There are plenty of restrictions on what information you're allowed to distribute. As far as I know you're still not allowed to share people's credit card information, or distribute nude photos of people without their permission (not to say that it either don't happen). There's plenty of restrictions on the distributing information, and rightfully so.

And who says I'm ignoring the abuse? I could be writing a strongly worded letter to EA at this very minute (although I'm not). My paying for products is at least helping the developers, even if not as much as it could be. And how are the pirates not making things worse? Or do you believe they'd suddenly stop pirating once IP belongs to the developers? You don't solve one problem by making an entirely different one.

Of course it is, media=information, you can't throw the baby out with the bath water(IE someone will find something educational, inspirational or informative) thus why the hunting on the kings land analogy works, as information is nourishment for the human soul.

With that said you have to reasonably protect the profit chain attached to IP to do that you go after revenue generation , as mere distribution alone is a quagmire that only makes lawyers rich.

You may think following revenue generation(and I do mean revenue generation , IE one can not make anything off the distribution of unlicensed goods, and that even means using your reputation to sell your own IPs, no mugs, no swag, no donations, no revenue generation no nothing ) you may think that means nothing but every bit of information sent comes at a cost to the one sharing the file.

So the vast majority of file sharing will be based around fandom as much as people getting their rocks off sharing crap. It still halves the current file sharing industry a few times down to a much more natural size.

 

[Signa]

I read that the game charged $20 in downloadable content, with or without that dollar charge. Seems really shady that they are upset that their paid freemium game wasn't getting that initial gouge.

 

[Major_Tom]

People are not paying for rip-offs of free flash games? I'm shocked.

 

[JesterRaiin]

BTW - i'm too tired to read whole thread now, but did someone say "Google market", pardon, "Google play sucks balls" ?

Contrary to popular belief there are more than one phone and tablet running Android out there. Some of them, despite being capable of running almost every game, are marked as "incompatible". I'm not even talking about commercial stuff - plenty of free, simple apps or games are "incompatible with your device".

With no official way to install such games or apps, where do you turn to ? Google -> *.apk
And presto, there you are, only you, your device and the database of pirated stuff.

There's really nothing more to say than this - Google itself pushes users into the realm of stolen stuff by denying one, f*king button called "INSTALL ANYWAY".

 

[Griffolion]

Game gets pirated by people, blame operating system. Genius.

When someone get's run over, do we blame Ford? When someone get's shot, do we blame Colt?

Anyway, bad analogies aside. A number of issues with this:

1: Let's make a comparison to iOS for a second. iOS, when jailbroken (very easily), gives access to an app store dedicated to pirated apps. Sure, sideloading is available on Android and is a bad thing in some cases, such as this, but welcome to an open OS, genius.

2: The developer gives the vibe as if this is the first time piracy has ever been encountered. Ever heard of a PC, dude?

3: I'm loathe to say this, but game developers seem to be doing this a lot in response to piracy, but where the hell is your server side DRM if you're that bothered about this issue? It just seems the dev is complaining about this thing yet they did not do the single most effective and do-able thing in their power to stop it. I have a couple of games on my Galaxy Nexus that connect to a server to verify it's a legal copy of the game before it plays. I hate it, but it works for the developer.

This guy has a similar view point to me when I was researching the matter. https://plus.google.com/103583939320326217147/posts/WMeAdDaDSGm

Ugh, I hate having to clear up the stink FUD spreaders leave behind them.