Uncharted: The Lost Legacy launch trailer

[hanselthecaretaker]

plus you have to double-tap the button to roll

A lie.

along with their being a bit a lag to Max actually rolling.

A lie.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958970-max-payne-3/62849752

I use crouch all the time now. It works.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958969-max-payne-3/62850378
https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/958970-max-payne-3/62845396
https://steamcommunity.com/app/204100/discussions/0/624076027479940242/

Vanquish is dull.

Anyway, what I like about Max Payne 3 is that I can run and gun, that I'm not forced to look over the shoulder with slow movement all the time, combined with the weight and physics, the sound and attention to detail, but you wouldn't even acknowledge that in previous conversations, so I don't know why I'm even talking to you. You're the most hardheaded person on GT. We've made no more progress than in the other, almost identical discussion.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/663.952546-Vanquish-impressions-Max-Payne-3-Third-person-shooter-mechanics

You said how you were not alone in hating Max Payne 3 and then brought up my thread. Well, plenty of people in the Vanquish thread didn't like Vanquish.

And it just occurred to me as I'm playing more Vanquish... At least Max Payne 3 didn't slow you down with freaking auto-heal.

MP3 is literally the worst game I've ever played, obviously IMO. What do you want me to say that is positive about the game? There isn't much obviously if it's the worst game I ever played. I guess the one thing MP3 does is allowing a run and shoot, but that's really it. You say Vanquish's slide is silly, MP3's roll is silly and completely detached from the weight of Max's other animations. I only went through the 1st page of the Vanquish thread there, but nobody flat out hated Vanquish in that thread while at least 2 other people (besides me) HATED MP3. Don't you think MP3 does things that make people have such extreme reactions to the game?

Really? You're going to criticize Vanquish for the auto slow-mo on low health when MP3's last stand mode is the worst. When I figured out how the health/painkiller system all worked, I started using painkillers to refill my health at about a 3rd of Max's body being red because last stand mode just wastes precious painkillers. Not saying Vanquish's system is perfect or can't be criticized but MP3's last stand is the worst.

I think you're being disingenuously slanderous based on little more than your own personal tastes here. That double tap thing only applies to the button-starved console version, as he rolls-lag-free-with a mere press of the G key default on PC. I've also never had a problem with low cover, or crouching in general as I remember you criticizing in another thread.

I've only played the first three stages so far, but the game has exceptional shooting mechanics, and movement in general is at worst competent within the game's design. My biggest complaints in terms of gameplay so far would be Max being somewhat selective over what he'll vault over, and sprint being almost no different than normal movement speed. The kill cams can be jarring sometimes, but since they only happen on the last enemy in an area, it doesn't hurt anything.

My biggest complaint overall so far would be the cutscenes, which have somewhat atrocious presentation. I know they were going for a certain style, but it's almost like they gave some hipster reject intern a few lines of coke and a bottle of absinthe and said have at it. I would've preferred the simple comic style editing, or at least leave those annoying multi-layered/colored filters out if they want to segue into gameplay. This post on RPS [https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?5160-Argh!-Max-Payne-3-so-much-potential-so-many-schoolboy-errors] pretty much mirrors what I find most displeasing about the game's awkward presentation.

Aside from that, the game is one of the more fun TPS's I've played in a long while. Why? Because I like games where it feels like you're actually controlling a physical being with some presence in the world they occupy, and not some abjectly trivial cardboard cutout bouncing, sliding or otherwise outlandishly traversing the playspace. I won't even comment on comparing it to anything else though; especially not a game like Vanquish which I've never played, but after watching a few minutes of gameplay have no interest in doing so anyways. It's clear you like a different style of gameplay, but that doesn't make other gameplay styles bad.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Still lies. You don't HAVE to. A keyboard is an option. We've talked about this before. I don't give a fuck about the controller option. You're complaining to the wrong person. They could remove the controller option entirely and then you wouldn't have anything to complain about. The ideal input device is available. And at least the game is well mapped for it and highly editable, unlike Vanquish, which doesn't allow you to assign interact/grab and cover to two different keys, resulting in undesired actions. Vanquish doesn't even have shoulder swap. But then, it doesn't matter much, because the levels are so big and empty and boring. I also cannot assign actions to the side buttons of my mouse.

MP3 is literally the worst game I've ever played, obviously IMO.

No, it's not. I don't care if it's your opinion. You're being ridiculous.

-

Disagree. For fucks sake, this guy jumps onto his body completely ignoring the damage it would do to his ribs, the bones in his arms and his spine, he roughly slides down stadium stairs and seats, and I'm supposed to have a problem with the shoulder roll? Give me a break.

-

Yeah, the forced slow-mo during low health in Vanquish is pretty lame.

Last stand has saved me countless time. If you don't like it, play Old School. It removes last stand. Problem solved. The pills are superior to any auto-regen system. Auto-regen is unlimited health. Waiting to heal goes completely against the fast-paced shooter V is supposed to be. It would kill the fun of New York Minute in Max Payne.

I still don't see what is supposed to be so fun about the video you showed me. The guy just slides all over the place as if the stairs are wheelchair ramps, does a few auto-target melees and rolls, goes into cover and fires a homing gun over and over. Big deal.

If I play a game on PS3, I can't use a keyboard. I console game because I don't like using a keyboard, it wasn't designed for gaming. It's the mouse that is the core reason why KB/M is objectively superior to a controller, not the keyboard. And one of those links was from Steam, meaning it was concerning the PC version.

LMAO, you're going to tell me that I'm wrong about what the worst game I ever played is? Seriously?

You're bringing realism into a Platinum game? All of Vanquish's animations are consistent with the quick response animations the game has vs how the roll in MP3 feels out-of-place compared to Max's other movements. Also, bringing realism into MP3 would make it look probably even worse than Vanquish, which at least has the excuse of "it's a fucking power suit".

Maybe if you knew how to properly play Vanquish, you'd see where the fun is. You just posted about how you need to use cover and can't stay out in the open in Vanquish. The guy was playing for speed, not style and even then it looks far more fun than 99.9% of speedruns, which are normally pretty boring like the MP3 one you posted where it's just mainly, "yeah, that guy has good aim." I know you'll get pissed over this but "technically" Vanquish doesn't even have a health system. I'm not the biggest fan of the slow-mo near death in Vanquish but it is better than MP3's last stand. I didn't realize Old School removes last stand nor did I know I would hate it so much either. I didn't like really anything about MP3 so why would I replay it? Also, using the classic MGS ration system would've been 100x better than last stand, auto use painkiller on upon death basically or even use 2 painkillers (wasting one) since it's auto basically.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about, me using the roll to make myself a smaller target while I spin the camera towards the threat: https://youtu.be/Sq1Lq2l4iKo?t=4m25s

It saved me. And here I use the crouch to duck under Mona's fire: https://youtu.be/Sq1Lq2l4iKo?t=4m57s

Every mechanic is useful.

Or you could've used the 180 quick-turn and shoot-dodge, which would've been faster...

I posted several links where people had issues with crouch/prone being unresponsive, even the PC version too.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

It's the combination of mouse AND keyboard that makes them better for shooters. More buttons, quicker movement.

Max Payne 3 is a stylized, over-the-top action game. I'm not even gonna continue this part of the discussion. There's nothing more to say.

I'm playing Vanquish on Hard, actually, and getting through it mostly okay, with a combination of cover and slide.

Shooters don't need many buttons, they are pretty simple overall. It's devs that don't know how to design a proper control scheme as demonstrated by MP3 on consoles.

You brought up like rib damage and shit. You actually think Max would be able to physically roll based on how he moves; it would be like John McClane doing a roll in a Die Hard movie (the good ones). It's as ridiculous as Nick Frost's roll in The World's End.

You should only use cover to jump over it in slow-mo, jump off it, or smoke a cigarette. Vanquish Hard isn't very hard especially with a mouse for aiming. The biggest challenges are the challenge modes and God Hard (which just isn't fun anyways). Boost-dodge FTW.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

It's the combination of mouse AND keyboard that makes them better for shooters. More buttons, quicker movement.

Max Payne 3 is a stylized, over-the-top action game. I'm not even gonna continue this part of the discussion. There's nothing more to say.

I'm playing Vanquish on Hard, actually, and getting through it mostly okay, with a combination of cover and slide.

Shooters don't need many buttons, they are pretty simple overall. It's devs that don't know how to design a proper control scheme as demonstrated by MP3 on consoles.

You brought up like rib damage and shit. You actually think Max would be able to physically roll based on how he moves; it would be like John McClane doing a roll in a Die Hard movie (the good ones). It's as ridiculous as Nick Frost's roll in The World's End.

You should only use cover to jump over it in slow-mo, jump off it, or smoke a cigarette. Vanquish Hard isn't very hard especially with a mouse for aiming. The biggest challenges are the challenge modes and God Hard (which just isn't fun anyways). Boost-dodge FTW.

If it's a good game and has multiple difficulty levels, then it should be especially fun on the higher ones, as that's where the gameplay would truly shine as its design intended. Your comments along with several in this thread [http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=655427] that mirror it suggest this is not the case with Vanquish.

I'm only playing MP3 on Hard now because higher difficulties are still locked, but once I get through this initial run and learn the mechanics well I can easily see how using everything the game gives you will increase my enjoyment higher up. That is the sign of a good game, objectively speaking.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

If it's a good game and has multiple difficulty levels, then it should be especially fun on the higher ones, as that's where the gameplay would truly shine as its design intended. Your comments along with several in this thread [http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=655427] that mirror it suggest this is not the case with Vanquish.

I'm only playing MP3 on Hard now because higher difficulties are still locked, but once I get through this initial run and learn the mechanics well I can easily see how using everything the game gives you will increase my enjoyment higher up. That is the sign of a good game, objectively speaking.

You can take difficulty too far in any game. Uncharted on Crushing isn't fun while not even being difficult all at the same time. Vanquish's Hard mode is the sweet spot. Bayonetta definitely has a better ultimate difficulty in comparison. Vanquish also had separate Challenge maps that are harder than the campaign on Hard while still being very fun; I was never able to beat the final wave of Challenge 6, those damn double bogeys...

I'd still rather play a shooter with a keyboard. The fact that my fingers are already resting on the left and right directional buttons means I can very quickly change directions. I can quick-select my guns without having to completely leave navigation, like in Vanquish. I can perform rolls with Alt in Max Payne and run and go into slow-mo and switch shoulders with Z and crouch with C and grab items and vault and go into cover and shoot dodge and use pills and reload and throw grenades with G and melee with the middle mouse button and drop my gun with mouse button 5 and toggle my attachment with mouse button 4, all without completely leaving navigation or the camera.

Uh, no. Die Hard is realistic compared to Max Payne. Max Payne was always ridiculous. A better comparison is Hard Boiled. The characters do leap through the air in Hard Boiled and John Woo's other movies.

https://youtu.be/JEFrd2mtLrg?t=11m27s

Max Payne seriously is inspired by John Woo's movies. In the original, Max says, "I made like Chow Yun Fat." And there's another part where the bad guys use the name "John Woo" as a password.

There's nothing strange about the roll.

And, you can do reload cancels in Vanquish with a controller. MP3's control scheme is bad designed for controllers, with a proper control scheme, I can most likely do all that on a controller as you can keep going with like every possible action that I don't feel like actually thinking through it all while creating the most efficient controller control scheme at 4am.

Max is far less sluggish in the other games. I would say the shoot-dodge antics and slow-mo "set-pieces" are the only things that make MP3 like a John Woo movie. The roll just looks weird/off to me, I can see younger Max doing it, but not MP3 Max. I wouldn't be surprised if the roll actually takes less frames than how long it takes Max to get up from prone, the roll is just too fast of an animation IMO. The roll looks bad in other Rockstar games too like GTA. Just compare the "Rockstar roll" to Uncharted's roll for example.

 

[dscross]

I've grown weary of Uncharted. The last of us 2 will be a million times better I think.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I've grown weary of Uncharted. The last of us 2 will be a million times better I think.

We'll have to wait and see. Most of the elements are in place; Both Troy Baker and Ashley Johnson return as Joel and Ellie, Neil Druckmann is handling the story, and even Gustavo Santaolalla is the doing the music again. Unfortunately Bruce Straley is sitting this one out as game director, which is a real shame since he's responsable for Naughty Dog's best games.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

On a related note, I uninstalled Metal Gear Rising again, because I honestly don't know how I'm supposed to play that game. I got through Normal mode okay, but fighting the president as Sam is too complicated.

You're pretty hypocritical is saying you don't like Metal Gear Rising because you didn't know how you're supposed to play yet complain that people don't like MP3 because they don't know how to play.

I do know how you're supposed to play MGR. Dodging and parrying is quite simple. I just beat the president as Sam. I made it much harder for myself than it's supposed to be because, after not playing the game a long while, I forgot that you have to equip your recovery items in typical MGS fashion. I was trying to beat him with one energy cell.

Edit: And I just beat Hard mode too. Still overrated. I prefer Sam's moveset. Less stupid, and he can dodge forward.

You said you didn't know how you're supposed to play it, not me. MGR is still in my backlog of games anyways. I was merely pointing out that you "quit" MGR because you didn't know how to play (again, your words) while complaining that others didn't get how to play MP3 and unfairly disliked the game.

 

[hanselthecaretaker]

Not quite a bad game, though. 2/5.

I'd say 2/5 is bad. 3/5 sounds like something that's at least worth one play through. But 2/5 seems like a score for a game that may at least be functional but is just so derivative and void of quality on various fronts it makes the play recoil. 1/5 would be a near-unbearable mess. Maybe that's your baseline definition of bad though.

Actually, now that I think of it like this, 2/5 sounds about right for an unpleasant experience.